WrestleZone Debater's League: Alternates' Debate Battle Royal

[Mr. TM]

List of Alternates

Blue Chipper
Minor League Brian
Moon Knight
Lariat
Tenta
The Sign Guy
Lee
Christian Battlez
Falkon
Mr Baller
Jenovas Witness
Becker
Gelgarin
Mantaur Rodeo Clown
Harthan​

Topic: What was the greatest faction ever at their height?

List of Factions to choose from. Only choose one of these factions. You can post here now, and pick your faction. Then when you have time, edit that post and replace it with your argument. Only one poster per faction. Remember, you only have 24 hours to get your post in.

Factions:
Degeneration X
Four Horsemen
nWo
Dangerous Alliance
Evolution
The New Hart Foundation
The Nation of Domination
The Hennan Family
The Flock
Team Canada (TNA)
The Corporation
Filthy Animals
Radicalz
Main Event Mafia
Fabulous Freebirds
​

 

[Gelgarin]

Heenan Family.

Prologue

Over the past two decades stables have become an increasingly important part of the professional wrestling scene. At one time or another the WWE, WCW and TNA have all built their entire program around the idea of a stable war. Faction wars come in many forms, from the show dominating NWO or ECWCW Invasion angle to the smaller bodies who dominate promotions such as Dragon’s Gate and spend most of their time feuding with similar small bodies.

So before we start our magical journey to uncover the most important stable on our little list, it would likely be a beneficial exercise to try and uncover precisely where professional wrestling’s obsession with stables comes from. If you ask a fan of this generation then you’ll most likely be told that the trend towards factions is nothing but a string of attempts to make the New World Order lighting strike twice. The NWO angle is credited with WCW’s success (for some reason the massive fiscal expenditure is frequently glossed over by wrestling fans) and your typical fan who likes to deny that wrestling existed before 1980 will try to paint that massive clusterfuck as being in some way “fresh” or even “revolutionary”.

Obviously nothing could be further from the truth. Stables did not being with the NWO. The idea of feuding factions of wrestlers dates back half a century before the formation of the WCW. If you wind the clock back to 1920 the professional wrestling scene was dominated by the very legitimate faction war between Ed “Strangler” Lewis’s Goldust Trio and talent aligned to Joe Stecher. After Lewis took the World Championship from Stecher the two rivals formed separate collections of talent and essentially feuded for the next eight years. I won’t bore you with any more detail than that because The Gold-Dust Trio wasn’t on the list, but the point I am attempting to make is that stable wars did not begin twenty years ago, and just because a group existed in recent memory does not make it revolutionary.

So with the concept of innovation removed from the equation, how are we to truly gauge the ‘greatness’ of a faction. Legacy frequently proved to be an unsuccessful barometer for quality on account of the inherent reluctance within the human mind to acknowledge the quality of things that happened before they were born. Impact on the business seems promising, but the radically changing nature of the business throws that idea into doubt. Overall, what this decision comes down to is a simple objective analysis of the successes experienced by each faction, and when you line the legitimate accomplishments up against one another, one faction stands out as head, shoulders and a fair stretch of torso above the rest. I am of course referring to the Heenan Family.

Why the Heenan Family was the greatest faction of all time

You’ll notice that I am now using the word ‘faction’ instead of ‘stable’. Bobby Heenan famously detested to word ‘stable’, associating it with broken down old horses. Whilst there might be a grain of truth in that when referring to portions of the Main Event Mafia, Heenen’s group was anything but, managing to become a haven for some of the greatest young talents in the business, in spite of existing rather longer than most pro wresters do.

Let us stop for a moment and put that in perspective. The NWO (in its various forms) ran from 1996-2000, and by the close every man alive was sick to death of it. DX existed for only half that time, and since forth every reunion has had legions of older fans taking blunt objects to their wives and girlfriends in an attempt to take the pain away.
In contrast, the Heenan family lasted for over twenty years and across three promotions. The Heenan Family dominated the AWA, achieving four world championships and a plethora of other gold whilst remaining the most over group of heels in the promotion. The Heenan Family dominated Georgia Championship Wrestling, achieving five world championships and a plethora of other gold whilst remaining the most over group of heels in the promotion. In terms of longevity, Heenan’s group cannot be matched by any other.

“But Gelgarin” cries the phantom naysayer; “the question specifically talks about the faction at their height; surely longevity is immaterial”.

“Shut the fuck up cuntbag!” eloquently replies Gelgarin, “The Heenan Family held a dominant position on the show everywhere they went, and it is a perfectly realistic claim to make that the group was at its height for its entire existence”. (I’m going to drop the dialogue now because it’s a bit silly).

However; on the off chance that this isn’t good enough for you, let me present you with a brief period from that section of the Family’s existence that I have thus far overlooked. The WWF run. Much of the WWF run was spend giving Hulk Hogan one of his most successful feuds of all time, but once that angle ran its course that Family moved on the greater things. Over the course of a sixteen month period the Heenan Family achieved the following.

