The Double Standard of Death in WWE

[Con T.]

Surprisingly enough, this has nothing to do with WWE proper; so let me provide a more accurate (and less alliterative) name....let's talk about the double standard of death in the WWE universe.

By now, much has been made about the angle ran last Monday. It's become a war ground for the PC VS. Anti-PC war, with it being called tacky, tasteless, and revolting. Personally, I didn't mind the angle, but I do mind that WWE didn't think to call Ric or Elizabeth Fliehr about the angle.

That said, if you did find the angle tacky, more power to you. For better or worse, it was the WWE cashing in on a real life tragedy. And let's be clear about one thing; WWE ran the angle, in a way to profit off the real life tragedy. And sometimes in the wrestling business, you do that. Remember that this is the same business in which we trotted out German and Japanese heels, in part to implicitly connect the characters with the atrocities of the Holocaust and Pearl Harbor. This is par for the course with wrestling; it is what it is.

Still, if you were offended by the nature of Reid's death being used for profit, then I understand why you're upset. There's just one question that I legitimately have for you;

You gonna buy that Owen Hart Blu-Ray when it drops?

I'm actually quite curious how people are going to take this, and how people respond to this. And before I got called out for making false equivalencies, I'll just go ahead and make the case against every argument that I know I'm going to hear:

Owen's DVD isn't exploiting his death, it's celebrating his life!

It can be both, but make no mistake about it; part of the reason Owen's getting the DVD treatment is absolutely the nature in which he died.

Allow me to present to you the title reigns of three WWE superstars, who worked at roughly the same time. I want you to tell me if you could honestly spot out which one is Owen Hart:

Wrestler A:

WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)
WWF Tag Team Championship (3 times)


Wrestler B:

WWF Intercontinental Championship (2 times)
WWF European Championship (1 time)
WWF World Tag Team Championship



Wrestler C:
WWF European Championship (4 times)
WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)


Wrestler D:
WWF European Championship (1 time)
WWF Hardcore Championship (2 times)
WWF Intercontinental Championship (1 time)
WWF Tag Team Championship (1 time)


If you guessed that Owen Hart was wrestler B, then you'd be correct. But I ask you to guess the names of the other three wrestlers I mentioned?

Give up?

Spoiler

Jacques Rougeau, D'Lo Brown, and Test.

I see no one clamoring for a Fabulous Rougeau retrospective, a Lo Down chronicling, or the like.

The point is, if we're looking at careers, Owen never really had that much of a storied career. He was a career mid-card wrestler, just like the other three I mentioned.

So, then we come to seeing if the Hart family makes any difference, which it might. But there's already a Hart and Soul DVD that exists, so I'm less sure it has to do with the Hart family name.

Part of the reason this DVD is going to exist, is because WWE knows they can profit off of the death of Owen Hart. He's one of the most mercurial cases in wrestling, the wrestler who was taken before his time. We tend to do with just about every wrestler who passes.

So, at least in part, this DVD does exist because of the tragic nature of Owen's death. WWE knows this, and yet they will profit off of it.

Fuck you, Haiku. I want to have my own way of remembering Owen Hart. So do other fans.

Question; how many of you have the Network?

Because probably 80% of this DVD, you will find on the Network. You mau find a match from Memphis or a Calgary match isn't there, but most of this DVD will focus on his WWE career.

You'll get some documentary stuff, but it's probably all stuff you already know. Is about 20% new content (at best) worth your $20+?

By buying the DVD, you're simply lining up the pockets the McMahons. Which brings me to;

The Hart Family wanted this!

Somewhat; members of the Hart family wanted this. This one gets complicated, but at the end of the day, Martha Hart decided that she did not want this DVD. This DVD is happening without Martha's blessing, and that's something that seems to be a common thread in WWE. The WWE gives precisely no fucks how this benefits the family of their wrestlers. If last Monday didn't make that abundantly clear, I don't know what does.

Martha didn't want this, period. And I think I'm more inclined to sympathize with the woman who's lost her husband, from the same company looking to profit off his death.

How do you know they're profiting off it?!

If they were donating the proceeds to charity...hell, if they were giving the money to Martha...you really think WWE wouldn't publicize it as much as possible?

You and I both know this is going to WWE's pockets. Which, again, is their right. You can think it's scummy, but that's business.

If you're outraged by last Monday, I encourage you to look in the mirror, and consider just how much you do support when WWE makes a profit off of death. None of this is new; but if you support WWE like when they make the Owen DVD, I dare say you're doing the same thing as those that supported Monday's angle.

So, the question I pose to you is this;

Is there any difference between what happened last Monday, and what WWE is doing with Owen?

