Best Crime Or Mob Film Of All Time

[Dave]

2011 Zonie Awards

Nominees For Best Crime Or Mob Film Of All Time

Goodfellas

Pulp Fiction

The Godfather

The Godfather 2

Scarface

American History X

The Untouchables

Heat

LA Confidential

The Usual Suspects

Reservoir Dogs

Casino

City Of God

Ocean's 11

The Shawshank Redemption

*discussion will be open until Monday, May 23rd, on which date the polls will open and voting will be permitted. No spamming, no flaming.


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[LSN80]

American History X is my choice. Truth be told, its not even my favorite movie on the list, but it's the best choice here. It has a little bit of everything in the way it touches you, making it a very though provoking film. It's tough to assign a genre to the film because it's more then a crime story, action movie, or a drama, rather, it's a humanistic thriller. What it is about, is the battle over ourselves. Also, it contains one of the most goriest scenes I have ever seen, but the violence is far from gratuitous. It only adds to the brilliance of the movie.

For this one movie, its hard to find someone who displays the wild but common complexities within people than Edward Norton. The range he shows here is astounding in what I believe was only his fifth movie. Norton plays Derek Vinyard, a skin head that realizes through cruel yet necessary events in his life that he has gone down the wrong path. When he comes out of jail he attempts to stop his brother, played by Edward Furlong, from going down the same road he had done. But despite all his efforts, some things just seem to be inevitable. Avery Brooks also gives a great performance as Derek Vinyard's former teacher and now principal of his former school. His words may not be of the most inspiring, but his actions and messages sent across are subtle yet strong and to the point.

Norton's performance though wasn't just about range, but exploring different dimensions of life. Whether it proved to be psychological, social or even political on a certain level, it's a transforming performance that reveals something mind blowing and eye opening. That we, and this includes anyone, can take a devastating turn in life no matter how intelligent or thoughtful we are. That the person that truly determines the outcome of one's life is yourself, whether it is good or bad. Norton's realizations aren't through teachings such as the ones that got him in jail, but they are through the events in the time he spent in jail. He saw the truth for himself realizing then what is false and what is real. Truth be told, the concept of a reformed neo-Nazi is so intriguing that it's a wonder there haven't been more movies on this topic.

The screenplay written by David McKenna is about as versatile as the performance Norton gives. Not only because of the Derek Vinyard character but because of the characters involved in his life. For example, the root of his evil did not come from the murder of his father but rather his father himself. Through just a conversation at breakfast did his negative thoughts get really embedded, which eventually lead to said thoughts dramatically taking over his mind and way of life. Only when his father got killed did these negative thoughts seem justified. The way this screenplay and direction was able to display this message in just a plethora of other underlying tones was spectacular.

What makes this movie great though is that you can truly find yourself in the messages delivered. As much as the main character might not seem relevant or connected to many people, it's through his emotions and functioning of his mind that all of us are able to connect with. Yet what makes a movie great is not simply the message or messages sent across, but how powerfully they are delivered. American History X delivers its multiple and intertwining messages about as powerfully as I've seen from a film, while remaining true to the idea of being a crime drama, so it will get my vote.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Alas, I wish I'd mentioned American History X in the most overrated category.

I've never participated in a shoot out of any kind. In real life that is, I've killed thousands on the Playstation. But with my limited knowledge and experience of what an armed robbery might be like I'd imagine that Heat is about as close to reality as it can get. That film features the last great performances from DeNiro & Pacino, Kilmer has never been better, overall its a great ensemble piece.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Best Crime Or Mob Film Of All Time

Goodfellas - This is the film that will more than likely get my vote. It took all the glitz and glamour people associate with the Mafia, and flushed that right down the toilet. It told a clear story with some of the best dialogue I have seen on screen. The casting was flawless, and the audience isn't supposed to like Henry Hill.

It was honest in regards to what these people are all about, and that wasn't common practice among mob films. Cagney films (The Public Enemy, White Heat) were all quite honest about the main character, but in the 40 or so years between White Heat and Goodfellas, the main character in this type of film would eventually be painted in some sort of positive light. This film didn't try that, and is better because of it.

