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Final Fantasy VII was ground breaking in that it brought RPG's to the fore front, it sold the Playstation and It made Square-Enix what it is today.
But Fantastic game it is not.
I guess I like the classics where you could go everywhere
there were so many ways to customize your characters and the games aren't so dark.
FFVII started the FF series into becoming more linear, where FFXII was so heavily criticized. Basic towns and dungeons were no longer free roaming.
Quite honestly the characters were not that great. Cloud and Sephiroth are by far from being the best hero and villain of the franchise.
Because of the games graphics and the new play station system, many people played it. But The story was a step down from Final Fantasy 6
love triangle not as compelling as Final Fantasy 4
Characters lacked the customization of Final Fantasy 5
The story took several prequels and squeals to fully explain.
MGS 3: Hideo Kojima is a Genius. Shooters were never really known for their plots, But He took Metal Gear and made it an epic. MGS 3 was no exception. It filled the holes left from the first two games, gave you the the awesome Big Boss and one of the best boss fights ever in The End.
It had all the character development, drama and action of FFVII and more, with better, more hands on game play. The Surprise death of Aerith was dramatic, but is matched, if not surpassed by the scene where you are forced to kill The Boss. Every character, including the villains are compelling. It beats Final fantasy VII in all categories.
I won't even get started on how you claim that the mother of all spoilers (Aeris dies) is surpassed by you being forced to kill The Boss. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
Not quite. Square-Enix was already an established company at this point. Games like Final Fantasy 4 and Secret of Mana are the ones who made Square-Enix what it is today. FF7 was just the crown achievement of a company who were an already worldwide success.
Dark I'll give you.... but you're WAY off on the customization argument. The Materia system opened up the door for an infinite amount of battle tactics. It was up to you the player to figure out what each of the potential combinations were. Thanks to this, 7 had arguably the most customization of any other game in the series. Nice try.
Do you have any idea what you're talking about!? Final Fantasy 7 had one of the best casts of any video game in history. Cloud had an incredible backstory that kept you curious about what the real story was as more things got revealed. Sephiroth devolved from worldwide hero to insane lunatic. The iconic Aeris death, the love interest in Tifa, the vulgar Cid, even the slightly annoying Cait Sith had his moments. Every character was great and developed like no other game before it and very few after it have come close to replicating such a memorable cast.
Kefka was just an insane clown while Sephiroth was legitimately evil and the true standard for every supervillain in gaming that followed.
Actually, yes it was. Kain turned heel due to giving in to his anger to the point where he would betray Cecil to get close to Rosa. Cecil forgives him so he turns face again and they travel together again. That's more or less the whole love triangle in 4. Now, in 7 Aeris dies before Cloud is ever forced into making an official decision. It leaves you wondering who he would have picked had he had a choice. The way it works out does go well, with Cloud ending up with the girl he had a crush on as a child, but he liked Aeris too.
The only customization in 5 was giving random abilities to random classes. A Black Mage could cast White Magic. A Ranger could equip Spears. Most of those are novelty customizations. In FF7 you could customize your characters to the point where there was an endless list of potential battle tactics. It all comes down to the Materia in the end.
A further testament to how good the story is. A good story leaves you feeling somewhat satisfied. A great story leaves you asking for more, FF7 did just that before it got its prequels and sequels. Even to this day it continues to leave the fans wanting to know more about its great story.
Metal Gear 3 was good. I'm not denying that. However, FF7 is better in every possible way. It will take FAR more than filling plot holes of prequels or the addition of new characters for it to be considered better than FF7.
No it didn't. You can't sit there and tell me that Metal Gear 3 had more character development or drama than FF7 did. FF7's character development was seen in the main hero, all of his playable allies, the main villain, other non-playable characters, and even some of the monsters. Metal Gear 3 might have more action, but that depends on your definition of action. I won't even get started on how you claim that the mother of all spoilers (Aeris dies) is surpassed by you being forced to kill The Boss. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. FF7 made you care about every single character, even the lowly generic townspeople that few games have ever made anyone take notice of.
