HARDCORE Wrestling is dead?

[CM Steel]

I'm not trying to play the Nas to the "Hip-Hop is dead" LP here. So hear me out.

Most wrestling fans that are still watching pro wrestling today remembers the ECW era in wrestling. Where the WWF/E and WCW at the time would bite some of the attitude that was Extreme Championship Wrestling. The Blood, the extreme violence, and the catching storylines. ECW was the core of hardcore wrestling in the mid-90's with wrestling legend Terry Funk as the figure head of the wrestlers.

The WWF/E had things that they copied from ECW like Stone Cold Steve Austin drinking beer (like the Sandman), Mankind (Mick Foley) getting thrown off the hell in a cell, the gang warfare, ECT. While WCW had stuff like the nWo beating down wrestlers backstage, the WCW Uncencered PPV, and even stealing some ECW talent!

But now in a new era of wrestling, where HARDCORE wrestling has played out to some if not many? Will the total extend of HARDCORE wrestling ever return to us?

Like in 2005 & '06, when the WWE brought back ECW with the "One Night Stand" pay per views, along with the ECW brand on SyFy. And still ti'l this day the WWE has the "EXTREME Rulez" PPV right after Wrestlemania. With TNA wrestling coming up with a ECW-style PPV dubbed "Hardcore Justice" a few years ago.

So all around. Is HARDCORE Wrestling really dead?

 

[Headman]

I'm not trying to play the Nas to the "Hip-Hop is dead" LP here. So hear me out.

Most wrestling fans that are still watching pro wrestling today remembers the ECW era in wrestling. Where the WWF/E and WCW at the time would bite some of the attitude that was Extreme Championship Wrestling. The Blood, the extreme violence, and the catching storylines. ECW was the core of hardcore wrestling in the mid-90's with wrestling legend Terry Funk as the figure head of the wrestlers.

The WWF/E had things that they copied from ECW like Stone Cold Steve Austin drinking beer (like the Sandman), Mankind (Mick Foley) getting thrown off the hell in a cell, the gang warfare, ECT. While WCW had stuff like the nWo beating down wrestlers backstage, the WCW Uncencered PPV, and even stealing some ECW talent!

But now in a new era of wrestling, where HARDCORE wrestling has played out to some if not many? Will the total extend of HARDCORE wrestling ever return to us?

Like in 2005 & '06, when the WWE brought back ECW with the "One Night Stand" pay per views, along with the ECW brand on SyFy. And still ti'l this day the WWE has the "EXTREME Rulez" PPV right after Wrestlemania. With TNA wrestling coming up with a ECW-style PPV dubbed "Hardcore Justice" a few years ago.

So all around. Is HARDCORE Wrestling really dead?

I hope it is. It came to a point where a steel chair to the head couldn't put a guy down in a hardcore match, but a chair in a non hardcore match would knock a guy out cold. Why is that? Hardcore wrestling or "Garbage wrestling" (Because of the junk in the ring, not the quality of wrestling. Although a case could be made for that too.) as vince once put it was like a car crash. After a while people would get sick of car crashes so there would have to be a train wreck. After the train wreck, what? A plane crash? Actual wrestling became boring to fans and it's taken years to retrain the audience to appreciate good wrestling again. This doesn't mean you can't have a violent match here and there. Hell, Last Man standing matches look brutal now but in the mid 90's fans would mock the lack of blood or balcony bumps. I don't want to see anyone ever fall of the Titantron again. I don't care to see anyone set on fire in a match. I don't want to see guys who can't wrestle blade themselves just to make people give a shit. I'm sure eventually it will go back to this. The 70's were bloody, the 90's were trashy so I'd be crazy to think at some point it won't return. But in my opinion I hope it doesn't.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

The thing about Hardcore Wrestling is it got to the point where the question was "Where the hell do we go from here?"

The wrestlers going out to one up the last hardcore match, the bumps got bigger and bigger, the weapon shots got harder and harder, blood loss was more and more.

I do believe that Hardcore wrestling will work it's way back into more mainstream wrestling, but hopefully it will be with more discretion, so that the limits aren't being pushed as far as they were during the height of Hardcore wrestling, I was waiting for it to kill someone in the ring..

