Was Ric Flair's In-Ring Work Overrated?

[PlayTheGame]

I've always considered Flair to be one of the best wrestlers of all time, both in the ring and on the mic. However, I've recently read a few posts by a few different posters that have put down Flair's in-ring work and basically called it overrated... Now, of course Flair is one of the best, and no one is doubting his heel/mic/promo skills but... was his in-ring work not as good as everyone often says it is???

I would have always said no but up until recently I think I may have changed my mind. Yes, he often could tell stories in the ring but... was he really that technically savvy? Was he really that impressive in the ring? Did he really employ a full set of moves? Now I know what characteristics that make a wrestler good in the ring might be different from one person to another, but this thread is for the open discussion of whether or not Flair's in-ring work was overrated or not. Some might say that his storytelling/dirty tactics in the ring make him one of the best of all time in the ring while some others might say that his tendency to "often put on same match" might make his in-ringwork overrated.

What do you think?

 

[Skillz]

Ric Flair is the most overrated wrestler to have ever lived. Bret Hart said it best when he said that Flair's matches were 30 minutes of non-stop non-psychology. There was just never any flow or logic to his matches. The supposed classic matches he had with Steamboat are some of the most overrated matches ever.

Look at the majority of his matches and you'll see that storytelling-wise they just never led to anything. There wasn't much of a story being told, just a succession of moves with no real purpose. In other words, a spotfest. One minute he'd be working the leg, then he'd be woo-ing to crowd and getting them to pop for him (as a heel), next minute he'd be doing his ridiculous upside-down turnbuckle spot, and then he'd be getting knocked on his ass by the referee. Just a whole lot of nonsense for 30, 45 or even 60 minutes.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

I actually really like a lot of Flair's work from the 70's and 80's. Problem being that he wrestled for nearly 15 years to long. Not just wrestling, but doing it badly.

The main objection I have with him is that people claim he's the greatest of all time, when in fact, half of his career was a sham

 

[Queers and Steers]

he may not be some technical wrestler but his in ring performance was fantastic he always had the crowd in the match and every match that ive saw from him especially in the 80s i was completely into. he went to every territory world wide and made there guy look like he was the best in the world he made everybody he fought better, isnt that the make up of a great performer/ he made you feel like anybody he was in the ring was a formidable opponent which is a huge accomplishment and takes a tremendous amount of seeling ability he was a natural. is he overrated? in my opinion no but it depends on how you look at it. if you think that its all about technical wrestling skills and abilities than yeah but if you are into the art of professional wrestling which is telling a story, getting the crowd into it and putting people over than no. because nobody was better at that than the nature boy. i mean he could literally get the crowd to cheer for anybody beacuse he was such an amazing heel who played his character to the tee. and in my opinion he did a even better job than hollywood hogan at making clearly inferior characters look up to par with him. not to mention that without flair there would be no HBK and without hbk there cvwould be no y2j so his hand print is definitely on the world of wrestling

 

[PhoenixBuster]

I'm gonna go ahead and say that, yes, his in-ring work is often times talked up beyond its true caliber. The statement you made about the storytelling is something I agree with. I've seen many a matches feature Ric and I've viewed them as thoroughly entertaining in most cases for the storytelling, not so much for his fantastic technical skills. I believe that he's one of the greatest wrestlers of all time because this business is for entertainment purposes and he does a damn fine job of that.

 

[BlitzSage]

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that sort of his thing? He put people over, and sort of like Edge does today, opportunistically wins title after title. I always thought that was just his persona, not technical, but crafty and dirty. I think he's sort of like Hogan. Can't beat you technically like Hart, but they have that "it" factor: Hogan hulks up, and Flair has one last trick in the bag. Get what I'm sayin?

 

[Big Daddy Fool]

I think having feuds with good workers like sting and steamboat made him look a lot better then he really was. When you work with 2 of the best like that all the time its hard not to look good.