Final Fantasy 7 is the better game of the two and you have yet to prove me wrong because there is nothing Metal Gear 3 can offer that makes it anywhere near FF7's quality level. Nice try and you are brave for your attempt, but you're entire post was wrong.
MGS 3: Hideo Kojima is a Genius. Shooters were never really known for their plots, But He took Metal Gear and made it an epic. MGS 3 was no exception. It filled the holes left from the first two games, gave you the the awesome Big Boss and one of the best boss fights ever in The End. It had all the character development, drama and action of FFVII and more, with better, more hands on game play. The Surprise death of Aerith was dramatic, but is matched, if not surpassed by the scene where you are forced to kill The Boss. Every character, including the villains are compelling. It beats Final fantasy VII in all categories.
Now dont get me wrong, FFVII is good, but MGS 3 is better
The characters are just a group of generic emotions (grumpy, butt hurt, annoying, pretentious, depressed, stoic, naive) with each only exhibited one of them for most of the game. In a previous post, people proclaimed that there was character development. Really? Cloud is still the whiny asshole at the beginning as he was at the end, only difference is that he was much more verbal about his whiny asshole-ness at the end of it. Even when they had a chance to show something in a character (ie Red's return home) he went right back to be a complete holier than thou character. The only one who had any real character development was Aeris and she died early in the game.
The story about saving the world from crazed and/or evil fuck is like every game with a storyline.. Speaking of which, the story is so poorly executed that it boggles me how people can think it is a good one. It just feels like a bunch of side stories mashed into one game. "Like, go do your own shit and we MIGHT have something that connects it to the main story." Most of the side quests don't feel like they are really part of the game because you have to go out of your way to find them.
-Cloud had zero backstory. His backstory was that of a completely different characters'. He was just some asshole that lied to everyone because he was embarrassed about not getting into SOLDIER. Not your typical Mary-Sue Squeenix character, but not really a compelling backstory.
-The Aeris death was known for pissing off gamers who spent time grinding her and leveling with her throughout the first disc. You misinterpreted all the commotion that scene gets.
-The love interest in Tifa went almost completely unexplored.
-Cid was a character that abused the shit out of his woman, and then paraded as if you were supposed to have sympathy for him.
-Cait Sith repeatedly back-stabbed and betrayed the party, and they seem be cool with it.
No, a bad story leaves you asking for more. As in, they had to make an entire game outlining his past due to their inability to write his character properly.
Are you literally stupid? I don't even know what to make of this. I am convinced that you are the single most ill-informed, and quite frankly mkost ignorant member of the WZVG community. Like, it doesn't even make sense. I'm not going to even sit here and explain why this is the most blatantly, objectively incorrect thing I've ever read on this forums, because it's obvious you've never even played more than 10 minutes of any MG game.
Or, I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt. IF you played them, and I'm almost 99% sure you haven't, even though you'll just contradict that and say you have, for the sake of "RELENTLESS DEBATING" or whatever, I'll be willing to grant the fact that you played it while skipping over EVERY cutscene and nanomachine conversation. Because there is no possible way that FINAL GODDAMN FANTASY 7 which is fucking notorious for its extremely shoddy writing and character development* than Metal Gear Solid, which is notorious on its own for its wildly expansive story and writing.
-Cloud had zero backstory. His backstory was that of a completely different characters'. He was just some asshole that lied to everyone because he was embarrassed about not getting into SOLDIER. Not your typical Mary-Sue Squeenix character, but not really a compelling backstory.
-The Aeris death was known for pissing off gamers who spent time grinding her and leveling with her throughout the first disc. You misinterpreted all the commotion that scene gets.
-The love interest in Tifa went almost completely unexplored.
-Cid was a character that abused the shit out of his woman, and then paraded as if you were supposed to have sympathy for him.
-Cait Sith repeatedly back-stabbed and betrayed the party, and they seem be cool with it.
The character writing was shoddy at best, unfinished at worst.
Seriously, what? That's why Kefka was more evil than Sephiroth. Sephiroth had a goal, with justifications that could be considered sympathetic depending on how you twist it. Kefka was just evil because he was insane. He was The Joker. Your own point contradicts you here.