If you are upset with what happened last Monday, do you still plan to buy the Owen DVD?

If so, what exactly is the difference?

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

I think one huge difference is that Owen Hart was a very well known name in the WWE. Reid Flair was not.

The Owen DVD, if done in the right way, will look at his accomplishments in the ring, as a performer. All the fans knew Owen as the performer, and if the DVD stays on that theme I don't see an issue.

Reid was no part of the WWE, he had no direct connection with it himself really. Obviously his father and sister, but how many of the locker room would have known Reid on a personal level, like the locker room knew Owen?

I am in no way trivialising his death, but as an impact on the WWE itself, Reid was a lot less.

Now to the point of it being brought up on Monday night, given the status of Ric in the company, I'm quite surprised he wasn't consulted....BUT...Charlotte is a big girl. Ric has said that she wouldn't be in a position to say No yet....BUT....if she really felt like it was wrong then it was up to her to step up. Career or not, your family comes first.

Now if she gave it the go ahead, I don't have an issue with it. If charlotte agreed that it was ok, who are we to disagree with her?

 

[Navi]

No I won't be buying the DVD, simply because I just don't buy WWE DVD's. If I want to watch something I go to the On Demand channel and watch it there. Call me cheap, but I consider since I'm paying for the Network every month why go buy something I've already paid for. Horrible excuse but my husband is a banker and that's how he rolls.

As for the difference, well it's a blurry line. An Owen Hart DVD would highlight his life in the ring, matches, promo's etc. It's a way for fans to either relive his glory days or new fans to find out who and what he did. Regardless of where the money goes, it's a way to honour his career as a WWE Superstar. Honestly I've seen some of the DVD's my son has one or two and they are very tastefully and professionally done.

The RAW incident was completely different. Most fans in attendance there and probably a lot watching would have had no idea who Reid Flair was and how he died. He wasn't in the WWE that long, and even though the Flair name is big, it's not as big as the Hart Dynasty. The way it came off last week, was just a way for Paige to get cheap heat, and wasn't done in a way to honour Reid Flair. As a matter of fact it was very dishonorable the way it came about. Besides from what I read their mother and father weren't informed of the decision to bring up his name.

The difference is this. It would be like Paige saying to Nattie, "Oh you think your family is so wonderful, well they aren't. Look at your Uncle Owen, thought he could fly and couldn't". You get the drift. The WWE is honouring Owen Hart and knocking Reid Flair. That's the main difference.

 

[Con T.]

I think one huge difference is that Owen Hart was a very well known name in the WWE. Reid Flair was not.

The Owen DVD, if done in the right way, will look at his accomplishments in the ring, as a performer. All the fans knew Owen as the performer, and if the DVD stays on that theme I don't see an issue.

Reid was no part of the WWE, he had no direct connection with it himself really. Obviously his father and sister, but how many of the locker room would have known Reid on a personal level, like the locker room knew Owen?

I am in no way trivialising his death, but as an impact on the WWE itself, Reid was a lot less.

The difference is this. It would be like Paige saying to Nattie, "Oh you think your family is so wonderful, well they aren't. Look at your Uncle Owen, thought he could fly and couldn't". You get the drift. The WWE is honouring Owen Hart and knocking Reid Flair. That's the main difference.

I'll respond to you both in one post, as you seem to make the same argument; that this is an honor for Owen.

How? In what way does this honor Owen?

DVDs get made all of the time. I guess you could say WWE found him memorable enough to actually make a DVD. But at the end of the day, both were used by the promotion for profit.

WWE used Reid Flair (which people do know about. If they didn't, there'd be no need to even point to him) to further a storyline, that they hope more people will watch their PPV for.

WWE is using Owen Hart's likeness (against his wife's will) to profit off a DVD that will only line their pockets.

Regardless of how significant both were to WWE history, they're being used for the same purpose.

 

[#tamale]

I think one huge difference is that Owen Hart was a very well known name in the WWE. Reid Flair was not.

True...

The Owen DVD, if done in the right way, will look at his accomplishments in the ring, as a performer. All the fans knew Owen as the performer, and if the DVD stays on that theme I don't see an issue.

The is not the most likely scenario. The major points this DVD will probably hit are Owen growing up in the business, his feud with Bret, Wrestlemania X, and his tragic death. I think some will miss the point Haiku is trying to make. Owen's career is not a storied career, but a nice career. Owen's death and the controversy that followed is what has made Owen marketable.

 

[Con T.]

I think some will miss the point Haiku is trying to make. Owen's career is not a storied career, but a nice career. Owen's death and the controversy that followed is what has made Owen marketable.

I should have articulated this point better, but Tamale is saying what I was trying to say, here.

