A double turn: 14 years later

[CM Steel]

Heading into Summerslam it looks like the roles will be reversed in the main event picture with John Cena vs CM Punk. With Cena being credited as the babyface and Punk being credited as the heel. It looks from the WWE universe perpective it's the other way around right now. So what if at Summerslam during their match up, we see a double turn of the roles of who's who?

Remember 14 years ago at Wrestlemania 13 in Chicago. Where Bret Hart (babyface) took on Stone Cold Steve Austin (heel) in a submission match with Ken Shamrock as the special guess referree. With the roles being switched within the match where in the outcome was that now Bret was the heel and Stone Cold was the new babyface.

Now 14 plus years later, could something like that happen with the likes of John Cena and CM Punk come Summerslam? Hey, maybe Triple H could play the special ref in that one?

But all around in general. Can or could the double turn work in todays world of wrestling like it did back then between Bret Hart and Steve Austin??

MODERATOR'S NOTE:
STAY ON TOPIC! This isn't about Cena/Rock, hating John Cena, etc. Posts which stray from the topic at hand will be DELETED.

 

[#hamler]

It already seems like the WWE is building Punk as a face right now but I see what you're getting at. The problem I have with this is Cena going heel; it seems very unlikely. If Cena does go heel, it would definitely flip the wrestling world upside down. However, I think the main event of Wrestlemania needs to remain the same - a face vs face. Unless you're willing to change him back in time before Wrestlemania, I don't think it needs to happen. I also believe CM Punk should remain where he is. Whether he's a heel or face is somewhat undefined and I like that about him right now.

 

[Ellye]

I don't think Cena would turn heel anytime soon, so I wouldn't hope for him to be booked in a double turn.

A wrestler that could easy take part in one is Randy Orton. He could turn heel during a match easily, I believe. The "problem" is that he would most likely end up as a tweener, as it would be hard for him to not be cheered at this point, even if he gets really heelish.

 

[Headman]

Cena isn't going heel. And as usual half the crowd will cheer for him while the other half cheers on Punk. Cena doesn't even mind getting booed. He laughs it off, and why shouldn't he? His haters do a pretty good job of making themselves seem irrational and immature. Need an example? How about chanting "Fruity pebbles" at a guy while trying to point out how childish his image is? By chanting that you've already made yourself sound like a second grader.

 

[Justin Satiable]

No offence to Rock or Cena, but unless there is some serious shake-up in the build to the match, I honestly couldn't care less about it. Turn Cena heel or find something special to ignite the feud, because the whole back-and-forth fruity pebble shit got old pretty fast for me. I don't expect WWE to drop the ball with this one, but I didn't really see them holding the ball that high in the first place. Austin vs Punk would be infinitely larger than Rock vs Cena if things stay the same as they are right now.

With a good crowd though, I guess, Rock vs Cena could be the next Hogan vs Rock. Interestingly, it'll be a decade after that match first took place at WM 18. Regardless of that fact, Rock can't ride the coattails of his old catchphrases forever, nor can he ride that one singular joke forever. Therefore my hope would be for Cena to turn heel in the buildup to Wrestlemania, preferably later to avoid losing heat, and be put in his place by Rock at 'Mania, whether for the title or not. Cena could then take the time off that he was recently reported as needing.

 

[Brewski007]

How many "Cena should turn heel" posts go up here weekly?

But really, why does he need to be heel when half the crowd boo for him anyway?
Cena creates a divide in the fans , something which is real. Its not like cheering for the good guy and booing for the bad guy because its the norm.
The divide with cena is something deeper, and whether people realise it or not, it ignites passion amongst the fans. Those who cheer him are obviously psyched out for their fave. While those who boo him will boo extra loud every night.
If cena was to turn heel there wouldnt be any drama for the crowd, people would simply boo him and cheer his opponent because he'd be put over as a heel eventually.
And for WM28 against the rock , the WWE want this divided crowd. And the way the crowd was with cena and punk at MITB is exactly how they want it to be for WM28 too.

