We're All Wrong, Alundra Blayze screwed Bret Hart.

[Dr. Stinger A. Zoidberg]

Yes, You hear it right. Bret didnt screw Bret. Shawn didnt screw Bret. Earl Hebner didnt screw Bret. Hell, even Vince didnt screw Bret. Alundra Blayze screwed Bret Hart. Hear me out:

In 1993, The WWF Had re-instated the Women's title. It was previously gone from WWF. They then had a 6 woman tournament to crown the new Women's Champion. Alundra Blayze won. Just a few months later, still women's champion. Alundra Blayze jumped ship to WCW. The WWF didnt do anything to stop her, she went to WCW as the WWF Women's Champion. Then, on a live episode of WCW Monday Nitro. Alundra Blayze threw the WWF Women's Championship in the trash. Causing the WWF to not have a women's title for another 3 years. Do the math. 1993/1994+3= 1996/1997.

At Survivor Series 1997, Bret was WWF Champion. He was going to leave the WWF shortly after the PPV. Vince did not want this to happen so he came up with a plan along with HBK and Earl Hebner to screw Bret Hart out of the WWF title. It worked.

It truly is no wonder why the Montreal Screwjob happened. The way I see it, If it wasnt for Alundra Blayze screwing the WWF out of the Women's title. The WWF wouldnt have screwed Bret Hart. They did not want the same dilemma to occur when Bret went to WCW. So really, when you read between the lines. Alundra Blayze screwed Bret Hart.

Thoughts?

 

[Yrrab]

Seems pretty clear to me. But, I feel as if Bret jumping ship to WCW with the title STILL would have run through Vince's head. Had Alundra not done what she had done, there may have not been a screwjob, but I still think it'd be quite possible regardless.

Interesting thread, can't wait to read some of the other responses.

 

[mlola]

I 100% agree. Had Alundra Blayze not done that, who knows how different the wrestling industry would be? I still think that Vince would have taken into account that Bret was still champion but I'm sure that they would have come up with some sort of solution to get the title off of him. Maybe they would have still thought of the planned finish with Bret relinquishing the title the next night on Raw.

 

[thomasj316]

ah. didnt think abt that. very smart of u but i dont think vince cared abt alundra blaze doing that, did anybody care? its not like i was callin my friends saying omg did u see what she did? hell no. that was bischoff trying to stick it to vince. but if u think abt it. there wasnt a better example of vince embarassing bischoff then taking a guy that bischoff said would never draw a dime and turning him into the biggest name this industry has ever seen. some guy name steve austin.lol

 

[Loveless]

Nooooo not Montreal again, nooooooooo!

OK, ignoring the historical inaccuracy of what you've said, in some way you've got a point that without her, the whole thing probably never happens but that would be to totally take away the bigger responsibility of everyone else. Had the owner of the WWE not been a paranoid madman then it also wouldn't have happened. Had Bret not been a massively deluded egomaniac then it wouldn't have happened. Had Shawn not been a prick, it wouldn't have happened. There were many contributing factors of which Debra Miceli was simply a small flame, fanned by everybody else.

 

[theHeadliner]

It wasn't about Bret taking the belt with him. It was the fact that if Bret didn't lose the belt at Survivor Series, Eric Bischoff would have went on live TV the next night and announced that he signed the CURRENT WWF champion Bret the Hitman Hart. That would have killed the WWF's credibility, made their championship and promotion look weak, and really peaked interest to WCW even more. The word was leaked out by the WWF that Bret was leaving when it was supposed to be kept quiet, so Vince used that as leverage saying he couldn't have it known that the current champ was jumping promotions so he had to get the belt off him. As long as the word was out, anything was fair game, even for WCW. It had to be a high-profile PPV match. If the belt was dropped on RAW it would have been too late cus Nitro went on the air an hour earlier and the whole world would know that the WWF champion must have thought the WWF was a bad place to work so he left.

