What if Hogan Never Came to WCW

[klunderbunker]

Flash back with me to WCW in 1994. To say WCW was stacked is an understatement. Let's take a look at what was going on.

On top of the card we have a face Ric Flair as world champion and he was AWESOME. The money was rolling in for him and things looked great.

Sting was his usual great self and was feuding with Rick Rude over the Big Gold Belt which was the NWA Title to an extent.

Mick Foley was being allowed to be himself, resulting in not only some great matches and promos, but a more hardcore style that was incredibly well received.

Ricky Steamboat was healthy and could have great matches with anyone of course.

Johnny B Badd had gotten a lot more serious and therefore a lot better in the ring.

DDP was a rising star that was still improving but would be something special in a year or two.

Vader was around as a monster heel that anyone could have a program with that would work very well.

And then there was the hidden jewel of the bunch: Steve Austin. Now even WCW saw the potential in this guy (Bischoff is lying through his ass when he says there was no way to market him. If not then why was he a tag champion, TV champion and US champion? That sounds like they marketed him just fine to me). Around this time he was bashing the old school guys and wearing black and cursing all the time. I've read reports in various places that say he was going to go up against Flair by the end of 1994 and become world champion or at least make a very serious run at it, which makes sense given the Flair for the Old segments that he and Pillman ran.

Coupling these with the older guys that they had plus others, WCW was STACKED. The young guys were there and they were ready. DDP, Austin, Foley and Flair were all still big players in the late 90s so they definitely could have been big players in WCW.

Enter Hulk Hogan. WCW decided that getting him was the only way to become a major challenge to Vince and the WWF so Hogan was brought in and instantly things changed. Foley was turned into a shell of his former self, Austin was more or less thrown out, Badd had to have a feud with Honky Tonk Man of all people, guys like Orndorff (who was being pushed before Hogan got there to be fair) and Duggan were pushed to the moon over guys they had no business beating, and Vader became a glorified joke that never really got a big win again.

But most of all, Ric Flair went from being an incredibly popular star to being still popular, but made to look like a blithering idiot that would be jobbed to Hogan every single chance the company had to do so. To this day whenever he's in the same company as Hogan, not only is he obsessed with beating him, but I believe he's won one big singles match over him to Hogan's probably 10 or so. Hell even in TNA Hogan has dominated Flair, even through them both having their own teams.

So what I ask is this: what if Hogan had simply retired? He goes to Hollywood and becomes an actor permanently and WCW has to go on using the guys they had. What would have happened? Could they have caught Vince? Could they have become a major force in wrestling like they did? Would WWF have gone under as Austin likely would have been in WCW?

What do you think?

 

[TellMeWhy]

Man it sounds like you're secretly trying to pinpoint Hogan coming in on why the pushes for everyone else dwindled. If that's what you want to do, then STOP. You can't blame 1 man for that. You have to blame management for not having foresight and not sticking through with their plans of pushing the guys they had their eye on.

If Hogan never came to WCW, WCW may have never did their biggest buyrate, the greatest stable and probably the greatest storyline of all time may have never existed with the nWo, WCW probably would've never had the balls to go on Monday, and Ted Turner would've probably never gave them a Monday primetime slot. Hogan coming to WCW was a great move for wrestling. It changed the business and ushered in a golden era in prowrestling.

 

[klunderbunker]

See that's the funny thing: you CAN blame Hogan for all these pushes ending. he's given full creative control of his character and has a ton of backstage pull and all of a sudden the young guys' pushes stop dead? How stupid would you have to be to not connect the dots here? Management had pushed these guys up for years and all of a sudden they just stop at the same time Hogan gets there? Yeah.....there's nothing weird about that at all. Also you say blame management. Hogan had creative control over his character, meaning he was writing aspect of the show. Sounds like creative/management to me.

 

[hatehabsforever]

If Hogan had never come to WCW, things would have wound up the same in the end, but the journey there would have been different. In the end, WWE would still have remained the dominant wrestling promotion, and WCW likely would have still folded, and Vince likely would have purchased the remnants of it as he did.