 

[RockandSock]

I do not see a reason for a double turn because they already turned Punk the same way they turned Austin at KOTR 96 with the birth of 3:16 and everybody started cheering him. As for the Rock/Cena of course they are not going to run the storyline all year that would be boring. Cena moves on with his life and every so often they take shots at each other to refresh us.

 

[whoopin' ass]

assuming they keep Punk's gimmick going as is, Cena and the wwe will be heel by default - the fans are behind Punk so that makes Cena the bad guy but not really. think back to HBK/Hogan. The fans were behind HBK even though he was supposed to be the heel in it all. same here but substitue Punk for HBK and Cena for Hogan.

in regards to Cena turning heel, i don't think it will ever happen in a pg environment. right now, they are aiming for a younger audience and they want clearer faces and heels. for someone like Christian, who is not as high up the ladder as Cena, they can do the flip since they are not likely to lose whole lot of fans over it. For Cena, he is the mega-face, the golden boy of goodness in the wwe. he is like Hogan was back in the 80's. remember the shock when Hogan turned heel and joined the nWo? why the surprise? because no one could imagine him turning heel - it didn't fit the character. same here with Cena. he has been this character for a long time now (`The Marine`was 5 years ago) so there are tons of people who only know this character and don`t remember his original thug gimmick. if he did turn heel, it would have to be the ultimate heel turn and it could cost them a lot of younger fans. in a pg world, i doubt they will pull the trigger on it. if they decide to get a little more adult in their product again, it would probably be one of the first things to happen(could be the thing that launches a new era).

 

[Monkey_Mania]

If and when they decide to turn Cena heel, they shouldn't have it happen so non-chalantly. It needs to be the biggest thing at the time, and it needs to mean something. Turning Cena heel during the match wouldn't have the same kind of impact it would if say he smashed Randall Orton in the head with a title to give Christian a win or something. Plus why does anyone want CM Punk to go full face? He's much better in the role he's in now.

 

[RickD82]

I'd love to see this happen. It would actually work even though Punk wouldnt be a full fledged face, the same thing happened with Austin after WM13. Yes all the fans loved him but he could still get away with doing heelish stuff because of it. Bret was so hated afterwards because he started the whole America bashing thing. Cena could do something similar, not america bashing but something so bad that the fans would hate him so much. When u think about it Cena could be one of the most hated heels ever. Half the crowd already hates him and if he turned on these little kids and mommies it would be a deafening boo when his music hit. The thing that pisses me off though is that this probably wont happen, WWE seems content with shoving Cena down everyones throat for some reason. McMahon doesnt have the balls or the interest in wrestling for this anymore. Another thing that pisses me off is that in '01 Austin was still the biggest fan favorite, still selling the most merch and they still turned him heel at WM17 and alligned him with Vince. I just dont get why they wont pull the trigger with Cena.

 

[mrpops]

Cena has been a heel for the past 5+ years. Everyone over 13 hates the fucking guy too death. We dont need cena to become a "heel". We just need the fucking guy to be entertaining again. Same fucking matches. Same fucking speeches = hate. The guy is boring/stale.

Give us the epic badass rapper cena. He doesnt even have to promote the rapper lifestyle. Just say SOMETHING entertaining on the mic and get the crowd into it. God i remember tuning into smackdown every week to here cena rap. It was always epic/hilarious. Now i dread watching raw because i know its the cena show.

Let him loose and sick burn the rock. Stop with the whole "I love wwe wahhh, im a hard worker, USA marine, love me" bullshit.

Get on the mic and sick burn the fucker. Cena is getting buried by the rock on the mic. We already know Cena is going to win at mania, so why not do something shocking and have him sick burn the rock(for real) and lose to him at mania? That would be fucking epic and make me want to tune in to see the fallout. He can have his fucking re match and win there to help his ego.

