Cena heel turn and why I don't think it's necessary.

CenaFan

Occasional Pre-Show
I know a lot of Fans are craving for a Cena heel turn. Personally as a Cena fan, I would mind him being heel. I just don’t find it necessary that’s all. His face run, to me anyways isn’t the issue. It’s his gimmick/character.

They can change his character and gimmick without turning him heel. Look at when he was with the rapper gimmick. I think what Cena need’s is somewhat of a character like Orton.

I read on other forums on how some posters feel as if just because Cena is getting chants and booed when he is face that he need’s to be changed.

I simply don’t see it the way some do. I look at it as a business perspective. As long as Cena is bringing in the cash, WWE will never see a issue with him. Being booed and cheered to me isn’t a big deal.

It really bothers me that WWE portrays his character/gimmick as a kid’s gimmick, when we all know that there are tons of adults that are into Cena as well.

I say change his gimmick/character first and see how that goes and then decided from there whether or not you want to turn him heel.

I simply think just a character change will do the trick.
 
Either way he couldn't sell a match. He will never have a heel turn, the kid fans wouldn't be at the shows anymore. Which Vince doesn't want apparently, because they are 3/4 of the income the WWE makes.
 
^^

I disagree with you, if he wasn't able to sell a match, he wouldn't be where he is. Cena Fan base does not consist of just kids.
 
He is there because he makes money. Everyone knows that, if he didn't he would probably be in TNA. For example: The WM match with Batista, he got about 2-3 Batista Bombs, and after he wins he jumps right up like nothing happened. And there is the bias that comes with being a Cena fan, his fans are teen girls and little kids. That isn't hard to figure out considering all the merchandise he sells.
 
Yet, there is no bias when it comes to guys like you?

I'm not a kid. However Cena, does Sell, his moves.

There are a lot of wrestlers who does that, not just Cena. That does not mean that they can't sell a move.
 
People just want him heel becasue thye hate how overrated he is and how little kids think he's the best wrestler ever. For me, I respect cena, he ahs all my respect i just find him annoying as the WWE superstar cena, but honestly the face gimmick is working jsut fine with him, and him turning heel is unnesesary. I mean cena heel? thats practically unimaginable to me. I think him turning heel would be almost as big as hogan's heel turn in WCW, except idk how cena's turn would get pulled off
 
I am no hater, nor a mark, I didn't say moves which I won't go into because that will set you off.....he can't sell matches is what I am saying.
 
For example: The WM match with Batista, he got about 2-3 Batista Bombs, and after he wins he jumps right up like nothing happened.
This has more to do with the current standard for "good wrestling" than it does Cena. The current climate begs for matches with tonnes of finishers and kickouts. Angle-Styles did this endlessly in some of their supposed "classics" earlier this year, Shawn Michaels and Undertaker perfected this dark art in their WM25 match, and I could go on and on. Chastising Cena and Cena alone for this is absurd.

And there is the bias that comes with being a Cena fan, his fans are teen girls and little kids.
You're going to talk about bias and then drop a doozy like this?

FACT: I'm an adult male Cena fan.

FACT: I know many adult male Cena fans.

FACT: You're spreading a stereotype straight out of the 2006 smark playbook makes you look bad. Modern day Republican party bad.

That isn't hard to figure out considering all the merchandise he sells.
What in the bluest of fucks are you talking about?

I see many people in crowds at WWE shows in orange Cena shirts. You're talking shit.

Anyhow, as to the topic posed, altering Cena's gimmick alone at this point shouldn't change how people react. In my opinion, the things he does to people's brains at this point is just to finely ingrained. It won't change the fact that people find him to be a bad wrestler, a corporate puppet, a poser in jean shorts, or a guy who acts street but grew up in the fucking 'berbs. They've let it go on too long for what you propose to work. People's ill-informed opinions have reinforced themself ten times over.

Besides, Cena as a guy who gets mixed reactions can (and has) work(ed) as a long term champion who can work against ANYONE, be it heel or face. It's part of the magic of John Cena at the top of the card. Why mess with something like that? It's turned into a blessing.

I could go for a character change. It's been ages. But I don't think trying to get Cena a 100% positive reaction is the right direction.
 
BatistrioFlyPunt

He can sell matches. Just because you don't like someone does not mean that they can't sell matches. It makes me laugh when posters like you who claim that Cena fans are just marks and that we are biased but yet you are being biased towards him right now.
 
