How would Shawn Michaels be remembered if March 1998 really had been the end?

[Creepy Old Man]

By his initial retirement in March 1998, Shawn had enjoyed a 14-year career. 10 of those were in WWE, with the first four being as half of the very popular Rockers; he headlined his first pay-per-view in 1989 at Survivor Series where he stood alongside Warrior against Andre and his team. The Rockers were voted the 1989 "Tag Team of the Year" by Wrestling Observer readers, and faced most of the top teams of that era: Hart Foundation, Legion of Doom, Demolition, Nasty Boys, Brain Busters, Fabulous Rougeaus, and Natural Disasters.

From 1992-1998 Shawn held every title in the company, with three WWF Championships (then a considerable number) and two WrestleMania headlining slots for the top title. He wrestled Hall of Fame-level world champions such as Austin, Undertaker, Savage, Bret, Flair, Triple H, Foley, Vader, Nash, Yoko, Hennig and Lawler. One could argue that Michaels was only a top-level guy during the last three years of his first run, but he challenged Bret and Savage for the WWF title back in 1992, and was always at the very least an upper-mid carder.

On paper it's quite a resume, then you factor in his performance level; by 1998 Michaels had already won the Pro Wrestling Illustrated "Match of the Year" vote four times, as well as two 5 Star Match ratings and a "Match of the Year" award from the Wrestling Observer (thanks Wikipedia).

I'm sure he'd be in the Hall of Fame by now, but how would you regard him as compared to other greats?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

This is a very difficult question cos you're relying on everything that did happen good after he left still happening.

Shawn knew in 1998 it wasn't career ending, he was burned out and knew he was looking at minimum of 6 months to a year out for proper rehab of the injury, but Vince was one step of forcing him to the OTHER rehab to stay on the roster and his problems worsened in that following year to the point he was basically fired and then he met his wife, turned it around...

If that injury had been truly "you're done"... I think we're talking about a different scenario altogether, where Shawn goes through the "bargaining steps" etc with WCW in some capacity, gets even more wasted with Nash and Scott to back him up/run the old interference and Bischoff as the peacemaker between he and Bret...

I genuinely think if his career had ended in 1998, Shawn would have been dead by 2000 either through drug use or even worse...

That would affect how he was perceived as much as his career.

Let's be positive and assume all that didn't happen was the comeback.

I think Shawn goes into the HOF, but not before Bret. I think it would be a Savage-esque situation, but the political situation after Owen's death and Bret's stroke would mean Vince wouldn't burn the good relations by putting Bret in after Shawn... Bret would get his moment, probably a year or so sooner than he did and Shawn would have gone in the following year or if it could have been negotiated, together.

A lot of the goodwill Shawn got was from the quality of his comeback and relatively reformed behaviour... he was still a dick at times, but he at least apologised and knew he was wrong prior... when he left he didn't and that would colour his legacy... He would have been the guy who wouldn't drop titles, feign injury to avoid jobs. That kind of attitude can negate awards.

 

[Vader]

I think that adequately addresses Michaels' integrity. In terms of his in-ring reputation, I would argue that some of Michaels' best matches were after he came back. There are very few guys out there that can compete with Michaels in terms of his all around wrestling ability and character development.

 

[BuriedByCena]

It depends if The Rock would let him in the HoF or not. Ever since Rock went to Hollywood, Vince thinks his opinion is the end all/be all. And we all know Rocky hates Micheals. I believe he would go in eventually and would still be regarded as one of the greatest despite his past.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

He would most certainly be revered in the wrestling community, especially given his talents and his relationship with Vince and Triple H. Any fan who watched him during this time would remember him as there was a lot of thing's HBK did that were worth remembering.

With that said HBK's best years came after he came back from back surgery and it was those years that took him from great to greatness in my opinion. Michaels was only in the main event picture for a little over 2 years in WWE and much of that time he was sitting on the sidelines due to a mix of personal issues and injuries, it's a little hard to call someone "one of the greatest ever" when their time on top is easily forgettable and half of that time was spent at home.

HBK would most certainly be in the HOF, he would be revered as a great performer but he wouldn't be often considered the greatest of all time if he didn't come back in '02 because that's when the magic of HBK shined the brightest.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

I think he mostly would have been remembered as a guy who could have been great but never fully reached this potential. There's no question Shawn has had a number of great matches from his first run, vs Razor, Diesel, Hart. But he was also wildly inconsistent. In my opinion, it was his second run that he really reached that greatness, had some of the best matches of his career, and cemented his legendary status. I don't think we'd be saying the same if he retired for good in 1998. We'd look back at him as a troubled star and wish "if only".