 

[willross]

From reading Austin's book, the people didn't really understand it was a heel turn and though Vince turned babyface, which is what I thought at first. And then when they tried to make him a heel it didn't work, even after beating Lita with a chair.

The same thing goes for Cena but for different reasons. The kids are gonna boo him and the IWC/Adult fans may actually end up cheering him cause of his new attitude that people have been waiting for. Even if it doesn't keep the crowd split and its full on boo, they lose millions of dollars in merchandise and regardless of what anyone thinks, wrestling anywhere has ALWAYS been about money and money only.

They need to get Cena to a point where everyone thinks there is no going back (like with Hogan). Imagine of his run as a hardcored face going into the 10 yr mark like Hogan's did? And then BAM!!! Heel turn.

Unfortunately I think the only way to do it is to build an undisputed number 2 babyface and have him beat the shit of the guy for whatever reason or (I can pray) beats the Undertaker at WM and ends the streak in a real shady way.
For example, hit him with 2 or 3 AA's and have Taker kick out. Then Cena snaps and beats him with a chair over and over, then, to add insult to injury, pins him 1,2,3....with just a single foot on Taker's chest? (would that not piss people the f off?)............JUST A THOUGHT!!!

As for double turn, CM Punk is no where near the level Austin was and is already in the grey area while Austin was trying so hard to be a full fledged heel.

 

[Honkey_Kong]

First of all, I wouldn't put it past WWE to turn Cena heel. They made him, they can make somebody else too.

And second, without Cena's dick and fart joke/raps, what would be the point in going back to the rapper gimmick? In the PG era, he'd be stuck as the resident Vanilla Ice.

Do I see the freshness in turning Cena heel? Possibly, but he'd need to do something new. Otherwise, it'd just be stale BS from 6 years ago.

As for CM Punk, isn't he already a face right now? I mean he's been getting the biggest pop. And more than half of the audience is booing Cena. I think the best way to do a double turn here would be not to turn one face and the other one heel, but to redefine what the fans should be cheering for. Encourage them to cheer the bad guy and boo the hero. Let the bad guy win clean reasonably often. Etc etc.

 

[RicoLen]

Cena will turn heel sooner or later, but they're gonna make us drool for it first. They're certainly laying a lot of groundwork lately with the feud with both Rock & Punk and him effectively being the heel. It's really looking more and more and more like a "Die Rocky Die" kind of situation brewing.

But when Cena goes heel... dude, it's gonna be bash at the beach '96 all over again, minus all the trash in the ring. I don't care how it happens, or even when it happens. This guy has been the face of the company from 2005-2011, that's 6 years. Hogan was the face of wrestling as a whole starting in 1984 with the birth of Hulkamania until 1996 when not only did he turn heel, but pro-wrestling got a new face to replace him in the form of Steve Austin. That's 12 years total, and only 9 in the WWF, and his last year he was gone from wrestlemania until the following wrestlemania, so really only 8 years.

Cena needs to stay a face longer, be loved by the kids longer, until there are many adults out there that can say "I grew up watching and loving John Cena" and THEN he can turn heel.

 

[Pedigree1]

Totally loving this point!!! Punk as the heel everyone loves him he makes good points straightforward and is just a badass who doesnt kiss ass!! Cena is the face who is seen as an ultimate ass kisser but at the same time has the support of kiddies everywhere,also will defend the title anywhere anytime. This totally reminds me of WM13. The Roles definitely will be reversed

 

[Sheamus' Suntan]

From reading Austin's book, the people didn't really understand it was a heel turn and though Vince turned babyface, which is what I thought at first. And then when they tried to make him a heel it didn't work, even after beating Lita with a chair.

The same thing goes for Cena but for different reasons. The kids are gonna boo him and the IWC/Adult fans may actually end up cheering him cause of his new attitude that people have been waiting for. Even if it doesn't keep the crowd split and its full on boo, they lose millions of dollars in merchandise and regardless of what anyone thinks, wrestling anywhere has ALWAYS been about money and money only.

