Goldust responds to criticism.... In the worst way possible.

[Wildcat66]

Depending on who you hear; WWE can either be doing really good or really bad. But everyone can agree on this: Fall is usually the weakest season of the WWE schedule. The NFL usurps them in the ratings, crowd attendance and ticket sales is usually down (this year has been especially bad from what we've seen) and overall: Things in WWE are usually their weakest this time of year.

Naturally, there are bound to be fans that are critical of the company and it's product during this time. This is about the most obvious thing in wrestling since the death of kayfabe.

But there are rare occasions when the people in WWE respond to the critiques. Some good, some...not so much.

As you can guess: This is one of those rare occasions. As reported by Cageside Seats, Goldust responded to what a fan had to say...and the results have been polarizing.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/9/28/16382220/goldust-twitter-message-fans-complaining

My Opinion: Before anything else, let me say that I have no problem with Goldust's opinion. (which boils down to: 'You can't always get what you want') I think sometimes fans tend to get fixated on what they want when they don't recognize that there are some things the product has that are good. (Main event scene of RAW is good, Kevin Owens is having a career renaissance and Styles proving to to be a really good U.S champion are just some examples) Some talents they want to be pushed will not get that opportunity, maybe not for the right reasons; but they are what they are and sometimes, it's for the best that they aren't.

However, Goldust went about this in the worst way possible.

I can't imagine fans actively trying not to enjoy the product: If they did, they wouldn't be watching WWE, they would be watching something else. When people watch RAW, SmackDown or even a PPV; they want to be entertained, if fans don't think they are being entertained: They won't watch. Simple as that.

This sort of argument, telling someone to 'suck it up' only serves to alienate someone rather than help. (Admittedly though, there is a way you can make it work. But it's not easy) Who knows? He might have actually chased a fan away because of his comments.

Overall, I can understand the overall message Goldust was trying to send, but the way he tried to send it was not the right way to go about it.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

I agree with Goldy here. So many of these stupid fans come and try to make the show about themselves, and try to crap on things to think they're smarter than everyone else. I hate them almost as much as I hate strawberry ice cream without real strawberries in it.

#GoGoldyGo

 

[Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer]

I agree with Goldy here. So many of these stupid fans come and try to make the show about themselves, and try to crap on things to think they're smarter than everyone else.

I totally agree with Dustin here too. At times I despise what WWE does but I usually don't come here or other wrestling sites and whine about it as much as many seem to. If you don't like what they are putting on TV take a break from watching for a month or two. I do it all the time. only keeping up by reading the results pages on Wednesday afternoon.

I hate them almost as much as I hate strawberry ice cream without real strawberries in it.

haha, made me remember the jammed radar scene in Spaceballs.
Strawberry ice cream without real strawberries insn't Strawberry ice cream in my eyes, it's just vanilla ice cream with fake strawberry syrup mixed in.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

You can't try and enjoy a product. You either enjoy it or you don't. And if you don't, you either leave it (if we're talking for a series) or you complain, because you don't really want to leave it. Of course WWE can't be 100% entertaining. Some stuff is, some stuff isn't. But what Goldust is saying is ridiculous. The entire bussiness is moving slow and Dustin wants us to "try and enjoy"? Dustin, nothing is currently moving forward. What future? The future has been coming for 3 years now.

Go on and say, if you don't like it don't watch it. Well, it's gonna happen if they continue that way.

 

[tdmoon]

Depending on who you hear; WWE can either be doing really good or really bad. But everyone can agree on this: Fall is usually the weakest season of the WWE schedule. The NFL usurps them in the ratings, crowd attendance and ticket sales is usually down (this year has been especially bad from what we've seen) and overall: Things in WWE are usually their weakest this time of year.

It's odd reading that fall is now a weak season for professional wrestling. Used to be it was a high point, with most promotions building to some of their biggest cards, many of which were held on or around Thanksgiving. The end of autumn brought us Starrcade, WCCW's Star Wars, Survivor Series, Halloween Havoc, Mid South holding big cards at the Superdome, etc.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Sure there are fans that are insufferable especially with the internet (but hey that happens not just in Wrestling) though Goldust's response does want me to bring a certain point.

Does anyone find the "If you don't like it don't watch" or "Stop complaining and enjoy the product" company line very arrogant?

