Viva la Raza! Remembering Eddie....

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I have the outmost respect for this guy, everything he did was amazing,from promos, to in ring skills, to everything. Sadly, 9 years ago to this day, he passed away.

What are your favorite moments with Latino Heat? He had a ton of great matches and moments, but one that I enjoy a lot was a match back in WCW with "Lionheart" Chris Jericho. Sick match, fast paced action and clean finishes and simply PRO WRESTLING.

 

[Its Clobberin' Time]

Beating Brock Lesnar for the WWE title at No Way Out...brilliant!

 

[Messiah]

Umm, His match with Rey Mysterio in WCW.. That's pretty much it, i didn't enjoy his WWE run at all, maybe near the end when he turned heel but that's it. His feud with Rey in 05 was pretty good to.

 

[MC_Live]

Eddie Guerrero is one of my all time favorite superstars. The first time I ever watched Wrestling, I was 8 years old and I caught an episode of SmackDown as it started. It was January 04, so I caught the break up between him and Chavo, and then I saw him on his rise to the WWE Championship. The night he won the championship was a classic match, and one of the best moments in WWE History. From the moment I first saw Eddie on TV, I just knew he was something special. His last two mania matches are two of my all time favorites, against Kurt and Rey. The ending to his Mania match with Kurt was fantastic. Back in 05, I hated Eddie when he went heel because I was 10 years old and thats what you do. But now in retrospect, I realize how good he was. Every time I go back and watch Eddie Guerrero I am entertained, and I'm just sad that there could have been so much more.

It's hard to pick just one favorite match. His No Holds Barred Match with Edge is one of the best in SmackDown history. He had a great parking lot brawl with John Cena. The Ladder match with RVD was phenomenal, and anything against Benoit or Malenko was pure magic. At the top of the list, I'd have to put his match with Rey from Halloween Havoc 97, the Ladder match with Rey from SummerSlam 05, and the 2 Out of 3 Falls Match with Malenko in ECW.

This day 9 years ago was one of the most heartbreaking days of my life. But I'll always remember Eddie Guerrero very fondly, as will the entire world of professional wrestling. Lie, Cheat, and Steal. Viva La Raza

 

[L@RISANO]

As a WWE fan who loved Eddie's antics as a performer, it was a sad day when I found out he had passed on.

I still feel he'd be of great value even today as a performer, because he had that natural charisma to entice people to love him and be interested in what he did. There aren't many Superstars out there who had that ability and that is what got me and many others out here interested in seeing what he does.

It's been 9 years, wish we could still see him performing and doing it all; Viva La Raza!

 

[TheICChampion]

Just any backstage or in the ring moment of Eddie lying, cheating and stealing. It always cracked me up when he banged a chair against the mat, then threw it to his opponent and faked being hit, and then you'd see him sit up a little to make sure the ref saw it and as soon as the ref turned toward Eddie, he'd quickly lay back down. Classic backstage moments with guys like Batista in the months before his death, and the Royal Rumble in 2005 were freakin' hilarious.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Eddie Guerrero is my second most favorite wrestler of all time after Austin and that is mostly because of the "Lie, Cheat and Steal" gimmick. That is not to say that he wasn't very good before that. Hell, he was probably in the league of Jericho and HBK as a worker, but it takes something special to break the glass ceiling and in Eddie's case it was this gimmick.

I think Eddie could have easily been the antihero of the PG era. Think about it. He got his wins by nefarious means and because of his natural charisma, the crowd loved him. He could have been a smart antihero, not one that curses and beats the hell out of everybody, but someone who uses his intelligence to screw the heels over. But then, it has been said that he could not handle pressure all that well. I've also heard that he did not enjoy being a face, which is odd, considering the pops he got everytime he walked out as a face.

My favorite Eddie moment would have to be his win against Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 20 when he outsmarted him by taking off his shoe. That was classic Eddie and the look on Angle's face was awesome.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Some great Eddie Moments:

* I lie, I cheat, I steal - He just made that character his own, and did it effortlessly. I loved his promos during his WWE run.

* Halloween Havoc versus Rey Mysterio - Probably the greatest cruiserweight match I ever saw. Simply fantastic.

