Right to know vs. protectionism

[FromTheSouth]

From Foxnews.com

First-graders in San Francisco took a field trip to City Hall to celebrate the marriage of their lesbian teacher on Friday, but opponents of same-sex marriage in the state say the field trip was an attempt to “indoctrinate” the students, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

The field trip was suggested by a parent at the Creative Arts Charter School, and the school said the trip, where students tossed rose petals on their teacher and her wife as they left City Hall, was academically relevant.

"It really is what we call a teachable moment," said Liz Jaroslow, the school’s interim director, according to the newspaper. She said same-sex marriage had historic significance. "I think I'm well within the parameters."

California will vote on Nov. 4 on Proposition 8 which seeks to ban same-sex marriage in the state, and supporters of the measure say the field trip shows that allowing same-sex marriage will mean it’s taught to school children, the newspaper said.

"It's just utterly unreasonable that a public school field trip would be to a same-sex wedding," said Chip White, press secretary for the Yes on 8 campaign, told the Chronicle. "This is overt indoctrination of children who are too young to have an understanding of its purpose."

What do you guys think?

Is this an inappropriate field trip for young students.

I would say, yes. I am not a homophobe. I don't support gay marriage either. I think traditional values in America have gone to shit. And before anyone starts with traditionally slavery is all right.......I'm not stupid. There is a very big difference between imprisonment and gay right.

Gay people should be able to march and adopt and commit themselves to each other. But marriage, and the benefits it provides should be limited to a man and a woman, with two exceptions; adoption and hospital visits.

That is just an opinion, and no level of argument is going to change my mind on that. That being said...

There is a difference between a progressive school teaching tolerance and indoctrinating kids. So many times it seems as if pro-choice advocates want people to have abortions, as opposed to having the option. It also seems as if San Francisco has gone from pro-gay to encouraging it's very citizens to become gay. It's almost as if the environment most friendly to people coming out of the closet is bust building closets to throw kids into and pull them out when the time is right.

If the teacher wanted the children there, perhaps she should have sent invitations to the children's parents. It is the parents, and not the schools that should be talking to children about issues such as sexuality.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

Yeah, I am 100% for gay marriage, people have the right to do what they want. It's not hurting me any so why not let them get married and recieve the same benefits and good things that come with marriage. Anyways, I don't see any problem with it being a "gay" wedding, as long as the parents were informed of this before hand same if it was a "Traditional" marriage. Omg, the kids are gonna see two women getting married and maybe kiss. That is totally unreasonable and wrong the kids shouldn't have to see this. Ummm....it's a reality and you can't hide the world from your kids. People wouldn;t be up in arms if it was a man and women so why care now. I know parents want their children to grow up a certain way and stuff, but seriously this isn;t gonna screw them up any. Just my opinion though.

 

[FromTheSouth]

BUt it's only a reality there. It's not a reality in Texas, or New York, or Ohio. That's the difference. Pot is legal in California. Should we give the kids some dope too? No.

And to say it isn't harmful at that age might be a bit naive. Kids are impressionable at that age. Instead of thinking it is one kind of lifestyle, they are seeing their authority figure, and they might interpret that as their lifestyle. If someone wants to be gay that's cool, but should we encourage it? If these kids were told to be straight, the whole state of California would be up in arms over discrimination. I think this is the same, just the other way. There is a point where progressive life becomes naive and stupid, and this may be it.

The Progressive lifestyle is all about tolerance, but they are the least tolerant people ever. It seems ok for people to have public sex shows, but if someone shows any opposition to it, the Progresives attack. A true progressive would let both sides have their way, but for some reason, the entire city of San Fran just competes to see who can be the most tolerant and this has made them hedonists, and dare I say heretics.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

Yeah kids are impressionable, that is right. So kids should only go to same sex weddings...right? It's real life. People marry the same sex nowadays. Kids are gonna have to find it out sooner or later. What should kids only go to "normal" weddings and not be allowed to go to same sex weddings? What about inter-racial weddings, we don't want kids to think you have to marry the opposite color. I don't think really that she needed to take kids/students to the wedding regardless but I think it's kinda upsetting that she's getting flack because it was same-sex. If it was a man/women people wouldn't be upset.