I guess we should state the obvious that with the ratings and low attendance that is actually what is happening. Many are turning out of the product.

The other problem I have is that I was fan of the WWE during the mid 90's and the WWF, at the time, would never say those things to their fans. In fact WWF and even Vince McMahon encouraged the fans to speak their own mind, express themselves, and even acknowledge that they are listening to the response of the fans.

I am pretty sure that during 1997 WWF would never tell their fans to "If you don't like it don't watch" or "Stop complaining and enjoy the product".

It's actually quite sad to see how the WWF has changed their positions on fan reactions over the last 20 years. It went from "yes express yourselves" to "we want to control you and if you don't like what we present then too bad".

I agree with Goldy here. So many of these stupid fans come and try to make the show about themselves, and try to crap on things to think they're smarter than everyone else. I hate them almost as much as I hate strawberry ice cream without real strawberries in it.

#GoGoldyGo

I think you are taking the situation out of context. The tweet Goldust was a result of Twitter response from a fan. Thus this has nothing to do with a fan's reaction during an actual live event.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Depending on who you hear; WWE can either be doing really good or really bad. But everyone can agree on this: Fall is usually the weakest season of the WWE schedule. The NFL usurps them in the ratings, crowd attendance and ticket sales is usually down (this year has been especially bad from what we've seen) and overall: Things in WWE are usually their weakest this time of year.

Naturally, there are bound to be fans that are critical of the company and it's product during this time. This is about the most obvious thing in wrestling since the death of kayfabe.

But there are rare occasions when the people in WWE respond to the critiques. Some good, some...not so much.

As you can guess: This is one of those rare occasions. As reported by Cageside Seats, Goldust responded to what a fan had to say...and the results have been polarizing.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/9/28/16382220/goldust-twitter-message-fans-complaining

My Opinion: Before anything else, let me say that I have no problem with Goldust's opinion. (which boils down to: 'You can't always get what you want') I think sometimes fans tend to get fixated on what they want when they don't recognize that there are some things the product has that are good. (Main event scene of RAW is good, Kevin Owens is having a career renaissance and Styles proving to to be a really good U.S champion are just some examples) Some talents they want to be pushed will not get that opportunity, maybe not for the right reasons; but they are what they are and sometimes, it's for the best that they aren't.

However, Goldust went about this in the worst way possible.

I can't imagine fans actively trying not to enjoy the product: If they did, they wouldn't be watching WWE, they would be watching something else. When people watch RAW, SmackDown or even a PPV; they want to be entertained, if fans don't think they are being entertained: They won't watch. Simple as that.

This sort of argument, telling someone to 'suck it up' only serves to alienate someone rather than help. (Admittedly though, there is a way you can make it work. But it's not easy) Who knows? He might have actually chased a fan away because of his comments.

Overall, I can understand the overall message Goldust was trying to send, but the way he tried to send it was not the right way to go about it.

Yeah, no one ever watches the product to pick it apart.

You must be new to Wrestlezone, because that is most of the people who post here. Criticising the product, while actively watching it, so that they know what to criticise this week.

People can take or leave the product. The thing is, people threaten to quit watching all the time, but this many years later, here a lot of you are, still whining.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I wrote about this on another thread and I agree with goldust on this. They're are fans that just watch wwe because so that they can complain afterworth. They how they have fun with the wwe product. They don't really hate the product but they love to bitch about it afterworth because they think fhey know better then the peoples in charge of the company just because they read stuff on the internet and listen to podcast like THE LAW and the wrestling observer.

While I don't cares you if fans complaint about the product, that's their right but at the same time if you complaint constently about the product, why are you still watching. You could be watching any other product the fit more your taste. So go and stop wasting your time on watching a product that you don't like and go watch somethimg you will actually like.

 

[Dave]

Truth be told, I've stopped watching the TV shows every week. I still watch highlight shows on YouTube but that's about it. I watch the PPV's on the Network too, I guess. But the fact of the matter is that the WWE seems content on being boring at this point in time. There are some good things going on but it definitely seems, at least to me, that the WWE realise that autumn is their weakest time of year and are content with allowing that to be the trend. Instead of surrendering in the ratings to the NFL, the WWE should be trying to wrestle some of those fans back (no pun intended). There was a time when Raw was genuinely unmissable. And this is not a post pining for the Attitude Era to return. This is more me realising that I have been missing Raw and Smackdown for the last month or so and I don't feel as though I have missed much.

