Fourth Round: TLC - The Rock vs. John Cena

[Big Sexy]

You honestly want to compare Mankind to John Cena? Seriously?

You mean the same way you're comparing guys like Edge and Umaga that Cena has beaten in gimmick matches to a guy like the Rock? Beating Mankind in an I Quit match during his prime is not exactly an easy task.

and what do no dq triple threat matches have to do with a ladder match? Because they don't have many rules? It's a completely different kind of match, bro.

The Rock has been in two ladder matches and won the one that was during his prime so that is very relevant. All a TLC match is, is a ladder match with tables and chairs. During the Rock's era with all the no rule triple threat matches he was in and even normal matches, tables and chairs were common place. There was always someone going through an announce table and getting their ass beat with a chair. Judging by the 99 Rumble it's safe to say The Rock has no trouble repeatedly beating someone over the head with a chair.

The same could be said about Cena. All he has to do is keep the Rock down for a three count. And the Rock lost a street fight against Shane McMahon on Raw once. So I guess that makes this an easy win for Cena, right?

It works both ways, but you saying this is a guaranteed win for Cena is quite the bull shit statement.

This logic is very skewed. A primed Hulk Hogan-like Cena is superior over a primed 50% winning percentage, primed Rock.

The Rock was at his best in 2000 as the top face. He rarely lost then and when he did it was against big name heels due to massive interference. Cena isn't a big name heel and no one is going to interfere on his behalf.

 

[The Brain]

I have to go with Cena here. I think Rock is just as likely to loose a big match as he is to win. Rock has lost in a lot of big matches. He lost three straight WrestleMania main events. He’s been on the loosing end in feuds against Austin, Taker, Jericho, and Big Show. He’s .500 at best against Triple H, Mankind, and Angle. Cena pretty much always comes out on the winning end of his feuds. He’s has wins in five championship matches at WrestleMania including tap out wins against Triple H, HBK, and Batista. He has a winning record against JBL, Orton, Angle, Jericho, and Big Show. Cena has also beaten Umaga, Khali, and Lashley. Even though it doesn’t make him an automatic winner, his victory over Edge in a TLC match should not be overlooked. Cena’s wins are more impressive than Rock’s and he has far fewer losses. It was never a surprise when Rock lost, whereas Cena is expected to win.

Shit, was meant to vote for Cena but ended up clicking on The Rock, so if it's a draw or a point in it, please note my vote is for CENA.

The voting is close so I hope this is taken into consideration.

 

[D-Man]

Beating Mankind in an I Quit match during his prime is not exactly an easy task.

Yeah it is. All you need it a tape recorder. Lulz.

The Rock has been in two ladder matches and won the one that was during his prime so that is very relevant. All a TLC match is, is a ladder match with tables and chairs. During the Rock's era with all the no rule triple threat matches he was in and even normal matches, tables and chairs were common place. There was always someone going through an announce table and getting their ass beat with a chair. Judging by the 99 Rumble it's safe to say The Rock has no trouble repeatedly beating someone over the head with a chair.

How about this one... Cena defeated Edge in a TLC match at Unforgiven in 2006 for the WWE Championship. You know, EDGE. Still doesn't ring a bell? One of the fucking INNOVATORS of the TLC match? Yup, that's right.

/thread

VOTE CENA

 

[Big Sexy]

How about this one... Cena defeated Edge in a TLC match at Unforgiven in 2006 for the WWE Championship. You know, EDGE. Still doesn't ring a bell? One of the fucking INNOVATORS of the TLC match? Yup, that's right.

/thread

Yea, people already tried that one. Edge AND Christian as a tag team along with the fucking Dudleys and Hardyz helped innovate the match. They were all just tag team guys at this point. In singles TLC matches Edge beat a 50+ year old Flair, got completely dominated by the Undertaker until La Familia interfered and made it a 5 on 1 handicap match, and then he lost to Cena. Edge hasn't exactly been dominant in TLC matches as a singles competitor.

 

[D-Man]

Yea, people already tried that one.

Then maybe you should've listened to them. They were right.

In singles TLC matches Edge beat a 50+ year old Flair, got completely dominated by the Undertaker until La Familia interfered and made it a 5 on 1 handicap match, and then he lost to Cena. Edge hasn't exactly been dominant in TLC matches as a singles competitor.