Owen Hart, God bless him, was rarely (if ever) a viable main event star. I'm not saying this to denigrate his career, it's just a factual statement. Owen Hart had a very short run at the main event, and was essentially a mid carder for his career.

Owen Hart is, essentially, Cody Rhodes. Would you give Cody Rhodes his own DVD, with a retrospective of his career?

So, why are you giving it to Owen Hart?

Partly, because of Owen's death. And in turn, the WWE realizes it, and aims to profit off of his death.

In spite of his families wishes, WWE is making a conscientious decision to use his death to further their own business. Doesn't that sound a whole lot like last Monday night?

 

[Mustang Sally]

Part of the reason this DVD is going to exist, is because WWE knows they can profit off of the death of Owen Hart.

Part of the reason, yes. Although many businesses have been damned for looking to make profits for themselves by using significant events, that's the way it works and doesn't offend me..............and death, even of someone a lot of people didn't particularly care about in life.....makes a great subject for tribute. People love it and will buy the merchandise because the poor person died. It honors them even as it's producing profits....that's how business works.

As for the idea of using Owen's death to make money......or using Reid Flair's name in a skit.......it simply doesn't bother me. A couple decades ago, subjects like this were used in movies, TV, comedy club routines (Hello, Don Rickles!) and other productions. They were regarded as funny then......and often cause outrage and high blood pressure now.

On a personal basis, subjects meant to entertain us don't send me into spasms of rage. That's my choice. If you choose to be infuriated, that's yours.

 

[Con T.]

On a personal basis, subjects meant to entertain us don't send me into spasms of rage. That's my choice. If you choose to be infuriated, that's yours.

As I mentioned, I wasn't offended.

Thing is, Reid's death also didn't personally affect me. Nor did Owen's, if I'm being perfectly honest. I'm not saying we should all be outraged because WWE chose to say something on television. I'm saying the real issue is when WWE ignores (and, in Owen's case, goes right against) the family in which is directly impacted by this.

I'm not offended. But do we have any right to tell Ric, Elizabeth, and Martha not to be?

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Nothing WWE has ever done is nearly as thoughtless, heartless, callous, or revolting as referring to anything regarding Owen Hart as "dropping". Burn in hell OP!

Otherwise, I don't give a shit about an Owen DVD. It has been years since his death and I imagine WWE is not going to trivialize his death on the DVD. They certainly trivialized Reid's death making it part of that segment on Monday. It made no sense in 2015 when I know Paige is going to be acting flirty in her next radio interview, or silly on Twitter, or provocative on Total Divas. It makes it worse that some day Charlotte and Paige will be aligned again like it never happened.

My biggest issue is with the stat sheet myopathy of the idea that Owen was "just" a mid carder. If you believe that then you don't understand professional wrestling or you're trolling. Owen has fans. He had them before he died. Lots of Canadians worship the guy and lots of others cared about him and remember fondly his career.

The comparison overall between Reid and Owen is bs. Especially since no one has actually seen the DVD yet or how it is being promoted. Do you really believe WWE is really going to focus that much on a death they essentially caused? Have you met Vince's lack of reality and perspective?

 

[MTL722]

I get the OP's point (however, I must admit I only scanned it because that shit was crazy long).

The comparison of titles is a little misguided tho. I mean, you could throw in half of today's roster and they would have more WWE championships than Owen. But people don't remember Owen for being a championship winner, they remember him for being a Hart, and that means more than those championships

His feud with Bret felt real and probably was to a degree. That's what I'll remember Owen for. Obviously, when someone dies as horrifically as he did, that's something people will remember. But to say that his death is being exploited for DVD sales is, again, misguided

Reid Flairs death was not exploited because WWE did not make a profit off of it. IMHO, nobody is going to buy Survivor Series specifically to see Paige Vs Charlotte. I could be wrong, I just don't see it. Owens death is not being exploited with a DVD for the same reason. They are not advertising his death. They are advertising his career

By the OP's standard, anyone that dies should not have a DVD made about them. You could convince me that WWE exploited Warriors death. You could convince me that WWE exploited Eddies death. But in this particular case involving Owen Hart, I don't see it as the same thing

And 1 last thing before I go. I had no problem with Reid being brought up. I have no problem with Ric and Elizabeth not knowing about it. I have no problem if WWE told Charlotte she had to go there. I have a problem with people that are offended who had no connection to Reid or the Flair family. Empathy and sympathy are one thing, outrage is another. I hate apologists.

 

[Con T.]

Otherwise, I don't give a shit about an Owen DVD. It has been years since his death and I imagine WWE is not going to trivialize his death on the DVD.

