Joe Maddon: Manager Of The Year?

[NSL]

I'll preface this, by admitting I am a Mets fan, but how does Collins not win this? I'm not denying Maddon did an outstanding job, because he did, but his team finished third in their division, and was expected to do better than the Mets.

Collins took a crew of young arms, and a ragtag bunch of guys, and made them contenders, even before the trades were made for Uribe, Johnson, Cespedes, and Clippard. This award is not a "Comeback" award. It is meant for the guys that did the best job.

Collins should have won for making the World Series, with Matheny 2nd for taking the Cardinals B squad to the best record in the majors, and then maybe Maddon third. I'd listen to argument for Hurdle being ahead of him.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Well your first problem is being a Mets fan.

Your shitty fandom aside, just like you said, it is awarded to the manager who does the best job. Maddon took a bunch of rookies and lead them to the playoffs just a year after the Cubs were garbage. I'm not sure anyone expected the Cubs to contend as quickly as they did, while the Mets were trending up after a strong push late last season.

It helps Maddon's cause that he coached in a division with three playoff teams, while the NL East was the Mets and a collapsing Nationals all season.

I'm not denying the job Collins did, I watched his team beat up on the Braves all season, but I think where the Mets performed during the regular season was closer to expectations than where the Cubs performed. I think all the midseason acquisitions the Mets made hurt in the eyes of the voters as well.

It also helps Maddon's cause that the Cubs doing well is a feel good story for the media. "Oh look at us, we Cubs fans are lovable losers, we embrace our shitty history so we deserve to be in the spotlight when we do perform well."

I hate the Cubs just as much as I hate the Mets, and I think a fair argument could be made for either guy, but you have a guy in Maddon who made an immediate turnaround in one of baseball's biggest markets versus a guy in Collins who has shown steady improvement over the last three seasons as New York's second banana. If the Mets weren't in the shadow of the Yankees(fuck them too) then Collins would have a better shot in my opinion.

And fuck the Cardinals while I'm at it. Best fans in baseball my ass.

 

[NSL]

Your shitty fandom aside, just like you said, it is awarded to the manager who does the best job. Maddon took a bunch of rookies and lead them to the playoffs just a year after the Cubs were garbage. I'm not sure anyone expected the Cubs to contend as quickly as they did, while the Mets were trending up after a strong push late last season.

A bunch of rookies, but one of them was named the best rookie, and he probably has the Cy Young winner on his staff. So, while his team may have been young, they clearly played better than they would usually be expected.

And I agree the Mets were trending upward, but not to this extent. There was talk of them maybe being a Wild Card team, but there was no mention of them as division winners, or as a World Series team. All of that was at least a year away, maybe two. They overachieved this year.

It helps Maddon's cause that he coached in a division with three playoff teams, while the NL East was the Mets and a collapsing Nationals all season.

I can't argue with this. The Central really blew away the field this year, but Maddon's band of healthy rookies couldn't get past the Pirates, who were one and done, or Matheny's merry band of crash test dummies.

I'm not denying the job Collins did, I watched his team beat up on the Braves all season, but I think where the Mets performed during the regular season was closer to expectations than where the Cubs performed. I think all the midseason acquisitions the Mets made hurt in the eyes of the voters as well.

I'll agree that acquiring Uribe and Johnson was the start of it, but look at their production for their time with the team. Uribe was the first man off the bench, and Johnson was relegated to pinch hitting once Wright was healthy and Duda heated up. Cespedes was out of this world, but disappeared in the postseason. I wish voting was done post-WS, and not right after the season.

I hate the Cubs just as much as I hate the Mets, and I think a fair argument could be made for either guy, but you have a guy in Maddon who made an immediate turnaround in one of baseball's biggest markets versus a guy in Collins who has shown steady improvement over the last three seasons as New York's second banana. If the Mets weren't in the shadow of the Yankees(fuck them too) then Collins would have a better shot in my opinion.

And fuck the Cardinals while I'm at it. Best fans in baseball my ass.

Bitter much?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Bitter much?

I already hate that Indiana doesn't have an MLB team and I have to outsource my fandom to Atlanta, a city with best known for giving the world Ted Turner and Coca-Cola as well as Stone Mountain (the most racist monument in the US), but now I have to watch them suck up the place and trade all their good players. I'm very bitter.

I also hate a lot of things.

 

[NSL]

I already hate that Indiana doesn't have an MLB team and I have to outsource my fandom to Atlanta, a city with best known for giving the world Ted Turner and Coca-Cola as well as Stone Mountain (the most racist monument in the US), but now I have to watch them suck up the place and trade all their good players. I'm very bitter.

I also hate a lot of things.

I would think, if MLB expanded again, Indianapolis would get some consideration. I also know, from my time talking to colleges, that Indiana is basically basketball first, and then everything else (except the Indy 500). Since then, I assume Peyton had given some rise to football, but baseball could still be a ways off.

I'm sorry you are a fan of the Braves.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I would think, if MLB expanded again, Indianapolis would get some consideration. I also know, from my time talking to colleges, that Indiana is basically basketball first, and then everything else (except the Indy 500). Since then, I assume Peyton had given some rise to football, but baseball could still be a ways off.