Pulp Fiction - I really liked this movie, but it doesn't stack up against a lot of these films. Tarantino always does a great job with dialogue, and this is probably the best example of that (along with Jackie Brown).

The Godfather - I won't pretend to know what like inside of the Mafia was like in 1945. I have studied the Mafia, even took a history class about it (crazy, I know). However, the portrayal of the Mafia in this film has always struck me a bit too classy. Too proper, maybe. One of the best films I have seen, no doubt, but I have a hard time ranking it above Goodfellas.

The Godfather 2 - In my opinion, it's better than the first entry. Telling two stories, side-by-side, gave this film a different feel than the first. I don't think the characters are as great as they were in the first, but you had better actors playing those characters in just about every spot (DeNiro and Brando broke even, in my opinion). Better dialogue, and more realistic. One of my personal favorites.

Scarface - A real, gritty tale of cocaine trafficking. Probably not as great as most make it out to be, but I love the fact that it doesn't feel like it lasts nearly 3 hours. It moves, moves, moves. Great pacing. Not among the top titles in the genre, but damn good.

American History X - Good, but not great. Not even close. Norton was probably better than he ever has been, but then what? If he had not been in that film, I doubt it would be thought of the way it is right now. Again, a good movie, not great.

The Untouchables - Another film which receives a lot of love, and I'm not sure why. I enjoyed the film, but it had a campy feel to it. The scenes with DeNiro didn't, but everything else seemed a bit light to me. Costner did a nice job of making me root for him, but I think this film is highly overrated.

Heat - Best film about bank robbery you're ever going to see. While possibly being a cheap trick, keeping DeNiro and Pacino separate built up a form of tension that probably wouldn't have been there had they been featured together more often throughout the film. Pacino was particularly good, with the whole crumbling family scenario working well as a subplot. DeNiro and Kilmer were also a hell of a team, with Kilmer nearly stealing the entire show. I wish he had been featured a bit more. Great film, huge improvement over the original.

LA Confidential - I have only watched bits and pieces, and I'm not sure why, seeing I have really liked each piece I've seen.

The Usual Suspects - Great, great ending. However, if not for that ending, I'm not sure people would still be talking about this film. Solid, nowhere near great.

Reservoir Dogs - I wish crime and gangster films had been separate categories, mainly because films like this and Heat will never take out The Godfather, or Goodfellas. I really like this movie, as it feels less campy than anything else from Tarantino. I still feel this is the most realistic film he has done, easily.

Casino - A personal favorite, but not as great as I thought it would be. The dialogue is on par with Goodfellas, but the story is nowhere near as interesting, and I think that has a lot to do with the focus being on the characters as opposed to what was happening in Vegas. Love this movie, but not a great film.

City Of God - Still haven't gotten around to seeing this film.

Ocean's 11 - Remake or original??

The Shawshank Redemption - I don't see this being in the gangster/crime genre, so I won't bother with my thoughts.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

I want to vote Pulp Fiction because it's probably my favorite movie on the list; but I don't at all think of it as a Crime/Mob movie, I mean obviously it's a movie built on crime, but I just don't think of it as one.

On second thought, fuck it, Oceans 11 is on this list, I'm voting for Pulp Fiction..... when the polls open.....obviously; but if anyone wants to convince me otherwise in the meantime I'm all eyes.

 

[Ming]

You know SSC, I want to vote Pulp Fiction too, It's my favorite on the list...BUT.

Goodfellas is simply too good not to vote for. Godfather 1 & 2 are epic but Goodfellas is much more realistic. After watching Goodfellas, Casino just seemed far too similar but nowhere near as good, it dragged on a little and the story along with the characters for that matter are simply not as good.

I'm voting Goodfellas when the poll comes. I only prefered Pulp Fiction ever so slightly to Goodfellas because it's more fresh in my mind(saw it for the very first time only 2 weeks ago) plus it had Samuel. L. Jackson who I loved and I'll admit I'm a bit of a Tarantino fanboy.

 

[ShawnDiscipleSmith]

I'll also be voting Goodfellas. Just hit a raw nerve with me, every aspect of this movie was incredible. A great cast in Liotta, De Niro, Peschi and more. I would rank Goodfellas as one of the best films Ive ever seen of any genre. Others come close, Pulp Fiction, Scarface and American History X are great but I'm sure I'll be voting Goodfellas.