And about pot being legal in California and should we give kids it, are you really comparing an illegal drugs to a person's sexual preference? It's pretty sad when people's human rights about who they can marry are being compared to drugs. I just think it's not gonna hurt kids to see it. It's natural and it's just the same as women and men getting married. The parents/teachers should just tell kids that it's their choice.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Yeah kids are impressionable, that is right. So kids should only go to same sex weddings...right?

As part of a school sponsored field-trip? Yes. If only this hadn't been a charter school. I would have loved to see the reaction to San Francisco schools indoctrinating kids this way. Put it next to kicking ROTC programs off campus, and I'm pretty sure it would have spelled the end of Pelosi.

It's real life. People marry the same sex nowadays.

Only there, which raises the question why not everywhere else? Because everywhere else still has a sense of tradition and family.

Kids are gonna have to find it out sooner or later.

I would vote adulthood, but how bout we compromise? After fourth fucking grade good enough for you? Or should we just tell kids that the Prince in Snow White should be a princess.

What should kids only go to "normal" weddings and not be allowed to go to same sex weddings?

As part of a school trip? Yes

What about inter-racial weddings, we don't want kids to think you have to marry the opposite color.

I see where you're going here. Too bad it's a terrible argument. It's not illegal for a black man to marry a white girl anywhere, so you're argument holds no water.

I don't think really that she needed to take kids/students to the wedding regardless but I think it's kinda upsetting that she's getting flack because it was same-sex. If it was a man/women people wouldn't be upset.

And this comment shows what is wrong with people. Kids have to grow up too fast. There is no need for a bunch of eight year olds to know what gay is. I like South Park, but I don't really want kids to be like that. I would much prefer they get to keep their innocence. Like I said, I don't like gay marriage, but whatever. I don't like abortion either, but whatever. I'm not trying to restrict their right to love who they want to love. The problem is where do we draw the line? Should polygamy be allowed? What about age minimums for consent? What if a man wants to marry a goat? I just assume keep the line where it is in 48 states. Behind closed doors, do what you want. Just keep it there.

And about pot being legal in California and should we give kids it, are you really comparing an illegal drugs to a person's sexual preference?

Not their preference. Just the expression. I don't like any PDA's.

It's pretty sad when people's human rights about who they can marry are being compared to drugs.

I think it's pretty sad that everyone can run around willy-nilly doing whatever they want and face no condemnation for things that are harmful to the fragile psychee of a child.

I just think it's not gonna hurt kids to see it. It's natural and it's just the same as women and men getting married. The parents/teachers should just tell kids that it's their choice.

Violent TV and movies have been shown to convince children to commit violent acts. Like I said, if you're born gay, cool, be gay. Don't try and take people over to the other side. I feel the same about people trying to change gay people into straight ones. Let people live their lives, but don't rub your alternative lifestyle into someone else's face. Like I said, progressives seem ok with letting people do whatever they want, as long as it's not question alternative behavior. That isn't tolerance, that's hypocrisy, and THAT sir is what progressive California school are teaching children these days.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

As part of a school sponsored field-trip? Yes. If only this hadn't been a charter school. I would have loved to see the reaction to San Francisco schools indoctrinating kids this way. Put it next to kicking ROTC programs off campus, and I'm pretty sure it would have spelled the end of Pelosi.

Why? Schools are not related to church and god anymore, or atleast here in Canada. It's religion that say's gay marriage is wrong, and schools are seperate from it so why should it matter? It's not something wrong so why should it be something kid's shouldn't see?

Only there, which raises the question why not everywhere else? Because everywhere else still has a sense of tradition and family.