 

[Peoples_Champ]

I think we have to differentiate Hardcore wrestling and ECW. When WWE and WCW had Hardcore matches, the intent was to punish the opponent with weapons for cheap pops. ECW told a story, with weapons intertwined with regular wrestling moves. Suplex onto a trash can? First done in ECW. Jumping off a chair, onto the ropes, onto a guy lying on a table? First done in ECW. Hell, Rob Van Dam has a half dozen of his own innovative moves involving a weapon.

Point being, the ECW "Hardcore" matches I could watch all day long. They were new, different, more realistic and had great psychology. WWE and WCW Hardcore matches were nothing more than violence for the sake of cheap pops. WCW I wouldn't expect much from, but Vince I was entirely disappointed because he knows how important the essence of a story is to a match. Hardcore matches / related gimmick matches (TLC, etc.) for the two big companies were nothing more than an excuse to get midcarders over (Edge, Christian, Mick Foley, Hardyz, Dudleyz, etc.). Other than that, it was a joke (case and point - Shawn Stasiak is a 15-time Hardcore champion and the accumulative time of his reign was less than one day).

 

[badnewzxl]

There is still PLENTY of Hardcore wrestling going on; the Last Man Standing match at Vengeance was a Hardcore match. There doesn't always have to be a bunch of random foreign objects in the ring for a match to be considered hardcore; a lot of times it's just the stipulations of the match. Anytime the rules are made more lenient, you've got yourself a hardcore match. A lot of ECW matches didn't involve weapons scattered everywhere, but the fact that there was virtually no DQ most of the time made every ECW match potentially hardcore.

CZW is still going strong today and they've added some stellar wrestling to their ultra-violence. I'm pretty sure Big Japan still have their deathmatches too and I think there's even a Mexican Extreme Wrestling promotion. TNA just had Full Metal Mayhem and a Street Fight at Bound For Glory, not to mention the Lockdown PPV they have every year (esp Lethal Lockdown where WEAPONS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE). WWE has TLC, Extreme Rules, and Hell in a Cell PPV's all of which always have an extreme stipulation added to several matches. ROH's Ladder Wars and Fights Without Honor have been STELLAR to say the least; they just had a Ladder War in September.

Hardcore wrestling is still alive; it just doesn't have a belt like it did in the late 90's bc it doesn't need one. The reason no one appreciated those divisions bc it didn't compliment the rest of the divisions. Being the best guy with weapons doesn't make you a contender for the top title bc the rules are drastically different; the things that make a guy a great Hardcore guy makes him a terrible WRESTLER. ECW was able to ignore this problem bc they made the rules more loose, instead of more strict; in ECW ANYTHING could happen in the match and the refs would just let it ride for the most part, while WWE and WCW HAD to have trash cans, kendo sticks, chairs, tables, etc involved so ppl could call it a hardcore match. They made it about the props and not the violence....

 

[#hamler]

Point being, the ECW "Hardcore" matches I could watch all day long. They were new, different, more realistic and had great psychology. WWE and WCW Hardcore matches were nothing more than violence for the sake of cheap pops.

That's hilarious. Back in ECW in the '90s, most of the wrestlers there were untalented and used a hardcore type style to get over meaning the used weapons for cheap pops. Just because you were ballsy enough to use a Screwdriver in a match doesn't mean you're talented. Today, wrestlers don't need that. They're talented enough to get over without the use of chairs, barb wire etc. WWE's hardcore matches involved far more storytelling then ECW's did. Just because you jump off a chair a couple times doesn't make it good psychology. Tommy Dreamer never had a good match that didn't involve weapons, same for Sabu, Sandman and half of the ECW roster back in the '90's. Good hardcore wrestling should feature wrestling mixed with weapons. No chair shot after another but different type chair shot. Last Man Standing matches, TLC matches, Table matches, Hell in a Cell matches are today's version of WWE's Hardcore matches which are far better then anything ECW could cook up.