 

[Kanye South]

When I first saw this thread title, I was like, "Wasn't Alundra Blayze that bitch who dropped her title in the trash can?". And sure enough, I was right. I thought about it for a minute and realized that if shorty didn't drop the Women's Title into the trash can on live WCW television, then Vince wouldn't have been paranoid and abruptly ended Bret's title reign. If it wasn't for Blayze, then there would be no reason for Vince to not trust a loyal worker like Bret. Alundra Blayze screwed Bret the way the 9/11 terrorists screwed every innocent Middle Eastern looking person in the US. I'll give you a minute to figure that one out.

Lulz, shorty.

 

[ncwriter2908]

i didnt think Vince cared about the womens title that much. He didnt care that she did that. As for the WWE championship that is the top belt in the company. If you think that then in a way Ric Flair screwed Bret Hart. Flair was NWA/WCW champion when he signed with WWF. He appeared on the show with the belt for awhile. They even made WWF blur it out. So I am sure Vince didnt want to see his belt in that postion. Vince knew all to well if Bret was champion then he could do that. After all he was the one contacting Flair and telling him to bring the belt to WWE.

 

[Savion83]

Wow! The whole thing with Vince Mchaon screwing Bret Hart out of the WWF title was done out of Vince being paranoid for all the wrong reasons man. Bret would never go to WCW and just through the WWF belt in the trash like Alundra Blayze did. Because...

1. Bret Hart is a man of integrity! He would never do something like that to the company that made him a superstar, unlike Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Savage might have during the Monday Night Wars.

2. Alundra Blayze is diffrent from Bret Hart. Not only gender wise but the gender factor does play a factor! Eric Bischoff talked Blayze into dumping the WWF woman's belt in the trash live on Nitro that night. And Alundra gave into her P.M.S. anger towards Vince McMahon's WWF after a falling out.

So to compare both Bret Hart and Alundra Blayze is not right! Alundra Blayze will not even be remembered like past WWF/E women wrestlers. If so she would be in the WWE hall of fame by now. The biggest history Blayze ever made was dumping the WWF woman's championship belt in the trash on WCW's nitro. THE END!

 

[XgringolocoX]

Dude, this whole arguement is so tired and fucking lame. Montreal happened because you had 3 HUGE egos clashing. Bret didn't want to back down, neither did Vince or Shawn. All parties had ligit interests to protect and each did what they felt was right at the time to protect said interests. ALL PARTIES ARE TO BLAME. Bret, Vince, Shawn, and Trips (yeah, he came up with the screw job from what I heard)..all these guys could have compromised a bit more to give everyone what the wanted or needed.
Bottom line is that no one screwed anyone. Each party involved shares responsibility as they are all to blame equally.

 

[dettigers10]

I dont think bret would have done it but all the mistakes vince made during that period revolved around taking other wrestlers word for anything they said at that time which is his own fault he did screw bret but idk it was a bad situation for all involved in the end heat with hbk or not bret should have just dropped the belt same with madusa some rules just should not be broken and leaving with the belt is one of them Flair included he should have dropped the belt to Luger and not made a big deal out of it Flair seems to get by because he is ric flair.

 

[supaman5279]

i agree. eric bischoff wouldve had no problem throwin the wwf/e championship right in the dumpster. if alundra blaze/madusa didnt throw away the womens championship then vince mcmahon wouldnt have been all paranoid about bret hart or anyone in wcw to do the same. madusa screwed bret

 

[proofinlife]

Dude, this whole arguement is so tired and fucking lame. Montreal happened because you had 3 HUGE egos clashing. Bret didn't want to back down, neither did Vince or Shawn. All parties had ligit interests to protect and each did what they felt was right at the time to protect said interests. ALL PARTIES ARE TO BLAME. Bret, Vince, Shawn, and Trips (yeah, he came up with the screw job from what I heard)..all these guys could have compromised a bit more to give everyone what the wanted or needed.
Bottom line is that no one screwed anyone. Each party involved shares responsibility as they are all to blame equally.

Do you have any factual data to back that up? There have been too many articles, interviews, and a whole DVD dedicated to the screwjob that basically makes it clearly known that it was a case of Vince not wanting to take the chance of Bret already being signed to WCW the night he proposed to "hand the belt back" on TV. Like everyone else has said, it was a matter of Vince protecting his investment, just like Bret was trying to protect his character from not being pinned in his own country.