But that still gives Cena a ton more credibility than someone that's never even stepped into a TLC match. So on one hand, you have a guy with experience in these match types. On the other, you have a guy in unfamiliar territory. It's a no-brainer, no matter what other bullshit logic you could think up that involves the Rock in ANOTHER ladder match that he had a 50% chance of winning.

It's easy to push aside and discard facts that disprove your theory in order to make you sound like you have logic. But any person in their right mind would see, plain as day, that Cena 100% has the advantage here. But feel free to keep sifting through Wikipedia in the meantime for more facts.

 

[D-Man]

I'll go even further here. I'd rather vote for a man that's beaten someone (in a TLC match) who experienced their own TLC matches in TWO DIFFERENT DIVISIONS and competed in all of them MULTIPLE TIMES, aside from someone who hasn't competed in a TLC match and hasn't even faced anyone with anywhere NEAR the experience of someone like Edge.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

I voted Rock here because my thinking is Rock was a better Pro Wrestler than Cena. I know Rock always seemed to lose on the big stage but everyone still cared about him and cheered him regardless, at least that's the way it seemed to me. It has been a few years. Cena wins almost everything and still not everyone cheers him or cares about him. If Cena lost to as many people as the Rock did I really don't think anyone would give a shit or support him anymore. To me what makes a pro wrestler great is making people care about them, Rock did that without being booked as superman, so he gets my vote.

 

[Franchize1990]

To quote Ice Cube "To me it sound like you got a little haterism in your game"

Oh right, you honestly believe Cena would be booked better than The Rock?

Well you did say the match would be at WrestleMania and Cena only has one loss there while The Rock can't say that and Cena has been pretty innovate in matches that invlove tabbles and chairs. So, I'm sure you can put two and two together.

Cena can't get any reaction.

The rest of your argument loses credibility because of this statement because now we know your spouting off some made up stuff. To say Cena can't get a reaction is like saying Taker never won at WrestleMania. Whether good or mixed, Cena always gets a reaction, usually the loudest each and every night. Here's 4 videos of that so-called "non reaction" that you claim he gets.

Just an ordinary appearance
[YOUTUBE]XIEOi0DpUNg[/YOUTUBE]

When he got drafted to RAW
[YOUTUBE]vU7lIAg2uJM[/YOUTUBE]

The Royal Rumble suprise entrance
[YOUTUBE]P3nT5GCD68Y&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

Booked as a heel in the Hammerstein Ballroom
[YOUTUBE]n-PkYVxM_d0[/YOUTUBE]

If you watch these videos and still say Cena doesn't get a reaction, you need to have your ears checked.

Not only can he not get a decent reaction for himself but he can't even get the crowd to properly boo heels he's facing.

Because haters like you, the people that still hang on and cling on to the Attitude Era and can't accept anything else past that era, are always there to boo whatever Cena does, no matter how good the match, promo or the segment is.

The Rock - out of his prime - working a crowd better than Cena ever has. But sure, believe Cena would ever be in the Rock's league Funny how HHH never got that reaction when facing Cena. Oh right, because no one gives a shit about him.

The ECW video showed how he can work the crowd. If nobody actually cared about John Cena, then there wouldn't be any signs about Cena, he wouldn't be one of the top sellers in the business, and he wouldn't be around the main event scene for most of his career.

 

[Big Sexy]

But that still gives Cena a ton more credibility than someone that's never even stepped into a TLC match. So on one hand, you have a guy with experience in these match types. On the other, you have a guy in unfamiliar territory. It's a no-brainer, no matter what other bullshit logic you could think up that involves the Rock in ANOTHER ladder match that he had a 50% chance of winning.

It's easy to push aside and discard facts that disprove your theory in order to make you sound like you have logic. But any person in their right mind would see, plain as day, that Cena 100% has the advantage here. But feel free to keep sifting through Wikipedia in the meantime for more facts.

You're a clever one aren't you? People really need to stop with this whole TLC experience thing. Maybe if I capitalize this for you it will be easier for you to comprehend. ALL A TLC MATCH IS, IS A LADDER MATCH WITH TABLES AND CHAIRS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE RING. The Rock has been in ladder matches and has used tables and chairs many times throughout his career. This isn't a match he is going to have to adjust to at all. If you wrestled in the attitude era you've pretty much seen everything from a hardcore perspective.

Now you go run along and make some more weak arguments that are easily disputed. I'm having fun making you look bad.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The one thing I agree with Sexy on is the concept of the match. Tables and chairs are there but that doesn't mean they are going to be used. I still don't get why you can pin somebody in this match but I'm not fussing.