 

[Minister Christian]

I don`t think Hardcore wrestling is dead. You still see the steel chairs, the baseball bats and the throwing into the commentry table. I would like to see the WWE bring back the Hardcore championship, 24/7. Has the potential to bring awesome story lines.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

That's hilarious. Back in ECW in the '90s, most of the wrestlers there were untalented and used a hardcore type style to get over meaning the used weapons for cheap pops. Just because you were ballsy enough to use a Screwdriver in a match doesn't mean you're talented. Today, wrestlers don't need that. They're talented enough to get over without the use of chairs, barb wire etc. WWE's hardcore matches involved far more storytelling then ECW's did. Just because you jump off a chair a couple times doesn't make it good psychology. Tommy Dreamer never had a good match that didn't involve weapons, same for Sabu, Sandman and half of the ECW roster back in the '90's. Good hardcore wrestling should feature wrestling mixed with weapons. No chair shot after another but different type chair shot. Last Man Standing matches, TLC matches, Table matches, Hell in a Cell matches are today's version of WWE's Hardcore matches which are far better then anything ECW could cook up.

I completely agree. I'v heard so many arguments ECW fans have tried to come up with as to how the rest of us don't "get it" when there's nothing to get. What ECW is most remembered for by the VAST majority of wrestling fans are extreme, bloody, over the top hardcore matches. Why? Because it's what Paul Heyman used to sell his product. Back in the 90s, whenever I saw a commercial advertising an ECW ppv all I saw was a compliation of footage featuring guys being put through tables, landing on beds of thumbtacks, hit with boards wrapped in barbed wire, taking one chairshot to the head after another, wrestlers jumping off balconies, etc. all while Paul Heyman screamed at the top of his lungs "This Is Extreme!!!!!". Please, spare me the idea that ECW was trying to tell some sort of story with its hardcore matches. It's an image that they cultivated and now many fans are actually pissed because that's all most other people remember them for. It's a ludicrous notion that there's any psychology in Sabu jumping onto the middle of the top rope and jumping onto a guy lying on two or three stacked tables. Without the hardcore element in matches, guys like Sabu, Tommy Dreamer, Sandman and numerous others that passed through ECW wouldn't have had a career.

As for the topic itself, no hardcore wrestling isn't dead. Hardcore wrestling can still be used and is used in a more limited fashion. As far as hardcore wrestling and how it was done back in the 90s and in ECW, yeah it's pretty much on life support and somebody needs to pull the plug. With what we've come to know about the kind of trauma, especially long term trauma, some of the spots and bumps can do, things had to have changed. Unprotected chairshots are gone from any decent, reputable wrestling company. WWE has instilled a no blood policy, which is a good idea because look at all the diseases floating around out there that can be caught. There's a rumor that the "undisclosed injury" that's plagued Nigel McGuinness is Hepatitis, not sure which one. If that's true, and he blades during a match and his blood gets into an open wound or sore on another wrestler or if another wrestler were to wind up swallowing some of the blood that'd dripped onto him, then that guy could catch it as well.

I think Sinister Shadow made a good point when the notion about the spots having to become bigger and more dangerous in order to get crowds to pop. There's a lot of truth in that. On these forums, I've read posts in which there are lots of complaints if wrestlers don't bleed during a match. I've even read a number of posts that've said the reason they don't like HIAC anymore is because nobody gets tossed off the top of the cages now. There are lots of wrestling fans out there that just simply don't have a clue how detrimental hardcore wrestling can be on the wrestlers.

 

[badnewzxl]

That's hilarious. Back in ECW in the '90s, most of the wrestlers there were untalented and used a hardcore type style to get over meaning the used weapons for cheap pops. Just because you were ballsy enough to use a Screwdriver in a match doesn't mean you're talented. Today, wrestlers don't need that. They're talented enough to get over without the use of chairs, barb wire etc. WWE's hardcore matches involved far more storytelling then ECW's did. Just because you jump off a chair a couple times doesn't make it good psychology. Tommy Dreamer never had a good match that didn't involve weapons, same for Sabu, Sandman and half of the ECW roster back in the '90's. Good hardcore wrestling should feature wrestling mixed with weapons. No chair shot after another but different type chair shot. Last Man Standing matches, TLC matches, Table matches, Hell in a Cell matches are today's version of WWE's Hardcore matches which are far better then anything ECW could cook up.

you do realize that Tables matches came from ECW, right? And TLC came from Sabu and Sandman's Tables and Ladders Legal match. Hell in a Cell matches and Last Man Standing matches existed back when there was a hardcore division. WWE's hardcore matches didn't involve more storylines than ECW's matches; EVERY ECW match that involved weapons had an angle attached to it. This is what I'm talking about; fans were too distracted by the weapons and furniture and they couldn't concentrate on what ACTUALLY was going on. ECW is the epitomy of GREAT hardcore wrestling; your opinion is grossly unfounded and takes away the talent of GREAT wrestlers like RVD, Rhino, 2 Cold Scorpio, Tajiri, Super Crazy, Masato Tanaka, Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm, Kid Kash, Taz, and some others. Did you actually WATCH ECW during the 90's? You wanna see some good ECW without a bunch of weapons? Watch Heat Wave 98; the only match that includes a bunch of weapons is the very last match. Hell, Barely Legal 97 only had one or two matches with a bunch of weapons everywhere (Douglas v. Pitbull 2, and the Triple Threat match at the end).