* Eddie Guerrero and Tajiri vs. World's Greatest Tag Team - This whole angle just worked and was a tribute to the ring work of really all of these guys.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

[YOUTUBE]/NJ_1DPGIX3I?t=1h[/YOUTUBE]

This is a great one that not enough people have seen. In case I got the embedding wrong, go to the 1 hour mark for Los Gringos Locos (Eddy and Art Barr) versus Octagon and El Hijo del Santo in the double hair versus double mask match.

It's absolutely brilliant.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

Im probably going to get destroyed for this but I consider Eddie to be one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time. I just find it funny that people have clamored about him being a legend and such an inspirational story after he died while seemingly never saying anything about that while he was alive. It's not a knock against him as I feel a lot of people are held in a higher regard after they die.

Don't get me wrong he was an excellent performer and one that I liked a lot, but he's nowhere near as good as he is made out to be. And I strongly believe he is viewed that way just because he died early. Not too mention WWE sucked every dime out of his corpse as possible with Rey Mysterio living on his legacy for about a year and riding that into the main event.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Im probably going to get destroyed for this but I consider Eddie to be one of the most overrated wrestlers of all time. I just find it funny that people have clamored about him being a legend and such an inspirational story after he died while seemingly never saying anything about that while he was alive. It's not a knock against him as I feel a lot of people are held in a higher regard after they die.

Don't get me wrong he was an excellent performer and one that I liked a lot, but he's nowhere near as good as he is made out to be. And I strongly believe he is viewed that way just because he died early. Not too mention WWE sucked every dime out of his corpse as possible with Rey Mysterio living on his legacy for about a year and riding that into the main event.

You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

Ever hear that line before? Because it's a pretty common sentiment that most people have. They tend not to fully appreciate something until they don't have it anymore, and realize "hey I miss that... it was pretty damn good!"

This myth that Eddie got more popular after he died is exactly that. A myth. He was incredibly over when he was alive, and very appreciated by the fans. There's even been talk that at least some of Cena's push was slated to go to Eddie. He was great, and I wish there were more people in the history of this business that could own their character as well as Eddie owned his.

I've got a feeling though your last sentence has a lot to do with your feelings here. What the WWE decided to do after Eddie passed away should have literally no impact on him. He obviously had nothing to do with it. I doubt he would have minded it because it benefited both his family and a friend, but absolutely no one should look back at that and say they think less of Eddie because of what some corporation did with his name after he was dead.

 

[wrestler36]

I remember first seeing Eddie on the WCW Worldwide shows on Saturday morning. I remember thinking he was a really good wrestler, but he was going to be used as a utility guy like Brad Armstrong. He had a bad mustache, a mullet and cheesy red,white and blue pants. Man, I'm glad I was wrong.

I actually loved him as the comedy heel. Latino Heat was great, as we started to really see his goofy personality. I would have loved to have seen where they were going with him and Batista. I'm sure initially they wanted him to trick Batista and be an evil heel, but I think the crowd was so behind them that they would have had to change their mind. Excellent wrestler, excellent personality. Definitely a sad one to lose.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

You don't know what you've got until it's gone.

Ever hear that line before? Because it's a pretty common sentiment that most people have. They tend not to fully appreciate something until they don't have it anymore, and realize "hey I miss that... it was pretty damn good!"

This myth that Eddie got more popular after he died is exactly that. A myth. He was incredibly over when he was alive, and very appreciated by the fans. There's even been talk that at least some of Cena's push was slated to go to Eddie. He was great, and I wish there were more people in the history of this business that could own their character as well as Eddie owned his.

I've got a feeling though your last sentence has a lot to do with your feelings here. What the WWE decided to do after Eddie passed away should have literally no impact on him. He obviously had nothing to do with it. I doubt he would have minded it because it benefited both his family and a friend, but absolutely no one should look back at that and say they think less of Eddie because of what some corporation did with his name after he was dead.

I get both sides... Eddie WAS overrated in some ways, he was not as great a main eventer as is painted, but he was the "guy we needed and deserved" which was, for someone in his position the best he could ever hope for... we needed new blood in the title picture and he provided that, and that he was a credible in ring talent with an uplifiting redemption story made it all the sweeter...and more bitter when he passed.