 

[JWGunslinger]

How the heck is The Departed not on this list? Aside from that I would have to say American History X.
This movie although it was very brutal, was very moving. It is a very powerful film and it really makes you think about life and the mistakes that people make.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I love American History X, it is one of my favourite films but I do not think it fits in with the catagory being discussed here.

I am going to have to vote for either Goodfella's or Scarface. Both are absolute classic movies with great casts and roles which have made an actor. Liotta and Pesci in Goodfella's are phenomenal, De Niro too and Scarface made Al Pacino into a superstar. I don't think there is much that could improve these movies.

I love how in each film you see the initial success of the gangster, becoming a big shot and becoming more and more powerful before it all comes crashing down. I think Scarface is a slightly better example of this as you see Montana coming up from the gutter to become an all-powerful drug lord with his mansion and mountains of cocaine, but then becoming too greedy and it all collapsing round him.

I remember the first time I saw Scarface...it blew me away, I loved it. The shootout at the end remains one of my favourite scenes in any film, and I still have a framed picture of Tony Montana on my wall. For that reason, I am voting Scarface

Agree, or you can say hello to my little friend...and I don't mean my penis....that is not little...

 

[JGlass]

American History X is my favorite movie of all time, but why is it in this category? Just because a crime happened in the movie does not make it a crime film. Would you classify The Fighter as a crime film because Dickie goes to jail? I wouldn't put Shawshank Redemption in this category either, as it's about the characters, not the crime or even the prison break.

I don't much feel like breaking down each movie right now, but I'll give my take of course. I would love to see LA Confidential win, but it would seem silly to have it beat either Godfather film or Pulp Fiction. It's a very underrated film, LA Confidential, but it's not in the same league as any of the other three films I mentioned.

I'm not sure which of the three I named I will vote for, but I'm leaning towards The Godfather right now. I'll definitely be monitoring the debates in here to help me make a decision.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Yeah, there are some sketchy additions on this poll. Shawshank occurs in prison, but its more of a drama than a crime. And honestly, I think the fact that it is on a poll that will be dominated by Godfather and Goodfellas screws Shawshank out of a shot at the Best Overall, since it cannot be in more than one poll and won't make the top 2 here.

American History X is a story about Hate Crime. It doesn't fit the mold of a crime drama the way Casino or Goodfellas does, but I guess it holds. I'd have rather seen Bugsy and Mobsters on here, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Post]

I leaning toward The Untouchables. Costner and Connery were both amazing in this film. I enjoy period pieces and felt that this film gave a great representation of life during the prohibition era.

Plus, Connery had some awesome lines.

"What's the matter? Can't talk with a gun in you mouth?"

"They send one of our's to the hospital, we send one of their's to the morgue!"

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'd have rather seen Bugsy and Mobsters on here, but that's neither here nor there.

My hatred for Mobsters has driven me to post again. Crime/Gangster is my favorite genre of film, so I feel the need to nominate two films which (I believe) should replace Shawshank Redemption and American History X. And no, I'm not calling for these films to be replaced, just throwing out my opinion.

White Heat (1949) - When gangster films attempt to make the audience fall in love, or sympathize with the main criminal, I literally cringe. It's unrealistic, almost fantastical. The entire idea behind the gangster film was to show just how awful and brutal these people are. These people caused a lot of problems in 20's, 30's and beyond, and the problem was real (still is, actually). You're not supposed to feel for them, you're supposed to feel for those they hurt. Here lies my biggest complaint with films like Bugsy and Mobsters. They had not a realistic element to them, and terrible people were made to look like heroes. White Heat didn't take the easy way out.

Cagney is the man, plain and simple. This guy, no matter how famous he had become, forces you to hate his guts. The character Cody Jarrett never attempts to persuade the audience to his side. Jarrett isn't someone you identify with, unless you're completely insane. You may find yourself rooting for the bad guy, but you never fall into the trap of believing he isn't a terrible human being. It's one of those old movies, so I doubt many will run out and rent the film. You should, you'd love it.

