Bigger fan base? USA or UK?

[The Pizzaman]

The main points are that the UK and European fans follow and enjoy WWE events more than US fans. Now Im not dissing the US fans but you have more sports interests then the UK. You have basketball, baseball, American football and other sports regularly hosted in the US which you can easily get to without going overseas to watch. There are hundreds of WWE events all over the states and yet in the UK there are very few. The UK fan base has to watch on tv or got to the states to watch Wrestlemania, Royal Rumble, Survivor series and Summerslam as well as the other PPVs. Yet there is always UK fans that travel to these events to be part of the magic that they provide. The question is, Where is the bigger fan base and are the UK and European fans being short changed. The WWE Universe stretches further than the States and Canada and that means that the WWE needs to include us UK fans and give us the chance to host a major WWE event. Please dont just say USA or UK as it does not explain why you think that.

 

[Tastycles]

5 million people watch Raw every week in the United States, about 1.5% of the population. 100,000 people watch Raw every week in the UK, about 0.1% of the population. Americans spend more on wrestling per capita, more people buy PPVs, more people go to wrestling events. The WWE comes to the UK twice a year and almost never sells out an arena. By any measuring stick whatsoever the US audience is bigger, both in terms of percentage of population and in raw figures, and it's not really open for discussion.

 

[The Pizzaman]

Sure I agree with you that people in US spend more on watching wrestling than us because there are more events in states. The WWE comes to the UK only twice a year. And they do sell out events over here. I know as I've been to many. The WWE universe is a big place and you can guarantee that if there was a main PPV in the UK it would sell out as well. The UK is a small country compared to the US and yet, There are millions of WWE fans here who would love to go to Wrestlemania, Summerslam, Royal Rumble and Survivor Series as well as the others but cant as they cant travel to the States to watch. For myself and partner to travel to say Wrestlemania it would cost way more than I could afford and most other UK and european fans would agree too. Its not that we are are not big enough fans but simply put, cant afford it. WWE should include the entire WWE universe and allow at least 1 main PPV per year to be outside of the states. Even if not Wrestlemania, Then the rumble or even survivior series. Summerslam 92 at Wembley stadium sold out and he UK exclusive events sold out too. If I had the money to go to an event in the states I would be on the first plane out there but I also would like to know that the WWE loves the pound as much as it loves the dollar so why not give the UK fans a taste of the big events and there would be even more UK fans, more money in the WWE purse and it would be good for everyone. Or is it the fact of because its "American Wrestling" that it stays in America?. Population has nothing to do with it as we also include Europe too which is the third largest continent.

 

[Tastycles]

It doesn't sell events here out at all. Every single TV taping in this country for at least two years has been heavily tarped, there just isn't the audience. Summerslam sold out in 1992 is because the British Bulldog was about fifty times more popular than William Regal is today. Even if every single person who watched Raw every week in France, Germany and the UK turned up, they still wouldn't fill a stadium of the size they use on WrestleMania.

Population has everything to do with it, because it's about percentage interest. Europe has 400 million people and less than a million WWE viewers, the USA alone has 5 million viewers from a population of 300 million. Even if you completely ignore al of the practical arguments against having Mania here - i.e. it being at a stupid time for the main audience, there's no argument to having it here. The combined audience of the last tour to Europe - which had only two sellout events, in the smallest two arenas, was 76,883, and that took in countries from the UK to Turkey, which is about the same as a WrestleMania audience. If we assume that the best place to have it would be in the middle of Europe, lets say the Allianz Arena in Munich, it would require the every single person in Europe prepared to pay to watch the WWE to buy a ticket to fill the arena.

Considering it would also involve a journey of up to 1,000 miles, wrestling just really isn't anywhere near as popular in Europe as it is in the USA.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

5 million people watch Raw every week in the United States, about 1.5% of the population. 100,000 people watch Raw every week in the UK, about 0.1% of the population. Americans spend more on wrestling per capita, more people buy PPVs, more people go to wrestling events. The WWE comes to the UK twice a year and almost never sells out an arena. By any measuring stick whatsoever the US audience is bigger, both in terms of percentage of population and in raw figures, and it's not really open for discussion.

Correct, although most WWE shows in England do sell out, or are almost sold out. The fact is there are more wrestling fans in the US and UK as it is by far the bigger country. Also, the % of the population who watch wrestling is greater than in the UK. The UK fans also do not spend as much money on merchandise or ordering PPVs as their US counterparts too, wrestling just isn't as big a part of UK culture as in the US.
Question answered.