The truth of Eddie is that for 90% of his career he was a journeyman with that one little bit of talent that elevated him above others in the same boat. It was only once he settled into his latter WCW reign and mainly WWE that the true talents really came out into the open. Even his WWE career was tainted with his demons, he got fired for DUI... but once it all "clicked" for him, it seemed to click for the fans too and that last 10% of his career almost eclipses the rest of it in total. For those last 2 years of his life Eddie was the best... not in the company but in the business... and not cos he had a "look" or great moves or even a gimmick... it was cos he'd found himself was enough the whole time... Lie, Cheat & Steal helped him but the swagger/wiggle, the joy when he'd win a big match, that he'd beaten his demons were him all the way... when have we truly seen a wrestler just be themselves and get over, and succeed... last was Bryan in the last year... not many between Eddie and him...

BUT it's wrong to eulogize him as one of the best ever... he was great, but not the greatest for much of his life... he had a brief window where no one could touch him other than his best friend, and that probably has more to do with it... he and Benoit spurred each other on at the time... it's easy to see why losing Eddie basically killed Benoit and his family...


It's natural we all look at him in rose tinted glasses cos he died young and on the roster... he probably was slightly under-appreciated in his time but so is everyone... Eddie fits somewhere in the top 50 workers of all time, probably top 25 depending on your era and your own personal criteria... he had a lasting impact in being the guy to finally put the nail in the "cruisers can't main event" coffin and had a lasting impact, albeit in death as showing the business what it didn't want to happen again... changes got made... hell perhaps the most poignant achievement Eddie made was after his death, his wife not only took a job for his deal money (which she would have got anyway) but earned her own deal and possible HOF spot one day... if Eddie meant anything to the business it was ANYONE can... Vicki kinda validated that.

On a straight ballot... Rude is ahead, Hennig is ahead, Davey Boy is ahead, Gino Hernandez, Art Barr... Eddie got the shot some of these guys didn't and made the most of it, that is admirable... but that doesn't mean he was better... just right place, right time, right couple (Benoit being the other)... it's not harsh... it's true...

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I get both sides... Eddie WAS overrated in some ways, he was not as great a main eventer as is painted, but he was the "guy we needed and deserved" which was, for someone in his position the best he could ever hope for... we needed new blood in the title picture and he provided that, and that he was a credible in ring talent with an uplifiting redemption story made it all the sweeter...and more bitter when he passed.

The truth of Eddie is that for 90% of his career he was a journeyman with that one little bit of talent that elevated him above others in the same boat. It was only once he settled into his latter WCW reign and mainly WWE that the true talents really came out into the open. Even his WWE career was tainted with his demons, he got fired for DUI... but once it all "clicked" for him, it seemed to click for the fans too and that last 10% of his career almost eclipses the rest of it in total. For those last 2 years of his life Eddie was the best... not in the company but in the business... and not cos he had a "look" or great moves or even a gimmick... it was cos he'd found himself was enough the whole time... Lie, Cheat & Steal helped him but the swagger/wiggle, the joy when he'd win a big match, that he'd beaten his demons were him all the way... when have we truly seen a wrestler just be themselves and get over, and succeed... last was Bryan in the last year... not many between Eddie and him...

BUT it's wrong to eulogize him as one of the best ever... he was great, but not the greatest for much of his life... he had a brief window where no one could touch him other than his best friend, and that probably has more to do with it... he and Benoit spurred each other on at the time... it's easy to see why losing Eddie basically killed Benoit and his family...


It's natural we all look at him in rose tinted glasses cos he died young and on the roster... he probably was slightly under-appreciated in his time but so is everyone... Eddie fits somewhere in the top 50 workers of all time, probably top 25 depending on your era and your own personal criteria... he had a lasting impact in being the guy to finally put the nail in the "cruisers can't main event" coffin and had a lasting impact, albeit in death as showing the business what it didn't want to happen again... changes got made... hell perhaps the most poignant achievement Eddie made was after his death, his wife not only took a job for his deal money (which she would have got anyway) but earned her own deal and possible HOF spot one day... if Eddie meant anything to the business it was ANYONE can... Vicki kinda validated that.

