Phoenix Region, Dallas Subregion: First Round: (1)Shawn Michaels vs. (32)Robert Roode

[Nate DaMac]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. There are actually 10 people who would vote Robert fucking Roode over Shawn Michaels? I know Coco and LJL would vote Hornswoggle over Shawn so I'm not bothered by that, but seriously? It's Shawn Michaels! Who the fuck is Robert Roode compared to Michaels? Absolutely nothing. He's a tag team wrestler who has done fuck all as a singles guy other than an alleged domestic abuse angle and a program with a way over the hill Booker T that he still managed to come out on the short end of. I cannot even believe that a case has to be made for one of the all time greats, a fucking hall of famer, to go over a nobody. Vote Shawn Michaels.

 

[Shocky]

Bring politics into this as much as you want, fact is, Shawn Michaels accomplished more before 1995 then Robert Roode has done his entire career. Before Michaels became a big player backstage, he was already a damn successful midcard champion in the WWF, and as much of a tag team success with the Rockers.

This potential argument with Robert Roode is bullshit. The guy is 34, at some point living on potential looks pathetic. Roode has been around since the dawn of TNA, and yet has come nowhere near of becoming a significant singles wrestler on the midcard scene.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I'm under the impression that you make your arguments under any criteria as long as you back it up - correct? So let's compare like with like:

Non Indie careers:

In the seven years since Roode has debuted with TNA he has won 6 Tag Belts, true he has won no TNA singles belts but he has spent very little of his career unaffiliated.

In HBK's first seven years in the big leagues, he won one AWA Tag Belt and (arguably) one WWF Tag Belt and (like Double R) no singles belts.

Now after seven years HBK was just started into his solo years and great, nay Iconic, singles career. If these two bump heads this time next year -an IC title will be around HBK's waist but then again, who's to say what Robert's next twelve months hold...

I'm going Robert Roode - arguments have been made 'How can you say he's got potential he's 34'. On that reckoning then, he has approximately eleven years to build his legacy if he wrestles as long as Shawn. Looking around the individuals currently in the WWe and TNA, I'd say it could definitely measure up.

 

[JGlass]

I'm going Robert Roode - arguments have been made 'How can you say he's got potential he's 34'. On that reckoning then, he has approximately eleven years to build his legacy if he wrestles as long as Shawn. Looking around the individuals currently in the WWE and TNA, I'd say it could definitely measure up.

This is a joke. Even if he won the TNA Championship 12 times, none of those reigns could compare to Shawn Michaels' WWE reigns, simply because the TNA World Championship will never, EVER be even half as prestigious as the WWF/E Championship.

And then you can talk about quality of matches. Do you think there is anyone on TNA save AJ Styles and Kurt Angle that can help Roode put on a legendary match? Oh I know Shawn has had the help of such performers as Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and The Undertaker, but that doesn't change the fact that he has put on more amazing matches than Robert Roode can shake a beer bottle at.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I've given my vote to Shawn Michaels. Robert Roode may have all the potential in the world, but until he puts that to good use, he's not even in the same universe as Shawn Michaels. Michaels has the charisma, the mic skills, the in-ring ability and the backstage prowess to make sure he goes over here. Roode may become great in the future, but he's not there yet, by any stretch of the imagination, while Shawn is a legend, awaiting his WWE Hall of Fame induction.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

This is a joke. Even if he won the TNA Championship 12 times, none of those reigns could compare to Shawn Michaels' WWE reigns, simply because the TNA World Championship will never, EVER be even half as prestigious as the WWF/E Championship.

And then you can talk about quality of matches. Do you think there is anyone on TNA save AJ Styles and Kurt Angle that can help Roode put on a legendary match? Oh I know Shawn has had the help of such performers as Bret Hart, Kurt Angle, and The Undertaker, but that doesn't change the fact that he has put on more amazing matches than Robert Roode can shake a beer bottle at.