Surely, no. But they are trivializing the wishes of his wife, which is pretty scummy. I'm not saying that these two are equals, I just don't see how they aren't profiting off death.

They could lionize the man. They could make him look like a God amongst mortals. The reality is, a lot of the appeal of Owen Hart is his tragic death. Which WWE is cashing in on.

They certainly trivialized Reid's death making it part of that segment on Monday. It made no sense in 2015 when I know Paige is going to be acting flirty in her next radio interview, or silly on Twitter, or provocative on Total Divas. It makes it worse that some day Charlotte and Paige will be aligned again like it never happened.

I can't dispute this (though there is something to say about being 23, and not really having much of a head on your shoulders). But again, what is more bothersome is the way WWE trivializes the wishes of family, and how they're going to react to things like this.

And in that same vein, is what happened to Martha really any different than Ric or Elizabeth? We may not look at this DVD as if it is trivializing the death of Owen Hart, but I'm sure Martha would. I'm sure Martha would say you're looking at the life of her husband, and placing it on display for profit, long after his death.

Do I look at it as being trivial? No, but I'm not the widow, either.

My biggest issue is the stat sheet myopathy of the idea that Owen was just a mid carder

I mean, I know it doesn't really matter, but aside from his 94 push...he kind of was?

Again, I really don't mean to denigrate his career. The comparison I went to is Cody Rhodes. Name legacy, won plenty of titles, plenty of memorable angles. There's nothing wrong with Owen Hart being a mid-carder. But if we're being honest here, the credentials of his career get overshadowed by his death.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

I dont plan to buy DVD because I really cant buy anything WWE based in my country. if I want can buy it thru internet but pretty sure shipping of DVD would be almost as same price as DVD itself.

As for WWE and exploits, I dont know why it suprises you. Here, look at Eddies DVD just after his death

http://prowrestling.wikia.com/wiki/Cheating_Death,_Stealing_Life:_The_Eddie_Guerrero_Story

If you argue about midcard status of Owen Hart and that he doesnt deserve it, its widely known fact that people after their death automaticly gain value in terms of popularity and automaticly (for reasons that after somebody is dead you almost always say "he was a great man") gain greatness. Look at Paul Walker. Or Brittany Murphy. Heck, Heath Ledger even won an Oscar post mortem. Heck, James Deen has only 3 movies but is considered as one of the greatest actors ever. Not saying all those people arent good or great but their tragic death had brought them more fame and were considered even better then they might actually was. So cant blame WWE for trying to exploit that fact, they are corporation hunting for more money.

 

[OYDK]

I'm not offended. But do we have any right to tell Ric, Elizabeth, and Martha not to be?

Of course not. I have no right to tell YOU not to be offended, never mind the families actually impacted by this.

That being said, it doesn't really affect the way I look at these sort of things. Martha was very resentful towards WWE because of Owens death, and she obviously had a right to be, but I think fans should be allowed to buy Owen merch without feeling as if we're contributing to the profiting of his death. That's just BS. Maybe WWE is using this Owen DVD as a way of lining their pockets, but that doesn't mean people that buy it directly contribute to this exploitation. A lot of people were fans and miss seeing Owen on TV despite his mid-card career, believe it or not. Fans shouldn't be demonized for buying a dead wrestler's merch just because McMahon gets the cheque in his pocket at the end of the day.

As for the Reid Flair mention, I do feel bad for Ric and his wife for not being consulted. That must have sucked. But Charlotte gave the go ahead and I can't treat her as the victim if she voluntarily agreed to this. Since I really wasn't offended by the Flair thing, I guess I'm not the best guy to comment on this but oh well.

To answer your questions:

1. There is a difference and I think it's already been brought up. Owen was beloved by wrestling fans worldwide, Reid wasn't very well known. To mention Reid could be seen as classless because he really has nothing to do with WWE. With Owen, it's not just bringing up the name of a dead person for the sake of bringing it up. There's a legitimate reason to have an Owen DVD, there was no real reason to include Reid in that promo. People have been wanting an Owen DVD forever.

2. Not upset, wasn't going to buy the DVD anyway but has nothing to do with profiting off his death. Like you said, everything on it will be on the Network anyway.

 

[Con T.]

I get the OP's point (however, I must admit I only scanned it because that shit was crazy long).

I suggest reading the whole thing, especially if you're going to comment.

This isn't completely directed at you, there are plenty of people who see length, and immediately tune away.

The comparison of titles is a little misguided tho. I mean, you could throw in half of today's roster and they would have more WWE championships than Owen. But people don't remember Owen for being a championship winner, they remember him for being a Hart, and that means more than those championships

So...Jim Neidhart DVD incoming, then?