On a straight ballot... Rude is ahead, Hennig is ahead, Davey Boy is ahead, Gino Hernandez, Art Barr... Eddie got the shot some of these guys didn't and made the most of it, that is admirable... but that doesn't mean he was better... just right place, right time, right couple (Benoit being the other)... it's not harsh... it's true...

You mention how for those last couple of years, Eddie was the best in the business, and why you feel that way.

The thing is, people that do rate him as highly as they do are looking at those last two years when they do so, and not as much the time before. Is that right? Who's to say? Every single 'great' has had that period of time where they were putting it all together. Hulk Hogan didn't have millions of screaming Hulkamaniacs when he debuted. It took him several years, working in multiple territories and countries, before he put it all together.

Eddie took longer than many to get there. Part of that was his own fault... his demons as you put it. Part of that was the political nature of the business that took him a long time to get beyond.

But he did get 'there', which so very few people ever do. And people do look back and wonder how much further he would have gone since he was already 'there' when he passed.

I'm not sure what you're referring to as a 'straight ballot'. But if it means who did better?

- Davey Boy was definitely not ahead of Eddie. At his absolute peak, he was a step below the main event, unless the show happened to be in the UK, which was the only place the WWE ever used him at the top of the card. Plus his work itself? I was a fan of the British Bulldog, but saying that, he worked best with the Stampede guys he'd been working with his entire life, and his work with people outside of that group was never quite as good.
- Gino? If he'd lived, he very well could have been. But he didn't, and he passed well before he ever got a chance to realize even a fraction of his potential.
- Art Barr? Same deal as Gino Hernandez. Ironically a guy that Eddie learned A LOT from (both good and bad), but also a guy who never got the chance to realize how great he could be before he passed.
- I'm not sure if I can quite put Rude at Eddie's level, but that one's close. Rude getting his career ending back injury right when he'd put it all together like Eddie did makes one wonder how much further he could have taken it as well. For a time, Rude was the best in the business like Eddie was, but I feel that Eddie got a longer run at the top than Rude did, while Rude got more opportunity everywhere he worked to put it all together than Eddie did in all the places he worked.
- Hennig? I'll give you that one. Before his back injury, Hennig was putting up the best work in the world. He wasn't booked at the top like Eddie was, but that's just a byproduct of the time he worked in. Hennig was pretty much a generational type talent.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The guys I mention were all ahead of Eddie at various points of their careers, and had they been given the opportunities he had would have been better with them.

Davey Boy had three points where he was "at the top of his game" but wasn't given the ball. Your point about the UK is valid for the first one in 1992, had the roid scandal not claimed his job then it's very likely he would have gotten the push at the same time as Bret and their business would have become more UK centric. In 1995 when he first turned he also had that scope, his work as a heel at the time was top notch as it was in 1996... If you're comparing Eddie and Davey on most counts Davey wins... he had the look, the in ring ability with a wide range of opponents and the "it factor" he was always a main event level talent since his days as Young David in the UK, he was just not used there all the time...both had had major influence on the style of the day via the Bulldogs and Black Tiger respectively.

Eddie was a better mic worker and perhaps had the edge with the "acting" side of the business...

In the ring, I'd give it to Davey as they had very similar technical knowledge but Davey had the power game and a versatility that Eddie didn't.

When it comes to it, Davey was in the situation Eddie was in for much of his WWE run, more than capable of taking the company forward but politics and his own short temper killed Davey's chances... Eddie had similar issues but was able to reign them in enough to be given the chance.

Rude absolutely was better than Eddie, even in 1989 but most definitely by the time he was injured. By the time Eddie had the belt, Rude was his most direct comparison... the "swagger/wiggle" was almost Rude's, the Latino Heat side of things being a "ladies man", even embracing being a cheater were all Rude hallmarks. But Rude was able to make each of those traits something verging on the offensive... Eddie was using them for acceptance in the "good to be bad" way. Eddie had a little more in the locker high flying wise than Rude, but Eddies best matches, particularly as a heel were not as strong as Rude's during that US run with Sting or against Steamboat. Even Rude v Warrior, which was kind of the equivalent of Eddie v Brock was slightly better... Rude was able to bring more out of Warrior than Eddie got out of Brock... not a knock on Eddie as the matches stand up... but Rude was better in that role than Eddie was, again, politics meant Rude didn't get the due from them.Had Rude not been hurt, I am sure he'd have returned to the WWF and had clinics with Bret, Shawn, Davey...hell maybe Eddie would have ended up there against him instead of WCW.