Asides from what TNA may achieve in that time, who's to say he won't be in WWe? I never mentioned quality of matches - you did, amigo. My criteria was on the first seven years in the non Independents were both guys spent their majority time in tag competition - like TNA or no, Roode's tag career reads more impressively than Shawn's. So like for like I give Rob the edge.

 

[JGlass]

Asides from what TNA may achieve in that time, who's to say he won't be in WWe?

Commonsense says he won't be in WWE, and he especially won't be successful in the WWE. In case you haven't noticed, the WWE is on a bit of a youth kick, and Robert Roode is older than even their most successful stars (John Cena, CM Punk, and Randy Orton are all under 34). Furthermore, Christian has barely managed to do anything super impressive in the WWE since his return, and he's an ex-WWE guy who is extremely talented, more so than Roode for certain. You think Roode can hop ship to WWE and do anything remotely impressive? Hook me up with some of your stash brother.

I never mentioned quality of matches - you did, amigo. My criteria was on the first seven years in the non Independents were both guys spent their majority time in tag competition - like TNA or no, Roode's tag career reads more impressively than Shawn's. So like for like I give Rob the edge.

So in a tournament composed of one and one matches you are going to base the competitor's ability to win on their success in tag team competition? I know we can vote on whatever grounds we want, but this is one of the most preposterous explanations I have ever seen.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Asides from what TNA may achieve in that time, who's to say he won't be in WWe? I never mentioned quality of matches - you did, amigo. My criteria was on the first seven years in the non Independents were both guys spent their majority time in tag competition - like TNA or no, Roode's tag career reads more impressively than Shawn's. So like for like I give Rob the edge.

Dude, why didn't you just say Roode was your personal preference? At least that would have been respectable, but this is just garbage. First of all, Roode's tag team career may read better than Michaels', it in no way is actually better. Think of it this way, in 10 years, who is going to remember Beer Money? Who actually remembers Team Canada at this point? Now to the other side, Shawn Michaels tag team career. Who still remembers The Rockers? I'd say a lot of people as they're considered pioneers in the tag team division. DX? Maybe not the best tage team ever, but they're certainly more memorable than fucking Beer Money.

Once again, your argument is garbage.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I suppose I could go the route of abandoning all logic, join in on the joke, and vote for Roode. On the other hand, I could use my brain, take an internet fantasy wrestling tournament somewhat seriously, and vote for HBK.

...Shawn it is. He might be overrated in the eyes of his employer (check out the 50 Greatest Superstars DVD), but when comparing him to Robert Roode, it isn't much of a debate.

HBK has beaten more big-time superstars than Roode has even competed against. I would name some, but it's so obvious, I find it to be a waste of time. Outside of a few guys hell bent on turning this into a complete mockery, and LJL, no one is voting for Roode.

I'm not a big HBK-mark, never have been. But he goes over here, easily.

 

[The Chosen One of WZ]

Shawn Michaels is one of the greatest in ring performers of all the times and his acomplishments will hardly ever be surpassed especially not by a guy working for a gloryified INDY promotion

Over all Robert Roode is a good wrestlers but is over-rated by the IWC as seen by the ammount of votes for Roode.

I see this match go one way and one way only: A Sweet chin music and Robert staring at the lights. One...Two...Three.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I am 100000% voting for Shawn in this one. Along with Kurt Angle I would probably say he is the best wrestler I have ever seen. It is a shame that Robert Roode got drawn against HBK in round one as I believe he is one of the brightest young talents in the business right now, and a sure-fire main eventer and world champion in years to come.

However, he is up against one of the all-time greats in this match. The Showstopper, the Icon, The Main Event, Mr Wrestlemania...call him what you want but Shawn Michaels will always be a threat, and this match is no exception.

I would expect a great showing from Roode, with him taking the upper hand in back-and-forth match. Then, after a distraction from a returning Sherri, a Sweet Chin Music out of nowhere gets the win for Michaels. A tough break for Roode as he gave a great account of himself here and didn't deserve to lose.