Like I said before, you can say it was all about the Hart name, but we did get that Hart Foundation DVD. It was fine; if it's all about the Hart name, that would be more than enough, and WWE wouldn't be pushing the Owen Hart DVD.

So why, when his career stacks up to the mentioned wrestlers?

His feud with Bret felt real and probably was to a degree. That's what I'll remember Owen for. Obviously, when someone dies as horrifically as he did, that's something people will remember. But to say that his death is being exploited for DVD sales is, again, misguided

How so?

Besides the Hart name (which, as I just pointed out, does have a DVD to it already), what more is there to Owen Hart's career? It's two things

A. His run in WWE (which was mid-card. It was X-pac, it was Jeff Jarrett. I'm sorry to say that, but it is true. And that isn't a bad thing).
B. His death

So, you tell me; did Owen Hart have more impact in life, or in death?

Reid Flairs death was not exploited because WWE did not make a profit off of it. IMHO, nobody is going to buy Survivor Series specifically to see Paige Vs Charlotte. I could be wrong, I just don't see it. Owens death is not being exploited with a DVD for the same reason. They are not advertising his death. They are advertising his career

Even if the WWE don't profit, there's clearly an intent. That's the point of Raw and Smackdown, to get you to buy the network, and watch the PPVs. Otherwise, why would you say anything about Reid's death?

By the OP's standard, anyone that dies should not have a DVD made about them.

I'm not saying that, at all. I'm saying the biggest selling point on the person you make the DVD about shouldn't be their death.

And 1 last thing before I go. I had no problem with Reid being brought up. I have no problem with Ric and Elizabeth not knowing about it. I have no problem if WWE told Charlotte she had to go there. I have a problem with people that are offended who had no connection to Reid or the Flair family. Empathy and sympathy are one thing, outrage is another. I hate apologists.

So you can't feel bad for Ric and Elizabeth? You can't see their trauma that they have experienced, and feel bad for them? And that feeling of pity can't turn to those who exploit it?

 

[Con T.]

Not saying all those people arent good or great but their tragic death had brought them more fame and were considered even better then they might actually was. So cant blame WWE for trying to exploit that fact, they are corporation hunting for more money.

I'm not upset at WWE for that. Hell, like I said, they have the footage. They have the right to make the DVD.

My biggest complaint is that they are ignoring Martha's wishes, which I understand why they did. But when you are at least partially responsible for the death of an employee, I'd imagine you want to be a little less callous, if not for the sake of public opinion (and for the record, WWE is far from the first corporation to appear so callous. Lest we forget the NFL, and what they did with Junior Seau and his family.)

My biggest gripe are with the people that are complaining about Paige referring to Reid's death. These are the people I want to hear from. I want to hear from the people who are outraged by what Paige said on Raw, but are still likely going to buy the Owen DVD. I want to know what makes these two things different for that fan, and I want to know from that fan how one is exploitation, and the other is just fine.

 

[Azane]

I'm a terribly morbid person sometimes, I respect death as a part of life, a nudge here or there towards it... well it's part of the cycle of life, I don't Make fun of someone who's died, but I feel like it's not the end of the world if death gets a mention here or there.

If a passing mention of Reed's death makes Paige into a megaheel, more power to it, she didn't mock his death, she made a passing comment to get heat, which is her job. In this generation where everyone cheers heels and boos faces, and then get upset when heels do something worse than "I'm going to beat you up!", seeing a "Cross the line" heel moment actually made me excited for the "Divas revolution" something I haven't cared about until now.

Wether it's Owen or Eddie or etc.... when WWE (specifically JBL) makes a mention of their name, the entire audience gasps, "OMG HE SAID A DEAD GUYS NAME!" then breaths when it ends up being positive, seeing a few negatives here or there shouldn't end the world.

I'm just sick of the Twitter Warrior era, where EVERY little thing has to get "TWEETED" and made into a big deal, someone in another thread said "I dare you to tweet that to Charlotte's Mother" and I just broke out laughing in person that tweeting someone is a dare worthy thing in today's society.... Get over it, Death is part of life, don't kick someone when they're down, but poking it with a stick a decade or so later shouldn't trigger so much ire. WWE has been so docile for years, Especially after the wave of Owen -> Eddie -> Benoit that made the entire company walk on eggshells for a decade.

 

[Con T.]

That being said, it doesn't really affect the way I look at these sort of things. Martha was very resentful towards WWE because of Owens death, and she obviously had a right to be, but I think fans should be allowed to buy Owen merch without feeling as if we're contributing to the profiting of his death.

Even if that's what you're doing?

Let's just get some facts down, here.

Fact: Owen Hart died in a WWE ring.