My first thing about this post is the red line above.
While right, wrestling as about MONEY...there will ALWAYS be someone who will take the place in terms of money.
For example;
CM Punk debuts a new shirt. It sells out faster than any shirt has done in years of WWE. Punk is suddenly VERY marketable.
WWE Ice Creams begin to be talked about - again.
Punk DVD's will go through the roof.
Punk action figures -if this new one sells well they're onto a winner.
If a new title is created - WOAH...more revenue.

Basically the next "big face" will always be more marketable...and heels also are marketable to a different audience. I mean being realistic, do you not think a LOT of sales would come from a heel cena shirt?

A lot came when Jericho turned...just saying.

They need to get Cena to a point where everyone thinks there is no going back (like with Hogan). Imagine of his run as a hardcored face going into the 10 yr mark like Hogan's did? And then BAM!!! Heel turn.

Sorry to break it to you here. Already happened.
Look at ALL of these posts here.
All of the screaming 8-12 year olds.
NONE OF THEM, none of US think Cena will turn.
Cena is at the "point of no return".

Unfortunately I think the only way to do it is to build an undisputed number 2 babyface and have him beat the shit of the guy for whatever reason or (I can pray) beats the Undertaker at WM and ends the streak in a real shady way.
For example, hit him with 2 or 3 AA's and have Taker kick out. Then Cena snaps and beats him with a chair over and over, then, to add insult to injury, pins him 1,2,3....with just a single foot on Taker's chest? (would that not piss people the f off?)............JUST A THOUGHT!!!

REALLY?! You wanna put Cena over Taker while Cena is still face?!
Wait. Hang on.
Punk is being groomed into one of the top faces. Listen to the reaction - the fact that he TALKS TO THE CROWD instead of ignoring them, and acknowledges them in a NICE way. The guy is turning face and its inevitable. Face reaction = Eventual face turn. Punk IS marketable.
People saying Punk doesn't sell...BS.
Complete.
How come in this case EVERY SINGLE WEEK when Punk mentions something new, it ends up trending on Twitter? Now I know. Twitter = IWC land but...also there are MILLIONS of users on Twitter. Those millions WAY outweigh the IWC in general. Twitter trends what is genuinely popular on the day - Punk is managing to create trends. If WWE capitalises on these trends, you can guarantee an increase in sales & revenue because it's...what people WANT.

As for double turn, CM Punk is no where near the level Austin was and is already in the grey area while Austin was trying so hard to be a full fledged heel.

Load of rubbish. Punk has ascended PAST being the "big bad heel." He was this during SES. In fact he's been the "big bad heel" throughout a lot of his time in WWE. Try...I dunno, his WHOLE feud with Jeff Hardy where Jeff was arguably the biggest face in the company. Punk was booed voraciously during this time.

Suddenly he flips the switch where he starts talking honestly and he gets over big time. He's in a grey area? Hardly. He's drawing face reaction and so is face.

Now don't get me wrong. Chicago was a different case alltogether. I believe the crowd were primarily made up of the IWC at Money in the Bank which is why they marked for all the wrong - stereotypically speaking - people. So his next RAW appearance was the next step - on his return, if he got cheered he should be seen as making a face turn. WOAH...he got a face reaction. Cena is being booed whenever he's up against Punk.

But thats the prob. Cena is ONLY being booed when he's up against Punk. There HAS to be some element of Cena being booed elsewhere too...the only way to do this is to BOOK HIM AGAINST FACES. I don't see WWE doing this. I don't see WWE booking Punk against heels neither. I think they will want to suspend our belief on who is going to turn and in the end...Punk will go back to being booed. This is likely a short lived thing for Punk. At one point I would have said "This will go the distance and change WWE's landscape". Now I just see it is...it's one angle and when its done, its done.