WCW before Hulk Hogan

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

As the thread title states, I wanted to discuss WCW prior to Hulk Hogan's arrival. My purpose of this thread is not to throw around speculation about backstage politics, egos and what not. I just want to have an insightful discussion about what the promotion was like before Hulk Hogan departed WWF to sign with the competition. So it'd be great if we could keep things reserved to what happened on screen and not off.

As a kid, I wasn't overly intimate or familiar with the Jim Crockett Promotions roster, since the cable company that my town had didn't carry TBS until 1993. The syndicated program which I believe was called the Power Hour was never a consistent or dependable show to base a following on either, a lot of this was due to just how the nature of syndicated stations worked back then. However I was still able to follow some of the promotion's storylines when I would visit my Grandfather's house during the summers and occasional weekends since he lived in another town that did carry TBS.

So through the years I had some insight on stuff like Magnum TA and Tully Blanchard's feud, Ric Flair's animus with Dusty Rhodes (even when The American Dream saved the Nature Boy from the wily assaults of Nikita Koloff and company). The Midnight Express' blood feud with The Road Warriors. And then of course Ted Turner's buy out of JCP effectively turning the company completely into World Championship Wrestling.

With that said, I remembered a lot of events that happened AFTER that, Lex Luger's rise to the World Title, the Steiner Brothers' tag team dominance, The Fabulous Freebirds, Sting's ascension to being the franchise player of WCW. One of my favorite moments though definitely has to be Ron Simmons' being WCW World Champion. This was during the controversial era of Bill Watts running things, but man to see this guy make the strides he did in the organization was amazing. Going back to his days as Doom with Butch Reed, Simmons earned his stripes, and the feud with Vader for the belt was classic.

Anyway, with that said we are moving closer to the mid part of the 90s now, and this is where my exposure to WCW became even more possible because my hometown finally got TBS on its cable systems. So shows like WCW Main Event, WCW Saturday Night, and Clash Of The Champions became regular programming for me. Having already been familiar with the WCW product more or less, I was already aware of who many of the big names were. But now I got to see them every week on a regular basis, which was awesome.

Not to take anything away from Hulk Hogan, again I'm a raging Hogan mark, but WCW was very entertaining even before him. Despite some of the cheesy moments like the White Castle Of Fear and Beach Blast mini movies. But then again, let's not forget that this isn't far removed from the AWA's team challenge series and the WWF's segments like Fuji Vice, don't get me wrong I enjoyed Fuji Vice but it was all around silly stuff.

The wealth of talent circa 1993 was amazing, you had guys like Rick Rude, Vader, Ricky Steamboat, a returning Ric Flair, and Barry Windham who had an incredible year when he took the NWA World Title by beating The Great Muta as SuperBrawl III. Granted the NWA Title wasn't what it used to be it was still great to see a classic and talented wrestler like Barry Windham hold that belt for a good part of the calendar year.

I also don't want to overlook talent such as Arn Anderson, Johnny B. Badd, Bobby Eaton, Dustin Rhodes, Cactus Jack, 2 Cold Scorpio, Steven Regal. Then shift over to the tag team talent like Harlem Heat, The Hollywood Blondes, and even The Nasty Boys still had something to offer then.

A lot of this roster carried over to when Hogan signed in June of 1994. However, familiar faces like Michael Hayes, Ron Simmons, Rick Rude and Cactus Jack, amongst others were being phased out of the promotion by then. With that said, I've barely scratched the surface of what WCW had to offer pre-Hogan. The fact that a lot of these names still were in WCW when Hogan came along didn't hurt the success that WCW would have after Hogan's arrival.

I would say some of my favorite moments in this era of WCW were the following:

Cactus Jack's feud with Vader.

Dustin Rhodes' US Title rivalry with Rick Rude.

The Hollywood Blondes stranglehold on the tag team division.

Barry Windham's NWA World Title victory and revival of his feud with his former superior Ric Flair, this also included that great match at Slamboree 1993 with Arn Anderson.

So as I get ready to post this thread, who else here can share some of their fondest memories of the WCW before Hulk Hogan joined the organization. This can even include Jim Crockett Promotion moments. I look forward to the responses!