Fact: Owen Hart died doing a dangerous stunt he had no business doing, after expressing a desire to not do the stunt.

Fact: The WWE is using the likeness of the very same person who died under their watch.

I mean, you can feel however you want to feel. But can you dispute any of what I've mentioned? I mean, you can buy the merchandise, I'm not saying you can't buy the merchandise. But just understand where that money is going. It isn't going to Owen, and it isn't going to his family.

Maybe WWE is using this Owen DVD as a way of lining their pockets, but that doesn't mean people that buy it directly contribute to this exploitation.

Actually, yes, that's exactly what that means.

If you acknowledge that WWE is selling the product to line their pockets, then you're stating the realization that it could be exploitative.

And when you are buying that product, you are directly consuming in the exploitation.

A lot of people were fans and miss seeing Owen on TV despite his mid-card career, believe it or not.

Yes, because they don't have a whole Network for that.

Fans shouldn't be demonized for buying a dead wrestler's merch just because McMahon gets the cheque in his pocket at the end of the day.

No, but fans should realize just where there money is going.

As for the Reid Flair mention, I do feel bad for Ric and his wife for not being consulted. That must have sucked. But Charlotte gave the go ahead and I can't treat her as the victim if she voluntarily agreed to this. Since I really wasn't offended by the Flair thing, I guess I'm not the best guy to comment on this but oh well.

I wouldn't say that; at the least, you're consistent on your beliefs. We may not agree in particular, but I can respect that you aren't just picking and choosing your outrage. So, in a weird way, kudos.

 

[Con T.]

WWE has been so docile for years, Especially after the wave of Owen -> Eddie -> Benoit that made the entire company walk on eggshells for a decade.

You can understand why they'd be on eggshells, right?

Let's ignore the young age they died for a second; let's just look at the details of their deaths. If I were a company, and just had those three incidents under my watch, I'd be absolutely on eggshells. Because otherwise, I'd be under a lot of scrutiny for the way I do business.

WWE has done a lot of good in cleaning up the business of steroids after Benoit. More power to them. It's self-serving, but if it means less wrestlers dying at the age of forty, then I'm happy to see a change. Because I don't want for WWE to give itself black eye after black eye, for the sake of being "edgy".

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Surely, no. But they are trivializing the wishes of his wife, which is pretty scummy. I'm not saying that these two are equals, I just don't see how they aren't profiting off death.

They are profiting from his death. Can they just callously come right out and say that? Absolutely not because we live in such a PC centered society in which all niceties and proper terminology have to be applied. WWE is a business and part of their business includes a lot of footage of Owen Hart wrestling, speaking and just generally doing all that things a pro wrestler does; the footage is their legal property, so I have no problem whatsoever with them using their property to try to make some money. There's a ton of money to be made in that footage, which is a huge reason why WWE has done its very best to acquire most of the relevant professional wrestling tape libraries among American wrestling promotions of the past 60 years. As for Owen Hart's wife, the problem is that she essentially wants the world at large, including those wrestling fans who're still fans of Owen and his work, to forget he ever existed and that's just not going to happen. I'm not saying she's wrong for feeling that way, but I also don't think that WWE should automatically have to walk on eggshells concerning this woman whenever they have any sort of project that involves any or all members of the Hart Wrestling Family.

They could lionize the man. They could make him look like a God amongst mortals. The reality is, a lot of the appeal of Owen Hart is his tragic death. Which WWE is cashing in on.

I have to disagree with this because Owen Hart's death is old news, but DVD compilations containing an impressive degree of his work aren't. I'm not saying that WWE isn't in some way paying homage to his memory and keeping him relevant in the eyes of wrestling fans who want to see footage of him, but it's also simultaneously about making money and I can't fault WWE for that, I can't fault any wrestling company for actually trying to make money. Owen's death was tragic, but it's something that's been talked about, discussed, reminisced and flat out debated to an obscene degree in the 16.5 years since his passing. There's no new territory to be explored, there's nothing new to talk about; there'll probably always be some sort of morbid curiosity surrounding it because of how shocking and poorly handled the entire thing was. However, if I bought the DVD, it wouldn't be because of his tragic death.

I can't dispute this (though there is something to say about being 23, and not really having much of a head on your shoulders). But again, what is more bothersome is the way WWE trivializes the wishes of family, and how they're going to react to things like this.

Several years back, Owen's widow raised a stink when WWE released a Hart Family DVD compilation, which happened to include footage of Owen. Among the Hart family members, it seems that Martha Hart is really the only one who has had any issues with it; as I alluded to earlier, she may want everyone to pretend that Owen Hart didn't exist in the world of wrestling but it's not gonna happen. On one hand, if WWE did try to ignore Owen like they have with Chris Benoit, they'd be criticized for not recognizing his legacy in the eyes of some fans and they're criticized for trying to profit off Owen's memory; so, as is usual, WWE just can't really seem to win and somebody's gonna be pissed off no matter what.