You have to bear in mind that if guys like Art Barr and Gino didn't die then guys like Eddie would not have gotten where they did... both would have been fixtures, meaning fewer slots for an Eddie to get through and shine.

The thing Eddie does get a lot of credit from me for is Black Tiger and that Japan period... but the reality is with guys like Hennig, Rude, Gino, Barr, Pillman alive and not hurt... Eddie would have had to come over AS Black Tiger or a similar masked character to get the chances. Their injuries/deaths opened up the market just enough for him to get in, get over and get his chance ultimately.

Like I said, easily a top 25-50 worker, depending on how far back and where you rank... but it's hard to say he was better than a lot of the guys who didn't get the chance...he was just better at taking that chance... and for that all to brief spot, he did make it to be the best in the business... but it's wrong to say he was always there or destined to over others.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I'm curious here. Outside of the Stampede crew, who would you consider to be this wide range of opponents you consider Davey Boy to have done great work with? Outside of Shawn Michaels, I really can't think of anyone.

Don't get me wrong. I was a fan. I just think you're kinda doing exactly what people are accused of doing for Eddie. Overrating him somewhat.

92 was probably the best period for the Bulldog. I wouldn't say that his heel work in 95 and 96 was best in the business level like we were talking about with Eddie's final 2 years. 95 and 96 were the years of Diesel and HBK. Two years where the WWF didn't do the greatest business, and one of their big problems during that time was they didn't have the strongest heels to put up against their two babyface champions. Davey Boy worked with both of them during that time, and didn't really help anything. His big matches with them at the time were on the B shows. Granted, both Diesel and HBK were more inclined to work with their friends at that time, but still both were friendly with Smith at that time too, so it's not like he was being shut out by them.

I'll agree to disagree about Rude. It's close between the two. I just think Eddie comes out a little better (and again, I was a big Rude fan).

It very well may have been true that Barr and Hernandez would have had careers and bodies of work that eclipsed Eddie, Rude, Bulldog, Perfect, Hart, Michaels, Austin and everyone in between. But unfortunately in both cases... we never got to find out, because they passed away before they could even begin to unleash their full potential. It`s also true that in both cases they may have never reached their potential and just wasted away. It`s not like they wouldn`t have been the first to do so. Bear in mind the reason both of these men passed away so young.

I`d put Barr`s peak as that last match of his I posted earlier in this thread. It was an amazing match, but for as good as Barr was in it... Eddie also carried his own end magnificently. The thing there... is that looking at that match, and then Eddie`s later work a decade later, and it`s night and day. Eddie got so much better after that.

As for Gino? I'd put his best work as the Chris Adams blinding angle... and well that was great, Eddie had a far greater body of work... naturally, but we simply don't know how much better Gino would have gotten. It could have been that he either doesn't break through because he was so much like Tully Blanchard, or he simply would have had the same type of career Blanchard did. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I wouldn't put Tully at Guerrero's level either.

You say it's hard to say if he was better than those who didn't get the chance? I say it's hard to say that those guys were better, because it's complete guesswork how they would have fared if given the chance. We at least know how Eddie did.

I also disagree that he only got his chance because all these guys you mention died or got hurt. He had talent. He had perseverence. He was connected through his family. He would have got his chance no matter what, and he would have made it just the same when he put it all together, just like you said earlier.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

Eddie was so loved because his passion for entertaining the crowds and his love of his craft was unrivalled. He gave 100% every time he stepped through those curtains, even when he was in excruciating pain. He had a natural charisma that nobody could deny, and he was a joy to watch.
His "Lie, Cheat and Steal" gimmick was fantastic, and ground-breaking. He took what was essentially a page from the heel play book, and became one of the most (actually, THE most in my opinion) entertaining baby face characters to ever perform in the WWE. My favourite Eddie moment, though, has to be WM 20 when he and Chris Benoit (extinct to many, but never to me) stood tall as the two Heavyweight champions at the end of the show.