You guys obviously didn't watch ECW

 

[#hamler]

you do realize that Tables matches came from ECW, right? And TLC came from Sabu and Sandman's Tables and Ladders Legal match. Hell in a Cell matches and Last Man Standing matches existed back when there was a hardcore division.

You do realize that hasnothing to do with what I posted, right? I said WWE could do it far better than ECW ever could. Just because ECW did it first doesn't make it better.

WWE's hardcore matches didn't involve more storylines than ECW's matches; EVERY ECW match that involved weapons had an angle attached to it.

So does WWE's. In fact, they based entire PPV's and a month's buildup on hardcore styles.

This is what I'm talking about; fans were too distracted by the weapons and furniture and they couldn't concentrate on what ACTUALLY was going on.

Did they have good matches, yeah some of the cruiserwieghts there were great but that doesn't change the fact that half of the ECW roster was made up of regular guys with gimmicks. Pull anyone ballsy enough off the street and they could do what you saw in ECW. Not sure I could say the same for WWE.

ECW is the epitomy of GREAT hardcore wrestling;

Very few actually had any real skill. It isn't an opinion, look at the roster, most couldn't wrestle for shits.

your opinion is grossly unfounded and takes away the talent of GREAT wrestlers like RVD, Rhino, 2 Cold Scorpio, Tajiri, Super Crazy, Masato Tanaka, Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm, Kid Kash, Taz, and some others.

Notice I said half the roster. Also, the only guys out of your list who were tops guys in ECW are RVD and Taz and Rhyno (a little).

Did you actually WATCH ECW during the 90's? You wanna see some good ECW without a bunch of weapons? Watch Heat Wave 98; the only match that includes a bunch of weapons is the very last match. Hell, Barely Legal 97 only had one or two matches with a bunch of weapons everywhere (Douglas v. Pitbull 2, and the Triple Threat match at the end).

Yet ECW was on for how many years and you gve me two PPVs where they use few weapons.

You guys obviously didn't watch ECW

I was unaware I had a stalker. Of course I watched it, then watched it on youtube and other sites on the net, yet nothing is there to prove to me that any of these guys who were greatly relevant in ECW, besides a select few, had any real talent. Weapons don't make a great match, storytelling does. I'm sorry I can't watch a Sandman match and call him a great wrestler because of his lack of ability to tell a story.

 

[jkenyon81]

not dead but nobody wants to see it unless your 30 and nostalgic. and yes there has been "hardcore" matches but real hardcore is pretty gone for 2 reasons.
1- real hardcore wasn't scripted throughout the whole match, if you found something you swing it. you don't go over to the staged 9,280 steel chairs dangling for no reason and pull a release lever.
2- match stoppage for cuts so the medic can superglue a cut over an eye. i remember that happening to Shelton Benjamin at a Money in the Bank. just sucked the momentum out of the spot.

 

[SickJames]

No it's not dead and it's a cop out to say otherwise


You dont have to STOP having specialty matches BE hardcore to "retrain" ppl and if those people need retraining maybe they werent real fans to begin with if standard bouts are boring to them

The truth is it's not that it was the case, it's the lack of star power because there were great matches, wrestling matches during The Attitude Era and great wrestlers in ECW

People like to sheepishly blame it. There's truth that toning down the amount was needed, but not to the degree THEY took it too

It can still be hardcore when you DO the matches

However WWE didnt even take it as far as people are making it out to be. What do you mean where do you go from here? ever hear of a thing called DEATHMATCHES ppl?

WWE never did one, they couldve went there! And dont give me the crap about how it's too risky or unsafe, they could do them.