However, the UK fans may seem more lively at events than US fans due to the fact that there is less chance to see a live WWE show in England than in America, so it is more of a special event than in the US where WWE run several shows a week. I dont think this is always the case, but if it happens then that is the reason

 

[Calderownz]

Truthfully, part of the reason the European fan base is so enthused is due to the fact that it's a rare occurrence for many of them. WWE roles around fairly seldom and that keeps the fan-base hungry.

However, American sports fans are spoiled with the amount of sports/entertainment they receive as well as the fact that the biggest wrestling promotion is so readily available to them. Still, this coupled with the size differential between the two countries (England being the country I assume you're referring to) makes it hard to compare what country has more fans. It's also subjective to determine which fans are more enthused/loyal/rabid.

Still, I will say the U.K. sells out stadiums. The American shows simply sell more overall tickets. It's a toss up when you think about it.

Both sides of it are good and good for the sport. I will say, it'd be nice to see a major PPV hosted in Europe from time to time. Just once a year would be at the very least a good start.

 

[harrythem]

They wont do another big time PPV over here because of the time difference. Back in 1992 there was no internet to spoil the PPV results so people would still have to buy it to see what happens, wouldn't be the case now.

I think TNA should do the smart thing and at least tape an episode of Impact over here when they're on tour....The could probably hold a PPV as well as, for the last few years, the Wembley Arena crowd has been the biggest TNA has performed in front of (even if last years was far from a sell out) and, as TNA fans are more savvy fans in general then WWE fans (as in smart to the business) there's little chance it'd effect they're not exactly impressive PPV figures (before anyone says we don't know TNA PPV data, if it was any good then they'd let us know without a shadow of a doubt. The fact they keep silent says it isn't that good).

US is a much bigger fan-base then us over here, we just go more mental when we see it because we see it live less often

 

[Next Jericho]

To answer the this threads question I think that the USA has a larger wrestling fan base than here in England because the two biggest wrestling companies are located in the USA so therefore the USA will and does have a larger fan wrestling fan base than the U.K does. But TNA had a larger fan base in the U.K than the WWE does just look at the television ratings for WWE and TNA in the U.K so I think that if the U.K had the same population as the U.S.A then the U.K would have a larger fan base in my option.

 

[The Pizzaman]

It doesn't sell events here out at all. Every single TV taping in this country for at least two years has been heavily tarped, there just isn't the audience. Summerslam sold out in 1992 is because the British Bulldog was about fifty times more popular than William Regal is today. Even if every single person who watched Raw every week in France, Germany and the UK turned up, they still wouldn't fill a stadium of the size they use on WrestleMania.

Population has everything to do with it, because it's about percentage interest. Europe has 400 million people and less than a million WWE viewers, the USA alone has 5 million viewers from a population of 300 million. Even if you completely ignore al of the practical arguments against having Mania here - i.e. it being at a stupid time for the main audience, there's no argument to having it here. The combined audience of the last tour to Europe - which had only two sellout events, in the smallest two arenas, was 76,883, and that took in countries from the UK to Turkey, which is about the same as a WrestleMania audience. If we assume that the best place to have it would be in the middle of Europe, lets say the Allianz Arena in Munich, it would require the every single person in Europe prepared to pay to watch the WWE to buy a ticket to fill the arena.

Considering it would also involve a journey of up to 1,000 miles, wrestling just really isn't anywhere near as popular in Europe as it is in the USA.

Now I disagree with this. You are correct when you talk about the population being bigger in the states so sure there will be more fans of WWE than here but they don't enjoy the product as much as the UK fans and heres why.
1) The USA fans have access to a lot of wrestling events and dont need to travel that far to go to an event.
2) For the reason above, That means that they have been to more events than the UK fans and are used to the atmosphere in the arena and they have already seen their favourite wrestlers before live so its not so exciting for them.
3) The UK fans are limited to events over here so when WWE does come to this country we rush to get tickets as we wont have another chance for at least 6 months.
4) If we are lucky enough to obtain tickets its most likely that its the first time we have got to see a WWE event and the first time to see our favourite superstars so the atmosphere is completely different to that in the states. The other point you make about the arenas not being sold out is also rubbish. Sure there may be empty seats in the arenas but that does not mean its not sold out. The point is that there are greedy people out there who buy tickets in bulk for profit in the hopes that there will be desperate fans who will pay over the odds for said tickets. Most of these ticket do not get sold so there will be empty seats in the arena. The event is sold out but tickets are not produced at the gate.
So to sum up, There may be more fans in the states but the quality of fans in the UK surpasses that of the USA fans and we enjoy the product so much more than fans in the states.
As for the British Bulldog being better than William Regal. William Regal has been in wrestling for over 35 years and is still doing it now and though the Bulldog was great, he was not the only reason that people went to Summerslam.