As far as Goldust goes, I respect his opinion. He is right in what he says, it is a TV show and you don't always get what you want. But the fact of the matter is that, like all other TV shows, you can be cancelled if people stop watching your programming. The WWE are a long way away from that point but if their live show tickets are anything to go by, it might be in the pipeline. Goldust has to remember that their needs to be a connection between the fans and the performers. Without one, the other will cease to exist.

 

[JJohns]

What people forget about the WWE product is that it's no longer just about fans. The average fan, attending a show, will plop down between $20 and $100 to get a seat, and add another $100 in Merchandise Sales. We will say the average family of 4 will provide WWE with about $300 for tickets and merch. Average house show generates between 1500 and 4000 tickets sold. We will go high end and say that it was a house that generated 4000 attendees.

WWE will generate BEFORE arena fees, pay for the talent, pay for the crew, and other taxes and fees, assuming the averages of 4 tickets plus $100 in Merch, around $300k. Again, this is Gross, not Net.

After paying for everything involved, WWE might net a third of that.

Now, on the flip side. WWE Live Tours are usually sponsored by a company other than WWE. Might be WWE2K18 the Video Game, might be KFC, might be Mattel, might be snickers. They could be getting anywhere between $10k and $100k per show for these sponsorships.

Tell me, who would you rather listen to...the guy from the Internet that spent maybe $300 on the show, and an additional $120 for the WWE Network...or the sponsor that pays upwards to seven figures a year on sponsorships?

So I completely agree with Goldust. Try to enjoy the show. Not enough of you are turning the channel to make a difference.

 

[Dolph Ziggler's Gimmick]

Well, no, in my opinion that was an appropriate response.

There are different types of criticism. There's respectable, constructive criticism, which should be dealt with using the same respect it entails.

Then there's just bitching about something, without providing any useful context.

"Ugh, no one cares anymore. I'm tired of this. I've felt bored by Bray for 3 years."

That falls somewhere between the two, I think. On one hand they gave some sort of reason for their discontent which gives the subject on the receiving end of the criticism something to work with in order to improve. On the other hand, there was absolutely no respect given and the approach was pretty shallow, so don't expect any respect given back.

Goldy was right the way I see it. He responded basically by telling them to stop being smarks and try to enjoy it from a casual perspective. We get it, you have this whole fantasy booking planned in your mind, you think the two involved can benefit from a turn or a character change, whatever. Point is, it's easier thought of in your mind than it is to implement in the product. And as of right now, these two are busting their asses off trying to make the best out of what they're given at the moment. As for what they're given at the moment, try to enjoy it without overthinking how this or that should be booked, and you just might enjoy it.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

if fans don't think they are being entertained: They won't watch. Simple as that.

I disagree. Wrestling fans is the example being used here, but in many walks of life there are people who watch or do things out of habit. From what I see on this forum, many "fans" LOVE to complain online--some of them transparently doing so whether they actually like what they saw or didn't. Social media has given a platform to those who "want to watch the world burn". Now, in most cases, I am sure these are people who were fans at one time or another. But, regardless, there are people who look forward to Raw, Smackdown, PPVs, just so they have something new to complain about with their fellow miserable.

I believe that many "fans" of wrestling would be miserable if they weren't able to watch and ridicule the very product they claim to hate. Misery loves company and there is plenty of company here. Some people don't want to enjoy what they are watching...they get enjoyment out of hate and negativity and sharing those feelings with the like-minded. A wrestling forum is a perfect example, but there are many other groups filled with this type of person.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

It's Golddust, he's been around for 20+ years and I still am not sure if his name has one 'd' or two. He's a talented guy who has made chicken shit out of chicken salad that people keep eating way after the expiration date. Him giving opinion is like the tree falling down in the woods but no one is there to hear it or give a shit because sometimes trees fall.

That being said, it was a stupid thing to say unless you are really going for a clearly kayfabe heel interview or you're sure no one is listening or giving a shit (see my previous tree analogy). There is no reason to insult anyone's fandom. Idiots who complain are less likely to spend resources on your product if you piss them off (e.g. the NFL). Whether he is right or not (and he is pretty right) is irrelevant.