Yeah, people who are not openminded. In Canada it's not illegal for gay marriage, what do we not no tradition? Traditions can and will change with time and society so it's gonna. Did you know my granddad was brought up being told smoking was good and that it was tradition for the males in his family to smoke? Wow we now no that's wrong so tradition changes. We know no gay people are not "infected" and "wrong" so traditions are changing aswell.

I would vote adulthood, but how bout we compromise? After fourth fucking grade good enough for you? Or should we just tell kids that the Prince in Snow White should be a princess.

Yes, your right. We should hide this from our kids. I mean these people are disgusting and wrong, our children shouldn't have to see this. God for bid they expand their thinking. But wait, they will think it's right....who's to say it's wrong.



As part of a school trip? Yes

I see where you're going here. Too bad it's a terrible argument. It's not illegal for a black man to marry a white girl anywhere, so you're argument holds no water.

Yeah, I mean in Afghanistan my black best friend can just go marry a girl from their...wait a minute???? Wait a minute back in the 1900's you mean a white girl could mary a black man? I think not. But the times changed just like they are doing now.

I think your right though. There is no need for 8 year olds to know what "gay" is. We should just move all gay people to their own state with no children under the age of 13 on it, right? And god forbid that one of this kids who went to the wedding has gay parents, that kid is surley messed up. Like I said I don't really think the kids needed to be their just because I see it as useless but their is nothing wrong with them going.

 

[Richard]

I think to a certain extent, children should have a right to know, but I think in some ways this field trip is questionable in some aspects of its intentions.

Firstly, I am straight but I'm all for gay/lesbian marriages, if two people love each other, then the gender should not matter and it's all good and well to see their teacher get married but I think that seeing her get married to a female can raise certain thoughts, ideas, questions etc. which I don't think 1st graders need at that young, impressionable age.

Both mysterio and south make good points, but I think the concept of gay/lesbian marriages are something first graders don't need on their mind at that age. If they were older, say 5th or 6th grade then I wouldn't have a problem with it but 1st graders don't need to know.

I wouldn't invite first graders to any wedding, I would be nervous they would just end up talking loudly through the whole thing.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

See, I sorta agree with you. The kids really didn't need to be there. They dont need to be at any wedding and it's obvious the teacher is a shit disturber, the thing is I don't think this is something you need to tell your kids at this age. But you can't hide it from them either. Take them anywhere and they may see a gay couple. If they ask what are you going to say? It's the same with anything "Sex" related you don't need to put it on kids but don't hide it either.

 

[FromTheSouth]

I'll try to answer.

Yes, we should hide gay marriage from kids. We should also hide drugs, porn, and crime from them. It is an alternative lifestyle, and that decision should come as an adult. Gay rights groups have gone from preaching that it's not wrong to be gay to preaching that it's wrong to not be overtly permissive. What's next? Live sex shows in the cafeteria. We have to draw the line somewhere, and since you edited that out of my lasy post, you agree with that.

And yes, some traditions do change. But why should we have to change them all. Just because a tiny segment of society wants something to be legal, that doesn't mean it has to be. There are more criminals than homosexuals. Maybe we should throw out the law books....

And gay marriage does hurt people. It undermines tax law, and delegitimizes real marriage. If we don't draw the line somewhere, then polygamists, bestialists, and pedophiles will want their day in church as well.

I am a lot more open minded than the law in most states. I think we should legalize hospital vistis for gay partners. I think gay couples should be able to adopt. I just think that marriage should remain sacred. And I also think that children should be a bit sheltered. People put locks on doors for a reasons.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

hahaha....so gay people are as bad as drug dealers, criminals, and porn stars. I cannot even find the energy to quote your posts and such, so this will be general. It's obvious your dead set one way and me another. I understand that, I just cannot believe there are people that think gays are just as bad as all of the above. Gay people are not bad, and they deserve the same rights as anyone else. So just because you love someone from the same sex you shouldn't get the same benefits. The thing you have to realize is this is how people 100 years ago and less thought about inter-racial couples. People didn't agree with that but it has become more socially accepted. People realize that gay people(unlike Pedos, polygamist) are not hurting anyone. Straight couples are not affected, negatively. Why should man and woman be the only option? Because the Bible said so? Well if your country is being run by a ancient book, then somethings wrong. I'm a christian and such but come on.