 

[Tastycles]

Now I disagree with this. You are correct when you talk about the population being bigger in the states so sure there will be more fans of WWE than here but they don't enjoy the product as much as the UK fans and heres why.
1) The USA fans have access to a lot of wrestling events and dont need to travel that far to go to an event.

So that means they like it less? Anyway, do you know how much bigger than the US? They have 4 TV tapings in the UK every year, and 100 in the United States. If you include 14 PPVs, that means the US gets 28.5 times more shows than the UK. The USA is 40 times bigger than the UK...

2) For the reason above, That means that they have been to more events than the UK fans and are used to the atmosphere in the arena and they have already seen their favourite wrestlers before live so its not so exciting for them.

Again, you're not really getting how big America is, are you? There are 108 cities with a population of more than 200,000. Arenas are about 10000 seats on average. We've already discussed that the US has a wrestling audience of about 5%, so that means they have 108 possible locations for large shows per year. That's more than enough variety.

The British audience is about 0.1% of the population, which means to fill a 10,000 seat arena, you need a local population of a million. Which gives you London, the North West and the West Midlands. Which is 3 possible locations.

3) The UK fans are limited to events over here so when WWE does come to this country we rush to get tickets as we wont have another chance for at least 6 months.

We really don't rush to get tickets, that's why they have to keep advertising them on TV until the day of the show, and why the shows are always heavily tarped.

4) If we are lucky enough to obtain tickets its most likely that its the first time we have got to see a WWE event and the first time to see our favourite superstars so the atmosphere is completely different to that in the states. The other point you make about the arenas not being sold out is also rubbish. Sure there may be empty seats in the arenas but that does not mean its not sold out. The point is that there are greedy people out there who buy tickets in bulk for profit in the hopes that there will be desperate fans who will pay over the odds for said tickets. Most of these ticket do not get sold so there will be empty seats in the arena. The event is sold out but tickets are not produced at the gate.

They don't advertise sold out events.

So to sum up, There may be more fans in the states but the quality of fans in the UK surpasses that of the USA fans and we enjoy the product so much more than fans in the states.
As for the British Bulldog being better than William Regal. William Regal has been in wrestling for over 35 years and is still doing it now and though the Bulldog was great, he was not the only reason that people went to Summerslam.

The British audience may cheer more, but that's to do with the nature of the people, not their passion for the product. I've heard the same sort of reaction at non league football matches. Pissed British people just cheer at wrestling, that's what they do, they are not a more passionate audience.

 

[The Pizzaman]

I understand that the USA is bigger than the UK and they have more Fans than the UK. That is obvious. There would be more arenas to hold WWE events. Again not rocket science. Just because there are more fans in the states does not mean that the UK fans are second rate or pissed. We love wrestling and we cheer because we want to cheer our favourite superstars as much as the US fans do. Point is, the US fans get to see their favourite superstars more often and its that sole fact that makes the UK fans more passionate when we do get to see them. You also seem to forget that its not just the UK fans that is affected, There are all of the european fans as well. As for the advertising the events, WWE will have paid for a certain amount of TV time to promote the event and they will run them right up to the event happens regardless of whether its sold out or not. They are not going to take the risk of stopping announcing an event If there is a chance of seats being empty. The fans would know that it is full up be trying to get tickets and being told its sold out. You don't have stores stopping their TV commercials because their stock may run out. No, they will keep broadcasting untill the sale ends. WWE had a Major event in this country you could still guarantee that it would be a sell out as the US fans would still come to it as they are already used to travelling to live events anyway. There are arenas and stadiums in the UK that can accommodate a major event so there is no argument on that. Wrestlemania 27 is being held at the Georgia dome which is a 72,000 seater stadium but there are 4 stadiums in the UK that are bigger.Wembley stadium seats 90,000, Twickenham that seats 82,000, Old Trafford that seats 76,000 and the millennium Stadium in Wales that seats 74,500. All are capable of hosting a major event and the UK fans would happily travel to watch in any of those places. On top of that there are numerous arenas that are big enough to host major events as well. All would be a sell-out. WWE needs to include the entire universe and give every fan the chance of going to a major event whether it is a USA, UK, Asian, Australian or European fan. One more point I need to make is the time difference. Sure if they hold a major event in this country then fans in the states would have to watch it live at say midday instead of 7pm/8pm that they are used to but as PPVs are on a Sunday there would not be a major problem with that. Im also a formula 1 fan so am used to having to watch a strange times due to time difference. If I watch wrestlemania or any of the other PPVs live Im having to stay up till 4am to watch it live so there is no problem for the US fans

 

[Tastycles]

I understand that the USA is bigger than the UK and they have more Fans than the UK. That is obvious. There would be more arenas to hold WWE events. Again not rocket science. Just because there are more fans in the states does not mean that the UK fans are second rate or pissed. We love wrestling and we cheer because we want to cheer our favourite superstars as much as the US fans do. Point is, the US fans get to see their favourite superstars more often and its that sole fact that makes the UK fans more passionate when we do get to see them.