And in that same vein, is what happened to Martha really any different than Ric or Elizabeth? We may not look at this DVD as if it is trivializing the death of Owen Hart, but I'm sure Martha would. I'm sure Martha would say you're looking at the life of her husband, and placing it on display for profit, long after his death.

Do I look at it as being trivial? No, but I'm not the widow, either.

Of course she does because, as I said, she basically wants the entire world to forget about Owen Hart and the fact that he was a professional wrestler. She doesn't want his name mentioned, she doesn't want pictures of him shown, she doesn't want footage of him aired, she doesn't want to see his name on a t-shirt. Again, I'm not saying that she's wrong because how could I possibly without seeming like a complete moron? However, I do think she's more than a tad irrational when it comes to the whole thing because her stance just isn't realistic.

When it comes to Owen's overall legacy, I do believe that some fans have jacked it up to a level that it never really attained. He was a talented wrestler, he had a lot of ability and he was well liked/respected by just about everyone who knew him; however, was he a superstar on the level of Bret, Taker, HBK, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Foley, Cena, Punk, etc.? Not at all. It doesn't take away from his talent, however, nor the fact that he was part of one of the most respected wrestling families of them all.

 

[MTL722]

So you can't feel bad for Ric and Elizabeth? You can't see their trauma that they have experienced, and feel bad for them? And that feeling of pity can't turn to those who exploit it?

Apparently you dont know what empathy and sympathy are. You should look those up. I specifically said I have no problem with sympathy or empathy for the Flair family. I have a problem with people being outraged who really have no reason to be.

I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and read your entire post. Turns out i didnt need to. All my points remain the same

Also, your decision to respond to every person that disagrees with you shows that you have to real desire to share ideas and have intelligent discussion. You are simply being stubborn and refusing to see any other side except for your own

I RESPECTFULLY disagree with your points, as do many others apparently. In the immortal words of Bluetista, "Deal With It"

 

[Navi]

How? In what way does this honor Owen?

DVDs get made all of the time. I guess you could say WWE found him memorable enough to actually make a DVD. But at the end of the day, both were used by the promotion for profit.

WWE used Reid Flair (which people do know about. If they didn't, there'd be no need to even point to him) to further a storyline, that they hope more people will watch their PPV for.

WWE is using Owen Hart's likeness (against his wife's will) to profit off a DVD that will only line their pockets.

Regardless of how significant both were to WWE history, they're being used for the same purpose.

It honours him by putting his life and wrestling career out there for those who were fans, and there is a lot of them, and maybe those that weren't born yet too see. Of course both were used as a promotion for profit that what the WWE is a business which puts their stars out there to profit from, but not everyone gets a DVD made for them do they?

You cannot compare the careers of Reid Flair and Owen Hart. I'm sure many people know of Reid Flair, but more know of Hart. Not only because of his efforts, his family also but more importantly the way he died. Not many wrestlers have actually died in a ring during an event.

Listen everyone profits off death. The funeral homes right on down to the florists, death is a very profitable business.

So I guess what you are saying is it's okay to use the name of someone that died in the ring to get some cheap heat, you said it didn't bother you right? But it's not okay for the WWE to make a DVD of someone's career so that their fans can buy it. Because quite honestly reading back what you've said it seems that way.

 

[CyberPunk]

First off, I had no problem with Reid being mentioned in Paige's promo. It wasn't an inflammatory promo, just a passing mention. Not seeking parent's permission before making that segment, I am not sure how I feel about it. Partly because WWE is not obligated to do that. Seeking permission is more of a goodwill thing than anything. Having been part of a corporate for so long, one thing I have learned is business can care less about family or personal feelings. I am pretty sure Martha winces every time someone mentions Owen and WWE in the same breath, but WWE as a business would eventually do what makes them money. And it's not only WWE, every form of entertainment does that. I am pretty sure when someone makes a movie on World War ll, they rarely ever go and seek permission of every descendant of martyrs of that World War. Are these movies made for profit? To some extent, yes. It's pretty much same for WWE, except this DVD is based on their own employee.

 

[Con T.]

So I guess what you are saying is it's okay to use the name of someone that died in the ring to get some cheap heat, you said it didn't bother you right? But it's not okay for the WWE to make a DVD of someone's career so that their fans can buy it. Because quite honestly reading back what you've said it seems that way.

