Did Hall & Nash leaving for WCW save the WWF?

[Vincent Michaels]

Ok, so we all know that in May of 1996, Hall and Nash left WWF for WCW.

In one of their last shows, The Curtain Call occured at Madison Square Garden during a house show which most of you probably know the details on so i'll spare you that one. However since it was recorded, Vince had to give punishment. He couldn't punish Shawn, Hall and Nash were on their way out, so the main punishment was put on Triple H. So anyway what i'm getting to is, we know that he was booked to win the KOTR Tournament that year, but as part of his punishment, he wouldn't win it until 1997, so in 96 they gave it to Steve Austin who of course uttered the famous speech and became the WWF's savior during the Attitude Era.

So basically i'm saying that if Hall and Nash didn't leave, I think that Steve Austin wouldn't have gotten that push and maybe WCW could have won.

So what i'm getting at is, if Triple H hadn't been punished,

Would have Steve Austin ever gotten that push?

What if Shawn had been punished instead?

Would have the WWF survived the war?

Discuss

 

[Slowdude]

Its not really the two of them leaving, its more Nash/Hall/HHH/HBK doing the curtain call. If they hadn't gone out and broke kayfabe HHH would of won King of the Ring and who knows how history would of went after that.

If Nash/Hall didn't leave HHH would of won KotR, NWO wouldn't of formed and thats even harder to think of how professional wrestling would of end up like with the NWO and Austin.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Had the 2 stayed I think that first off Diesel would have had a 2nd reign, probably beginning at Wrestlemania or right after... this time as a heel and I think he'd have feuded with Razor Ramon... Ramon would have gone into Summerslam hot and won the belt from Diesel... setting up the next Mania match probably with Shawn in a 3rd Ladder match... Shawn would probably have been the one to face Warrior on his return...and left the WWF shortly afterwards as the "big steal".

Trips would have gone into Summerslam as the KOTR champion... and likely lifted the IC title at Summerslam from Rocky Maivia... I think Trips would have formed an alliance with other heels, probably Austin and Mr. Perfect and maybe Chris Benoit to form a "Next Gen" stable similar to Evolution.

Trips would have eventually won a world title, but around the same time... Austin would still have broken out by winning the next years KOTR...turning on Hunter and the two feuding for the belt around WM15.

WCW would still have poached people... they;d have gotten Nash a year or so later, Shawn in 1996... Bret probably around 1997... However I do think WCW would have fared far worse had Shawn been part of the equation, his drug problems would have inevitably caused problems with Hogan... Goldberg would probably have signed with the WWF and guys like Big Show would have jumped...

Nash and Hall leaving didn't really save the WWF... but it forced it to get inventive for the first time since the mid 1980's... WWF always had the ability to re-invent itself... had Nash and Hall stayed the competition would have more likely imploded sooner, as what WCW would have gotten would have been less stable....

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

The idea that if Nash and Hall had stayed in the WWF and if Steve Austin hadn't gotten pushed, that WCW would've won the war and the WWF would've died is flawed.

WCW and the WWF were virtually even until the NWO came along. WCW wasn't in the position to put the WWF out of business until the NWO storyline. And who were the two main figures of the NWO that got it started? Hall and Nash. Everyone says Hogan was the driving force behind the NWO and who made it a huge sucess, and while he was the key to get it going, there was no NWO concept without Hall and Nash. The idea of the NWO was that of a bunch of WWF wrestlers coming in and invading. While Hogan was a WWF wrestler and was still mainly associated with the WWF, he had been a WCW guy for 2-3 years at that point. The NWO wouldn't have worked as well if you had just put some of the current WCW guys who used to be in the WWF and have them turn on the WCW guys and try to invade. It might have worked and been interesting, but it wouldn't have seemed nearly as real without Hall and Nash, guys who weren't in WCW for years and were to most regular fans, WWF guys. Many people forget that when Hall and Nash debuted on Nitro, there was still some fans who didn't know that Hall and Nash had left. So some fans truly thought that they were witnessing Razor Ramon and Diesel coming on Nitro and wrecking havoc.