But without Hogan, WCW would never have challenged WWE to the extent they did in the first place. They would have spun their wheels for a while as a distant second place company, and then later folded. Much like TNA today does have some talent and potential, but will never challenge WWE, not really, WCW would have plodded along with the talent you mentioned, but they would have never mounted a challenge to WWE.

Without Hogan, the nWo storyline never becomes as big as it did. Hall and Nash alone wouldn't have been enough to generate as much interest as it did. They would have achieved Main Event Mafia status and that's about it. Without nWo, WCW doesn't challenge WWE. They would have developed talent who would have become as big as a second rate company can make you, then these guys would have jumped to WWE.

It's difficult to defeat a company who is well established and a clear number one. A new football league will have a really difficult time challenging the NFL. Same with the NBA, NHL, whatever. It will be hard for TNA to ever pose a threat. And WCW would have had a hard time doing so without Hogan.

 

[MrHashasheen]

*snip*

I call bullshit. They were already a big challenge for the WWF, and if Hogan stuck up north to fuck things up with title reigns for himself and main event status, the WCW would have had a very good chance of overtaking them like they did in the latter half of '96 and all of '97 and they would have stayed there. They had good workers and names to carry their brand in wrestling while McMahon would have been stuck with Hogan and the Kliq causing hell in the WWF for the rest of the workers chances to shine at the top.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I call bullshit. They were already a big challenge for the WWF, and if Hogan stuck up north to fuck things up with title reigns for himself and main event status, the WCW would have had a very good chance of overtaking them like they did in the latter half of '96 and all of '97 and they would have stayed there. They had good workers and names to carry their brand in wrestling while McMahon would have been stuck with Hogan and the Kliq causing hell in the WWF for the rest of the workers chances to shine at the top.

I say bullshit right back at you. How were they already a big challenge to the WWE? They were a distant second compared to WWE. You may have liked the WCW and that's fine, no one's arguing with you, just like lots of people today like the TNA product, but just because a select few like the product doesn't necessarily mean they'll challenge for the number one position.

Look at TNA today. Lots of talent. Tons of potential. Rabid and loyal fans (unfortunately not many though). And barely cracking 1.0 in the ratings. This is not a TNA bash, it's just stating facts. Same would be the case with WCW in my opinion. They had their Stunning Steve Austin, and Giant, and Sting, and Jericho, and many others, but they would never have moved up the ratings like they did without Hogan.

Back then, I was one of the guys who was swayed away from WWF and began watching WCW. Why? Because of the nWo and the impact this was having on the wrestling business of the time. A combination of WWF guys, lead by Hogan, as well as some homegrown WCW guys, turning the wrestling world on its ear. nWO enticed me away, so by default, Hogan enticed me away. Not Benoit. Not Flair. Not Guerrero. I think I was likely a pretty typical young fan at the time and I think lots of guys like me were drawn away by the Hogan-lead nWo, but would not have been drawn away by the other guys. And I think the numbers would validate this.

 

[joeberg]

If Hogan had stayed in the WWF, I don't know that the Kliq would've really been an issue. I'm not sure if any of them would've been allowed to rise above mid-card status.

This could have led to Michaels going to WCW where, despite there being a ton of potential for great matches, he probably would've been a long term TV champ and currently working random indy shows with Jannetty.

 

[Whatsinaname696]

Can bash on Hogan all ya want, fact is half or more wouldn't have or have had jobs if it wasn't for him. If Hogan never goes to wcw, no stone cold, no jericho, no mysterio, no triple h, no a lot of f'n people, if hogan doesn't go to WCW no greatest storyline ever in wrestling, can disagree with that, but you'ld be wrong. DX wouldn't have been nearly as big as they became. Pro-wrestling is the house that Hogan built for the masses... Twice!