People were this way about racism and such and now look Black people are treated with the same respect as white people(by most anyways) and this is how gay people will be too.

 

[FromTheSouth]

hahaha....so gay people are as bad as drug dealers, criminals, and porn stars. I cannot even find the energy to quote your posts and such, so this will be general. It's obvious your dead set one way and me another. I understand that, I just cannot believe there are people that think gays are just as bad as all of the above. Gay people are not bad, and they deserve the same rights as anyone else. So just because you love someone from the same sex you shouldn't get the same benefits. The thing you have to realize is this is how people 100 years ago and less thought about inter-racial couples. People didn't agree with that but it has become more socially accepted. People realize that gay people(unlike Pedos, polygamist) are not hurting anyone. Straight couples are not affected, negatively. Why should man and woman be the only option? Because the Bible said so? Well if your country is being run by a ancient book, then somethings wrong. I'm a christian and such but come on.

People were this way about racism and such and now look Black people are treated with the same respect as white people(by most anyways) and this is how gay people will be too.

The point is that there needs to be a line. I wasn't comparing gay people to criminals in degree of danger to society, I was comparing them in percentage of the population. The argument was that just because one small percentage of society wants something legal, doesn't mean we should make it so. This country was decided on the idea of majority rule, and progressives have made the majority out to be so tyrranical, unjustly, that nothing is condmened anymore, and even worse, nothing is questioned. Like I said, someone needs to draw a line before there are live sex shows oin the playground.

 

[Gelgarin]

I would vote adulthood, but how bout we compromise? After fourth fucking grade good enough for you? Or should we just tell kids that the Prince in Snow White should be a princess.

You see this is where the international homophobia society fall flat on their face. No we should not tell kids that the Prince should be a Princess. We should tell them that the Prince COULD be a Princess.
There is nobody, anyware in the world who wants to line a classroom full of children up and say "Right. I want all of you to be homosexuals". The message being spread is simply that being homosexual is OK, which I honestly don't think anybody of sound mind can argue with without resorting to blatent hate preaching, and at that point you loose your right to have an oppinion because your a bigot.

I see where you're going here. Too bad it's a terrible argument. It's not illegal for a black man to marry a white girl anywhere, so you're argument holds no water.

I'm pretty sure it used to be. And I'm pretty sure when people like us started to question it's illegality it was people like you who were somplaining about who interracial marage was a violation of traditional values.
These days the radical right wing can't get any credibility preaching hatred of blacks; so the they've moved on to gays instead. I dread to think who'll be next once society liberalises.

Should polygamy be allowed?

If it is between concenting adults then yes. It's been legal in a large numbe rof couteries for a large part of history and the moral fabric of society hasn't collapsed. The only reason it's illegal now is becasue of intollerent people and a few lines of holy verse.

What if a man wants to marry a goat?

Ahh. You see now your getting onto trickier moral ground. Technicly it is impossible for a goat to give concent, so I'll appreciate that there may be an argument here. Alternatly, the goat that marries a man will allmost certainly have a better quality of life than the goat that doesn't, so I guess it's a complex question. For now I'm going to say that I'm fine with it as long as the goat is well treated. Then it's basicly just pet ownership with an extra piece of paper. Upsettinging to the 'traditional values' crowd. But as has allready been established the traditional values crowd get a huge kick out of hating people different from themselves, so we'll ignor them.