 

[Queers and Steers]

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that sort of his thing? He put people over, and sort of like Edge does today, opportunistically wins title after title. I always thought that was just his persona, not technical, but crafty and dirty. I think he's sort of like Hogan. Can't beat you technically like Hart, but they have that "it" factor: Hogan hulks up, and Flair has one last trick in the bag. Get what I'm sayin?

yeah thats true to a certain point, because he was more than just one last trick up his slleve this dude continually had 60 minute matches that were entertaining as hell and he was better at making people look good than hogan to be honest hes better at that than michaels. the only diff isd that micaels is better as a wrestler. flair made anybody look powerful but HBk gets the best out of everybody. Flair certainly has the it faactor and he is more entertaining than edge, even though im a huge edge fan as well

 

[Queers and Steers]

I think having feuds with good workers like sting and steamboat made him look a lot better then he really was. When you work with 2 of the best like that all the time its hard not to look good.

ok but he was the person that put sting over i dont know if you remeber but they had a match before the one on tbs that went 45 minutes and most people didnt even know who sting weas at the time but after the match he got a buzz .besides that every match of his was good back in the day and he fought several people more than he fought those two people you mention

 

[Mustang Sally]

Ric Flair after 50 was relevant only because of his legacy, not his wrestling. But if you're too young to remember the Flair of the '70's, '80's and early '90's, don't presume he was the same as he's been the past few years.

You shouldn't think he couldn't handle technical wrestling, because he could. Just when you thought all the guy could do was cheat, he would surprise you with a display of technical prowess that proved he could wrestle with the best. This was evident in his matches against Ricky Steamboat.

But the Flair who ruled those earlier decades wasn't famous for his technical wrestling. He was a performer who lived up (or down) to his reputation as "The Dirtiest Player in the Game." He used tons of ring psychology as he told his "heel" story in the ring and went back and forth with the "face," keeping the match going by mixing technical moves in with dirty tactics until he either found a way to cheat his way to victory or to get himself disqualified to keep his title.

If that sounds formulaic and repetitive......it was! But it also kept fans on the edge of their seats for 25 years and kept Flair firmly in the driver's seat as the guy they loved to hate.

Don't sell Ric Flair short because of what you saw at the end of his career.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Flair was a great story-teller in the ring for the excessive majority of his career. The only time I think he was not capable of directing a great match with someone was during the last year of his career, where he was floundering in matches with Vince, MVP, and Kennedy. He sold everything very well and was as fluid as anyone has ever been.

Furthermore, his out of ring performances only enhanced his in-ring work, as his portrayal of excessive living translated into a kind of desperate style, showing that he was willing to do whatever it took to stay at the top.

 

[RATED R CHAMPION]

Ohhhhhh Come On, What Question Is That? Are You Asking God If His Is Really Good? Hey. Ric Flair Is The "master" In Ring Performer Of All Time, No Body, No Body, And Simply No Body Is Better In The Mic And In The Ring Than Richard Morgan Fliehr. Men The Job Is To Make Your Opponent Look Good And No One Does It Better Than Flair, His Mic Skills, Phenomenal, You Want To Learn How To Do A Promo? Watch Ric Flair Promos On Youtube.'

Now, Some Said He Won Titles Opportunistically Like Edge? Well Men He's A Heel What's The Problem With That? I Prefer To Win The Title Opportunistically And Being Talented Than Winning A World Title Doing 3 Moves Like The Crap Of Hulk Hogan And John Cena Do, You Got It?

If There's Someone Overrated...... It Is Cena, Hogan, And Those Punks Who Made 3 Moves And Won Titles They Look Awful In The Ring....... So Get That Little Rookie.........

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Best Of All Time!!!!! Whoooooooo Whooooooo Whooooooooooo You're Looking At The Man!!!

 

[thisisatest]

I always considered the notion that Flair couldn't scientifically wrestle his way out of a paper bag is what led to him being such a great heel champion for years. It really made you wish for a Barry Windham, Lex Luger, Ron/Jim Garvin, Magnum T.A. and the like to step up and put an end to his title reign. Alas, in the end, he would cheat, throw himself over the top rope, or enlist the aid of Anderson or Blanchard and retain his belt. It really made you as a fan believe the he knew he couldn't outwrestle anyone and put him insanely over the top for a long time.

 

[Queers and Steers]

Ohhhhhh Come On, What Question Is That? Are You Asking God If His Is Really Good? Hey. Ric Flair Is The "master" In Ring Performer Of All Time, No Body, No Body, And Simply No Body Is Better In The Mic And In The Ring Than Richard Morgan Fliehr. Men The Job Is To Make Your Opponent Look Good And No One Does It Better Than Flair, His Mic Skills, Phenomenal, You Want To Learn How To Do A Promo? Watch Ric Flair Promos On Youtube.'

Now, Some Said He Won Titles Opportunistically Like Edge? Well Men He's A Heel What's The Problem With That? I Prefer To Win The Title Opportunistically And Being Talented Than Winning A World Title Doing 3 Moves Like The Crap Of Hulk Hogan And John Cena Do, You Got It?