The only thing Triple H has heat over is the fact that he was friends with Bret at the time (but obviously a hell of a lot closer to HBK and Vince), and did absolutely nothing to stop it or give bret a head's up (which you can clearly hear Julia/Julie (sp?) Hart screaming at triple h in the "Wrestling with Shadows" Documentary DVD).

About the whole Alundra thing, it's a double edge sword, so to speak. Vince didn't give two craps about the women's division, and agents among others totally ignored the fact that her contract was expiring (because they assumed she'd resign given the fact they had the women's strap on her), and when they turned their TV to Nitro to see their women's champion they had assumed would ink another deal throwing their belt in the trash can, it not only showed their mistake in having faith, but also showed exactly what Bischoff would do to one up the WWF at any costs.

This obviously did play a factor in Vince's decision regarding the belt and Bret Hart, and like Headliner said, he didn't want to take the chance of Bischoff or some other on-screen role going on TV announcing the signing of the WWF Champion an hour before Hart proposed he'd "hand the title over".

Also, the mere fact that the whole idea Bret proposed would've exposed the fact that Bret was leaving for another company, and would've made WWF look inferior in many ways. Vince was only protecting his company and investments by doing the screwjob, and HBK and Earl Hebner were obviously the only two of the three guys involved (Bret; wrestler, HBK; wrestler, Hebner; referree) that could have possibly been let known for obvious reason.

So, in only a small way did Alundra Blaze contribute to it, not so much in a direct manner as it was exposing Bischoff's need to embarrass Mcmahon and attempt to subvert people over to "his promotion" by any means necessary.

 

[scorpioking1026]

i didnt think Vince cared about the womens title that much. He didnt care that she did that. As for the WWE championship that is the top belt in the company. If you think that then in a way Ric Flair screwed Bret Hart. Flair was NWA/WCW champion when he signed with WWF. He appeared on the show with the belt for awhile. They even made WWF blur it out. So I am sure Vince didnt want to see his belt in that postion. Vince knew all to well if Bret was champion then he could do that. After all he was the one contacting Flair and telling him to bring the belt to WWE.

Flair isn't exactly the best example to use in this discussion because Flair is the one who paid for the WCW championship belt after the NWA dropped alliances kind of like what happened to TNA.

What should have happened instead of the Montreal ScrewJob:

The next night's Raw was taped before the Survivor Series, that's how Ravishing Rick Rude had the rare opportunity of being on both shows the same night. Vince should have had Bret lose the title to Shawn there, the show was taped in Canada. Cuz in truth "Ravishing" Rick Rude's speech on Nitro the day after SS, when he joined the NWO, was very damaging to WWE's creadabilty. Hell, the ScrewJob is why Rude left, since he was on a pay per appearance contract, in fact he was in the locker room after the show with Bret and Vince and he was the one who called Bischoff to tell him that what happened on SS was real and not a storyline. Rude didn't just rip into Vince but also Shawn that night yet when you flipped over to Raw they was Rude with Shawn and DX praising Shawn. The fact that Rude left cuz of that incident is what helped drive home to fans about how serious the ScrewJob really was.

Having Bret lose the belt at the taped raw would have worked cuz he didn't show up on Nitro till about a month after SS.

 

[UseYourBrain]

Sometimes I read a thread that's so tired and hopeless I decide it's better off just not to respond... and sometimes I respond anyway.

Saying Alundra screwed Bret is like saying Ric Flair screwed Bret when he game to the WWF with WCW's belt, which started the "belt wars" as we know them.

But... let's take it one step further.

Flair taking the belt was an act of treason on his part toward WCW... and he would have never done so if Jim Herd hadn't driven him to do it.

So, there. Jim Herd screwed Bret Hart.

Give me a break. Each man is responsible for his own actions. The truth is simple: Bret, Vince, Shawn, Hunter, Brisco, and Hebner all played their parts in the screwing of Bret Hart.

 

[wazaveli]

i didnt think Vince cared about the womens title that much. He didnt care that she did that. As for the WWE championship that is the top belt in the company. If you think that then in a way Ric Flair screwed Bret Hart. Flair was NWA/WCW champion when he signed with WWF. He appeared on the show with the belt for awhile. They even made WWF blur it out. So I am sure Vince didnt want to see his belt in that postion. Vince knew all to well if Bret was champion then he could do that. After all he was the one contacting Flair and telling him to bring the belt to WWE.