 

[closet_fan]

For me it was watching WCW on Saturdays once we got cable. It was so different and had a great appeal to me because it was much more wrestling oriented than WWF was at the same time. For me the one moment was when Mike Rotunda was part of the Varsity Squad and held the TV title. Having been a true TV title and defended every week, it seemed like he was champion longer than he actually was. I believe a month or so. Nobody could beat Rotunda at the time. Then Sting started to get pushed and finally beat him. Afterwards I remember he was carried around the outside of the ring by other FACE wrestlers.

Another thing that sticks out to me was the matches in front of literally 20-30 people in the studio. The audience may have been small, but the matches were still 5 star.

And the last was Barry Windham turning heel when he and Lugar faced Anderson and Blanchard.

 

[BenChillin]

As a kid I remember Sting vs Vader being a big deal when the feud started. Was that any good?

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

Well, unfortunately, I didn't watch very much WCW until after Hogan arrived, as I was a WWE mark through and through (even during the Monday Night Wars, I largely remained loyal to WWE). Plus even though we had TBS on cable, I just don't remember watching that channel very much at all. I started watching wrestling in 1991 shortly after Wrestlemania VII, so I do remember occasionally catching WCW every once in a while. I did know who Sid and Ric Flair were when they came to WWE in 1991, and I remember buying (or my parents buying for me lol) the Sting, Lex Luger, and Sid WCW action figures that came out in 1990 from Galoob.

What mainly helped me keep up on WCW was the Apter mags (to this day I still have my extensive collection of wrestling magazines). But ironically just like the original poster, I started watching WCW more frequently in 1993, which may have been frankly one of the best years ever for WCW (other than the company's peak from 96-98). Ironically the thing I remember the most about WCW at that time was the feud between the Horsemen and the Hollywood Blondes. I remembers specifically watching the Clash of the Champions from that year that had the Hollywood Blondes take on Flair and Anderson and it was great. I also remember watching Davey Boy Smith teaming with Sting to feud with Vader (being a WWE mark, I of course was a British Bulldog fan, so I definitely wanted to see what he was up to). And I do remember the Cactus Jack amnesia angle. Obviously since I've grown older I've went back and watched more WCW than I did as it happened. It's too bad that I ignored WCW for so long, because they really did have a fantastic roster during that time period in the early 90's.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

First time I ever heard of WCW was in a toy store in my hometown where there was a "Ric Flair" figure. I knew the WWF but there was no way to even see WCW in the late 80's UK to even know who he, Lex Luger or Sting was as World of Sports monthly US show was WWF. I spent most of 91 in the States so was there to see that Flair had left, abortion of a commercial for the Bash with PN Neus rapping. I didn't see Flair properly till right before I got back and Flair showed up in WWF so then I said "yeah". I also watched a lot of the GWF in it's early days (god help us)

They started to show Worldwide on ITV late 1991 but they kept moving the times. At one point it was Saturday afternoon in the past the "traditional" time for wrestling on the channel. Then it went later and later before disappearing by 1995.

So on this I saw a lot of the best and worst. From Cactus Is Missing to Rick Rude beating Sting for the US title in that epic match and Simmons winning the title. This coupled with the Apter/PWI mags was the extent of how the UK could partake of WCW without Sky, which again only sporadically showed Power Hour.

Talent wise they had a great roster in that period but the production values were often so poor it made them seem very bush leauge, which is saying something considering the old World Of Sport days of the UK scene. The Crabtrees got away with it as there was no UK competition, and when they showed the WWF it was "American Wrestling" not UK Wrestling, which was always fundamentally different with rounds etc.

What set WCW apart for a very brief time was how they used the talent they had throughout the card. Guys like The Freebirds, Steve Austin, Terry Taylor all had great talent but worked lower card feud and these guys were the ones you saw most on UK Worldwide. You saw some jobber matches but in the main it was always set up that the matchups had a good smattering of talent mixed with far more logical stories. When Ron Simmons won the World title, it was a shock but it made sense, far more than going to school and hearing Bret had won the WWF title off-screen.