I think it's pretty sad that everyone can run around willy-nilly doing whatever they want and face no condemnation for things that are harmful to the fragile psychee of a child.

Lol.

Like I said, if you're born gay, cool, be gay.

Except under your plan Children are to be shielded from homosexuality and overtly taught that it is something abnormal and to be ashmed of. That's why you have so many repressed homosexuals out there struggling to come to terms with their own sexuality. Personally I'm for anything that helps reduse peoples suffering.

 

[My$terio_Fan]

The argument was that just because one small percentage of society wants something legal.

I'm not gay and I want gay marriage to be leaglized. My best friend isn't gay and she want's gay marriage to be legalized. I think it's ignorant for you to think that only gays(small percentage)wants gay marriage to be legal. I think in America(I maybe wrong though) that it was pretty much 50/50 except in some areas which were more against and some areas that were more for. Also who cares if only a small percentage of people want it to be legalized. You compared it with criminals for the fact more people are criminals and want crimes to be legalized but the difference is gay marriage really isn't hurting anyone except people who are not open minded, just like racism back in the day. The more that its out in the open the more people will accept it and realize it's not bad at all.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Welcome back, bud, long time no see.

You seem to be mistaken about the whole point of the thread. You see, a group of children being taken to a gay wedding as part of school field trip is not right. It is indoctrination.

I am saying that if someone wants to be gay, then be gay, but don't push it in people's faces. Taking a bunch of elementary kids to a gay wedding is confusing. They aren't learning anything.

It's similar to people who only have a view of China from the Olympics. There is good and bad, but a gay wedding, much like an opening ceremony, only shows the good. Is there a Freddie Mercury section in the textbook?


And I will never agree that children under the age of ten should not be shielded from some of society's hidden gems. Let kids be kids.

The job of parents is to answer kids questions, not to provide them with questions paired with ready made answers.


Do you find in coincidental that the countries that permit polygamy are the same ones that fly airplanes into our buildings? Overly restrictive societies are just as bad as overly permissive ones, and we;ve been doing pretty good for 200 years falling right into the middle.

But like I said, good to see you back around.

I'm not gay and I want gay marriage to be leaglized. My best friend isn't gay and she want's gay marriage to be legalized. I think it's ignorant for you to think that only gays(small percentage)wants gay marriage to be legal. I think in America(I maybe wrong though) that it was pretty much 50/50 except in some areas which were more against and some areas that were more for. Also who cares if only a small percentage of people want it to be legalized. You compared it with criminals for the fact more people are criminals and want crimes to be legalized but the difference is gay marriage really isn't hurting anyone except people who are not open minded, just like racism back in the day. The more that its out in the open the more people will accept it and realize it's not bad at all.

You're wrong. if it was 50/50 politicians would take sides on this, but they all agree in major elections, and are all against actual marriage. It might be 50% want it illegal, and 50% either want it legal or don't care, with a great majority of those not caring. I know gay people that think the idea of gay marriage is deplorable. They grew up with two parents, who are understanding, and not preachy. They just feel that gay marriage makes a mockery of real marriage.

 

[Gelgarin]

*Has never heard a historical example of the Mormon people being anything less than hospitable, regardless how much they were persecuted by the rest of America*

Do you find in coincidental that the countries that permit polygamy are the same ones that fly airplanes into our buildings?

Gosh. Which country was that? I think we're in need of a little geography lesson here. Polygamy frequently has and is practiced by traditionalist Christians, Muslims, Buddhists (allthough they don't officially marry), and by small isolated groups of Hindu's and Sekks.
If we extend this lesson to include historical examples; we can include most of the known world at one time or another. So no, I don't find it coincidental at all. I find it inacurate.

Taking a bunch of elementary kids to a gay wedding is confusing. They aren't learning anything.

Their learning that homosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of. Which this convosation is rapidly teaching me is a lesson that some people would do well to learn. It is a historicly established fact that ignorance breads resentment and hate; so let's not encourage it.