Good point but seriously, even if he didn't care about the title. At the end of the day, learning from what he did with the WCW big gold belt, which you brought up. Why in the world would he let her leave with his Title Belt. Who cares which one it is.

This is a good thread and makes you think, maybe the Women's Title in the trsh did make Vince more paranoid. But there was so many factors to this who knows how it would of ended up.

 

[Terry'sGordy]

What people always seem to leave out on this topic is that Bret was still signed to Vince till the end of November(the 30th) so when they bring up the "Vince was affraid Bret would show up the next night on WCW with the WWE title" and that's why he screwed him I just laugh.

People also forget that Vince wanted Race to no-show the first Starrcade in 1983 and show up on WWF t.v. with the NWA title but Race turned him down.

 

[JJohns]

I'll say this, the Screwjob comes down to Vince McMahon making a bad business decision. He overestimated the market when he signed Bret to that last contract, and he gave Bret creative control over the last 30 days if he decided he needed to terminate it. Had those two factors not have been in play, Bret probably would have been in WWE still to this day in some capacity, he career wouldn't have ended to a Bill Goldberg kick, and possibly Owen might still be alive to this day.

 

[JJohns]

The next night's Raw was taped before the Survivor Series, that's how Ravishing Rick Rude had the rare opportunity of being on both shows the same night. Vince should have had Bret lose the title to Shawn there, the show was taped in Canada. Cuz in truth "Ravishing" Rick Rude's speech on Nitro the day after SS, when he joined the NWO, was very damaging to WWE's creadabilty. Hell, the ScrewJob is why Rude left, since he was on a pay per appearance contract, in fact he was in the locker room after the show with Bret and Vince and he was the one who called Bischoff to tell him that what happened on SS was real and not a storyline. Rude didn't just rip into Vince but also Shawn that night yet when you flipped over to Raw they was Rude with Shawn and DX praising Shawn. The fact that Rude left cuz of that incident is what helped drive home to fans about how serious the ScrewJob really was.

Rude didn't appear in WCW after the screw job until the week after Survivor Series if I remember correctly, it might have been even a little later than that. It surely wasn't taped BEFORE Survivor Series, as Shawn lied to Bret and told him that he wouldn't show up for TV the next day with the Belt, and they even shown replays of the ending of the match DURING the show.

 

[theHeadliner]

The thing is, Bret couldn't come on TV the following night, give a speech putting over the company and forfeiting the belt at the same time to LEAVE for the DIRECT COMPETITION. That would have been a slap in the face to the business and credibility of the WWF. Bret wasn't contractually obligated after the Survivor Series because he gave his notice and that PPV was his last obligated event. If that was the case, Vince could have forced him to appear on WWF until his WCW contract took affect. Also, the creative control was over the character, not the bookings and who that character loses to. If he didn't want to be a heel, he could have saved face in those last 30 days but when it came to booking and who goes over, that wasn't part of the creative control of his character.

 

[JJohns]

The thing is, Bret couldn't come on TV the following night, give a speech putting over the company and forfeiting the belt at the same time to LEAVE for the DIRECT COMPETITION. That would have been a slap in the face to the business and credibility of the WWF. Bret wasn't contractually obligated after the Survivor Series because he gave his notice and that PPV was his last obligated event. If that was the case, Vince could have forced him to appear on WWF until his WCW contract took affect. Also, the creative control was over the character, not the bookings and who that character loses to. If he didn't want to be a heel, he could have saved face in those last 30 days but when it came to booking and who goes over, that wasn't part of the creative control of his character.

Actually, part of the creative control of the character always deals with who they lose to. In fact, Bret said that he would drop the title to anyone but Shawn. He couldn't change who he was facing, but he had control, under his contract, for the finish.

 

[theHeadliner]

Actually, part of the creative control of the character always deals with who they lose to. In fact, Bret said that he would drop the title to anyone but Shawn. He couldn't change who he was facing, but he had control, under his contract, for the finish.