If There's Someone Overrated...... It Is Cena, Hogan, And Those Punks Who Made 3 Moves And Won Titles They Look Awful In The Ring....... So Get That Little Rookie.........

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Best Of All Time!!!!! Whoooooooo Whooooooo Whooooooooooo You're Looking At The Man!!!

i definitely agree with you man said the same exact thing in my first post on the subject. he could of made me look like i deserved to be the champion! and that makes him the best professional wrestler of all time

 

[Rated R SuperFan]

PHOENIXBUSTER and Y 2 JAKE Are you out of your F***ING MINDS ?? "Nature Boy" Ric Flair isn't ONE of the greatest wrestler's of all time he IS the greatest wrestler of all time period you wanna talk overratted worker's Start with everyone's favorite's Hulk Hogan , John Cena , and the #1 overrated worker Triple F***in' Hollywood (Triple H for all you marks out there) Please anyone that doesn't think , no wait anyone who doesn't KNOW that "Nature Boy" Ric Flair IS THE GREATEST WRESTLER OF ALL TIME IS JUST REALLY REALLY STUPID AND UNEDUCATED ! No one had to make Flair look good he did that on his own hell he made STING !! In one night in one match he put STING on the map same with Steamboat He made Steamnboat a Main Event Player after he was in WWF and was a mid card worker he went back to NWA and Flair made him look like a million bucks months after losing the IC belt to Honkytonk Man . so there you have it and F**k anyone that doesn't KNOW the GREATNESS of "Nature Boy" Ric Flair WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo !!!

That's My Opinion I Don't Give A F**k About Yours !!!

 

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm convinced that some of the people who post regularly on this board just aren't wrestling fans. I don't know if it is just that you're young, started watching wrestling during the attitude era and haven't done your homework or just plain ignorant -- but some of the posts in this thread are an embarrassment.

What do mean "overrated"? If you think Flair couldn't work or tell a story in the ring, you just don't know what you're talking about. It's that simple.

I think a lot of people think "workrate" is all about doing a thousand suplexes like Chris Benoit or doing a lot of high spots like Jeff Hardy. That's not work rate. Work rate is selling, telling a coherent story, and executing moves well.

Who's that Bret Hart fan who was dissing the 5 star classics against Steamboat? Are you mad my friend? Any one of those are easily ... EASILY as good as, if not better than, any Bret Hart match I can think of. In fact I think Bret-Owen at Wrestlemania X is the only one that comes close.

If you're allergic to old NWA stuff, go and watch Flair vs. Macho Man from Wrestlemania 8. Seriously, what are you guys on? By what definition is Flair not a great worker?

Judging from some of your comments about him being "the dirtiest player in the game" and all that -- it really looks as if you're basing your opinions on his post-2002 WWE run. Please, if you're going to post on topics like this go and get a wrestling education first -- go and watch Flair vs. Sting from Clash of the Champions XXVII, christ go and watch one of those matches from the late 80s when he carried Lex Luger to ****, go and watch Royal Rumble 92. I just can't believe the comments in this thread, not what you want to read before you go to bed.

 

[butsecks]

Flair IS overrated...watching one of his matches, was like watching a cartoon...an atrocious match, with spotfests that consisted of chops, wooing the crowd, low blows, upside down turnbuckle spot, falling on his face, no psychology...RIDICULOUS. The man did the same EXACT thing in the ring week in, week out, and i laugh everytime he downright disses bret hart and says hes GREAT..... ENVY....

 

[JerryvonKramer]

So taking any and every move the other guy can throw at him and making them look like a million dollars doesn't count?

What about the stalling suplex? The atomic drop? The shin breaker? The figure-four?

What about executing every spot as it should be done? What about psyching out the other guy with mind games? Dictating the tempo of a match? And being able to wrestle to the other guy's tempo if circumstances require?

Are you that clueless that you don't understand why Flair's the greatest of all time? Who else could wrestle a **** with Luger and then go out and have an all-time classic with Steamboat? Who else could wrestle Sting, Savage, Hogan, Ronnie bloody Garvin, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Morton -- the list goes on and on and on -- and make them ALL look good? Who else could do that? Flair's a guy who you can put in there with anyone and you can be sure he'll make a great match of it. Even if it means him take a beating for 20 minutes, he'll do it to get the match over. There are very very few other people in that category.

Bret Hart for example, will work a great match if he's in there against another great worker -- a DiBiase, a Savage, a Michaels, a Stone Cold, an Owen Hart -- but what happens if you put him in there with Luger? He ends up making Luger look wooden and shit (see the feud from 1994). That's why Flair was better than Hart. He could match other great workers to make ***** classics, but he could also could carry anyone to a decent match.