That being said, I'm sure a lot of diff people may very well be at the top now or higher than they may have become, ya never know, on the same token, alot of wrestlers people love and worship wouldn't be around today or at the very least not held in the same regard, and asking the question this many years out just makes it even harder to speculate

 

[Powerbomber]

I am seriously getting tired of reading all this anti - Hogan nonsense. With all the names you mentioned, WCW was nothing more than a southern area promotion, period. The "great" Rick Flair in his prime did NOTHING to lift the WCW to a level where it could compete with the WWF.

Enter Hogan - Hogan made the WCW relevant, first by having the so caller "dream match" versus Rick Flair. If you are a business man, you don't take your biggest star, your household brand name, and have him "job" to Flair or any of these so caller "younger" guys who may or may not have had star power. You ride your meal ticket all the way to the bank.

Then came the biggest heal turn in the history of wrestling and the most intriguing story line ever created - the NWO. For a while there WCW took over as the main stream promotion and the WWF took a back seat.

The ONLY reason that the WCW folded was because of corporate realignment. The AOL Time Warner split forced the sale as AOL was getting out of the TV business and the brand WCW was sold it to Vince. This had nothing to due with Hogan or any other wrestler. And I maintain that if things were different, you may have 2 solid promotions right now instead of one David and Goliath.

But I digress - the point is that Hulk Hogan made wrestling, Hollywood Hogan made the WCW and the only reason TNA is relevant now is because Hogan is there. Not Steve Austin, not Mick Foley, not Rick Flair. Hogan! These no names are driving tractor trailers if it wasn't for Hogan, but instead they are are all rich because of him.

And Hogan still draws the over 35 crowd - that's the crowd that advertisers like because we got the coin dude. Furthermore Hogan at 50 something still looks better body wise than half of these Johnny come latelies.

So stick all this anti Hogan bullshit where the sun don't shine brotha -Hogan rules now, he ruled then and that's the way it is - deal with it.

 

[klunderbunker]

I am seriously getting tired of reading all this anti - Hogan nonsense. With all the names you mentioned, WCW was nothing more than a southern area promotion, period. The "great" Rick Flair in his prime did NOTHING to lift the WCW to a level where it could compete with the WWF.

Enter Hogan - Hogan made the WCW relevant, first by having the so caller "dream match" versus Rick Flair. If you are a business man, you don't take your biggest star, your household brand name, and have him "job" to Flair or any of these so caller "younger" guys who may or may not have had star power. You ride your meal ticket all the way to the bank.

Then came the biggest heal turn in the history of wrestling and the most intriguing story line ever created - the NWO. For a while there WCW took over as the main stream promotion and the WWF took a back seat.

The ONLY reason that the WCW folded was because of corporate realignment. The AOL Time Warner split forced the sale as AOL was getting out of the TV business and the brand WCW was sold it to Vince. This had nothing to due with Hogan or any other wrestler. And I maintain that if things were different, you may have 2 solid promotions right now instead of one David and Goliath.

But I digress - the point is that Hulk Hogan made wrestling, Hollywood Hogan made the WCW and the only reason TNA is relevant now is because Hogan is there. Not Steve Austin, not Mick Foley, not Rick Flair. Hogan! These no names are driving tractor trailers if it wasn't for Hogan, but instead they are are all rich because of him.

And Hogan still draws the over 35 crowd - that's the crowd that advertisers like because we got the coin dude. Furthermore Hogan at 50 something still looks better body wise than half of these Johnny come latelies.

So stick all this anti Hogan bullshit where the sun don't shine brotha -Hogan rules now, he ruled then and that's the way it is - deal with it.

Dude, you are an idiot.

The merger was all that killed WCW? That is about as much bullshit as you could possibly say. The company lost 50 million dollars in a year, but it was a merger that killed it? Read a damn book before you try to "educate" us please.

Hogan draws the over 35 crowd? yeah that's why his TNA segments were getting the lowest ratings of the week for Impact when he was the star of the show earlier this year. SO many people were watching him that they were breaking ratings records for people not watching.