 

[D-Man]

If you wrestled in the attitude era you've pretty much seen everything from a hardcore perspective.

STOP THE PRESSES, EVERYONE!!! The entire dynamic of this tournament has changed!!

Now hear this: According to Big Sexy, any wrestler that competed in any kind of hardcore/gimmick match during the Attitude Era is automatically a superior specimen of wrestling and can win in any environment!! Big Sexy has spoken!!

(Now, you can all listen to that bullshit statement of dribble, or you could go with my method.)

Now you go run along and make some more weak arguments that are easily disputed. I'm having fun making you look bad.

Yeah, because that last statement you made is really swaying the judges, right? In a ladder match, you need to rummage around for chairs and tables to be used. In a TLC match, they're at your fingertips. It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MATCH. But if you want to keep making dumb ass quips to try and prove to everyone that you have a shred of intelligence, feel free.

And you're making ME look bad?

Ok, so let me get this straight. In the dispute having to do with a TLC match, you're telling me that a man who hasn't even competed in ONE TLC match (but has competed in some ladder matches) has more experience and a better chance of winning over a man who WON in a TLC match against a competitor with experience in at least 3 singles TLC matches and at least 3 tag team TLC matches? And you still think you're winning this debate?

I hope open bar is included in your trip to fantasy land.

 

[Big Sexy]

STOP THE PRESSES, EVERYONE!!! The entire dynamic of this tournament has changed!!

Now hear this: According to Big Sexy, any wrestler that competed in any kind of hardcore/gimmick match during the Attitude Era is automatically a superior specimen of wrestling and can win in any environment!! Big Sexy has spoken!!

(Now, you can all listen to that bullshit statement of dribble, or you could go with my method.)

Yes, because that is exactly what I said . I stated a fact that during the attitude era hardcore matches and bending of the rules was the norm. Having tables and chairs outside of the ring during a ladder match is nothing that The Rock couldn't easily adapt to. Thanks though for completely twisting my words around and in the process making yourself look stupid.

In a ladder match, you need to rummage around for chairs and tables to be used. In a TLC match, they're at your fingertips. It's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MATCH.

Lol. Completely different? Having to take an extra 10 seconds to grab a table or chair in a normal ladder match makes it completely different? That is beyond a ridiculous statement.

In the dispute having to do with a TLC match, you're telling me that a man who hasn't even competed in ONE TLC match (but has competed in some ladder matches) has more experience and a better chance of winning over a man who WON in a TLC match against a competitor with experience in at least 3 singles TLC matches and at least 3 tag team TLC matches? And you still think you're winning this debate?

Again when did I say this? I said The Rock has plenty of experience in a hardcore environment and could easily adapt to this match. It is clear to me that you have the reading comprehension skills of a mentally ******ed third grader. Congratulations.

 

[D-Man]

Yes, because that is exactly what I said . I stated a fact that during the attitude era hardcore matches and bending of the rules was the norm. Having tables and chairs outside of the ring during a ladder match is nothing that The Rock couldn't easily adapt to. Thanks though for completely twisting my words around and in the process making yourself look stupid.

Oh, that's right. I guess I twisted plenty of your words when I hit the "QUOTE" button at the bottom of your post. LULZ

Lol. Completely different? Having to take an extra 10 seconds to grab a table or chair in a normal ladder match makes it completely different? That is beyond a ridiculous statement.

So when you have two battered opponents in the center of the ring and one of them needs to crawl out of the ring, search under the apron, grab a chair, and risk their opponent climbing the ladder for the win in the meantime, I guess that makes no difference in a match.

Again when did I say this? I said The Rock has plenty of experience in a hardcore environment and could easily adapt to this match. It is clear to me that you have the reading comprehension skills of a mentally ******ed third grader. Congratulations.

Ah, name calling. I was waiting for that. You usually stoop to this level when I spank you in these debates, Big Sexy.

But once again, just because someone is experienced in a hardcore environment, doesn't mean they are a master of all match types. If that were the case, Mankind never would've lost a match with a stipulation. But we all know he lost plenty. Just like you're losing in this debate... badly.

 

[Big Sexy]

Oh, that's right. I guess I twisted plenty of your words when I hit the "QUOTE" button at the bottom of your post. LULZ

Now hear this: According to Big Sexy, any wrestler that competed in any kind of hardcore/gimmick match during the Attitude Era is automatically a superior specimen of wrestling and can win in any environment!! Big Sexy has spoken!!