I've actually said the exact opposite. I've said it's fine for WWE to make the DVD. I think you're misconstruing my personal distaste that WWE would do the DVD as a sort of denial that they can do it. I don't personally enjoy that WWE is doing it, but WWE is well within their rights to make it.

My problem is the fans, the very people that are complaining about the WWE's use of Reid Flair, and exploiting his death, and yet have no issue with the Owen DVD.

Have I made this clear enough?

Apparently you dont know what empathy and sympathy are. You should look those up.

You've also stated rather explicitly that you have sympathy for Flair. Or how else should I take this comment?

I had no problem with Reid being brought up. I have no problem with Ric and Elizabeth not knowing about it. I have no problem if WWE told Charlotte she had to go there.

By saying this, you are intimating that it doesn't bother you for any of the above. And that's fine. But it also tells me you really don't have that much sympathy for Ric or Elizabeth.

Which, frankly, says a lot more about you than me.

For the record, yes, I'm responding to one another. This is what we call a discussion forum. You discuss these things. I'm not telling you to feel these ways. I'm simply offering you this, just to think about. I'm not out to sway people one way or the other, by now everyone's made up their minds. I'm just offering you an alternative way to look at this issue.

 

[OYDK]

Even if that's what you're doing?

Let's just get some facts down, here.

Fact: Owen Hart died in a WWE ring.

Fact: Owen Hart died doing a dangerous stunt he had no business doing, after expressing a desire to not do the stunt.

Fact: The WWE is using the likeness of the very same person who died under their watch.

I mean, you can feel however you want to feel. But can you dispute any of what I've mentioned? I mean, you can buy the merchandise, I'm not saying you can't buy the merchandise. But just understand where that money is going. It isn't going to Owen, and it isn't going to his family.

First, I think everyone knows where their money is going when they buy a WWE product. That's not the real issue here.

I don't really know how to articulate what I want to say... not everything is black and white. While you may believe, DVD of dead wrestler + fan's money= exploitation, someone else may believe the same equation = respect. While you obviously don't think Owen Hart is worthy of a DVD based on his career alone, others would disagree. So what's the truth? Is WWE directly exploiting the death of a wrestler who died in their ring or is Owen's DVD being released based out of respect for Owen and his fans? If it's the latter, should WWE give the DVD away for free? Of course not.

Actually, yes, that's exactly what that means.

If you acknowledge that WWE is selling the product to line their pockets, then you're stating the realization that it could be exploitative.

And when you are buying that product, you are directly consuming in the exploitation.

Again, while I may realize this, I'm not buying the DVD which is why I said I may not be the best guy to comment. When I said, it doesn't mean that people directly contribute to this exploitation, I meant, in their minds Owen deserves to have a DVD. A large portion will buy it with the intent of just wanting to own one of their favorite wrestler's DVD's. How can they be contributing to the exploitation of Owen's death when they don't believe it's being exploited? Dammit, am I making any sense?

I wouldn't say that; at the least, you're consistent on your beliefs. We may not agree in particular, but I can respect that you aren't just picking and choosing your outrage. So, in a weird way, kudos.

Back atcha.

 

[Con T.]

I don't really know how to articulate what I want to say... not everything is black and white. While you may believe, DVD of dead wrestler + fan's money= exploitation, someone else may believe the same equation = respect. While you obviously don't think Owen Hart is worthy of a DVD based on his career alone, others would disagree. So what's the truth? Is WWE directly exploiting the death of a wrestler who died in their ring or is Owen's DVD being released based out of respect for Owen and his fans? If it's the latter, should WWE give the DVD away for free? Of course not.

I realize that, but frankly, in said respect, it does wind up becoming a money grab for WWE. WWE plays off your emotions as a fan, to get you to buy their stuff. It's business, and no one would deny that.

If it isn't a cash grab, though, then surely WWE wouldn't mind donating the money to Martha Hart, right? Like, if this isn't a cash grab for WWE, then go ahead and donate the money to a worthy cause. If you'd rather donate it to charity, that's fine, too.

What are the odds of that happening, do you think?

Again, while I may realize this, I'm not buying the DVD which is why I said I may not be the best guy to comment. When I said, it doesn't mean that people directly contribute to this exploitation, I meant, in their minds Owen deserves to have a DVD. A large portion will buy it with the intent of just wanting to own one of their favorite wrestler's DVD so how can they be contributing to the exploitation when they don't believe it's exploitation? Dammit, am I making any sense?

No, it makes sense. And as the fan, I understand where you're coming from. What I'm saying is, directly or otherwise, the fan would still be consuming in the exploitation.

Which, again, is fine, as long as you're consistent, and don't have a problem with Charlotte and Paige bringing up Reid on TV