 

[synesthesia]

It depends if The Rock would let him in the HoF or not. Ever since Rock went to Hollywood, Vince thinks his opinion is the end all/be all. And we all know Rocky hates Micheals. I believe he would go in eventually and would still be regarded as one of the greatest despite his past.

What is this? 2002? Rock doesn't hate Shawn Michaels anymore. Do you not remember The Rock saying HBK was one of his dream matches?

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I think he'd still be regarded as one of the best in-ring performers of all time, even without the fantastic 2nd run on his resume, Michaels was already thought of as an icon before his retirement in 1998. However, his well-documented backstage attitude and antics would definitely have affected his legacy. People would always think of him helping to screw Bret Hart, refusing to drop titles and generally being a prick as much as they'd have remembered his phenomenal talent.

As THTRobTaylor has said, if HBK knew there was no chance of him ever returning to the ring, his personal issues would have spiralled even further out of control and he'd have ended up as another wrestling tragedy- he was definitely on that route. Thank God he was able to turn his life around, have another phenomenal run in the WWE, right along of the wrongs he had done and deservedly go down as one of the best of all time.

 

[FlairFan2003]

He'd have been remembered as A) One of wrestling's biggest backstage jerks and most difficult stars to work with B) One of the worst talents ever for sabotaging the product in favor of his own character C) Supremely talented individual who never fulfilled his potential due in part to his attitude and in part due to injury.

Someone referenced his drug issues which he started cleaning up after his surgery/re hab, time away, etc. It's possible that if he would have been physically able to continue he might have imploded. He needed the time away to "get straight", both from drugs and from his destructive attitude.

He also may have been gone from WWE....It was clear that Austin was #1 guy in away that HBK had never been, or Brett for that matter. While there still would have been plenty of room and his talents, especially as a lead heel, he wasn't going to get sole possession of the top spot, HBK in the past wasn't easy to work with when he wasn't on top of the charts and Vince might have been forced to cut his losses with the ascension of Austin, Rock, the continued success of Taker, the rise of Foley, etc.

Certainly if HBK, with his drug issues, lands in WCW he self destructs. Nash clearly wasn't up to the task of helping Hall, who by 1998 was already himself on the outs with the company and becoming a part time talent and high profile jobber, and we've seen how well his life & career were moving forward. WCW was the place where Louie Spiccoli OD'd and Curt Henning went live on Nitro drunk, it was a wild west show and Bischoff for all his creative talent and ability to craft some of the best TV done that decade wasn't up to the task of riding herd on the talent when needed. HBK's worst behavior would have been indulged by himself and likely ignored by everyone else, I doubt Brett Hart would have done anything to help him, he wasn't as close to Flair at that time as he was in later years, and certainly Hogan wouldn't have gotten involved, the more guys ruin themselves the less likely they are to steal his spotlight. When someone posted that HBK might have been dead without that break in 1998 that doesn't seem so far fetched.

In the end, his second act post 2002 saved him, mainly because he came back as a team oriented guy who did right by the company and his co workers, he put over up and comers like Randy Orton & John Cena to help burnish their cred with the audience as well as working well with legends like Taker, Flair, & HHH. He wasn't treated poorly or jobbed out all the time, he was treated exactly the way you are supposed to treat a top star on the second act of their career, give them meaningful wins, don't saddle them with secondary losses, win a few titles, but share the spot light with the new generation and occasionally give a big win and big moment back to elevate those guys legitimately in the eyes of the fans. Without post 2002, even if he doesn't end up dead, If HBK's career is done post 1998 he is well below the status he has now, both strictly in terms of his in ring accomplishments and as an over all performer.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The other side of the coin is also how would others have stacked up in his absence... for example Chris Jericho was coming of a poor run as the Unified Champion, not through his own doing but poor none the less. The feud with HBK in 02 rejuvinated him as a character and top tier performer and the one in 08 was the settlement of the "would he ever be HOF level" argument... Shawn post 02 did that for Jericho but I think if Shawn didn't return, WWE would have embraced Y2J perhaps a bit more as the direct replacement for him and maybe given him a little more "game time" over the years. They didn't need Jericho on top cos they had Shawn... with no Shawn there, then Jericho fills that spot perfectly for longer... likewise for Edge, you may well have seen him rise up the ranks quicker to true main event status.