Yeah Hogan made WCW relevant. He made them so relevant that after about two years they hadn't pulled ahead at all but he was still pulling in huge paychecks.

I'm as big of a WWF fan as there is here and even I know half of what you said is total bullshit. Hogan's ego with shows like Starrcade 97 and the Fingerpoke of Doom is a big reason why there's no WCW anymore and to argue otherwise if flat out stupid.

Also, keep in mind this thread isn't about if Hogan had stayed in WWF. It's about if after he left WWF in 93 that he didn't got to WCW. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Stunner=RKO]

If hogan never came to WCW...It would still be alive and kicking...end of story..and u fuckers defendin hogan are idiots..all u guys who agree wit me see the light..go fuck urself hogan lovers he is poison...thatz my 2 cents.


FUCK HOGAN

 

[Барбоса]

Hogan did indeed draw money for WCW. There is little denying that but at the same time as he was bringing success to the company, he was sowing the seeds of its eventual downfall. His creative control of his character meant that he could keep himself and his friends on top longer than they should have been. Viewers that had grown up with wrestling were now too old for the superhero style gimmicks. They wanted something more cutting edge and both WCW and WWF listened with the nWo and SCSA.

However, again Hogan's creative control got in the way. The nWo should have died at Starrcade against the returning Sting but Hogan refused to lose clean and his long term partnership with Hall and Nash led them to think that they could act the same way.

Yes, Hogan meant a great deal to the explosion of wrestling popularity in the 80s and 90s and continued to be good for business following his switch to Georgia but he laid long term problems by disrupting the hierarchy of WCW. To disregard the damning evidence of his involvement in the killing of WCW is just blind hero worship.

Now to address the question actually posed in this thread.

There really was so much potential in the WCW roster in mid 1994 for the reasons stated in the opening post. There are some mouth-watering potential feuds there - an extended Steamboat-Austin series; Rude-Steamboat; Vader-Austin could have had some epic hardcore encounters while Foley could have done a similar kind of job with DDP as Savage would do later.

I would also add that in 1994, there was a certain, young Paul Michael Levesque on the WCW roster too. Straight away you have three of the main stars that were to turn WWF's fortunes around in the late 90s. Not only would their continued presence on the WCW roster have changed the outlook of WWF but if WCW had been willing to go more cutting edge with these guys as they did with Hogan, Hall and Nash then perhaps we would have seen a similar charge in the ratings as did occur with the nWo but without the problems that came with over-paid and under-policed backstage politicians wheeling and dealing their way into positions of power.

Not only would no Austin have been crippling for McMahon but with potentially no HHH to help kick-start DX with HBK and later no Foley to pose a legitimate and multi-faceted threat to the Undertaker then WWF would likely not have made the transition to the "Attitude Era."

 

[shankit231]

I'd Have to say Hogan helped WCW but also killed it and himself. He became to much of a whine ass always wanting the win(remember Hogan vs. Orton at Summerslam, ORTON SHOULD OF WON). Look at the story line between him and Jeff Jarret where he had such a problem with losing that they had Jeff Jarrett Lay down so he can have the win, that is where I think he killed WCW a little bit. Hulk Hogan kept on thinking the company was about him when he had trouble realizing that his time there was already up.

Hulk Hogan can't realize its time to move on his time is over. He always says TNA is full of young great talent but hes only trying to get back older people and giving them the pushes. I think with TNA hogan just needs to step away and let Bishoff do the job.

 

[FuzzyDunlop]

I'd Have to say Hogan helped WCW but also killed it and himself. He became to much of a whine ass always wanting the win(remember Hogan vs. Orton at Summerslam, ORTON SHOULD OF WON). Look at the story line between him and Jeff Jarret where he had such a problem with losing that they had Jeff Jarrett Lay down so he can have the win, that is where I think he killed WCW a little bit. Hulk Hogan kept on thinking the company was about him when he had trouble realizing that his time there was already up.

Hulk Hogan can't realize its time to move on his time is over. He always says TNA is full of young great talent but hes only trying to get back older people and giving them the pushes. I think with TNA hogan just needs to step away and let Bishoff do the job.