But I didn't click on the link so I'm only making assumptions on what he actually said based on what I've read here.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

While I don't cares you if fans complaint about the product, that's their right but at the same time if you complaint constently about the product, why are you still watching. You could be watching any other product the fit more your taste. So go and stop wasting your time on watching a product that you don't like and go watch somethimg you will actually like.

The problem with this is that the WWE is now sending mixed messages. Back in 1997 they would encourage fans to speak out, voice themselves out, and express themselves. Remember when Vince had that PSA at the end of December basically admitting that their product has gotten stale and they are listening to the fans for the direction they will take?

How do you go from that to saying "if you don't like it don't watch it" or "just sit back and enjoy and don't complain".

Those statements back in 1997 seem to contradict what they are saying to the fans 20 years later.

And I guess in a way this is why most fans who started watching in the eve of the attitude era feel betrayed. That the message you are trying to send back then no longer applies today.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

The problem with this is that the WWE is now sending mixed messages. Back in 1997 they would encourage fans to speak out, voice themselves out, and express themselves. Remember when Vince had that PSA at the end of December basically admitting that their product has gotten stale and they are listening to the fans for the direction they will take?

How do you go from that to saying "if you don't like it don't watch it" or "just sit back and enjoy and don't complain".

Those statements back in 1997 seem to contradict what they are saying to the fans 20 years later.

And I guess in a way this is why most fans who started watching in the eve of the attitude era feel betrayed. That the message you are trying to send back then no longer applies today.

Completly agree with you, but the problem is that a lot has change in 20 years. The first thing that happened is that they went public and now the company is more control by the investors then vince mcmahon. Also, they get a lot of money from bigger sponsors then they did 20 years ago, so again they have to please them as well as the investors now.

20 years ago, vince still had complete control of his company and could do and say what he wanted, now he can't. the main exemple is the 3 hours raw and having the christmas and new year raw being live this year. But decision have been made by USA network and not WWE so if they want to get that money that comes with the tv deal they have to do what the network says.

So in the end, yes the message is mix, but we need to realise that we're not in 1997 anymore and that a lot as change since the attitude era and the WWE doesn'T have as much lee way as the once did.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

Completly agree with you, but the problem is that a lot has change in 20 years. The first thing that happened is that they went public and now the company is more control by the investors then vince mcmahon. Also, they get a lot of money from bigger sponsors then they did 20 years ago, so again they have to please them as well as the investors now.

20 years ago, vince still had complete control of his company and could do and say what he wanted, now he can't. the main exemple is the 3 hours raw and having the christmas and new year raw being live this year. But decision have been made by USA network and not WWE so if they want to get that money that comes with the tv deal they have to do what the network says.

So in the end, yes the message is mix, but we need to realise that we're not in 1997 anymore and that a lot as change since the attitude era and the WWE doesn'T have as much lee way as the once did.

I am glad you agree but I guess you can also understand it in the perspective of the fans. Especially since most of the hardcore fans today started watching during that era.

And, as you know, fans don't see things in the corporate perspective. Rightfully or wrongly. We see things based on the wrestling product presented.

And i think that's the problem now that the WWE cares more about their brand than the Wrestling product (which is why we have something like Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse at WM instead of something like Cena vs. Samoa Joe) Because Total Bella's/Total Divas is part of the WWE brand and they decided to book that instead of strengthening the WM wrestling card.

For traditional Wrestling fans (or at least the ones that grew up in a more traditional model of how a wrestling promotion operates) this is kind of worrisome.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I liked Goldust better when he got electrocuted and walked around like a damaged C3-PO and randomly screamed during interviews. He should go back to that, even in his tweets.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I am glad you agree but I guess you can also understand it in the perspective of the fans. Especially since most of the hardcore fans today started watching during that era.

And, as you know, fans don't see things in the corporate perspective. Rightfully or wrongly. We see things based on the wrestling product presented.

And i think that's the problem now that the WWE cares more about their brand than the Wrestling product (which is why we have something like Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse at WM instead of something like Cena vs. Samoa Joe) Because Total Bella's/Total Divas is part of the WWE brand and they decided to book that instead of strengthening the WM wrestling card.