Mean Streets (1973) - The best Martin Scorsese film no one has seen. Also, probably the best Robert DeNiro performance no one has seen. This film is all about acting, and story, which makes me happy The performances are raw, and the dialogue is the same. Nothing feels manufactured, almost as if you're watching a documentary. DeNiro is easily the best part of this film, playing the wild, stupid, immature Johnny. I hate to be redundant, but it's a very raw performance, totally effortless, which to me, is the best form of acting on screen. DeNiro alone is reason enough to check this out.

I come off as a bit of a film snob, and I don't mean to put anyone down, or act as though I'm better. But, I feel strongly about film, this genre in particular, and wish anyone with a similar interest would check out the best it has to offer.

Other notable films from the genre, off the top of my head (would come up with many more if I weren't feeling so lazy): The Public Enemy, Menace II Society (easily the best "gansta" film), The Departed, Once Upon a Time in America, State of Grace, Miller's Crossing, Sexy Beast, Layer Cake, Billy Bathgate, Road to Perdition, Eastern Promises, Mafioso, The Roaring Twenties, Infernal Affairs, Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai, King of New York, Prizzi's Honor, The Cotton Club, and The Pope of Greenwich Village.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Goodfellas, The Godfather, Godfather 2, Scarface, Casino
I know that these films and their genre are VERY popular but I have never been able to get into the organised crime scene because I generally hate the characters contained within. If forced to work out why, I'd probably put it down to growing up in a country were to many young men on both sides of the 'religious divide' have gotten swept up in the alleged romanticism of organisations like the IRA or the UVF. The recent rise of dissident republicans is also figured to have some degree of support from young Roman Catholics due to some misguided nostalgia for the days of the Troubles, and the fact that they never even experienced the, not so rosy, reality.

Pulp Fiction
Great movie but for some reason I just never think of it as a great example of this genre. Vincent and Mia comes across as a fucked up rom-com. Butch and Marsellus is 'Deliverance' in the city. Vincent and Jules is a twisted variance on the buddy film. I just couldn't pick it as being the greatest example in this descriptive.

American History X
Again, I have trouble associating it within the parameters of the category. Social commentary would be the area I'd drop this under rather than crime.

The Untouchables
Strangely underrated film given it's great cast. The only reason I might put forward is that it isn't really a gritty film, it has a slightly sanitised feel.

Heat
Brilliant show with a fantastic heart to it, if I didn't love LA Confidential so much, this would get my vote.

The Usual Suspects
Another fantastic film but again falls shy of LAC for me. I'll give the reasoning in my comments for that film.

Reservoir Dogs
Also brilliant but suffers in the nitty gritty of budget restriction, almost all of the film plays out in one place (the warehouse). Quite famously referred to as the heist film were we never see the heist.

City Of God
Starting to tire of ways to say how good a film is, but this one falls in the same jurisdiction. However, it falls under the same criteria as Suspects in my eyes.

Ocean's 11
Phew, don't consider this great. It's okay, but a wee bit too self congratulatory for my tastes.

The Shawshank Redemption
Possibly the greatest film all time but, as it's about an innocent man, it's hard for me to regard as a crime flick.

LA Confidential
This wins for me. Crowe, Pearce, Spacey, Basinger, Cromwell and DeVito are uniformly fantastic; given that only Spacey had any real momentum coming in, this was a fantastic achievement looking back. The script was tight, the characters were 'real' and the twist is as good as the Usual Suspects for me (I'm not even going to put it in spoilers for fear of anyone checking it out before watching the film). The following spoiler is on why I'll always prefer it over Suspects and God. Again, I don't want to ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it (or, in fact, the other mentioned shows) and this might take away enjoyment for first time viewers.

Spoiler

Scumbags come out unpunished in the first two films despite the efforts of the good guys, the good guys win out in LAC. I know that bad guys win in real life but as I'm even more unhappy about that, I don't regard that as a great reason to vote for a film.

 

[gd]

Pulp Fiction, bitch. Who gives a shit how it fits the category, it's the best movie evah. Sammy Jackson and Travolta and uber sexy in it and it is pure entertainment throughout. And Christopher Walken talking about sticking a watch up his ass? Pretty good stuff. Not sure what else there is to say other than it's a pretty motherfuckin' good movie, bitch.