I'm sorry you are a fan of the Braves.

As a state, basketball is far and away the number one sport. It is practically a sin to grow up in a house without a basketball hoop. I actually made a joke in an old RP about Mikey being secretly good at basketball because he grew up in rural Indiana where there is nothing to do but look at corn, *********e, and play basketball.

Without Peyton, pro football in Indiana likely wouldn't exist. Before he came along we were playing in the crappy RCA dome, which was the smallest stadium in the NFL and were constantly rumored to be moving to LA until they built Lucas Oil, which is often referred to as the house that Peyton built.

The northern part of the state has a fairly decent hockey fanbase, most of them are filthy Red Wing fans though.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I can see the point about Collins and the Mets. In addition to the players being underachievers for so many years, the team's management has been constrained by financial losses in the Bernie Madoff scandal and haven't been able to spend the money you'd expect of a New York team. Still, Collins coaxed & coddled a young pitching staff and got to the World Series.

Still, I'd agree with the choice of Maddon as manager of the year. He and Theo Epstein took a losing culture that's lasted for decades and did well in a really tough division.

 

[The Brain]

I'll preface this by saying I am a Cubs fan, but there are a few points I want to address.

I'm not denying Maddon did an outstanding job, because he did, but his team finished third in their division, and was expected to do better than the Mets.

Despite finishing third in their division they did do better than the first place Mets. In fact had the Cubs finished better than every first place team in baseball except the one in their own division.

Collins should have won for making the World Series, with Matheny 2nd for taking the Cardinals B squad to the best record in the majors, and then maybe Maddon third. I'd listen to argument for Hurdle being ahead of him.

Making it to the World Series is irrelevant in this discussion. This is a regular season award. The votes are made before the postseason begins. I think Maddon was the right call. Matheny certainly would have been a reasonable choice but I'd say Collins is a distant third. Maddon was in the best division in baseball. Collins was in the worst.

And I agree the Mets were trending upward, but not to this extent. There was talk of them maybe being a Wild Card team, but there was no mention of them as division winners, or as a World Series team. All of that was at least a year away, maybe two. They overachieved this year.

The Cubs overachieved by a lot. People have been talking about their future for a few years now but they were still supposed to be a year or two away from postseason play. I would have been happy with .500. Winning 97 games was incredible.

I can't argue with this. The Central really blew away the field this year, but Maddon's band of healthy rookies couldn't get past the Pirates, who were one and done, or Matheny's merry band of crash test dummies.

I know I said postseason is irrelevant in this discussion but I just had to point out that the Cubs got past both these teams in October. I wouldn't have bothered to bring it up but the way you phrased it, "Pirates who were one and done," was amusing since it was the Cubs that were responsible for that.

Sometimes I question how much value a manager truly has. For the most part we have to count on the players to deliver results. Maddon is different though. He was the absolute perfect fit for this team. He knew exactly how to handle these young guys. I've been a Cubs fan for 30 years now. I've seen some postseason teams before. Not many, but a few. This team was unlike any Cubs team I've ever seen and I think Maddon is a big reason why. Over the years I've said to myself many times "That's so Cub." When I say this I'm referring to some kind of ridiculous bonehead mistake that seemingly only the Cubs make on a consistent basis. I didn't say that at all this year. In one year Maddon has helped to change the culture in Chicago. We've had talented guys over the years but that winning culture just hasn't been here. There's a different vibe with Maddon. He doesn't just fall into the standard formulas. He isn't afraid to experiment with different things whether it be shuffling the line up around, mixing up the roles in the bullpen, or just telling the guys to relax and not bother with batting practice for a few days. It may seem corny but doing stupid things, like bringing a magician in the clubhouse or bringing a petting zoo on the field and inviting the players families to enjoy it, kept these guys loose and kept them from getting too down on themselves. I really don't think the Cubs would have come close to 97 wins without Maddon. Collins did a great job, but I don't think he made the kind of difference Maddon did.

 

[tdmoon]

I was on the fence with your post until this:

It also helps Maddon's cause that the Cubs doing well is a feel good story for the media. "Oh look at us, we Cubs fans are lovable losers, we embrace our shitty history so we deserve to be in the spotlight when we do perform well."

I hate the Cubs just as much as I hate the Mets, and I think a fair argument could be made for either guy, but you have a guy in Maddon who made an immediate turnaround in one of baseball's biggest markets versus a guy in Collins who has shown steady improvement over the last three seasons as New York's second banana. If the Mets weren't in the shadow of the Yankees(fuck them too) then Collins would have a better shot in my opinion.

And fuck the Cardinals while I'm at it. Best fans in baseball my ass.

That won me over. I've ranted about Cubs fans embracing being losers and Cards fans being overrated for years. Oh, yeah....and fuck the Yankees, too.

Really, I don't have a solid opinion on which of the two should have won. Cases could be made for both and I'd have been okay with either. A bit like the Cy award. I thought Arrieta deserved it but wouldn't have thrown a fit about Greinke winning(even though fuck the dodgers most of all). Both were fantastic.