And how is that not twisting my words again?

So when you have two battered opponents in the center of the ring and one of them needs to crawl out of the ring, search under the apron, grab a chair, and risk their opponent climbing the ladder for the win in the meantime, I guess that makes no difference in a match.

I highly doubt either The Rock or Cena is stupid enough to go look for a weapon and completely ignore the other guy in the ring. The match is different then a regular ladder match but not that much different and again it is something that can easily be adapted to especially by someone like The Rock with the hardcore experience he has.

Ah, name calling. I was waiting for that. You usually stoop to this level when I spank you in these debates, Big Sexy.

Not naming calling. You really do have some atrocious reading comprehension skills. And you spanking me in any debate we've ever had is laughable.

But once again, just because someone is experienced in a hardcore environment, doesn't mean they are a master of all match types. If that were the case, Mankind never would've lost a match with a stipulation. But we all know he lost plenty.

Another thing I never stated was true. Thanks again for putting words in my mouth though.

Just like you're losing in this debate... badly.

Yes, your mind stimulating arguments of "Cena is like Hulk Hogan" and "Cena has been in ONE TLC match before so obviously he wins" are just too much for me . Please stop embarrassing yourself.

 

[D-Man]

I highly doubt either The Rock or Cena is stupid enough to go look for a weapon and completely ignore the other guy in the ring. The match is different then a regular ladder match but not that much different and again it is something that can easily be adapted to especially by someone like The Rock with the hardcore experience he has.

It happens in every hardcore match and most ladder matches. (If YouTube wasn't blocked at my job I'd show you.) There's always a spot where a competitor knocks the other down and then escapes out of the ring for a weapon. The only difference here is that the guy the competitor left in the ring would climb the ladder in the meantime.

Not naming calling.

Really?

It is clear to me that you have the reading comprehension skills of a mentally ******ed third grader

Another thing I never stated was true. Thanks again for putting words in my mouth though.

I can only make determinations from the lack of clarity in your posts. I can assure you that I'm just calling it like I see it.

My posts are clear as day:

John Cena def. Edge in a TLC match (Edge is an experienced TLC competitor; competed in at least 6 TLC matches and won them both as singles and tag competitor)
The Rock - Never won a TLC match, never competed in a TLC match

Any questions?

Yes, your mind stimulating arguments of "Cena is like Hulk Hogan" and "Cena has been in ONE TLC match before so obviously he wins" are just too much for me . Please stop embarrassing yourself.

And that's better than "DA ROCK WUZ IN A LADDR MATCH. IZN'T DAT DA SAME AS DA TLC?"

Try again.

Matter of fact, this is boring to me now. I will just say that we agree to disagree. No winners, no losers. Everyone can vote the way they wish. Hopefully, my way. But I won't reply in this thread again.

(PS: My red rep > Big Sexy red rep)

 

[Big Sexy]

It happens in every hardcore match and most ladder matches. (If YouTube wasn't blocked at my job I'd show you.) There's always a spot where a competitor knocks the other down and then escapes out of the ring for a weapon. The only difference here is that the guy the competitor left in the ring would climb the ladder in the meantime.

I'm sorry, but no way would Rock or Cena leave the ring and completely ignore the other guy in the ring with the ladder. I'd love to see you show me an example where this happened and the guy left in the ring won right there.

Really?

Yes really. Your reading comprehension is that bad.

I can only make determinations from the lack of clarity in your posts. I can assure you that I'm just calling it like I see it.

See above. My posts are plenty clear.

John Cena
def. Edge in a TLC match (Edge is an experienced TLC competitor; competed in at least 6 TLC matches and won them both as singles and tag competitor)
The Rock - Never won a TLC match, never competed in a TLC match

Any questions?

Besides the fact that the argument you presented there is a horrible way to determine the winner of this match, no questions at all.

And that's better than "DA ROCK WUZ IN A LADDR MATCH. IZN'T DAT DA SAME AS DA TLC?"

I'm glad I type just like that . My argument is based off of many things not just one.

Matter of fact, this is boring to me now. I will just say that we agree to disagree. No winners, no losers. Everyone can vote the way they wish. Hopefully, my way. But I won't reply in this thread again.

That's the smartest thing you've typed in this thread.

(PS: My red rep > Big Sexy red rep)

It really took a big man like you to red rep me for having an opinion that opposed yours. Great job proving nothing and looking unintelligent in this thread. I applaud you.