I remember seeing some moments that seemed minor at the time but that I thought were game changers. Scott Steiner winning the TV title weeks before he left for WWF for example. At that point, I said to my brother "He's gonna be a World Champion" and had he and Rick not been dicks, I think he would have been much sooner in the WWF. Seeing Brian Pillman and Steve Austin's first match and Regal and Robbie V working excellent early feuds also led to such moments. It was that era that made me go to training and begin to wrestle myself, by 93 I was having matches myself and by 94 getting paid and that era of WCW was a large part of it, cos most of the guys weren't monsters so a small guy like me could do it if Scorpio or Chris Benoit could.

The only real mis-step was the "Top Rope" rules that Watts brought in, that stifled my enjoyment as I loved guys like Pillman and Scorpio, so no top rope moves seemed dumb.

To me once Bischoff got Hogan, it changed for the worse as suddenly all that logic and careful placement of guys in the card went out the window in favor of "who from WWF is there this week?"

Best I can equate it at the time is in the WWF, you knew the progression, that Hogan was gonna remain top dog, or Warrior and the only real deviation was when Bret won the belt. But even then you knew he wasn't gonna get the "long run" with it. In WCW you could see the talented guys getting not only pushed, but could see who the next top guys and the ones after them were going to be.

 

[closet_fan]

The only real mis-step was the "Top Rope" rules that Watts brought in, that stifled my enjoyment as I loved guys like Pillman and Scorpio, so no top rope moves seemed dumb.

Wasn't there also a rule where if you threw your opponent over the top rope you were DQ'd?

 

[ECW Sandman]

I remember back in the early 90's when you had wrestlers in WCW you never heard of and some you seen in WWF.


My favorite memories from WCW before Hogan jumped ship was, WCW Saturday Night for two hours from 6:05 PM to 8:05 PM, WCW Main Event on Sunday Nights. The Clash Of The Champions specials.

You got to see guys and girls that you never seen and see how they work in the ring the one person I most defiantly remember seeing my first time watching WCW was a guy named Sting.

I know in WWF they had Warrior but in WCW Sting was different yes both men had there face painted but when Sting hit that Stinger Splash it was something I had never seen in WWF and right then and there I was hooked on WCW I wanted to see more of this guy named Sting.

 

[Just2Sweet]

My earliest memory of WCW was Brian Pillman loosing a loser leaves town match and coming still wrestling under a mask as "The Yellow Dog". The other thing that stood out to me was how horrible the wrestler's theme music was compared to the WWF guys. Except for Rick Rude. His WCW theme music was great.

 

[Tattooed Jesus]

I am from South Carolina so I started watching WCW when it was still called the NWA. My first experience with wrestling was a caught an episode of NWA Worldwide Wrestling one Saturday afternoon and heard I Am Iron Man playing and saw The Road Warriors rush the ring and just destroy 2 jobbers in less than 30 seconds. I was instantly hooked. I didn't have cable then, so I didn't get TBS so all I saw was the few other syndicated shows like Worldwide Wrestling on Saturday and Sunday afternoons. We eventually got cable and TBS and I started watching World Championship Wrestling every Saturday night and Main Event every Sunday! I really had no idea about WWF at the time except for the occasional stuff I saw in magazines and we rented the first couple Wrestlemania dvds. Eventually got USA channel as well so I started getting a few WWF programs but I was much more into the NWA/WCW wrestlers like Sting, Flair and the Horsemen, Nikita Koloff, Magnum TA, Rock N Roll Express, Road Warriors, Midnight Express, than I was into the WWF guys. When Flair left WCW for the first time and went to WWF thats when things began to shift for me, the talent and level of storylines seemed to drop off in WCW and when Hogan first arrived in WCW I really hated it as by this time I was becoming more of fan of WWF anyway and was happy to see Hogan gone from there and he was showing up in WCW to do the same old shit he was doing in WWF. I enjoyed the nWo stuff but by that time I was a full blown WWF mark and loved everything they were doing during the Monday Night Wars and honestly couldn't care less about WCW by then as it was just a joke of it's former status.

 

[thebarber]

WCW pre-Hogan was a shambles to watch. It looked low rent,. poor production quality, the set for interviews was in spitting distance to the ring. The crowds sat on two sides of the room...it looked a mess.
PPVs were in large arenas, but they chopped and changed bookers so often that storylines barely ended, they just got forgotten about. Hogan made WCW relevant. Im not talking about the NWA Days, WCW 1988-1994 is where I am talknig, that 6 year period Turner only kept it afloat as he loved pro wrestling.