Like I said I am not biased, I actually used to really really like him. They over use him, that's what turned me off the Cenation wagon. He can sell some, but not all. And I really was wrong to say that all Cena fans are either "girls or kids". But I still stand my ground on the statement about the merchandise. Vince knew he could get merchandise out of Cena, so he put the championship on him. And I truly believe that's the only reason he is still the top face. It sure as heck isn't his wrestling style, that wouldn't get him anywhere.
 
That is like saying that is the only reason why they put Austin, Rock and all of them upfront because they sell merchandise. It's more then just selling merchandise and when you say that Cena can't sell just because you don't like him, then yes that is being biased.
 
Ugh, I didn't say I didn't like him, just not my favorite. And that's he can do,again if it was based on in-ring ability he wouldn't even be in the top-card.
 
First off, Coco, you got great opinions. Good response.

I have always liked Cena. As soon as he turned rapper, I said he'd be big. Now he's the biggest thing.

But personally, I don't think WWE thinks he is. And before you jump on my case, let me explain.

I really think WWE knows that Cena isn't going to be the guy to jump wrestling into what it was before. I credit Cena for bringing a new generation to wrestling, (Because face facts folks, we need to start a new fanbase, and when THEY grow mature, so will WWE) and Cena and WWE's image has been greatly increased.

I mean face facts, WWE even though was amazing in the attitude era, did NOT have a good face with the outside media due to its sex, cursing, and adult themes.

People complain about PG right now, yet when WWE WENT Mature, a lot of families who grew up on Hogan, Bret, and so forth were disappointed that it went Mature because their kids couldn't watch it anymore. But that's a different story. Back to what I was saying.

Watching WWE use Cena nowadays, I REALLY believe that they only see Cena as the FILLER until the superstar that changes everything comes around. Now I know that is the nature of the beast, but I don't think WWE has EVER been this "Plateud" as they are now. Other than Smackdown and changes here and there, Cena has been the same the WHOLE time.

Why don't they change them? Because there is no one to take his place if the change fails and Vince doesn't wanna take that risk. back in the day, when Austin turned heel, they had the Rock, Jericho, Benoit, Taker, RVD, so they could change him. (Even though I thought it was a mistake)

Now they have Cena, Kofi (Which isn't too reliable and that can be WWE's fault) Orton (Which is still growing as a face, and note that i love Ortons face run as of late) Rey (Which is injured most of the time, and still is a lightweight) Edge (Who doesn't sell merch like any other face) Taker (Old) the list goes on and on.

So bottom line, In my HONEST opinion, I think WWE hasn't done anything to Cena is because they are afraid of the change failing and it causing their viewership to drop because of it. So for now, they are milking him everything he's worth. When someone comes and rivals his popularity and ALL AROUND performing with money, matches, ratings, Cena will turn heel.

But as far as now, they won't turn him. They can't... Until the next Austin or Rock comes in.
 
The irony of a devout Batista fan calling ANYONE a $hitty wrestler is pretty funny. Am I alone on that one?

Testify, brother.

Any I don't agree or disagree with Cenafan. I could honestly care less what happens to Cena's character. I don't like the guy. He is the new face of the WWE and we all have to live with it. The only thing that really bugs me here, is that Cena gets ANYTHING and EVERYTHING handed to him. He is a 9 time WWE/WHC Champion and he has been there since 2002. He is a 3 time US Champion and a 2 time Tag Team Champion. He constantly gets title shots, and I, for one, am sick of seeing him as champion. Give it to Christian, Regal, or hell, give it to Santino, then maybe Raw would be fun to watch again.

Turning on Raw to watch Cena use his 5 moves of doom, every main-event is getting old.
 
I have always liked Cena. As soon as he turned rapper, I said he'd be big. Now he's the biggest thing.

But personally, I don't think WWE thinks he is.
Agreed. If you've seen the way they've used him for the last couple years, it's clear that the WWE don't respect what they have with Cena. They did great business with him running through everyone in 2007, the best since the Attitude Era, and even had the biggest Mania ever with him as the poster boy. Fast forward a year, and he's dicking around with JBL in the undercard after Mania. A year after that, it's the same story with him and Big Show. That's fine for a guy like Triple H who helped shrink the business after Rock and Austin left, but a guy who saved the business from the harm Hunter was doing it deserves more respect than that and back to back triple threat matches at WrestleManias. Steve Austin wouldn't have taken shit like that at the height of his popularity, I can tell you this right now.