 

[Miko]

How about this one... Cena defeated Edge in a TLC match at Unforgiven in 2006 for the WWE Championship. You know, EDGE. Still doesn't ring a bell? One of the fucking INNOVATORS of the TLC match? Yup, that's right.

/thread

VOTE CENA

So, Cena with no TLC experience at all, beats Edge who has shitloads, immediately proving that experience doesnt mean all that much in these types of matches. What your saying is Rock has just as much TLC experience as Cena did when he beat a so called TLC expert.

 

[D-Man]

So, Cena with no TLC experience at all, beats Edge who has shitloads, immediately proving that experience doesnt mean all that much in these types of matches. What your saying is Rock has just as much TLC experience as Cena did when he beat a so called TLC expert.

Listen, I'm not going to argue that anyone can't win any match on any given day, because then I'd just be talking out of my ass. Can the Rock win? Sure. But the odds are against him here because of the stats that I already explained.

Ok, I'm done now.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

I see Cena as a bit of a Rock-Hogan hybrid. I like Cena, so I'm not trying to diss him, but Rock and Hogan are to of my favorite three wrestlers of all-time, and I think he pales a little bit in comparison to him. I don't think Cena would be as successful in Rock's era as Rock would be in Cena's. Further, I just prefer Rock (a,though I really do like Cena). Vote Rocky.

 

[The Deadly Viper]

I'm really glad Edge dominated a career mid carder he has a size advantage over. Cena beat an opportunist in his first TLC match. Now he is facing one of the biggest superstars in wrestling history.

Are you implying that edge is not one of the biggest superstars in wrestling history. Edge is practically the master of the TLC match and if he can beat Edge on his first go he'll have no problems with The Rock (as much as I love him)

That's more the announcers then anything. I really don't give a fuck what Michael Cole or Matt Striker thinks about a particular match up. The Rock has been in ladder matches and has been in hardcore matches. He has more then enough experience here.

Uh has The Rock been in a TLC match, I think not. So really the guy with the more experience is more likely to win. Plus as I said before Cena has beaten the master of the TLC.

Like I said before I like Cena, I just don't see anything about him that is better then The Rock. He may be equal in some things but there is nothing that stands out in his career that would entice me to vote him over someone like The Rock.

Uh he's actually won a TLC match which is what is going to count in this match. He is also the in prime Hogan of today and no matter what you say Cena would come out on top here in this matchup.

As much as I love the Rock he is going to lose this match.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Uh has The Rock been in a TLC match, I think not. So really the guy with the more experience is more likely to win. Plus as I said before Cena has beaten the master of the TLC.

You realize the hilarious contradictory nature of your statement, correct? Cena, with no experience, beat the alleged "master of the TLC match", but also you should vote for Cena because he has experience and experience will dictate a winner....yikes.

 

[Remix]

Cena's got to take this one. In Kayfabe, they've both climbed to the top of the hill 9 times, however John Cena held the title for far longer (hell in one sitting he's held the title for loinger than the Rock's reigns combined), and defended it against more people. He's also beaten Edge, the TLC master in this match type, as well as excelling in a hardcore environment. Rock's no stranger to hardcore, but Cena has him beat here.

Out side of kayfabe, the Rock was the incredably charismatic number two guy. Cena's the undisputed king of the WWE castle now. He's the WWE's biggest seller, most consistent wrestler and best draw.

Vote for the right man. Vote for Cena.

 

[The Deadly Viper]

You realize the hilarious contradictory nature of your statement, correct? Cena, with no experience, beat the alleged "master of the TLC match", but also you should vote for Cena because he has experience and experience will dictate a winner....yikes.

Lol I see what you mean there. Notice I said more likely though than definatly to win. But you know what I meant lol. Cena to win still.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

So... Cena wins this huh? Really? I'm not too upset over this. I think The Rock is 10 times the pro wrestler Cena ever wanted to be, but in this kind of match, it could be anyone's ballgame and there's really no clear cut person who would win this. Although I voted for The Rock, Cena winning this isn't terrible.

 

[TwistofRKO]

The notion that Cena's vast TLC experience, you know, 1 match, was something the Rock couldn't overcome is so stupid there are no words to possibly utter to express the magnitude of stupidity placed behind such flawed logic.

Cena won by one vote, simply because he's more recent. There's no knock on Cena, but he's in a worse era, and he'll never be the Rock. It's a generally accepted notion that he's a Rock knockoff. This is absolutely a joke. But this is the internet, and life moves on.