If I was Hogan,I would have had a problem with losing to Jeff Jarrett. The main reason being the fans didn't give a damn about the guy. Seriously,I'd never seen a supposed main event talent draw as little heat as Jeff Jarrett. Mike Graham said it best: "The guy broke 6,000 guitars that year,and didn't draw a dime. As much as I don't like Hogan,that's the one time I don't blame him for not wanting to lose.

As far as Bischoff goes,when they send Hogan packing,they need to send him packing as well. He's too beholden to the older wrestlers. How did he put it,"guys like Chris Jericho are nice,but they're not the ones putting the asses in the seats."

 

[Kenny Powers]

This is a really interesting topic because if Hogan did retire after leaving WWE then we would have probably never seen a Monday Night War, the McMahon/Austin feud, or even DX. Could the talent WCW had elevate them to the top without Hogan? It could have with stars like Jericho, Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero, Foley, Flair, Vader, and Austin just to name a few. I don't think we would have seen the attitude era in WWE which contributed a lot to WWE staying in business.

Without Austin, the NWO, and the attitude era, the WWF would be bankrupt. If Bischoff was still in charge of WCW then he would probably still create NWO with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, and probably Savage as the leader. I think even without Hogan, the NWO would have been created and the big money contracts would go out to Nash, Hall, and other former WWF talent like Luger and Savage.

I think we would still see Austin, Foley, and the other talent be misused since the older talent had so much creative control. I believe it was Bischoff who fired Austin and Foley to begin with. Even without Hogan in WCW, I'm sure the same events would have unfolded. Other people were just as responsible with holding younger talent back as Hogan was.

 

[MrHashasheen]

I say bullshit right back at you. How were they already a big challenge to the WWE? They were a distant second compared to WWE. You may have liked the WCW and that's fine, no one's arguing with you, just like lots of people today like the TNA product, but just because a select few like the product doesn't necessarily mean they'll challenge for the number one position.

Look at TNA today. Lots of talent. Tons of potential. Rabid and loyal fans (unfortunately not many though). And barely cracking 1.0 in the ratings. This is not a TNA bash, it's just stating facts. Same would be the case with WCW in my opinion. They had their Stunning Steve Austin, and Giant, and Sting, and Jericho, and many others, but they would never have moved up the ratings like they did without Hogan.

You can't compare WCW before the Monday Night Wars with TNA right now. And I can't argue back because I don't have the ratings, or the name of the WWF main show before Raw and Nitro went head to head, but I will go look for them. I'll ask you to do the same, and if we find them, we can compare ratings and see who's positions stands on better ground.

Back then, I was one of the guys who was swayed away from WWF and began watching WCW. Why? Because of the nWo and the impact this was having on the wrestling business of the time. A combination of WWF guys, lead by Hogan, as well as some homegrown WCW guys, turning the wrestling world on its ear. nWO enticed me away, so by default, Hogan enticed me away. Not Benoit. Not Flair. Not Guerrero. I think I was likely a pretty typical young fan at the time and I think lots of guys like me were drawn away by the Hogan-lead nWo, but would not have been drawn away by the other guys.

Were all the wrestling fans either WWF or WCW? I rather doubt it, because that doesn't explain the leap in ratings for both. There were plenty of new fans who could have gotten into the Horseman, Sting, Luger, Benoit, Vader, Austin and so on in fresh feuds. Just like HHH, HBK, Bret Hart, Austin and others got over in the WWF without Hogan there to promote the company.

 

[jpickens]

If Hogan had opted not to go to WCW for starters his body wouldn't be so banged up if he decided to retire and maybe wrestle every so often. The main question should be what if Eric Bichoff was placed on a short leash or never given the power that he had chances are that SCSA would've evolved in WCW and Cactus Jack would have won the WCW worlds championship. As for WCW lasting past spring of 2001 what if Vince Russo and Ed Ferarra were never hired.