For traditional Wrestling fans (or at least the ones that grew up in a more traditional model of how a wrestling promotion operates) this is kind of worrisome.

I understand your point but like someoe else point it out on this thread, when you have to choose between the fans who pay between a 100 and 400$ each for tickets and merchandise or a sponsor that paying you 200k for get their product over, they will listen more to the sponsor then the fan. The problem is like you said, that a lot of the hardcore are leftover from the attitude era so they don't see the corporate side of the business like I do or people in the business do.

I think that fans still don't get that WWE isn't a wrestling company anyore, it's a corporations with investors and sponsors and that vince can't do what he wants anymore.

Going public was a good and a bad thing for wwe, they got more money from them going public then when it was a family own company but at the same time vince don't get to do what he wants anymore and giving what best for the fans like he did when I started watching in the 80 or when other fans started watching during the attitude era is gone and that sad because the company was always about who give them the most money and now it's the sponsors and investors that are controlling the show. That's why they have to go with guys that bring in the money like john cena and roman reigns and won't push somebody like a cesaro because reigns brings in the money, cena brig in the money, cesaro don't.

The funny thing with hardcore fans is that they want to know everything that goes backstage but only take what they want to hear and don't want to get that without the corporate side their wouldn't be a wwe fr them to enjoy or complain about. The corporate side of the company is what make the company run right now, not the fans like it was 20 or 30 years ago. It sad but that's the reality of the busness right now. So in a way, goldust does have point, we should just stop complaining and enjoy the product and if we don't enjoy it anymore just watch something else.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

First of all, look at who is doing the talking...

Dustin Rhodes/Goldust is a true legend and one of the few 2nd gen or 3rd gen stars to LEGIT have a legacy of his own that wasn't down to the family name... Cody, Randy I'm looking at you... While he started as Dustin, he's been Goldust 3 times as long as he ever was Dustin in the ring...and that "first" career was more than many get in terms of success.

He's also the son of someone who was legendary not just for being the guy "pushed" to be champ, but who genuinely connected with fans of his time and had a big influence on how the product became what it is today... Dusty set up Starrcade, helped shape WCW TV and the NXT product that trained a lot of the guys these "moaners" want pushed. Perhaps with the exception of Shane and Steph, Dustin has a pretty good bead on how the business has gotten to this point and "been part of it" through his father, if not "first hand" at the time while growing up, from talking to him later.

Goldust knows that being pushed to the main event isn't about "just a title", and that most stars won't get to that top level... He certainly didn't... but he's still had a 20 year+ career on VERY good money, with very little time off/fired/gone when it comes down to it. He's made more doing that than a 6 month reign as World Champion would have delivered...something Cody sadly didn't want to accept.

When he joined the WWF, Steve Austin was The Ringmaster, Mick Foley had only just become Mankind, The Big Show was in WCW and Kane was still in Smokey Mountain or Issac Yankem. Chris Jericho was a new cruiserweight and The Rock had barely started to train while Triple H was getting slopped by Henry Godwinn. There is scope for ANYONE on this roster to change from where they are to the next megastar... but the one thing you can guarantee is if you bitch enough about one talent NOT getting the chance, there will be a price they pay... Look at how Daniel Bryan worked out as soon as he was hurt or how Cesaro has struggled.

Fans want it NOW... and more than any other show, they feel they have control and their opinion counts. Do Marvel fans kick off and bitch at the direction something takes? rarely, they like what they get... but they get a 2 hour movie 3 times a year. WWE produces 7-10 hours of TV every week at least 5 hours of that being live if not more with a PPV.

He is simply telling those fans TRY and enjoy what is there, cos if you don't... those people who are part of it will be gone... People weren't enjoying the WWE in 1995/96 more than WCW... it meant WWE went a different way and luckily for them, created new stars in the process to save the company. They may be under pressure today, but not in the same way. This IWC fan bitching that Goldust is referring to is now DAMAGING the company...

"Oh I hate Roman, he's Vince's guy...or Vince has lost it" translate into real-world consequences as Wall Street look at Vince and the company... "Jinder Mahal has no business as champion..." if listened to might affect the companies success in a new and potentially very lucrative territory.

By actually getting behind Roman, yes it may be "selling out your views" a little bit, but it also helps secure the company so he can then put someone ELSE over who you may well like... We as fans want it NOW... they're looking at 3-6-8 years down the line.