I really think WWE knows that Cena isn't going to be the guy to jump wrestling into what it was before.
If you're talking about main stream cross over appeal, who cares? Not being on the Austin/Rock/Hogan level isn't a knock against Cena. He's the biggest thing that the wrestling industry has. He's a HUGE wrestling star. People don't give that the respect it deserves. They'd rather leave him to freeze to death in the shadow of Steve Austin than give him a pat on the back for a job well done.

Watching WWE use Cena nowadays, I REALLY believe that they only see Cena as the FILLER until the superstar that changes everything comes around.
Which, as you're about to say, is just how things go. Everyone is just that guy before the next guy. But yes, I think WWE has settled on Cena being just another top guy for now rather than THE guy, despite them having a prime talent and a lightning rod of appeal who's still in his prime. I'd like to speculate that political interests are what's keeping Cena marginalized, but that's a different story. I absolutely agree that WWE doesn't know what they have with Cena right now, no matter how consistently people think he's pushed.

Why don't they change them? Because there is no one to take his place if the change fails and Vince doesn't wanna take that risk. back in the day, when Austin turned heel, they had the Rock, Jericho, Benoit, Taker, RVD, so they could change him. (Even though I thought it was a mistake)
They didn't have Rock. He was a part-timer by then and was off to film movies. Benoit and Jericho weren't considered serious options for the main event. RVD wouldn't come in for a few more months and it wouldn't be until a couple months after that before they saw how over he was. Undertaker was all they really had. So obviously I agree it was a mistake.

Where is this going?

Now they have Cena, Kofi (Which isn't too reliable and that can be WWE's fault) Orton (Which is still growing as a face, and note that i love Ortons face run as of late) Rey (Which is injured most of the time, and still is a lightweight) Edge (Who doesn't sell merch like any other face) Taker (Old) the list goes on and on.
ACTUALLY, Orton alone is probably a stronger face at the moment than ANYONE the WWF had when they made the mistake of turnin Austin. Couple that with Edge, Taker, and the ultra-over and often overlooked Rey Mysterio, and you have the makings of a nice supporting cast for Cena. Follow through with building up some new stars and maybe throw Triple H at a heel Cena for a new dynamic to their matches and you have what I consider a top-notch cast for heel Cena to run through.

I'm not seeing your point.

So bottom line, In my HONEST opinion, I think WWE hasn't done anything to Cena is because they are afraid of the change failing and it causing their viewership to drop because of it.
I will agree that they're not turning Cena because they're massive *****es who fear what the change will do to their bottom-line. Probably that more than their viewership.

However, I don't think they had a stronger case for turning Austin than they would be able to find for turning Cena.

So for now, they are milking him everything he's worth.
Not quite, as I said earlier. However, I get what you're saying. They're riding it out with him as a face for as long as the money comes in.

When someone comes and rivals his popularity and ALL AROUND performing with money, matches, ratings, Cena will turn heel.
I don't think matches have anything to do with it. They'll turn him based on money and ratings alone.

But as far as now, they won't turn him. They can't... Until the next Austin or Rock comes in.
Absurd. If they wait for a mainstream star rather than someone to take the reins from Cena as the WRESTLING star, Cena will probably be dead in the ground before he turns heel.

I think the case for turning heel in the name of freshening up the product will come eventually, and if Orton grows into the face that he should, I think the time will come sooner rather than later. If TNA have their way and gain a reputation as a must-see alternative, Cena's turn could ne necessitated even sooner as it's bound to be one of the biggest things that happen in this decade of wrestling.

I think reasoning away a Cena turn at this point is going against the best interest of the business. A gimmick change, the likes of which is proposed by the original poster, may not be as extreme as the WWE will need to freshen up the product eventually.
 
John Cena is a top guy, Vince likes him for 3 reasons, one his fans make noise, two he sells merchandise and three, McMahon likes his build and him personally. I personally think Cena is good, but not great. As a wrestler he doesn't sell when he's being beat up well, he's not terriable at it, but he's not great at it like others before him are. His promos are good as a face and a heel, not great, but good. i do agree, he needs a change though. i don't mind his gimmick, but the SuperCena gimmick and the Cena that the announcers say isn't the favorite to win a match HAS to go. Cena is not a rookie, he should be a favorite in all his matches, for example, his feud with the Big Show was REAL dull because of that. Cole would say, "how can he do this to the Big Show" when Cena's beaten the Big Show, time after time after time. Let Cena be himself basically, he's good on the mic and can get his fans behind him and at times is funny. he's no Jericho or Punk on the mic, but he's got good enough skills for me to like. Like i said, just let Cena be himself, no "fight against the odds" Cena.
 
oh yeah, also don't have John Cena beat up former WWE Champions (who are still young) like they are rookies EVER again. I HATED when WWE did that with CM Punk and Cena. Punk can wrestle a match, at least give it a good 15 minutes, not 3 minutes, it makes Punk look like he doesnt even belond in NXT, let alone a former champion. Cena can wrestle a good match (as he has shown vs. Jack Swagger) he needs a gimmick change, don't make him superCena where he can beat a former world champion like a Cruiserweight or have him fight against the odds. Have him fight a tough match and get the win.
 