His time will come in future years, but the experience of Shawn Michaels got him the win here in the opening round. He will need to improve however if he is to progress to the later stages of this tournament.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Robert Roode is one of the strong reasons I watch TNA events, but the truth is the guy hasn't done ANYTHING as far as a single's career goes. Hell, he's had tough goes with the likes of Eric Young and Booker T.

Shawn Michaels has done more in a single year (1996, or 1997, really, pick one) than Roode has been able to accomplish in his entire career thus far.

1. Been the top guy in the Company? Michaels.
2. Been the Heavyweight Champion? Michaels.
3. Headlined the top PPV of the Company? Michaels.

Roode got a horrible draw here, because he is a good talent and even personally I expect and want more out of Roode for his future. More so than a partner in a Tag team that can only accomplish so much before it becomes pointless. He's good.. but not anywhere near the league Michaels is in.

 

[Vintage Nick]

Seriously? I can't understand how Robert Roode can have 12 votes based on arguments that are moot and desperate points to try and get him to win (though it seems to be failing absolutely miserably as it should). But for the sake of argument, let's look at the accomplishments of both men in respective companies:

Roode:
* Total Nonstop Action Wrestling
o NWA World Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Eric Young[92]
o TNA World Tag Team Championship (4 times, current) – with James Storm[1]
o Team 3D Invitational Tag Team Tournament (2009) – with James Storm[35]
o TNA Tag Team Championship Series (2010) – with James Storm[52]

Shawn Michaels:

* World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
o WWF Championship (3 times)[8]
o WWF European Championship (1 time)[183]
o WWF Intercontinental Championship (3 times)[8]
o WWF/E World Tag Team Championship (5 times)[184] – with Diesel (2), Steve Austin (1), John Cena (1), and Triple H (1)
o WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time)[185] – with Triple H (1)
o World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[8]
o Royal Rumble (1995, 1996)[8]
o Fourth Triple Crown Champion
o First Grand Slam Champion[8]
o WWE Hall of Fame (Class of 2011)
o Slammy Award for Best Slammin' Jammin' Entrance (1996)
o Slammy Award for Best Threads (1996)
o Slammy Award for Squared Circle Shocker (1996) Won for collapsing; Owen Hart accepts the award for making Michaels collapse
o Slammy Award for Master of Mat Mechanics (1996)
o Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1996) vs. Razor Ramon in a Ladder match at SummerSlam
o Slammy Award for Leader of the New Generation (1996)
o Slammy Award for Best Finisher (1997)
o Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1997) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
o Slammy Award for Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
o Slammy Award for Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
o Slammy Award for Moment of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI


PLUS, for Shawn, NUMEROUS PWI AWARDS AND 5-STAR MATCH AWARDS FROM WRESTLING OBSERVER NEWSLETTER. Seriously, I like Roode and see him as a future World Champ (if he ever gets that push), but his untapped "POTENTIAL" can't hold a candle to the career that Michaels has had. When was the last time Roode had a classic, five-star SINGLES match? I honestly cannot remember when.

 

[Ace Sleeper]

Seriously? I can't understand how Robert Roode can have 12 votes based on arguments that are moot and desperate points to try and get him to win (though it seems to be failing absolutely miserably as it should). But for the sake of argument, let's look at the accomplishments of both men in respective companies:

Roode:
* Total Nonstop Action Wrestling
o NWA World Tag Team Championship (2 times) – with Eric Young[92]
o TNA World Tag Team Championship (4 times, current) – with James Storm[1]
o Team 3D Invitational Tag Team Tournament (2009) – with James Storm[35]
o TNA Tag Team Championship Series (2010) – with James Storm[52]

Shawn Michaels:

* World Wrestling Federation / World Wrestling Entertainment
o WWF Championship (3 times)[8]
o WWF European Championship (1 time)[183]
o WWF Intercontinental Championship (3 times)[8]
o WWF/E World Tag Team Championship (5 times)[184] – with Diesel (2), Steve Austin (1), John Cena (1), and Triple H (1)
o WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time)[185] – with Triple H (1)
o World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[8]
o Royal Rumble (1995, 1996)[8]
o Fourth Triple Crown Champion
o First Grand Slam Champion[8]
o WWE Hall of Fame (Class of 2011)
o Slammy Award for Best Slammin' Jammin' Entrance (1996)
o Slammy Award for Best Threads (1996)
o Slammy Award for Squared Circle Shocker (1996) Won for collapsing; Owen Hart accepts the award for making Michaels collapse
o Slammy Award for Master of Mat Mechanics (1996)
o Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1996) vs. Razor Ramon in a Ladder match at SummerSlam
o Slammy Award for Leader of the New Generation (1996)
o Slammy Award for Best Finisher (1997)
o Slammy Award for US West Match of the Year (1997) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
o Slammy Award for Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
o Slammy Award for Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
o Slammy Award for Moment of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVI


PLUS, for Shawn, NUMEROUS PWI AWARDS AND 5-STAR MATCH AWARDS FROM WRESTLING OBSERVER NEWSLETTER. Seriously, I like Roode and see him as a future World Champ (if he ever gets that push), but his untapped "POTENTIAL" can't hold a candle to the career that Michaels has had. When was the last time Roode had a classic, five-star SINGLES match? I honestly cannot remember when.

Shawn also held titles in other credible companies including the AWA with Marty Jannetty, which was one of the most prestigious tag team wrestling companies in the world. That's enough to beat out a few of Roode's tag title reigns alone. He also won the NWA central championships with Marty Jannetty which is also a very prestigious title in the CSW. Those are more prestigious then Roode's in my opinion, but you could argue different.

For you people who say he puts on a show, but doesn't let others over or can't win, lets just look at his multiple match of the year performances.

PWI Match of the Year (1993) vs. Marty Jannetty on Monday Night Raw on May 17
PWI Match of the Year (1994) vs. Razor Ramon in a Ladder match at WrestleMania X
PWI Match of the Year (1995) vs. Diesel at WrestleMania XI
PWI Match of the Year (1996) vs. Bret Hart in an Iron Man match at WrestleMania XII
PWI Match of the Year (2004) vs. Chris Benoit and Triple H at WrestleMania XX
PWI Match of the Year (2005) vs. Kurt Angle at WrestleMania 21
PWI Match of the Year (2006) vs. Vince McMahon in a No Holds Barred match at WrestleMania 22
PWI Match of the Year (2007) vs. John Cena on Raw on April 23
PWI Match of the Year (2008) vs. Ric Flair at WrestleMania XXIV
PWI Match of the Year (2009) vs. The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXV
PWI Match of the Year (2010) vs. The Undertaker in a Career vs. Streak match at WrestleMania XXVI

Pretty sure he won at least 4 of those matches. And the others he put on a hell of a show. So he does indeed put people over and he can win. I thought he was all about politics and wouldn't let others win and only won titles because of backstage power and shit? Along with him winning some of those. That's just a big ol' contradiction.

The fact that Roode is being compared to Shawn Michaels is ridiculous. Do you people honestly think about things before you write them out? A 7 year tag team championship run compared to Shawn Michaels storied career. Seriously?

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Commonsense says he won't be in WWE, and he especially won't be successful in the WWE. In case you haven't noticed, the WWE is on a bit of a youth kick, and Robert Roode is older than even their most successful stars (John Cena, CM Punk, and Randy Orton are all under 34). Furthermore, Christian has barely managed to do anything super impressive in the WWE since his return, and he's an ex-WWE guy who is extremely talented, more so than Roode for certain. You think Roode can hop ship to WWE and do anything remotely impressive? Hook me up with some of your stash brother.

Roode is 4 months older than Alberto Del Rio - probably the most pushed of the current 'youth' movement, The average age of featured male wrestlers in the entire Elimination Chamber PPV is 32 years and 8 months (and no, I didn't include the King) - Double R is 17 months older than this, I don't think he is ready for the glue factory JUST yet. Just because the WWe has made a mess with Christian doesn't mean they would with Bobby. He has the sort of look that Vince likes and with his moves coming from the likes of Mr Perfect, Rick Rude and Arn Anderson, he already wrestles in a WWe style. If you don't think Robert Roode could make a WWe superstar, I'd return your stash.