Try telling Marvel/Disney they're getting it wrong? will they listen? nope... cos those dissenting voices are the minority and the majority will still pay for the merch, see the movies and buy their vision of things... only when something REALLY gets bad press like Inhumans might they look again, but even then, is it really worse than Agents of SHIELD was at the start? probably not...but we're spoiled and will not allow for growth as we maybe did with that first series of AoS...

Same for WWE, fans got used to being listened to more when the company was in trouble and never got over being "ditched" as soon as it wasn't. The idea that ANY of us can write and consider ourselves part of the business, much less get paid to talk about it is insane when you think about it. Most of what goes on in the IWC would be dismissed as fan theory in any other media.

All Goldust is saying is to reign that in... there's a place for it, but there's also a time to shut the fuck up and watch the product, rather than trying to do better in your head without the infinite variables Vince and the WWE team have for each episode.

It's how wrestling works... you suspend your disbelief, if you can't do that enough to watch a 3 hour war with no opinion... you probably should stop watching. It's clearly no longer fun and will only lead to disappointment, cos you, me, anyone on this site or any other is NEVER gonna run WWE the company...

The best you will get is once the tech catches up is a subscription game where you can manage your own WWE. They might go that route yet... but the actual show, stop trying to run it... cos you can't.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

First of all, look at who is doing the talking...

Dustin Rhodes/Goldust is a true legend and one of the few 2nd gen or 3rd gen stars to LEGIT have a legacy of his own that wasn't down to the family name... Cody, Randy I'm looking at you... While he started as Dustin, he's been Goldust 3 times as long as he ever was Dustin in the ring...and that "first" career was more than many get in terms of success.

He's also the son of someone who was legendary not just for being the guy "pushed" to be champ, but who genuinely connected with fans of his time and had a big influence on how the product became what it is today... Dusty set up Starrcade, helped shape WCW TV and the NXT product that trained a lot of the guys these "moaners" want pushed. Perhaps with the exception of Shane and Steph, Dustin has a pretty good bead on how the business has gotten to this point and "been part of it" through his father, if not "first hand" at the time while growing up, from talking to him later.

Goldust knows that being pushed to the main event isn't about "just a title", and that most stars won't get to that top level... He certainly didn't... but he's still had a 20 year+ career on VERY good money, with very little time off/fired/gone when it comes down to it. He's made more doing that than a 6 month reign as World Champion would have delivered...something Cody sadly didn't want to accept.

When he joined the WWF, Steve Austin was The Ringmaster, Mick Foley had only just become Mankind, The Big Show was in WCW and Kane was still in Smokey Mountain or Issac Yankem. Chris Jericho was a new cruiserweight and The Rock had barely started to train while Triple H was getting slopped by Henry Godwinn. There is scope for ANYONE on this roster to change from where they are to the next megastar... but the one thing you can guarantee is if you bitch enough about one talent NOT getting the chance, there will be a price they pay... Look at how Daniel Bryan worked out as soon as he was hurt or how Cesaro has struggled.

Fans want it NOW... and more than any other show, they feel they have control and their opinion counts. Do Marvel fans kick off and bitch at the direction something takes? rarely, they like what they get... but they get a 2 hour movie 3 times a year. WWE produces 7-10 hours of TV every week at least 5 hours of that being live if not more with a PPV.

He is simply telling those fans TRY and enjoy what is there, cos if you don't... those people who are part of it will be gone... People weren't enjoying the WWE in 1995/96 more than WCW... it meant WWE went a different way and luckily for them, created new stars in the process to save the company. They may be under pressure today, but not in the same way. This IWC fan bitching that Goldust is referring to is now DAMAGING the company...

"Oh I hate Roman, he's Vince's guy...or Vince has lost it" translate into real-world consequences as Wall Street look at Vince and the company... "Jinder Mahal has no business as champion..." if listened to might affect the companies success in a new and potentially very lucrative territory.

By actually getting behind Roman, yes it may be "selling out your views" a little bit, but it also helps secure the company so he can then put someone ELSE over who you may well like... We as fans want it NOW... they're looking at 3-6-8 years down the line.