Yeah, but that's Bret talking. Thats not the lawyers and legal team. If Bret was adamant on not losing to Shawn in the first place he could have boycotted showing up at all. Him and Vince went back and forth and back and forth that whole week. Yes Vince lied to him about the finish, but Bret himself said that he lied to him all through 1997 and he knew it at the time. He said himself he was already aware of the idea of a swerve or screwjob happening.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Yeah I see the point that the thread's starter is trying to make, but throwing the title in the trash wasn't Alundra's choice.... Bischoff talked her into doing it. However, this did create the potential for much worse situations, a WWF Champion leaving the federation AS the WWF Champion the way Alundra Blayze left AS the Womens Champion. Vince couldn't risk Bret doing something similar to the title onscreeen in WCW obviously. You can't pin all the blame on any one person. Bret, Vince, HBK, and Trips were all wrong in one way or another when it comes to the Montreal Screwjob. All of them deserve more of the blame than Alundra Blayze who was just doing what she was told. Her situation only plays a small part in why the screwjob happened. The argument that Alundra Blayze screwed Bret Hart is wrong because it wasn't her idea and she only did it after she was convinced to. If we're using the thread starter's argument and reason(s) for who screwed Bret Hart, then it was BISCHOFF, not Alundra, because he was the one who convinced her to throw the Womens Championship away onscreen in the first place.

 

[Chrome]

Guys this idea has been debunked by Bret himself on many interviews.. but I will take it a step further.. this was NOT the first screw job.

Back in 1985 Vince did the same thing to Wendi Ritcher. I won't type up ALL the details but I found a nice little copy and paste.

In 1985, after losing and then regaining the title from rival Leilani Kai at the inaugural WrestleMania, Richter was scheduled to defend her women's title at Madison Square Garden on November 25 of that same year against a mysterious masked opponent known only as The Spider Lady. Moments into the match, The Spider Lady broke from the pre-scripted events and pinned Richter's shoulders to the mat. The referee—who was in on the plan—delivered a swift three count, despite Richter kicking out after a count of one.

Richter ignored the bell and continued to attack the Spider, unmasking the new champion to reveal that it was The Fabulous Moolah in disguise.

It was reported that the plan to rid Richter of the title was concocted by WWF Chairman Vince McMahon, who brought in Moolah after Richter refused to sign a new contract with the WWF. Richter, however, claims she was still under her original five year contract, but that she regularly had disagreements with McMahon about her compensation. She also claims that when she arrived at the arena that day, she was surprised to find Moolah backstage, as she never showed up to events for which she was not scheduled to wrestle. After the match, an infuriated Richter left the arena in her wrestling gear, took a cab to the airport, and booked herself on a flight out of New York. Afterward, she never spoke to either McMahon or Moolah again.

THIS was 1985.. if he screwed someone then.. he would do it again..

In regards to Bret.. he himself said that the title had nothing to do with the screw job as WCW and WWF were in a legal battle over the alundra blaze incident and that WCW would have NOT been able to use it on TV anyway as a result of it, since it was STILL in legal battles 3 years later. So that has been debunked many times over.. its just Vince being Vince.. decided to go the shady route instead of the upfront route. In short History repeated itself. AND I find it funny that Vince had Ric Flair bring the NWA title to WWF and showed it on TV but had issue with Bret? nah it was debunked.. see above.. but I do find irony in how people try to paint a picture on how Vince is right in the matter lol The man is a proven snake in the grass.

Vince screwed Bret.. because Vince isnt trustworthy himself, so how can he trust anyone?

 

[Tastycles]

The Wendi Richter incident and what he had Flair do would imply that Vince was firstly defensive of his own titles and secondly well aware of what a promotion could do when they got their hands on somebody else's title. You can argue till the cows come home about who was responsible for the Screjob but fundamentally the cause is the dog eat dog nature of the wrestling industry. Nobody in the world would transfer sports teams and then publically destroy their former team's shirt, but in wrestling the destruction of the competition is seen as the norm, and Vince was protecting his interests. Had Goldberg decided to jump ship to WWF while WCW Champion, Bischoff would have done exactly the same thing.