Watching Raw from last night has got me thinking....

[tommo1898]

Just watched the very entertaining opening segment from Raw and made me think Why do people boo roman reigns these days? I’m not actually a massive fan of his myself, but he has turned into a very very good pro wrestler. Great look and badass persona, always delivers in the ring and actually his promos, while still not mind blowing, are pretty decent these days. He keeps it short and sweet and his delivery is so much more natural than even a year ago.

His premature push and WWE’s reluctance to take a backwards step with it have obviously done a lot of damage in terms of him being universally liked. I am willing to bet that if the current version of Roman had gotten his initial push he would be a beloved face. I kind of get the feeling the booing is more just the ‘cool fan’ thing to do at this point.

Do you agree that he has turned into a guy worthy of a main event spot?

Do you think he still sucks? If so, why?

 

[ShinChan]

He doesn't suck. But his booking does. If WWE wants me to cheer him, they need to give me reasons to. For example, Roman Reigns lost fair & square to Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania. And then gets a rematch at Greatest Royal Rumble. Why? He did not lose because of cheating. And now he whines that he's the real Universal Champion. Like what? You couldn't beat the champion. So how come am I supposed to believe your whining? Always delivers in the ring? I saw his match against Samoa Joe. Because of Joe. Joe who's one of the best RAW had at that time. And the match sucked. There's no interest for me in Roman Reigns. I have stopped seeing his matches and segments. Done with him. And also with Brock Lesnar.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Personally I never thought he sucked, I just thought his booking was awful in the beginning. When you have decided to put him through the Daniel Bryan storyline of him getting screwed by the authority and Vince McMahon and then to make matter worst have HHH look like a total baby face during the rumble and the way to make him feel like a big star and countered to positive of fans wanting Bryan in this spot was to put him against Bryan at the next Ppv. That's what killed whatever chance he had of being loved by the hardcore wrestling fan base. That moment was where it started for him.

But I've got to say, since wrestlemania last year when he beat the undertaker, he's been booked perfectly in my opinion. They use the fact that he was a heat magnet to pretty much push braun strowman to the next level which is what Vince wanted. Then rehab reigns a little bit by putting the shield back together again and now, he's pretty much the bad ass that fans want him to be. Yes, he had the little bump in the road with the jinder feud but outside of that, it pretty much was perfect booking for that character throughout.

Also I get the point that some fans have brought up about the whole reigns losing clean to lesnar at mania but still getting another title shot but at the same time, you could say that nakamura lose clean to styles at mania and still got another title shot at the greatest royal rumble as well.

Reigns at less didn't lose clean at the greatest royal rumble, In fact, the way they did it, he should have won that belt at the show because he was the first guy touching the floor, so for storyline purpose, he as a point when he says that he's the ingrown champion because they have video proof that reigns beat lesnar at the greatest royal rumble but the ref made a mistake.

So I don't know why there are still fans booing the guy but lately, it seem like there are less of them. If he can get cheered by the majority of fans in a market like Boston, who's known to be a pretty smart crowd, I think that the whole "cool kid" mentality of booing him just because will disappear. He will always have his haters and the wrestling media will always focus on that part but I seem to have run is course the last few weeks.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

He doesn't suck. But his booking does. If WWE wants me to cheer him, they need to give me reasons to. For example, Roman Reigns lost fair & square to Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania. And then gets a rematch at Greatest Royal Rumble. Why? He did not lose because of cheating. And now he whines that he's the real Universal Champion. Like what? You couldn't beat the champion. So how come am I supposed to believe your whining? Always delivers in the ring? I saw his match against Samoa Joe. Because of Joe. Joe who's one of the best RAW had at that time. And the match sucked. There's no interest for me in Roman Reigns. I have stopped seeing his matches and segments. Done with him. And also with Brock Lesnar.

I hate to go all kayfabe here, but you do realize he escaped the cage first at GRR? Like he really did win that match by the rules. And for some reason he didn't get the title. That is a legit screwjob. You can be upset he got that match in the first place, but he won it by the rules, yet wasn't declared the winner because...reasons? Also, Lesnar has had how many matches at thrown together PPVs against random opponents for no reason? At least Reigns they had something going on. Didn't Lesnar beat Rusev once? I mean, come on with your argument.