Shawn's return also affects Trips, not quite negatively, but Trips was always #2 in the DX double act and Shawn's return so close to Hunter's big return from injury arguably killed some of that head of steam he had after beating Jericho and Booker at successive Mania's... with no Shawn return, Trips is the guy probably lauded like Shawn is today...

Guys like Benoit, Eddie and the like still may have gotten where they did, but having Shawn around, particularly once Brock and Goldberg were playing silly buggers backstage arguably got Vince "over the big man" fetish long enough to give those two a run... Shawn was around, and helped put Benoit over at Mania... but no Shawn there then Vince probably goes for a Batista type far earlier than he did.

 

[Pedigree1]

Had HBK Career ended in 98 he already at that point was one of the best to ever compete. But at that point he was burned out and injured very badly. At this point though,he really had done it all and had nothing to prove at all.. He had competed in arguably the greatest WM match still to this point against the Hitman,the first ever Ladder Match,first ever HIAC.

Multiple winner of the RR,championship runs,IC runs.. Had shawns career ended in 98 without finding his second path though i don't think he would be here with us today! I truly believe that. Him finding salvation saved him!

 

[the smark break kid]

Shawn Michaels would still be a hall of famer if his career ended at the boston garden at wrestlemania 14 (which i was at). Ive had this arguement before now Hbk in his first run was great some epic matches and I think Shawn was more athletic back then too. When Shawn returned in 2002 of course he had a great run including first elimination chamber match, retiring naitch and his programs with Taker..but alot of his hall of fame cred did happen before march of 1998 such as 2 rumble wins, first ladder, hell in a cell and iron man matches, dx..

 

[MrMojoRisin]

If he just retires in '98 and never comes back? Assuming that everything else that happened in his life still happens and he doesn't die from an OD (getting married, having a family, cleaning himself up, finding God)

It's hard to say. He did have a great first career. He was always the most talented. But he was also the biggest asshole, and if everything else stays the same except the 2nd career comeback, then it still becomes common knowledge exactly how much of an asshole he was back then.

Think about it. When the topic of HBK comes up today, it's rare to ever see it not veer off into talk about how horrible he was in the 90's. And that's WITH all the good will he built up during his 2nd career comeback. (I say 2nd career because this guy basically had two distinctly separate careers). If he doesn't have that good will anymore, then there's a good chance that all anyone ever says about him when he comes up is what a dick he was, with very little talk about how good he actually was in the ring.

Or since everything else happens but the actual comeback, he still needs to find something to do with his time. Assuming that 2002 is still the time frame for him to start doing something, if it's not wrestling it's something else. That wasn't a time where a guy like him could get a hunting show on an obscure network, so he more likely goes the route of other born again wrestlers and does a traveling ministry. And to that, I'll ask anyone that's old enough to remember Ted Dibiase in either the WWF or Mid-South... and not through Youtube or DVD's. Look at what a big deal he was, and how he gets remembered by younger fans today. Just go above and look at all the times his name pops up in that career mid-carders thread. I don't know that becoming a minister has hurt him legacy wise, but I do think that a lot of younger fans have a hard time believing that Dibiase was as big a deal as he actually was when they look at him today. I could see the same thing applying to Michaels if he went that route... which again is very possible if he didn't return to wrestling.

And finally, keep in mind that if he doesn't come back at all, then the WWE machine has no reason to do the things they do for people over the years to remind fans of how great someone was. You basically don't become as much of the history that they write for their consumers to eat up. Believe me. The WWE does an amazing job of shaping the perception of their wrestlers.

Either way, I don't think history would have been that kind to him if he didn't come back the way that he did. He absolutely needed to do things how he did them.

 

[Vader]

I don't think everyone knew about Shawn's exploits outside of the ring in 1998. The internet certainly wasn't as prevalent so neither was the IWC. If you hadn't heard about it on the news at the time or in a wrestling mag then you may not have known about the history behind Shawn's remark about Bret Hart's "Sunny" days, or him getting beat up by Marines, etc. I'm sure half the fans in 1998 still thought wrestling was real.

I say that because had he not came back in 2002 after being converted, all of his negative past exploits would be open to scrutiny with the proliferation of the internet and he would not have as many redeemable qualities.