Make new ones

There's always another height to take things to, you just have to be creative enough. And use things in moderation, but the right way also

they couldve brung some matches back. Stop doing the same Last Man Standing, Cage, Ladder matches. stop giving us a Street Fight, Hardcore, Extreme Rules, No Holds Barred and NO DQ match so close together and most of the time expecting us to forget it's all the same thing and that a Falls Count Anywhere is deathly close

Use other damn matches! ppl will like it!

 

[Beastmode 24]

I dont think hardcore wrestling is dead, i just think it's evolved into something else right now. The WWE PG era has really put a limit on things that guys can do to each other..i think a match like randy orton/john cena from breaking point a couple years ago is an example about what hardcore is now. But in all Honesty, i hope that Ultraviolent BullS$%^ that CZW does dies a slow death before one of the guys that "Wrestles" there does. That stuff is pathetic, plain and simple

 

[Hyorinmaru]

hardcore wrestling isn't Dead and In my opinion it never will completely die. It will evolve though and it has to a large extent already.

As much as I love The Original ECW to this day the time of that amount of blood and violence is over and it will not be coming back. There's way to much research out there on Concussions for anyone to even want to do what they did in ECW. Then there's the threat of disease if one person has a disease and both people are cut open the odds of it getting passed are well above 50%. People still want to see the more hardcore type matches and we get that, in WWE and TNA the only difference is TNA still lets their wrestlers blade.

The Main Point is that the people that want to see that kind of match is in the minority and it always has been. It's any companies job to give the majority of people who buy/use their product what they want be it a restaurant, record label or a wrestling company. It's for this reason feds like CZW and JCW will never be anything more than small local indy feds, they just don't cater to the larger audience

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No, but garbage wrestling is. if you need to use weapons to be entertaining, you suck. When people said "Paul Heyman knew how to book to a guy's strength" they mean "he had a bunch of fat, unathletic, shit wrestlers that were tough so he gave them a bunch of shit to beat each other up with".

John Cena vs ADR was "hardcore" enough for me. Not over the top, but stuff was brutal. Going through a table isn't brutal, it breaks your fall and doesn't really hurt. Jumping full speed off the ring into the barricade and falling on your shoulder likely hurt more.

"Hardcore" wrestling is just using brutality. "Garbage" wrestling is using a bunch of unneccessary (spelling?) weapons because you aren't entertaining enough to keep the crowd without them.

Edit: first person to say "what about the luchadores or Jericho or Benoit or guerrero or Malenko are idiots. They weren't there very long, that's why it was a SHOWCASE when they were there, because they weren't the norm.

 

[Beastmode 24]

the better definition of "hardcore wrestling" now would be ROH. hard hitting kick your teeth down your throat wrestling, with some weapons thrown in every now and again. that is what I love about wrestling. Take a look at Ric Flair/Terry Funk. The I Quit match from 89 to be exact. That was hardcore wrestling.

 

[SmarksAreIgnorant]

ITS AAAAAAAAAAALIIIIIIIIIIIVEEEEE! ITS AAAALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVEEEEEE!

Its all about the evolution of what a "smark" wrestling fan demands or just in general wrestling fans. 90's was all about crash course television and thats ECW gave fans and thats why WWF/WCW became more edgey. Right now I think wrestling fans demand actually quality wrestling, without the same old generic outline of matches from the 80's that insult their intelligence. Thats what TNA USED to offer but now TNA has went back to the 90's and WWE has moved back to the 80's. None of them are moving forward.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

you do realize that Tables matches came from ECW, right? And TLC came from Sabu and Sandman's Tables and Ladders Legal match. Hell in a Cell matches and Last Man Standing matches existed back when there was a hardcore division. WWE's hardcore matches didn't involve more storylines than ECW's matches; EVERY ECW match that involved weapons had an angle attached to it. This is what I'm talking about; fans were too distracted by the weapons and furniture and they couldn't concentrate on what ACTUALLY was going on. ECW is the epitomy of GREAT hardcore wrestling; your opinion is grossly unfounded and takes away the talent of GREAT wrestlers like RVD, Rhino, 2 Cold Scorpio, Tajiri, Super Crazy, Masato Tanaka, Jerry Lynn, Lance Storm, Kid Kash, Taz, and some others. Did you actually WATCH ECW during the 90's? You wanna see some good ECW without a bunch of weapons? Watch Heat Wave 98; the only match that includes a bunch of weapons is the very last match. Hell, Barely Legal 97 only had one or two matches with a bunch of weapons everywhere (Douglas v. Pitbull 2, and the Triple Threat match at the end).