You see, a group of children being taken to a gay wedding as part of school field trip is not right. It is indoctrination.

No it's not. A group of children being taken to, and forced to partisipate in, a gay sex orgy is indoctrination. Presenting them with an exaple of a woman they've all known for a year publicly professing her love is as educational as it would be if the woman was straight. The education lesson being "isn't love nice". Another one that people would do well to remember.

 

[FromTheSouth]

*Has never heard a historical example of the Mormon people being anything less than hospitable, regardless how much they were persecuted by the rest of America*

Saudi's, Iranians.......

The countries that practice polygamy today.

Their learning that homosexuality is nothing to be ashamed of. Which this convosation is rapidly teaching me is a lesson that some people would do well to learn. It is a historicly established fact that ignorance breads resentment and hate; so let's not encourage it.

First graders are not learning anything. They don't about the dichotomy that exists between the sides of this debate. You and I could sit them down and explain it all to them using M&M and Disney toys as examples, adn they wouldn't get it. What they do get is that their authority figure is doing something, and they should model themselves after that practice whether or not it is coded in their DNA. That, my friend, is not education, but indoctrination. That is the same as preaching a political agenda. That is not the purpose of school.

I am not ignorant either, and your constant assertion that I am ignorant and a fascist because I disagree with you is the reason that society lashes out against Progressives. This is why middle America hates Pelosists. When someone disagrees with you, you resort to name calling. You call people ignorant because their view is different than your's. That, by definition is ignorance. You are the ignorant buffoon who can't understand that taking away children's innocence is how they become strippers, pedophiles, porn stars, etc. You might be Uncle George touching them, but by removing the idea that something may be wrong, you step on a slippery slope to depravity. If you are of an age to understand something, you should learn about it. Movies are rated for a reason. Head shops ask for ideas for a reason. And I'm sorry, but for anyone who thinks that a gay wedding is somewhere to take a fucking field trip of first graders, then that person is depraved wacko, a pervert, and a danger to society. See you don't like it either.

No it's not. A group of children being taken to, and forced to partisipate in, a gay sex orgy is indoctrination. Presenting them with an exaple of a woman they've all known for a year publicly professing her love is as educational as it would be if the woman was straight. The education lesson being "isn't love nice". Another one that people would do well to remember.

Sorry, not everything is flowers and candy for adults, but for first graders it should be, and the schools are forcing children and parents to ahve a conversation that the parents are not ready to have yet.

And I never stated being gay was bad. I have gay friends and I ask them questions about mind state and how they are treated. But then again, I'm not a first grader.

 

[Gelgarin]

Saudi's, Iranians.......

The countries that practice polygamy today.

It's very hard for you to take the moral high ground regarding me calling you ignorant when you say things like this.
For a start; anyone who actually knows what their talking about regarding Iran known that as a nation it is liberalising considerably faster than most of it's fellow middle eastern countries. It has a redical outmodled government who are dependend on stiring up conflict with the west in order to maintain popular support. If you look at the youth of Iran you'll find a collection of people who'se moral code is very close to your own. A long way north of mine, but pretty close to where you seem to be standing.
Secondly, and more importantly, Polygamy has next to no public support in Iran. It is legal under their legslative system becasue their law is set by the clerics and the clerics follow Sharia law which proclaims it legal. Nevertheless, if you take the time to leave first impressions behind and look at the country, you'd find that polygamy is only slightly more common than it is in the US.

That is the same as preaching a political agenda.

Year. I can remember in my youth being taught that black people were my social equals and that Women were equal to men. I can remember being taught about and introduced to dissabled people, and given lessons on cultures other than my own. Preaching humanatarianism and common decency is fine.

I am not ignorant either, and your constant assertion that I am ignorant and a fascist because I disagree with you is the reason that society lashes out against Progressives...

That, by definition is ignorance.