That sense of "holy shit, is this real?" is what really made the NWO storyline so great. Without the element, it isn't near a success.

And without the NWO storyline and Hall and Nash, WCW would've remained focus on Hogan beating every superheavyweight/giant, Savage feuding with the Horsemen, basically the same ole stuff that had been going on for years. Even with this stuff WCW was doing much better business wise than they had before Bischoff took over, but they weren't even close to dominating the WWF. They would win the ratings battle on some nights, but before the NWO storyline, the WWF and WCW were neck and neck and neither was really winning the war and neither was in danger of being put out of business by the other.

So in short, had Hall and Nash stayed, and had Austin thus never gotten pushed or the opportunity, the WWF wouldn't have needed a savior, because they would not be getting their asses kicked.


Of course, WCW may have found something else that could've brought them to the top, but I don't think the cruiserweights alone would've done it. AS great a matches as they were putting on, they weren't what drew new fans in. They were what kept fans watching while they were waiting for the NWO to come out and wreck havoc.


But yeah, it's basically a mute point. Austin may not have gotten the push with Nash/Hall and the Clique running the shots. But at the same time, WCW would've stayed where they were at, healthy competition, but not dangerous competition.

 

[Money Inc.]

I actually enjoy talking about this time period because it's currently being played on wweclassics (Raw late 1995 I mean)

Razor Ramon is oozing machismo and very over. Big Daddy Cool is as hot as ever feuding with Money Corp.

Well many members have speculated on this in the past, but at the same time there are way to many scenarios that could of happen if they were to stay or did not do the curtain call.

IMO Austin would of found a way to get over either way.

 

[Tenta]

And without the NWO storyline and Hall and Nash, WCW would've remained focus on Hogan beating every superheavyweight/giant, Savage feuding with the Horsemen, basically the same ole stuff that had been going on for years. Even with this stuff WCW was doing much better business wise than they had before Bischoff took over, but they weren't even close to dominating the WWF.

This. I'm sorry I couldn't use your enture post, dd23, but this pretty much sums things up. If you don't have Nash and Hall going to WCW, you don't have the nWo, and consequentally, WCW is left with their programming that was universally shat on (I.E. The Dungeon of Doom), while at the very least, the WWE has the more talented workers working at the top. With the old men that ran WCW at the time, there was still no chance of a new face emerging from the bullshit of Hogan, Savage, Flair and the likes.

Something else that gets forgotten about this, which I don't believe that dd23 points out, is that part of, if not the whole reason, that the nWo was successful was because everyone believed that Scott and Kevin were coming from the WWF. Everyone believed that it was going to be a company vs. company super war, and thus, without Hall and Nash, we don't have that feeling of an invasion which no one understands what the fuck is going on. It's really a catch 22; perhaps morale would have been better in the WWE if Hall and Nash left, but if they stayed, there would be no nWo in WCW. So either way, realistically, Nash and Hall leaving was never a good thing for WWE. Quite simply, losing talent is something that's never a good thing. Ever.

 

[Ferbian]

I believe I once read a quote from Austin on WWE.com's "What if" section about the 3:16. Austin said that had he not won the King of the Ring. It would've still happened. Austin was getting where he was supposed to be. He would've gotten to the top one way or another. He got a big thing going during the King of the Ring 96. But ultimately it didn't elevate him completely to what he was going to be.

It was all about cutting the promo at some other time. Any given thing that could've caught on would've worked for him. Austin was and probably still is a big house-hold name. And WWE made it so. They decided to go with it. Not because of one single promo. But because of the fact that he just got so insanely over. Which would've happened either way.

I don't think that Hall and Nash going to WCW would've changed much. It might not have resulted in the foundation of NWO. That's a matter to be discussed. I think that both promotions would've done some kind of thing to end up in that manner either way.

Bischoff had the original idea for NWO no matter what. And I truly do believe that no matter what - WWE would've had some way to elevate Austin as well as the Attitude Era no matter what. So I don't think it would've changed enough for it to be significantly noticeable.