You guys obviously didn't watch ECW

Jerry Lynn and Kidd Kash are NOT great wrestlers. That's lunacy. They never drew a fucking dime. What, Jerry Lynn fucks up his rolling powerbomb through a table spot so instead of improvising and telling a story, he simply sets the spot back up and redoes is so the ECW tards can go "HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT"? That's not good wrestling. I'm not even going to start on Kid Kash, dude never drew a dime, drawing is the job of a pro wrestler, if you don't draw, you aren't good. Marek Brave can do a (shitty) shooting star press, does that mean he's a good wrestler? Does anyone even know/give a damn who Marek Brave is?

ECW had a bunch of guys who did spots. They were either tough guy non-athletes or they were athletes who did a bunch of spots but didn't really tell a story (RVD vs Jerry Lynn).


As for the guy in the most recent post, WWE hasn't moved back to the 80s. You ever go and watch 80s wrestling? Like, besides Mania 3 I mean, like actually watch the TV shows? It's completely different. Today's WWE is closer to 96-97 Nitro.

Pro wrestling has ALWAYS had the same formula in the matches. Face shine, heel cut off, hope spot, cut off, hope spot, cut off, comeback, finishing stretch, finish.

In ECW they didn't sell, they didn't tell in ring stories, it was a bunch of spots. That's not edgy, that just appealed to a small section of the audience that thought more spots meant you were a better wrestler; which is similar to saying that having shiny shoes makes you a good salesman.

Ever wonder why everyone calls it "the business"? It's a business. It's not "let's do a million gymnastics spots" it's not "lets mindlessly hit each other with shit", it's storytelling and selling. You put asses in the seats and you're good.

A pro wrestler has 2 jobs, 1-draw, 2-stay safe. Shane McMahon had a phrase "safe but spectacular" that he would tell guys before stunt-show type matches (ladder matches). You can do it that way, or you can connect with your audience that simply lowering a shoulder strap (Lawler in Memphis), grabbing a leg and saying "NOOOOOW" (Flair), shaking around in an epileptic fit (Hogan), taking your elbow pad off (Rock), giving someone the bird (Austin), stomping in the corner (HBK), or waving your hand in front of your face (Cena) sends 15,000 people into a frenzy.

There is more than 1 way to skin a cat. Hardcore wrestling was simply one way of drawing. It wasn't better than other ways, and in a lot of ways, it was easier. I mean easier in that, pretty much anyone, if they were either ballsy enough or drunk enough, could take a german suplex through a flaming barbed wire table. However, how many people can do what the biggest draws of all time could/can do?


Also, to the guy above, I felt like the Attitude Era insulted my intelligence more than the 80s ever did. The 80s didn't pretend to be anything more than a fun family entertainment show with good guys and bad guys, the Attitude Era was jerry springer trash tv.

 

[The Woo Kid]

I don't think harcore wrestling is dead at all. Just the other day I saw an article on WWE.com talking about this exact topic. I think that it has taken a backseat to other types of wrestling but still it exists so in theory that can't make it declared dead.

 

[thepsychodriver]

There are rumors that XPW will come back so maybe not. Apparently Rob Black, the owner came back to wrestling the other month on a show called Fit Pit Fight Night on the Strip (http://www.makemeaprowrestler.com/2011/07/fight-night-on-the-strip/ and http://www.iamsmiley.com/2011/09/16/fight-night-on-the-strip-2/s). Him promoting XPW again would be interesting if they stuck to the hardcore stuff they were known for and not watered down hardcore like ECW on Sci Fi.

 

[Beastmode 24]

There are rumors that XPW will come back so maybe not. Apparently Rob Black, the owner came back to wrestling the other month on a show called Fit Pit Fight Night on the Strip (http://www.makemeaprowrestler.com/2011/07/fight-night-on-the-strip/ and http://www.iamsmiley.com/2011/09/16/fight-night-on-the-strip-2/s). Him promoting XPW again would be interesting if they stuck to the hardcore stuff they were known for and not watered down hardcore like ECW on Sci Fi.

i hope this bullshit garbage doesnt come back. aside from a couple of guys, this promotion was nothing more than a glorified porn promotion. bunch of shit.