Because there is no possible way that FINAL GODDAMN FANTASY 7 which is fucking notorious for its extremely shoddy writing and character development* than Metal Gear Solid, which is notorious on its own for its wildly expansive story and writing.
There is more character development in Metal Gear 1 for the NES than all Final Fantasy games combined.
*Cloud going from an energetic leader who makes jokes and is determined to save the world to a weeaboo-baiting emo bitch boy because he fell into the lifestream is not character development. It's character replacement.
This is why I red repped you. No backstory? Are you fucking kidding me?
We know he was born in Nibelheim
We see him growing up with his mum and Tifa
We see a pivotal fucking moment where tells Tifa he's leaving to join Soldier and later explains that he was doing it for her.
We learn how he failed and was just a runt recruit
We see the entire Nibelheim reactor incident in a backstory that takes up at least 30 minutes total
We see how he did infact kill Sephiroth by throwing him off the bridge while impaled
We see how he was saved from the reactor by Zack
We see how he escaped from the dungeon with Zack
We see him take Zack's Buster sword after Zack is killed
Zero backstory? Verdict - You're talking out your arse
And you've missed the point. It was supposed to piss people off, that's how you create great villains. Fucks sake, have you never watched wrestling?
Where are you making this stuff up from? Have you ever even played the game or are you just reading the sparknotes?
No-one had any sympathy for Sid and you should remember that he changes his tune once he realised his woman had saved his life.
I can't compete with this kind of stupidity and wrong .
So Kefka, who was basically just insane is a better written character than Sephiroth who has reason, motivation, a plan and is sympathetic?
Notorious for shoddy writing? You mean the game that's widely regarded as one of the greatest gaming stories ever written. Now you're just trolling.
Yep, you're a troll
I don't call that character development, I call it being in a coma. It was started explicitly that he was suffering from massive mako poisoning.
you seemed to have missed the point that I'm speaking in comparison to Solid Snake, you know, the other side of the argument?
This is all you wrote in your post about MGS. You're not saying anything about MGS3, you're simply saying why you think FF7 isn't great. Ironically, the only thing you said about the actual competition of FF7 in this thread is just blatantly wrong. In comparison to Solid Snake? Why are you comparing Cloud to Solid Snake - he wasn't even in MGS3.
Compare MGS3 to FF7, and explain to me why MGS3, not the whole franchise, not MG, not MGS - but MGS3, the actual game we're talking about, is better.
You realize Solid Snake is a clone of Big Boss, right? Same exact character model, same voice actor, same character. Granted, I did actually mean to say Naked Snake, but anybody would have caught my meaning except for somebody grasping at straws attempting to dismantle my argument (hint: it starts with "S" and ends with "alvIsWin")
The entire story between Naked Snake (I'm just going to call him Snake, ffs, this is silly) and The Boss was wonderfully crafted, as it explored love, betrayal, and tied it in with the government conspiracy theme, as is the overall theme of the franchise.
I'm not going to sit here and explain intricate plot details, because anyone that even remotely heard anything about any MGS game will know how complex it gets, but the ending (not spoiling it) is known for affecting you on a deep emotional level. We saw a gruff military soldier transform into someone who is truly able to experience deep emotions about having to go through trying to figure out how to best his master.
We then saw the beginnings of The Patriots (which isn't the same thing as it is in MGS 2 and 3) because of events surrounding the ending of the game.
These weren't people that were just thrown into the mix and called "The Patriots." Everybody in this game was referenced in a previous game in some form, especially in MGS2.
I'm not saying Final Fantasy 7 is a bad game. In fact, I'm literally re-playing it right now. It's paused as I type this. Compared to MGS3 (or any MGS game), however, it's written like some weeaboo fan-fiction. Some characters flat out didn't have any development whatsoever. Red XIII got some damn decent development, but I'm pretty sure Vincent never got touched, Yuffie, Barrett, and Tifa had stories but no real development, and everyone else were just there.
Some characters flat out didn't have any development whatsoever. Red XIII got some damn decent development, but I'm pretty sure Vincent never got touched, Yuffie, Barrett, and Tifa had stories but no real development, and everyone else were just there.