So in a tournament composed of one and one matches you are going to base the competitor's ability to win on their success in tag team competition? I know we can vote on whatever grounds we want, but this is one of the most preposterous explanations I have ever seen.

Why is this preposterous - Roode has been deemed good enough to be in this tournament. There are very few active wrestlers can stand against HBKs career, so if they are to be fairly compared this should be at parallel juctures in careers. As I stated Roode is with TNA 7 years (and not as some of the posters in this thread believe, 9 years) and the parallel juncture in HBKs career was mid 1992, which brings me to...

Dude, why didn't you just say Roode was your personal preference? At least that would have been respectable, but this is just garbage. First of all, Roode's tag team career may read better than Michaels', it in no way is actually better. Think of it this way, in 10 years, who is going to remember Beer Money? Who actually remembers Team Canada at this point? Now to the other side, Shawn Michaels tag team career. Who still remembers The Rockers? I'd say a lot of people as they're considered pioneers in the tag team division.

Actually, I don't have a preference - I'm a big fan of both guys and as such, I wanted to give them an even playing field. Is this wrong?

Lets be honest - the Rockers would NOT be remembered now if it had not been for the career of Shawn. One title reign in a dying federation (AWA) and a second that despite Shawn's now Iconic status has still never been recognised. The Rockers should be recognised for what they were, Rock N Roll Express knock offs and on a WWF totem pole level with the Killers Bees and the Rougeau Brothers.

If you don't like TNA, fine - that's your prerogative but they have had (for TNA and casual fans) memorable feuds with LAX, Matt Morgan & Abyss, Leathal Consequences, Team 3D, the British Invasion and MMG.

DX? Maybe not the best tage team ever, but they're certainly more memorable than fucking Beer Money.

Once again, your argument is garbage.

And DX were in which part of Shawn Michaels career '85-'92?

Up to now, Robert Roode doesn't have a highly regarded singles career but in that time he does have victories over former world champs - Jeff Hardy, Ron (R-Truth) Killings, Jeff Jarrett and Booker T as well as victories over Eric Young (a holder of the Global/ TV belt) and multiple X Division champs Petey Williams and Kaz - he has also had connections with Christian, Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan and Rick Flair. Shawn never got to feud with Marty but did have an enjoyable (from a comedy standpoint) series with Rick Martel over Sensational Sherri that ended in a no punches to the face stipulation draw.

My criteria was similar periods in the careers of Shawn Michaels ('85-'92) and Robert Roode ('04-'11) - when they became a part of World Title status recognised brands (AWA and then WWF for the future HBK and TNA for RR). In my opinion, over these similar careers for the prescribed period - Roode has the better career and as such would pin the '92 Sexy Boy. Obviously the creators of the tournament regard TNA as a strong enough organisation to have it's superstars in the privileged 128, if you only recognise the (W)WWF/e - that's part of your criteria. There was no 'garbage' in my thinking!

 

[G.O.A.T]

My vote is going to be for Roode in an exciting upset.That vote should count as 5 coming from me.A life long HBK mark.But Roode is one one of thoes few wrestlers who can be a great face or heel,like a HBK or a HHH.But a tournament always has upsets.So i think this match is as good as others

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I like Robert Roode and would love to see him go on his own as a singles wrestler. However, there's just no way I can vote for him over a legitimate and consistently proven superstar like Shawn Michaels.

Roode has a LOT to prove and a looooooong way to go before he can even be remotely considered to be in the same league as HBK. HBK has taken on the best and, in most cases, beaten the best. As much as I do like Roode, it's laughable for him to beat Shawn Michaels.

 

[JXL]

Since the making of Beer Money, Roode has been at the head of that team ever since, and has made me a believer that he has what it takes to be World Champion over on TNA once Russo stops being a douche.