I think you'll find that "by definition" it is not. I think you'll find that if you look 'ignorant' up in a dictionary it means to be uninformed or lack knowledge. And when you make comments like the one I highlighted above then it's not a word I will loose any sleep over.

You are the ignorant buffoon who can't understand that taking away children's innocence is how they become strippers, pedophiles, porn stars, etc.

And I'm sorry, but for anyone who thinks that a gay wedding is somewhere to take a fucking field trip of first graders, then that person is depraved wacko, a pervert, and a danger to society.

And once again I fear you will be sent toppleing from the high ground you seak to claim. I'm going to totally overlook the fact that you resorted to calling me a pervert a few dozen words after condemning me for calling you ignorant, and I'll tell you why.

You just directly linked homosexuality to pedophilia and social depravity. In other words you just crossed the line.

Well done. Your a bigot. I win.

 

[FromTheSouth]

It's very hard for you to take the moral high ground regarding me calling you ignorant when you say things like this.
For a start; anyone who actually knows what their talking about regarding Iran known that as a nation it is liberalising considerably faster than most of it's fellow middle eastern countries. It has a redical outmodled government who are dependend on stiring up conflict with the west in order to maintain popular support. If you look at the youth of Iran you'll find a collection of people who'se moral code is very close to your own. A long way north of mine, but pretty close to where you seem to be standing.
Secondly, and more importantly, Polygamy has next to no public support in Iran. It is legal under their legslative system becasue their law is set by the clerics and the clerics follow Sharia law which proclaims it legal. Nevertheless, if you take the time to leave first impressions behind and look at the country, you'd find that polygamy is only slightly more common than it is in the US.



Year. I can remember in my youth being taught that black people were my social equals and that Women were equal to men. I can remember being taught about and introduced to dissabled people, and given lessons on cultures other than my own. Preaching humanatarianism and common decency is fine.



I think you'll find that "by definition" it is not. I think you'll find that if you look 'ignorant' up in a dictionary it means to be uninformed or lack knowledge. And when you make comments like the one I highlighted above then it's not a word I will loose any sleep over.





And once again I fear you will be sent toppleing from the high ground you seak to claim. I'm going to totally overlook the fact that you resorted to calling me a pervert a few dozen words after condemning me for calling you ignorant, and I'll tell you why.

You just directly linked homosexuality to pedophilia and social depravity. In other words you just crossed the line.

Well done. Your a bigot. I win.

I didn't link homosexuality to pedophilia. What I said was taking away the innocence of children is how they wind up pedophiles. If you expose them to alternative sexuality, they seek alternative sexuality. If you expose them to violence, they seek violence.

I resorted to calling you a pervert to illustrate how childish you were by calling me ignorant. Note the phrase, "see, you don't like it too much either."


Now, to knock you off your moral high ground.....

You can continually act as if the fight for gay marriage rights is the new civil rights march, and that's fine. You can make all the signs you want, and spend all the time marching you want. And, you can have my blessing.

What you have continually failed to do is tell me where to draw the line. What is appropriate for first graders? At some point, you have to say something isn't right for them right? Well, I choose to draw the line sooner. And you know what, at no point is it appropriate for the school to choose for us, either of us. That is the argument here. What if gay parents got mad that their child was taken to a straight, traditional wedding in a church? Is the church more harmful to kids than homosexuality? The parent would have every right to be mad.

Where should the schools draw the line? I believe that line shoujld be drawn somewhere short of taking kids to a gay wedding, especially first graders. How does that draw such ire to you?

Perhaps you keep veering off topic and calling me names is because you have no argument that is good enough to post. Perhaps you keep defending homosexuality, which I have never attacked because you have latent feeling that you are too embarrassed to acknowledge. That is none of my business. But my argument remains, and will forever remain, that no matter what any adult chooses to do, no first grader should have to be indoctrinated in alternative lifestyles.