Try telling Marvel/Disney they're getting it wrong? will they listen? nope... cos those dissenting voices are the minority and the majority will still pay for the merch, see the movies and buy their vision of things... only when something REALLY gets bad press like Inhumans might they look again, but even then, is it really worse than Agents of SHIELD was at the start? probably not...but we're spoiled and will not allow for growth as we maybe did with that first series of AoS...

Same for WWE, fans got used to being listened to more when the company was in trouble and never got over being "ditched" as soon as it wasn't. The idea that ANY of us can write and consider ourselves part of the business, much less get paid to talk about it is insane when you think about it. Most of what goes on in the IWC would be dismissed as fan theory in any other media.

All Goldust is saying is to reign that in... there's a place for it, but there's also a time to shut the fuck up and watch the product, rather than trying to do better in your head without the infinite variables Vince and the WWE team have for each episode.

It's how wrestling works... you suspend your disbelief, if you can't do that enough to watch a 3 hour war with no opinion... you probably should stop watching. It's clearly no longer fun and will only lead to disappointment, cos you, me, anyone on this site or any other is NEVER gonna run WWE the company...

The best you will get is once the tech catches up is a subscription game where you can manage your own WWE. They might go that route yet... but the actual show, stop trying to run it... cos you can't.

This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.

And comparing Marvel to WWE isn’t an apples to apples comparison because Marvel is following a well established script most of the time while WWE is completely new most of the time. And people do bitch about Marvel at times, but they typically give fans what they want. That’s all you have to do is deliver a product the fans enjoy and the money will come. No need to play this “shut up and take it” routine.

 

[Navi]

This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.

And comparing Marvel to WWE isn’t an apples to apples comparison because Marvel is following a well established script most of the time while WWE is completely new most of the time. And people do bitch about Marvel at times, but they typically give fans what they want. That’s all you have to do is deliver a product the fans enjoy and the money will come. No need to play this “shut up and take it” routine.

Agreed. It would seem that with both attendance at live shows, TV ratings dipping, some fans aren't taking the "shut up and enjoy" what we put out there, aren't taking that advice.

Sure you can turn off the TV might not be a blip on their radar, but not buying a ticket to a RAW, SD Live or house show, directly affects their bottom line. That means merchandise sales will be down amoung other things. Here in Toronto you can still sell out the ACC for a RAW, but some cities in the US are getting maybe 4,000 to 6,000 for a RAW. That is pitiful when you consider these arena's can fit close to 16,000 paying customers. That's one hell of a drop.

Who to blame the fans, I think not. Wrestling fans are a niche group, piss them off and you might lose them for good. Yea we are probably in the worst part of the year with the NFL just starting up, and the run up to Mania will bring a lot of people back, but you can't start counting on one show a year to keep the company going.

This year in particular has been a hard one to get through. Putting one belt on an absent champion didn't work the last time, it's not really working this time either. Not only that, we know he's only holding it till Mania when Reigns will slay the beast. No surprises and with what appears to be a champion that some don't want doesn't leave one much to get excited about.

On SD Live you have Jinder Mahal, one of the most boring wrestlers holding the other title. I was willing to give Mahal a chance but he is kind of bombing. When the champ comes out and no one gives a crap, not a good sign.

It's hilarious though that only the hardcore IWC will be the only ones to see Goldberg's tweets. The WWE target audience these days isn't old enough to even have a Twitter account. The WWE can say what they want and send out as many messengers that they have, it doesn't change the fact that right now wrestling is kind of sucking.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Was watching some youtube lists other day. There was top 10 wrestlers who refused to drop the belt to another wrestlers. Nothing groundbreaking, lots of Shawn and Montreal Screwjob at no1. But one example sticked to my head. In Wrestlemania 9 Bret lost to Yokozuna and Hogan immediately won the title from Yoko. Basically Hogan didnt like Hart and considered him inferior. So when he found out that Hart would be dropping the belt, well, there was time for Hulkster to show that he is always on top, brotha. And he was cheered for that move. A lot.

Now, imagine happening it now. Cena doesnt want to job to, for example, AJ Styles. Styles loses the title to generic foreign heel like Mahal and Cena just beats Mahal in 20 seconds and takes the title right after that. Crowd would be livid and Cena would be booed out of building.