 

[spaldoni]

As a kid I remember Sting vs Vader being a big deal when the feud started. Was that any good?

That was a great feud. Those guys gave it 100% everytime they faced each other. They had some of the most hard hitting matches in WCW history. You should check them out on Youtube. I recommend the king of cable match at Starrcade and the strap match at Superbrawl 3.

 

[kor420]

WCW pre-Hogan was a shambles to watch. It looked low rent,. poor production quality, the set for interviews was in spitting distance to the ring. The crowds sat on two sides of the room...it looked a mess.
PPVs were in large arenas, but they chopped and changed bookers so often that storylines barely ended, they just got forgotten about. Hogan made WCW relevant. Im not talking about the NWA Days, WCW 1988-1994 is where I am talknig, that 6 year period Turner only kept it afloat as he loved pro wrestling.

That's you opinion, but you sir are a freakin' idiot! No wounder good wrestling is dying today if everyone like you that think wrestling is all about the glitz, glamour and billion dollar production quality.

Anyways I Loved sting, sting is the sole reason why i really got hooked into pro wrestling.. I been a fan since 86 and even though i watched wcw time from time but it was sting that had me where i couldn't miss an episode of wcw. I Was a little stinger!

 

[HBKperfect23]

I was mainly a WWF guy. Id watch WCW when I could. I was very into the Hollywood Blondes. They were great. Sting vs Vader is the feud I remember most, very enjoyable. I remember Great Muta winning the Battlebowl, I always found that to be a cool concept. I remember watching Saturday Night on TBS. I was a big Hogan fan but oddly enough found WCW to get worse when he arrived, thats around the time I stopped watching WCW

 

[thebarber]

That's you opinion, but you sir are a freakin' idiot! No wounder good wrestling is dying today if everyone like you that think wrestling is all about the glitz, glamour and billion dollar production quality.

Anyways I Loved sting, sting is the sole reason why i really got hooked into pro wrestling.. I been a fan since 86 and even though i watched wcw time from time but it was sting that had me where i couldn't miss an episode of wcw. I Was a little stinger!

Yes that is my opinion of WCW pre Hogan, thus answering the OP topic. You throwing insults around just shows one that you are a clown who cannot accept other peoples opinions. No it isnt ALL about the glitz and glamour, but before Hogan, WCW was a shit hole and a poor second to WWE. Fell free to voice your "idiotic" criticism, just makes you look a tool, kid.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

I think WCW had some area where production was good, but the majority of TV was bad. Their PPV's (which I could only get on video then) were not much worse than WWE. But considering they were owned by a TV network, Worldwide, Power Hour etc all seemed very cheaply made. A few times you could even see the "cheer/boo now" sign.

WWF shows made for syndication just seemed better done, but in reality I think they were just a little more creatively put together. Costs probably weren't that much different. WCW would have that interview set near the crowd, WWE would "wall off" backstage with Plywood. Only when you saw the Snuka coconut replayed did you ever realise it wasn't a special room in the backstage.

Good wrestling isn't dying because people prefer style over substance. Good wrestling is dying because Vince is no longer interested in presenting good wrestling but still can command the best talent and resources. Today those trying to put out good wrestling shows are struggling against not only Vince's chokehold on talent but the perception he creates of "sports entertainment" being the modern product and it being for kids and wrestling being "passe", add in a healthy dose of competition from MMA and you have a very hard situation for wrestling promoters and wrestlers, many would kill for just some of the production value of WWE.

 

[gydion]

Prior to Hogan the bosses changed almostly monthly. It was hard to follow because with each new boss came new storylines and different people getting pushed. There was an upside to Flair leaving in that we would get a new world champion. I am about the biggest Flair mark there is but after that many years as champ it was nice to see someone new.
The Bill Watts era was ok but had to many stupid rules. The worst was Jim Herd. The guy had worked for a tv station out of St.Louis that carried wrestling. He knew nothing about the business and it showed. Anyone remember "The Dudes with Attitudes".
I met a retired promoter from the the St.Louis area a number of years ago. He told me that the idea after Turner bought the company was to bring in Larry Matysik(st.louis promotor) and Frank "Brusier" Brody to run things. Shortly before Brody was killed and so was the deal which led to Herd. Don't know how true that story is but WCW would have been a very different place had it been ruled with St. Louis mindframe. To bad it didn't happen.