But I'll be damned if he can go over "Mr. Wrestlemania" cause like it or not, 2010 was all about hanging it up for Shawn Michaels, it was all a storytelling experience, just because you lose matches doesn't mean anything to this point of your career. On his best day, Michaels would put Roode's lights out with 1 Sweet Chin.

It would be one hell of a classic, a good 20+ minutes worth. HBK would win by a marginal edge.

 

[D-Man]

To vote against HBK in this round is just plain absurd. Sure, no one wants to see the same guys repeat in this tourney every year. But how can ANYONE put up an argument that Roode is better than HBK in any way, shape or form? I'm a fairly large Roode mark and he has quite the future in pro-wrestling but for the past 30 years, HBK was pro-wrestling. Like him or hate him, he is one of the best of all time.

 

[Tech N9ne]

I like Robert Roode. But it is too soon for him to have any kind of consideration to beat Shawn Michaels. Especially given the fact that he is strictly a tag team wrestler. He does have an occasional singles match, but at this point, I am sort of surprised that he doesn't have many.

So, as much as I like Robert Roode, his time in this Tournament just isn't now. He has time to make noise in this tournament one day, but 2011 is just a little too soon! So, I easily take HBK in this match.

 

[FightOwensFight]

Going to have to go with the recent consensus on this one and vote for HBK. Like Jack-Hammer and D-Man (and others) have pointed out, while Roode is very good (especially as a member of Beer Money), any consideration of his singles ability has to be taken based on potential. This isn't some keeper fantasy football league where drafting a guy you expect to be great for the next 5 years is a good idea. It's a tournament and nothing Roode has done by himself in wrestling suggests there is any way he would be able to take down "The Heart-Break Kid". To be honest, it is just unfortunate seeding as there a few matches in this bracket that if Roode where in a would have definitely voted for him in.

 

[ABMorales787]

I don't see wrong with Roode winning. And I'd gladly vote for him. He's perfectly capable of doing it. HBK's lost to smaller names before. Why stop now? Sid, Diesel, Orton, Kennedy, Edge. All before hitting their prime. I don't see wrong with Roode picking up his own victory with HBK.

Like I said. I'd vote for Roode easily. One problem though. It's Dallas Fucking Texas. Maybe not San Antonio, but what booker in their right mind would have their hometown boy lose to some outsider? Much less Canadian? This would be the opposite of HBK in Canada. People seem to be missing that point.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

I don't like Shawn Michaels... but there's no damn way Roode beats HBK in any shape, form, or fashion. I mean... HBK is the guy who does his best when the spotlight's on him. And Roode... hasn't even been a midcard champion. And if he has, I don't really give a shit. Because this is the ICON... the SHOWSTOPPAH!!!

HBK toys with Roode and hits Sweet Chin Music on both Roode and Flair and picks up the win over Rick Rude's illegitimate son.

 

[Find'er Woo'er Ryder]

This is a good one. I'm a huge fan of both Robert Roode and Shawn Michaels. Both are incredibly gifted in the ring and on the mic. However, I just like Robert Roode more. He has his character down to a beat and thats very important in the business. Robert is a future TNA champion if he stays with the company but if not I can see him holding the World Heavyweight Championship or even the WWE chapionship one day.

 

[UltimateHitman]

I really enjoyed all of the debate between these two competitors here. It's been pretty good so far.

I'm not going to try to talk up my vote. I was going to go w/the obvious because it was the most logical choice.

However, I just like Roode at the present time. HBK is a phenomenal athlete and I give him his props, even though I haven't been a huge, longtime fan of his.

Simply put, I voted for Roode just because. No attempt at justifying it, just personal preference at the moment. And I figured he could use a little boost since I was positive he would be outvoted anyway. I've been voting mostly based on thinking things through and hearing the arguments and making logical conclusions (for the most part), but I just wanted to have one or two guilty pleasures, and this vote was one of them.