 

[ShinChan]

I hate to go all kayfabe here, but you do realize he escaped the cage first at GRR? Like he really did win that match by the rules. And for some reason he didn't get the title. That is a legit screwjob. You can be upset he got that match in the first place, but he won it by the rules, yet wasn't declared the winner because...reasons?

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. But according to what I know about a cage match, you have to escape it and your both feet should touch the floor, so as to win the match. And according to that, Brock Lesnar won. So, how can Roman Reigns claim to be the winner? He got two straight chances at the title, with the latter being totally unjustified. Both of them, he lost. Whining about it continuously, saying that Brock is Vince's guy while main eventing a PPV over a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP match isn't gonna make him cheer.

Also, wrestlingmaster, yes, Nakamura did get another title shot. I never said that he got it right. One wrong doesn't justify another. Also, let's see who's whining after losing cleanly and who isn't.

 

[ShinChan]

Also, Lesnar has had how many matches at thrown together PPVs against random opponents for no reason? At least Reigns they had something going on. Didn't Lesnar beat Rusev once? I mean, come on with your argument.

Well, we can agree to disagree then. The story ended when Lesnar defeated Roman Reigns cleanly. That wasn't something going on. It had already ended like many stories do at Wrestlemania.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. But according to what I know about a cage match, you have to escape it and your both feet should touch the floor, so as to win the match. And according to that, Brock Lesnar won. So, how can Roman Reigns claim to be the winner? He got two straight chances at the title, with the latter being totally unjustified. Both of them, he lost. Whining about it continuously, saying that Brock is Vince's guy while main eventing a PPV over a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP match isn't gonna make him cheer.

Also, wrestlingmaster, yes, Nakamura did get another title shot. I never said that he got it right. One wrong doesn't justify another. Also, let's see who's whining after losing cleanly and who isn't.

But rewatch the reigns vs lesnar cage match from the GRR and reigns feets did touch the ground first because lesnar fell on top of the cage when they both went through so he as a right to bitch about not being the champion right now because in a keyfabe way, he clearly got screwed at the end of that match.

 

[Mr.Maikeru_Sawyer]

But rewatch the reigns vs lesnar cage match from the GRR and reigns feets did touch the ground first because lesnar fell on top of the cage when they both went through

this is semantics boy, you are trying to say that BECAUSE Lesnar fell onto the CAGE and NOT THE FLOOR that he never touched the floor. except that you can and he did. All this "story" is for is a way to piss off fans and keep Roman in the UT picture. not that it matters- Braun has the case and will be Universal Champion before the end of September!(Bank on IT)

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. But according to what I know about a cage match, you have to escape it and your both feet should touch the floor, so as to win the match. And according to that, Brock Lesnar won. So, how can Roman Reigns claim to be the winner? He got two straight chances at the title, with the latter being totally unjustified. Both of them, he lost. Whining about it continuously, saying that Brock is Vince's guy while main eventing a PPV over a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP match isn't gonna make him cheer.

Also, wrestlingmaster, yes, Nakamura did get another title shot. I never said that he got it right. One wrong doesn't justify another. Also, let's see who's whining after losing cleanly and who isn't.

No. Lesnar didn't win. Go watch it again. Reigns feet touched the floor first. That has always been the deciding factor for the winner, other than pinfall/submission. It's clear as day. Reigns got screwed.

Well, we can agree to disagree then. The story ended when Lesnar defeated Roman Reigns cleanly. That wasn't something going on. It had already ended like many stories do at Wrestlemania.

Because a feud has never continued after a clean victory...

But rewatch the reigns vs lesnar cage match from the GRR and reigns feets did touch the ground first because lesnar fell on top of the cage when they both went through so he as a right to bitch about not being the champion right now because in a keyfabe way, he clearly got screwed at the end of that match.

This is 100% correct.

this is semantics boy, you are trying to say that BECAUSE Lesnar fell onto the CAGE and NOT THE FLOOR that he never touched the floor. except that you can and he did. All this "story" is for is a way to piss off fans and keep Roman in the UT picture. not that it matters- Braun has the case and will be Universal Champion before the end of September!(Bank on IT)

It's not semantics at all. The rule clearly states touching the floor. The cage is not the floor. And Lesnar's feet were even off of the ground because the cage was off the ground.