If we are going to keep the church out of school, perhaps we should keep that which opposes the law of the church out as well? That seems fair to me? I don't want the school indoctrinating my children about Jesus anymore than I want them going to gay weddings.


(Don't give me an evolution argument, I said church law, not bible stories.)

 

[Tim]

It is inappropriate for kids that young. If two people of the same sex want to get married, then they can if that's what will make them happy. But a teacher should not take her class to her gay marriage unless the parents allow them to. And from what I can see, she didn't even ask the parents if it was OK, which I think is just downright sickening. She just took them, and there might have been some religous kids in that class. Imagine what their parents' reactions would have been when the kids told them about it! The school always ask the parents before they take their kids on field trips, why didn't they for this one?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Great thread! I owe you rep.

Now..there is NO reason why these children shouldn't have been allowed to go to her wedding. Seeing a same sex wedding isn't going to make you want to be a lesbian or be gay. And anyone that says it is is stupid.

Homophobia is a huge problem in this world. I have gay friends who talk about it, about how they can't walk down the street together without disapproving looks and stares. And who are these usually off? The older generation. Why? Because it's not something they understand, or are used to. That's the main reason people dislike homosexuals. Now, this feild trip is a good thing because it's showing these children it's not a bad thing. They're growing up with this, and there's no better way for them to know something is okay than to see someone look up to do it.

 

[LigerBomb]

Especially since the trip was initially suggested by a parent the remaining ones should have had a say in whether or not their children could/should participate. It was obviously an attempt at indoctrination

 

[HBK-aholic]

Parent's HAVE to give permission for their child to be taken out of school. That's how it is in England, anyway. One summer when I was younger, we wanted to go to the park across the road from school. We weren't allowed because we didn't have parents permission. So they had to organise it, like a real field trip, for us to cross the road. So I doubt they'd have been allowed to take children to a wedding without parents being contacted about it.

 

[LigerBomb]

Parent's HAVE to give permission for their child to be taken out of school. That's how it is in England, anyway. One summer when I was younger, we wanted to go to the park across the road from school. We weren't allowed because we didn't have parents permission. So they had to organise it, like a real field trip, for us to cross the road. So I doubt they'd have been allowed to take children to a wedding without parents being contacted about it.

The original post makes no mention of it and through reading the other replies it was brought up as a point of contention. If however permissions where required/obtained then there really is no point to the backlash as stated on FoxNews.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I haven't had any official source saying parents permission was given, however, I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most places to take a child out of school like that without their permission. There is absolutely no need for this backlash. It seems these people are more afraid of homophobia being wiped out. Because that's eventually what this could lead to. Not a complete stop, but if this became something a lot of schoolchildren were exposed to, they could learn it's not a bad thing, and it's not wrong. It could really give some people a better life. Yet all these campaigners are bothered abotu is people not being homophobic, because if they're not, no one will carry on their Anti-same sex marriage campaigns when they die.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Well, for one, it's a charter school, which goes by different rules. Secondly, I still think this is an inappropriate SCHOOL activity. It is for the parents to decide whether or not they want their children to know about any behavior. Now if every parent in the class gave approval, and was aware of all the details, then my argument is null. If one child was left at the school, while the others were there, then that FIRST GRADER would feel left out, isolated, and alone, and would be too young to know that it wasn't his fault. He would have no idea that he did nothing wrong. He would feel anger at the gay community, and not know why. It would be subconscious, and this anger would manifest later if nurtured by a source he held close to him. (That year as a psych major just paid off)

But the whole debate is balanced upon who should be teaching these children about the gay community. I do not feel that the school's job is to indoctrinate the children. It is the parent's responsibility, and any parents who shoved this responsibility off on the school should be ashamed.

And, because of the way the schools have butchered sex education into a crash course on fear mongering, I bet if you asked your gay friends, they would prefer that sexual identity was taught in the home instead of the school.

And if you owe me rep, I'm, holding you to it......