So, you see, Goldie is right. As much as I am sure Bret had its fans that were extremely unhappy, most of crowd just did go with it and celebrated with Hogan. Bret time at top has come pretty soon so its not like he lost something in Hogans ego game. So, yeah, sometimes its just better to suspend disbelief and enjoy and good things could come.

 

[BestSportsEntertainer]

This is why WWE is failing. "Our product is amazing! Please continue watching and cheer Roman Reigns..."

Yeah yeah we get it. WWE is declining and they refuse to change anything. It's sad.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I read a lot of fans are not showing up to tapings because they don't like the product or because they finally decided to leave and go watch something else. But the one thing that we seem to forget about this is that it's like this every year, it's the trend for the WWE around that time and since they pretty much the biggest game in town and they know that they are getting those big sponsors check and others outside money from investor and their tv deals and the network that seem to be going pretty good, they don'T need that as much tickets sales to make a profit because merchandise sales will stay steady anyway since 75% of their merchandise sales comes from the website. The rest comes from live events and that mostly families that goes to those so that mean that they can easily get between 100$ and 300$ per families on merch sales, that's without counting the amount that they are getting from tickets sales.

So they're not really worry about low attendance at raw and smackdown tapings or that the ratings are not as high as before because they know that the next few months are dead months and they are in bracing it instead of doing something to get fans coming to the show because quite frankly, the few thounsand fans that are not showing on to the show right now, will return around the holiday period and during wrestlemania period. Out of 12 months, they have maybe 2 or 3 dead months every year so it's not like it's a big deal for them money wise.

The hardcore fans will always comes back to WWE no matter what, they will right now they stop caring because nothing is happening so they go an watch something else then when royal rumble time comes around, they will pretty much all come back like they do pretty much every year. They should only be worried about this situation if this continues past the holiday season and into wrestlemania season until then i think we just need to be patient and either enjoy the show or stop watching until mania season when they will put some effort into the product again.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

This is a lot of words just to say “shut up and like what WWE gives you.” Which is completely the wrong line of thought. If you don’t like something, then you should do your best to change it before you give up on it. That’s what a fair number of fans are trying to do. They want to see change because the product isn’t to their liking.

And comparing Marvel to WWE isn’t an apples to apples comparison because Marvel is following a well established script most of the time while WWE is completely new most of the time. And people do bitch about Marvel at times, but they typically give fans what they want. That’s all you have to do is deliver a product the fans enjoy and the money will come. No need to play this “shut up and take it” routine.

Seriously? WWE is "Completely new most of the time..."? It's the most formulaic of entertainment products out there, more so that anything Marvel has ever put out. Vince hit on a "magic formula" in the 80's and tries ad nauseum to repeat it... Until recently, it was an Apples to Apples situation because RAW and Agents Of SHIELD were direct competition on a Monday Night... When there is no other legit wrestling competition, EVERY form of media, entertainment and pastime is competition. That's what IWC people don't realise, grasp or accept. WWE do.

The money IS coming still... that's the key... WWE is not only still alive financially but still turning profits.

As I said, try telling Disney to change Star Wars or your fave NFL team coach to play your choice of QB rather than the one best for their result... Tell the owner he's lost it cos he disagrees... Will he still make money? Yes... will he listen to you? No... Now if enough fans turn against, things may change but as long as profits are relatively stable... why should they when crowds still show up? So if they won't change... why should Vince?

Frankly, this comment sums up my and Goldust's point. You feel entitled to comment and tell people the "shut up and take it" view is wrong... it's the ONLY viewpoint WWE can take. Say they listened and binned Roman in favour of Cesaro, only for him to spectacularly flop. Years of investment is wasted in both guys... there's nothing to say in 3 years time Roman v Cesaro won't be headlining WM if they let things take their natural course... but the only thing worse than forcing someone fans don't want is botching someone they do...the ballad of CM Punk proves that.

Like I said, if you can't sit through 3 hours of RAW either on TV or go to a live WWE show and "just have fun" then don't watch... if it's live most of the guys working the show would rather you stayed home than be there to start an "oh so helpful" chant or be a smark... Even better, if you bought a ticket and decide "enough is enough" pass it on to a kid who has never been, let them enjoy the show you can't... if not, bitch as much as you like... but don't EVER expect to be taken seriously by WWE or think you can affect them. You REALLY can't...