 

[ShinChan]

But rewatch the reigns vs lesnar cage match from the GRR and reigns feets did touch the ground first because lesnar fell on top of the cage when they both went through so he as a right to bitch about not being the champion right now because in a keyfabe way, he clearly got screwed at the end of that match.

Except the fact that, sir, I watched it where Roman Reigns' one foot touched the floor and the other was on the apron skirt. Not on floor. That way, I say, that Brock Lesnar won. Because his feet touched the floor first. Both feet. Not one.

 

[ShinChan]

No. Lesnar didn't win. Go watch it again. Reigns feet touched the floor first. That has always been the deciding factor for the winner, other than pinfall/submission. It's clear as day. Reigns got screwed.

Like I said earlier, Roman' one foot touched floor while the other was on apron skirt. Floor. Two feet. To touch. Brock's did.

Because a feud has never continued after a clean victory...

Doesn't justify that it should. If something wrong has happened before, it doesn't justify it.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Except the fact that, sir, I watched it where Roman Reigns' one foot touched the floor and the other was on the apron skirt. Not on floor. That way, I say, that Brock Lesnar won. Because his feet touched the floor first. Both feet. Not one.

Ugh. Even WWE admitted they screwed up, kayfabe of course. Just give it up.

 

[ShinChan]

Ugh. Even WWE admitted they screwed up, kayfabe of course. Just give it up.

Why give up? I saw it again. Roman Reigns' right foot was on apron skirt. How's that supposed to be considered floor touch? His left foot touched floor before Brock. But both feet must touch floor to win. Not a single. What to give up now?

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Why give up? I saw it again. Roman Reigns' right foot was on apron skirt. How's that supposed to be considered floor touch? His left foot touched floor before Brock. But both feet must touch floor to win. Not a single. What to give up now?

The fact that his heel was on the floor. The rest of his foot was on the skirt. But you keep trying. I have WWE, saying it their damn selves, on my side anyway.

But I insist you keep trying. This is hilarious.

 

[ShinChan]

The fact that his heel was on the floor. The rest of his foot was on the skirt. But you keep trying. I have WWE, saying it their damn selves, on my side anyway.

But I insist you keep trying. This is hilarious.

Nope. I need not try more. I have seen it multiple times and you can too. Feel free to believe what you want to. Try watching it closely. Will help ya.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Nope. I need not try more. I have seen it multiple times and you can too. Feel free to believe what you want to. Try watching it closely. Will help ya.

"Can't win. Refuse to believe to believe what has been made blatantly obvious by WWE using it as part of their storyline."

Well if you're going to give up that easily, ok.

You're not a flat Earther, are you?

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Just rewatch the ending of the match, both of reigns feet touch the floor before lesnar rolled of the cage so storyline wise, reigns as all the right in the world to complain about not being the champion.

 

[ShinChan]

"Can't win. Refuse to believe to believe what has been made blatantly obvious by WWE using it as part of their storyline."

Well if you're going to give up that easily, ok.

You're not a flat Earther, are you?

WWE using it as storyline doesn't make the truth a lie. And it's not about giving up. I could go on and on. But when someone isn't understanding even on multiple tries, there's no use of continuing to try. I can't force someone to believe something. I will believe what I saw. You can believe what WWE wants you to believe. Your prerogative.

What's a flat Earther?

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

WWE using it as storyline doesn't make the truth a lie. And it's not about giving up. I could go on and on. But when someone isn't understanding even on multiple tries, there's no use of continuing to try. I can't force someone to believe something. I will believe what I saw. You can believe what WWE wants you to believe. Your prerogative.

What's a flat Earther?

It's people who don't like big boobs. They go around complaining about womans breasts if they're too large or even a little plump. It's a new trend.

 

[Navi]

What's a flat Earther?

It's a member of basically a group of nutcases. They believe that the earth is flat, the North Pole is the centre and the outer rim is an ice wall which would be Antarctica.

They've been around in various forms since the 1800's and resurface (no pun intended) every once in awhile. Or it could be a fear of boobs, I have no real idea.

As for the cage match, watched and still can't make heads nor tails of the ending. So I'll go with what the WWE said.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

WWE using it as storyline doesn't make the truth a lie. And it's not about giving up. I could go on and on. But when someone isn't understanding even on multiple tries, there's no use of continuing to try. I can't force someone to believe something. I will believe what I saw. You can believe what WWE wants you to believe. Your prerogative.