Honestly, he may as well turn heel at this point. Sure, he's the champ and all and is moderately entertaining, but after Batista who is he going to face? He'll just squash punk and a Sheamus feud doesn't sound that appealing. The Cena defeating the odds thing certainly isn't bad, but it's predictable.

Cena turning heel is the one big move the WWE can make at this point that would be really intriguing to me. He's certainly good enough to play the role and would get massive heat and all that good stuff. May as well try it out.
 
The guys everyone said had the titles handed to them, had to earn it first, except for Triple H. The reason those guys kept winning is not because they just made the WWE a lot of money for the company, but it was guys that could carry the company and maintain their popularity or heat even after their title runs. The Rock and Stone Cold did not have anything handed to them and neither did Shawn Michaels, they got title reigns because they were a superstar on the mic as well as in ring. That being said, let me say that I respect Cena, but I do not like him as champion or his character. His stuff on the mic has gotten really stale because with whomever he is facing, he always says the same thing over and over again.

Does everyone really think that the kids would stop watching if No Moves McGee, aka John Cena turned heal? They wouldn't, don't forget you still have Rey Mysterio. Mysterio is basically the same thing as Cena except Mysterio is better in the ring. Also I have to agree with BatistrioFlyPunt, he can't sell and I think the fact that he can't sell annoys me the most....example, about a month ago on Raw, Cena vs. Vince McMahon. Does everyone remember, he got hit by like 5 finishers by 5 different superstars and then kicks out. How is that selling? A finisher should be exactly what the name entails, a finisher.
 
Do we really need two Stone Cold like faces? In fact didn't the WWE try this already, it was so poorly received after he attacked his tag partner that they cut it from SD.

But yeah in a way you are right.. it's because many see his character as stale and boring, the issue is there really isn't a lot of wiggle room for a new attitude. If he made a heel turn he could totally change his character (See Batista).
 
CenaFan, do you have any suggestions on what you would like to be see changed with his gimmick? Would you change looks or personality? Just curious.
I actually thought a little about this last night because with the exception of R-Truth and the now defunct Cryme Tyme, which obviously aren't in the same category as Cena, but the point is he is the only 1 who wears the jean shorts and not running around in his underwear like most everyone else. Is he trying to stay "hip" keeping the whole Hustle/Loyalty/Respect deal but staying away from the rapper gimmick or what? I mean I DO NOT want to see him come running out with some wanna be leather Batista trunks, if you know what I mean.
As you, looking at it at a strictly business perspective, he is exactly who HE needs to be. No matter the cheers or boos. And that's my humble opinion because a lot of people do make a big deal out of the PG Era and really I think that is who Cena's character is aimed at. I think the 'E' wants him to be more of a role model, if you will, for younger children. And they probably make so much $ off that merch alone that they could care less about the generally older crowd who would welcome some sort of change just to freshen things up for awhile. I mean of course we know reguardless if he is heel or not the women are going to scream when his shirts come off like usual anyway.
I take him at face value. What you see is what you get. It is what it is. And like you kind of stated also, as long as Vince sees those $$$ signs...as much as the entertainment side of me would really welcome sort of change... I don't see it happening for awhile yet. Decent thread.
 
I like the old heel Cena. The Cena that would come out and clown you through rapping. It was HILARIOUS and ENTERTAINING. It's what made him standout. Let's face it, his promos are predictable. "So and so laid me out last week. I know the odds are against me. But I will not give up or whatever. BLAH, BLAH BLAH."
But for a Cena heel turn, he's gotta do it either two ways.
1) Be the cocky heel. Kinda like the Rock and Hollywood. Who wants to hear me rap? But I think that's a missed opportunity. He needs to do this after a real big hollywood splash.
2) Go corporate. Wear a suit and tie. Explain how he fights for himself and the dollar bill. Screw the kids and screw the people. But oversell it. Drink bottles of water with the pinky in the air. Talk about drinking frappachinos in West Newberry. Have a team of lawyers escort him to the ring and read a statement from him. Throw in the quotation marks with fingers and say "like they say in the streets, my bad." Do a COMPLETE 360.
 