Sorry guys, there's only one answer here.

 

[jnmaher]

Not as good as everyone says he is. However I have never seen anyone make mcmahon look like a wrestler as he did in royal rumble 2002. That was a good match.

 

[Y2 Punk]

Ohhhhhh Come On, What Question Is That? Are You Asking God If His Is Really Good? Hey. Ric Flair Is The "master" In Ring Performer Of All Time, No Body, No Body, And Simply No Body Is Better In The Mic And In The Ring Than Richard Morgan Fliehr. Men The Job Is To Make Your Opponent Look Good And No One Does It Better Than Flair, His Mic Skills, Phenomenal, You Want To Learn How To Do A Promo? Watch Ric Flair Promos On Youtube.'

Now, Some Said He Won Titles Opportunistically Like Edge? Well Men He's A Heel What's The Problem With That? I Prefer To Win The Title Opportunistically And Being Talented Than Winning A World Title Doing 3 Moves Like The Crap Of Hulk Hogan And John Cena Do, You Got It?

If There's Someone Overrated...... It Is Cena, Hogan, And Those Punks Who Made 3 Moves And Won Titles They Look Awful In The Ring....... So Get That Little Rookie.........

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Best Of All Time!!!!! Whoooooooo Whooooooo Whooooooooooo You're Looking At The Man!!!

Notice this being my 2nd post ever I am usually against internet anger but...
Seriously do you need to type like that I read it and you sound like a very loud 13 year old.
This Capatalizing the first letter of everything also is beyond obnoxious.
You honestly make me want to hate everything in this world that is good.

 

[Suprwhp]

as much as i hate to say it, flair is very overrated in the ring, he is one of the best southern wrestlers on the mic but ive watched all of his matches growning up and none of them impressed me, he has no offense besides "whooo" chops.

 

[Undercurrent]

I've personally rarely been entertained by a Ric Flair match but I shall attempt to look at this from an unbias view.

In terms of his in ring ability, I feel he should not be mentioned as one of the all time greats. He could never properly tell a compelling story thanks to his lack of ring psychology. It just truly never made very much sense to me. How many times can you flop around and flip upside down on the turnbuckle before it gets stale, predictable and completely unnecessary? Ric Flair typically wrestled the exact same match every night for the majority of his career. He was a routine man and if you study his matches it stands out like a sore thumb.

Ric Flair had loads of charisma and was extremely reliable on the microphone but his persona was taken from Buddy Rogers, the majority of his title reigns were apart of minor promotions, and he was fortunate enough to have wrestled so many all time greats which gave him quite a bit of credibility. Ric Flair worked extremely hard and is arguably one of the most passionate wrestlers to have ever graced the squared circle which leads many to believe that he was the greatest of all time but fortunately he could not pull a quick one over me.

The nostalgia, title reigns and length of his career aside, I've always viewed Ric Flair as a charismatic, passionate performer, whose best years were far behind him and still far from incredible. Yes.....Ric Flair is overrated.

 

[Big Fella]

Ric Flair is the most overrated wrestler to have ever lived. Bret Hart said it best when he said that Flair's matches were 30 minutes of non-stop non-psychology. There was just never any flow or logic to his matches. The supposed classic matches he had with Steamboat are some of the most overrated matches ever.

Steamboat/Flair overrated... Of course, you wouldn't remember 1989 very well.

And for the record, Flair had it right when he talked about every Bret Hart ending with the 5 moves of doom. Vertical suplex, Russian legsweep, backbreaker, elbowdrop from the second rope, and Sharpshooter, blah blah blah.

But thats beside the point.

Flair is a very good technical wrestler, and the best overall performer of all time.

 

[WunNightStan619]

yes....yes he is

 

[rolltide_pisco]

I have somewhat of respect for Flair's in-ring work. The 1st wrestling promotion I ever saw was NWA-WCW and the 1st big match I ever saw was Sting-Flair at Clash of the Champions to the 45 minute broadway. I was hooked after that. I will say that havin gone back and watched old tapes of Flair, I could see how some would criticize him. I mean as a young fan you'd get caught up in the whole entrance with the 2001 music and the robes.

Is he the greatest wrestler of all time? No, not close to Hulk Hogan but what he did with the NWA and WCW was great. He is a legend in wrestling but not the greatest of all time. I like Ric Flair and respect him for my own reasons but ever since I saw his whole Hall of Fame speech, I just have a different look on him nowadays.