 

[braveh]

My impression from watching the Nitro and ClashOC dvds is that is was much more of a wrestling wrestling show before Hogan. When Hogan arrived Nitro became the entertainment show with PPV-caliber wrestling and complex stoylines.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Sting; Flair and the 4 Horsemen; Tag Teams that weren't two random guys that were thrown together like the two Expresses, Steiners, Road Warriors etc; all belts meant something - the TV Belt had as good a storyline as the US Belt, as the World Belt (even the Light Heavyweight Belt had a good period, Flyin Brian vs Jushin Liger was amazing). I loved the NWA/ WCW.

As for my favorite period - I'd probably go with the Dangerous Alliance era when we had Sting feuding with Luger, Vader and Rude. Steve Austin feuding with Ricky Steamboat. Double A and Larry Z feuding with Barry Windham and Dustin Rhodes. Happy times!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Can't say Brody would have done a great job, he was notorious for going into business for himself first so I am not sure he was the right guy. Jim Herd era was awful, Arachniman, The Ding Dongs, Van Hammer and JT Southern both using the same gimmick on the same show.

If anyone else "could" have made an impact in those early days of WCW I think Jake Roberts would have done. Had they anted up the cash and lured him away from Vince I think the business could have been very different with Jake working with a JJ Dillon type.

 

[Just Do It]

Wasn't there also a rule where if you threw your opponent over the top rope you were DQ'd?

Yes, Watts brought that in.

 

[HBsam31]

I watched a lot of WCW Saturday Night and also the morning shows. I loved The Clash of the Champions specials. I remember seeing a very young Brain Pillman having matches against Jushin Liger, and that was really my first taste of high flying wrestling. I remeber really getting behind Bobby Eaton when he broke into sigles and went for the TV title. I remember taking a liking to a young Chris Benoit in those time too. I was always a WWE guy first, but WCW was great to me to. In a way I actually preferred WCW in the pre Hogan days, but for different reasons. Don't get me wrong, I loved the NWO, but I always have had good memories of WCW before him.

 

[Wald]

I started watching it on Saturdays when a British TV company called ITV picked it up to rival Sky's insanely popular WWF programming (seriously, every kid traded WWF cards every lunchtime, you were really weird if you didn't like wrestling in Ireland in the early 90s).

Thoughts on it was that it looked cheap and that their characters were rip offs of the WWF. I, ashamedly, thought Sting was just a poor man's Ultimate Warrior for example (give me a break, I was 10).

Some good stuff did stand out though. I thought the Hollywood Blondes were excellent. I thought Vader and Sid were awesome as a team of ass kickers powerbombing whoever the hell they wanted to. I loved Cactus Jack. Weirdly enough I thought Johnny B. Badd was pretty good as well.

Biggest disappointment was Flair by far and away. The guy who ran our local video store used to tell me about how great Flair and the Horsemen were. I got to see him in action just before he joined the WWF and wasn't impressed. He looked old and dated to my young eyes. He then joined the WWF and I thought he was awesome, but when he went back to WCW he looked like he should retire again. I think it was due to the poor production that he didn't like a superstar, in my Vince McMahon trained eyes, in WCW to me.

 

[tgrfan]

I would say some of my favorite moments in this era of WCW were the following:

Cactus Jack's feud with Vader.

awwwwww man you are bringing back memories of my childhood.i remember this feud as well.it still stands out to me today.vader power bombing him on the concrete on saturday night.i was mad and upset.i remember the whole week before that fight i was jacked.telling my mom,dad,bro,sis,grand parents and aunts and uncles about it.i remember the night of the match i was at my gma's house and my aunt says to me before i leave."i hope your man cactus wins tonight".those were the days.i actually looked forward to watching wrestling back then.as a kid the black scorpions story had me hooked in as well.though it seems cheesy now.back then it was awesome

now i dont know if it is just that i am older now,the product not being the same,or the fact that many of the characters now dont compare to those back then.i just cant get to hyped for wrestling anymore.