As long he is still over and selling merchandise to his target demographics (kids and women), there is no real reason for him to turn heel or change his character. At the end of the day, the kids who love Cena don't care what us angry message board peeps think.

Once the kids get tired of him though, that will be the time to turn him heel. And when that time comes, the legit heat he gets from older fans will be enough to put him over big time.

Its just like with Hogan: they waited until the mainstream fans were tired of the red-and-yellow good guy persona and they gave them what they wanted. And it sold like crazy.
 
If you're talking about main stream cross over appeal, who cares? Not being on the Austin/Rock/Hogan level isn't a knock against Cena. He's the biggest thing that the wrestling industry has. He's a HUGE wrestling star. People don't give that the respect it deserves. They'd rather leave him to freeze to death in the shadow of Steve Austin than give him a pat on the back for a job well done.

I don't know if you are getting what i'm saying, but what i'm saying is that WWE knows he's not the next rock/austin in terms of the way Austin turned the WWE to the masses. Ratings were HIGH. And you said who cares.. And VINCE cares. Vince cares about WWE being in the 3's in ratings.

And you're right.. Cena is the biggest star around and doesn't get respect he deserves. But face facts. 3.0's are nothing compared to the minimum of 5's they once had.

They didn't have Rock. He was a part-timer by then and was off to film movies. Benoit and Jericho weren't considered serious options for the main event. RVD wouldn't come in for a few more months and it wouldn't be until a couple months after that before they saw how over he was. Undertaker was all they really had. So obviously I agree it was a mistake

Rock went off to do A MOVIE.. WWE didn't know he'd end up leaving for good at the time, or at least as for sure as they ended up having to be. They knew he was coming back.

And the reason why Benoit and Jericho weren't considered is for that reason. They weren't considered. However Jericho was working with big stars, and delivering, even with merch sales, so IMO, back then they had at least people to be ready with when they turned Austin.

To go back on what I said, I guess you can say that now with stars like Kofi and so forth, and even the older and over faces, so i'll explain it in another light so you can see it better on my side,

Austin was a heelish face. So turning him in the attitude era might not be impactful as Cena's turn would be now since Cena's fanbase is completely different. Austin turns heel, people cheer him still because of his entertainment and the majority still loves the badass. Cena turning heel now would be a bit dangerous or too risky considering what his character is. Families will see Cena as someone not to be trusted, kids would be hurt, parents wouldn't want them to watch him, so it's back to the drawing board, which right now, Vince already is at ALL the time. I KNOW adults like Cena too, but it still is more of a risk right now.

ACTUALLY, Orton alone is probably a stronger face at the moment than ANYONE the WWF had when they made the mistake of turnin Austin. Couple that with Edge, Taker, and the ultra-over and often overlooked Rey Mysterio, and you have the makings of a nice supporting cast for Cena. Follow through with building up some new stars and maybe throw Triple H at a heel Cena for a new dynamic to their matches and you have what I consider a top-notch cast for heel Cena to run through.

I'm not seeing your point.

I'm LOVING Orton's face run right now. And I hope he gets bigger as a face. But he still hasn't proved on how well he can DRAW and his merch sales. He's still fresh. You gotta wait for him to be marketable as a face before considering him more of a stronger face than people like Jericho in the past. I'm not saying he's not, but at least we knew someone like Jericho was because he proved he was many times. Here's to hoping to a successful Orton face run.

And as I said before, Rey has had injuries for a while now, so it's hard to put the companies future in his hands.

And please.. HHH as the face against Cena? Come on... If ANYONE needs to turn, its HHH..

In the end, you said Cena not turning heel would not be good for business.. Which is basically what I said, except I think you read my post in caps lol.
 
Okay do you guys even think about cenas gimmick at all he has the character who shows the most determination out of everyone when he wrestled vince he had to show he would not let vince screw him over and that he would not give up thats why he kept kicking out of those finishers it teaches kids that they should never give up.and as far as hid mania match with batista and jumping around after the match it was simply shown as adrenalin
Because he just won his mania match against some one who was beating on him the past month and won his title back!!
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,826
Messages
3,300,733
Members
21,726
Latest member
chrisxenforo
Back
Top