You're really not following are you. America is so much bigger and has such a bigger wrestling audience that the average fan has less access to an event. There's two shows every year in London. There's two shows every year in Dallas. Wrestling is available for people who live in Dallas as often as it is for people in London. How fucking hard is that to understand?

You also seem to forget that its not just the UK fans that is affected, There are all of the european fans as well. As for the advertising the events, WWE will have paid for a certain amount of TV time to promote the event and they will run them right up to the event happens regardless of whether its sold out or not.

1) That's not how advertising works
2) They don't advertise during commercial breaks, they insert adverts into the actual shows.

They are not going to take the risk of stopping announcing an event If there is a chance of seats being empty. The fans would know that it is full up be trying to get tickets and being told its sold out. You don't have stores stopping their TV commercials because their stock may run out. No, they will keep broadcasting untill the sale ends.

Again, that's not how advertising works, and its a shit example. A store can get more stock if it runs out, the WWE cannot add seats to an arena.

WWE had a Major event in this country you could still guarantee that it would be a sell out as the US fans would still come to it as they are already used to travelling to live events anyway. There are arenas and stadiums in the UK that can accommodate a major event so there is no argument on that. Wrestlemania 27 is being held at the Georgia dome which is a 72,000 seater stadium but there are 4 stadiums in the UK that are bigger.Wembley stadium seats 90,000, Twickenham that seats 82,000, Old Trafford that seats 76,000 and the millennium Stadium in Wales that seats 74,500. All are capable of hosting a major event and the UK fans would happily travel to watch in any of those places.

If you need US fans to fill the audience, why not have the show in America, where they actually live? If the British audience can't fill the Hallam FM arena, they aren't going to fill Wembley. They stopped doing the UK PPVs becaus enobody was going and nobody was buying it. Why on earth would they now risk a major show here, with less of an audience?

On top of that there are numerous arenas that are big enough to host major events as well. All would be a sell-out. WWE needs to include the entire universe and give every fan the chance of going to a major event whether it is a USA, UK, Asian, Australian or European fan. One more point I need to make is the time difference. Sure if they hold a major event in this country then fans in the states would have to watch it live at say midday instead of 7pm/8pm that they are used to but as PPVs are on a Sunday there would not be a major problem with that. Im also a formula 1 fan so am used to having to watch a strange times due to time difference. If I watch wrestlemania or any of the other PPVs live Im having to stay up till 4am to watch it live so there is no problem for the US fans

So if the WWE have one fan in Eritrea, they should put WrestleMania there, despite the fact that they would be alienating the rest of their audience? Formula 1 is free to watch, and the entire finances of the FIA do not rely on the number of people who pay to watch it. If putting it on at 12 meant that 100,000 people didn't buy it, because they were at church, or doing something on the Sunday, then it means the WWE loses out on $50 million. Then when you consider the expense of putting the biggest show in a foreign country - all the extra employees, transporting the equipment etc. -then it becomes a bigger and bigger financial burden for the WWE, and for what purpose? So that a small audience can be catered for? Ridiculous.

More people watch the WWE in the United States than the rest of the world put together. It's second largest audience is Canada, a country that is near enough to not be a financial burden and which therefore gets WWE events. There is no fiscal justification whatsoever for the WWE, a business, to put a major how on in Europe, and until there is, it will never happen.

 

[The Pizzaman]

The USA has 14 PPVs, around lets say 50 episodes of Raw, 50 episodes of Smackdown and numerous house shows per year and you are saying that the US fans still have the same chances of seeing a WWE event as the UK fans do? What utter crap!!! 114 televised shows and at least 270 house shows in the States compared to 2 Live Raw, 2 Live Smackdown in the UK. now its not as if they don't know the cost of shipping equipment here. I'm not saying to bring Wrestlemania here as that as much as it would be the greatest thing to happen, the numbers simply would be too high and I agree with you on that. There are however other PPVs that could be brought here like Summerslam or the Survivor Series which are not as big. The time difference may be an issue but for god sake, one PPV would not put a dent in WWEs purse. The reason for that would be the UK fans wanting to go to the event and buying the merchandise. And as for for a small audience, well again I have to disagree. It would certainly make money rather than losing and more fans would be joining the WWE universe.