 

[Waylon Mercy]

My first real exposure to pro wrestling was through the old NWA programs, airing on WTBS Atlanta. It was right before the Hulkamania and Rock and Wrestling explosion. The announcer was a small-in-stature, bookish little fellow with huge black rimmed-glasses. He had a nasally voice. Despite his nerdy appearance, I grew to appreciate his commentary a great deal. He had an encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling holds, and always appeared calm as he was dwarfed in ringside interviews by these intimidating characters. His name, of course, was Gordon Solie.
Gordon introduced me to the likes of Sting, Ric Flair and The 4 Horsemen, Dusty Rhodes, Mad Dog Buzz Sawyer, "Wildfire" Tommy Rich, Barry Windham, and the absolutely fearsome Road Warriors. It was a very intimate environment, live from the WTBS studio in Atlanta. The capacity crowd looked as though it was no more than 50 people. It was very primitive by today's standards, however these characters and the environment in which they displayed their craft was compelling. It was fly by the seat of your pants booking, and as a result, guys like Flair and Rhodes were given free range to cut brilliant unscripted promos. They were truly amazing on the mic.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I watched in the 80s thanks to TBS, before Turner bought the company, when Jim Crockett Jr was in charge and it was the NWA. The production values were not as slick as WWE (this is circa 86-87 range) but they were good enough. The promos were often more adult and violent in nature compared to WWE and the in ring wrestling was far superior, they also had a much higher level of brutality in their matches (old school NWA cage matches are the basis for todays Hell In A Cell just like todays Elimination Chamber is based in part on the War Games Matches). The talent was unreal, Jim Cornett & Midnight Express vs Rock & Roll Express was an awesome tag team feud back when tag team wrestling was a big deal (WWE tried to duplicate this creating the Hart Foundation, whth their wimpy, loud, southern manager, vs British Bulldogs), the bad *@# biker Road Warriors had an awesome look and gimmick, one of the 1st true examples of wrestlers changing from heel to face due to the positive crowd reaction to their character in spite of their booking (imitated by WWE with creation of Demolition), The Horsemen were great villains, particularly Flair & Tully Blanchard, nationwide no wrestler in the 80s was more popular than Dusty Rhodes except Hogan, Young stars like Magnum TA, Sting, & Nikita Kolloff were very popular, plus a good mix of veterans like Wahoo McDaniel, et all. Those programs circa 84-88 were often much more entertaining than the more kid friendly, Disney like WWE.

I think the 1st year after Turner's buyout (89) was good at the top of the card with Flair, Steamboat, Luger, Sting, Funk, and Mutah but the midcard was poorly promoted (a problem the company would struggle with throughout the 90s). Once Flair and Road Warriors left I quit watching, although Im aware of how good Ron Simmons was (I liked him earlier with Butch Reed in the tag team Doom), plus Sting, Rich Rude (who wrestled in the NWA 86-87 before joining WWE), Vader, all did good work even if the product was lackluster.

Flair's return and subsequent runs vs Vader & Steamboat were very entertaining pre Hogan. WCW was building a strong undercard in this time period getting good returns on Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Steven Regal, and Mick Foley, not too mention a young "Johnny B Badd" Marc Mero and Harlem Heat tag team. I actually really started enjoying the product in WCW 93-94 range more than WWE. Before Hogan signed it seemed WCW was heading for a Rick Rude faceturn, a major run vs Vader, and maybe a vs Flair and Sting in the World title scene which had a lot of potential. Ultimately Rude's injury and Hogan joining nixed much of that.

Favorite moments, there were many, Dusty & Magnum getting shafted by JJ Dillion in the $100,000 vs TV Title match with Tully Blanchard, Flair's feud with Jimmy Garvin over Prescious (the manequin date promo is an all time classic), Magnum TA vs Nikita Kolloff in the best of 7 series for the US title, Magnum vs Blanchard and the two title changes, Midnight Express cowardly trying to avoid The Road Warriors, Flair vs Ricky Morton (the training bra promo, the cement face rub locker room beat down, the cage matches), Simmons title push, Vader & Harley Race as a tandem, Hollywood Blondes, great Flair bouts vs Whyndam and Steamboat. Lotta great memories.