What's a flat Earther?

The Reigns hate is strong with this one.

And Flat Earthers are people who believe something so strongly, that no matter the obvious evidence against them, or how stupid they look, they refuse to change their mind. If you can’t figure out what their belief is, I almost feel guilty even messing with you this entire time.

 

[ShinChan]

The Reigns hate is strong with this one.

Lol. I don't hate him. Hate is too strong a word. It's okay though. You can believe that I hate him. But I don't.

And Flat Earthers are people who believe something so strongly, that no matter the obvious evidence against them, or how stupid they look, they refuse to change their mind. If you can’t figure out what their belief is, I almost feel guilty even messing with you this entire time.

Okay. So the video evidence says that Brock won. And so I believe it. Feel free to call me whatever you like to. I didn't know that a Flat Earther was even a term. Never mind. Now I do know. Thanks for contributing to my vocabulary.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Lol. I don't hate him. Hate is too strong a word. It's okay though. You can believe that I hate him. But I don't.


Okay. So the video evidence says that Brock won. And so I believe it. Feel free to call me whatever you like to. I didn't know that a Flat Earther was even a term. Never mind. Now I do know. Thanks for contributing to my vocabulary.

Actually it doesn't. There is literally no evidence on your side. You just have a warped "I hate Reigns so much that his heel is no longer a part of his foot" opinion. And it's making you look just stupid. You have officially turned into Jim Carrey, in Liar Liar, trying to convince yourself that a blue pen is red.

Or is it a warped "I hate Reigns so much that in a 19 day span ANYONE ELSE should have faced Lesnar at GRR"? Because that would be an amazing feud, whoever it would've been. Would've made a lot of sense as well. Maybe it could've been James Ellsworth. Mojo Rawley? Who else should've been thrown to the wolves so you idiots could complain about that too?

I think that fans being critical of the product thread had something going on there.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Okay. So the video evidence says that Brock won. And so I believe it. Feel free to call me whatever you like to. I didn't know that a Flat Earther was even a term. Never mind. Now I do know. Thanks for contributing to my vocabulary.

Just wondering something, what match did you watch to get to that conclusion? I rewatch the ending of that match yesterday and both of lesnar feet were still on the cage panel when reigns roll off the cage and touch the floor. So if you follow the keyfabe rules of a cage match, it says that the winner is the first person who escape the cage and BOTH feets touch the floor, lesnar might have escape the cage first but his feet never touch the floor since he stayed lay out on the cage side while reigns rolled off and his feet touch the floor first.

So if you follow the storyline, reigns got screwed at the greatest royal rumble and deserve another title match.

 

[ShinChan]

Actually it doesn't.

It does. Maybe, it doesn't for you. For me it does.

There is literally no evidence on your side.

Of course. The match video isn't online yet, no? See it.

You just have a warped "I hate Reigns so much that his heel is no longer a part of his foot" opinion.

Firstly, I don't hate Reigns. Try understanding it. Secondly, his whole right foot got straight to apron skirt. Including heel.

And it's making you look just stupid.

It’s okay if I'm stupid for you.

You have officially turned into Jim Carrey, in Liar Liar, trying to convince yourself that a blue pen is red.

I don't know Jim or Liar. Can't comment when I don't know them.

Or is it a warped "I hate Reigns so much that in a 19 day span ANYONE ELSE should have faced Lesnar at GRR"?

Firstly, again, try reading and understanding and then responding. I don't hate Roman Reigns. You saying it billion times won't make me hate Roman Reigns. Secondly, yes, anyone else should have faced him. Roman Reigns whines about his loss at Greatest Royal Rumble while completely ignoring his CLEAN LOSS at Wrestlemania. Why should I cheer a hypocrite?

Because that would be an amazing feud, whoever it would've been. Would've made a lot of sense as well. Maybe it could've been James Ellsworth. Mojo Rawley? Who else should've been thrown to the wolves so you idiots could complain about that too?

Thanks for calling me idiot. I was wondering what else you can call me. And no, there did not need to be a feud for it. I will take a random match for Brock over a feud that's OVER.

I think that fans being critical of the product thread had something going on there.

Please elaborate.