1) Arn and Tully (arguably the greatest tag team of all time) won tag gold.
2) Andre and Haku (one of the most dominant tag teams of all time) won tag gold.
3) Mr Perfect (another of the greatest talents of all time, see how good this faction was?) won Intercontinental gold… twice.
4) Rick Rude won Intercontinental gold off of the Ultimate Warrior. The Ultimate Fucking Warrior… at Wrestlemania. That’s how big a deal this faction was.

So in the space of a year and a half Bobby Heenan guided some of the greatest talent of all time to five major world championships. And this was in the pre Russo era when titles generally stayed stated for one hundred days at a time. You don’t need me telling you how major that is.

Other world class members of the Heenan Family include;
Nick Borckwinkle
Ray Stevens
Blackjack Mulligan
Ernie Ladd
Big John Stud
Paul Ornderof
Harley Race

Know what those names have in common? They’re all hall of famers. Add Rude, Henning and Andre to the mix and you get a grand total of TEN hall of famers in the faction. What other group can claim that? You know which group can’t? The Heenan Family. You know why? Because they actually had ELEVEN hall of fame members, and I’ve been saving the best for last.

Bobby Heenan

I shouldn’t have to talk any further. Heenan is the best manager in the history of professional wrestling bar none. Nobody even comes close to his level. Heenan didn’t wrestle, he didn’t have much of a look, he was just a guy, and he was a better heel than every single one of his contemporaries. The man could talk as well as anybody, and when it came to generating heat, there are few names in the entirety of history who have done it better. To go back to earlier on, I mentioned how the Heenan Family was able to replace 90% of its members on two separate occasions without losing its status. Heenan was the reason. A faction that dominated three promotions over twenty years, that fought against the likes of Hogan and Warrior, that has what has to be considered as the greatest roster of talent in stable history, was carried by a mouthpiece manager. That is how good Bobby Heenan was at his job.

So, we’re getting to that time in the evening where I’m expected to sum up. I outlined earlier on that given the changing nature of the business it’s quite hard to compare one stable to another. There are lots of angles you can approach the question from. Talent, Championships, Legacy, Longevity and many others. It might be fair to say that DX will have a greater legacy than Heenan’s Family (although only due to politics). The NWO might have been more bloated with top names (although it certainly can't claim to have had more talent behind it it). The Four Horsemen might be able to give Heenan a run for his money in the longevity market (well not really, they lasted less than half the time Heenan’s Family did) and some group somewhere probably has more gold to its name (but then there is far more gold to win).

However; when you stop looking at these factors is isolation and take an objective, whole picture look at what each of the factions did, there is simply no argument that Bobby Heenan’s family accomplished far more than any faction since 1920 when those heroic pioneers of the Gold-Dust Trio started it all.

Vote Gelgarin.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The Four Horsemen​

To be honest, this is a slam dunk in my view. We talk about these other factions such as the NWO, DX, MEM, and Evolution, but NONE of those factions would exist without the Four Horsemen.

Background of the Four Horsemen

This stable first started with Arn and Ole Anderson, better known as the Minnesota Wrecking Crew. They were a dominant tag team that beat up people on a weekly basis. They even won the NWA Tag Team Titles during this period. The one constant with these guys was their hatred for Dusty Rhodes, which started with Ole turning on Rhodes way back in 1980. It still goes down as one of the biggest swerves in pro wrestling history. The first signs of this stable being formed was when, big surprise, Ole turns on someone. This time, it was Thunderbolt Patterson. Thunderbolt wrestled Arn on a TV taping for TBS, and eventually, Ole was tired of Thunderbolt and then came the turn, when Arn and Ole both jumped him. This was the start of the Minnesota Wrecking Crew.

Our Cousin Flair

Eventually, the MWC would start an alliance with Ric Flair. The story was Flair was from Minnesota and relocated to Charlotte, which made Flair a 'cousin' of the Andersons. It also helped that during this period, Flair was feuding with Dusty Rhodes for the World Heavyweight Title and, well, The Andersons HATE Dusty Rhodes. Eventually, the Andersons and Flair beat up on Dusty quite a bit. This would be a constant for years to come. Working as a cohesive unit with none of the three guys too far away from each other. Flair and Dusty would have an epic rivalry, but it was spiced up with the addition of Arn and Ole Anderson.

Tully Blanchard Enterprises w/ JJ Dillon

Once again, Rhodes plays a huge role in this addition. Despite the best efforts of Arn and Ole and Ric, Dusty was still doing his thang by winning belts and getting one up on 3/4 of the Horsemen, THEN Tully Blanchard came along. See, Ole took some time off during the era of 1986, and in that time, the National Heavyweight Champion/United States Champion and his manager started a feud with Rhodes. His name was Tully Blanchard and his manager was JJ Dillon. What united the group was in a match with Rhodes, Tully was getting beat and about to lose his belt. This is where Flair and Arn came in. They jumped Rhodes, along with Tully, but Dusty was fighting them off. Until a returning Ole Anderson came in and undercut Dusty's leg. The group injured his leg severely, but didn't break it thanks to Magnum TA and others running in to save him. During a post match interview, Arn uttered the most famous statement in wrestling history, when he pointed to himself, Ole, Tully, and Flair and compared them to the 'Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse'. The name stuck, and the rest is history.

The Horsemen = Success

Everyone involved with the Horsemen during the years got a rub they'd never have in their wrestling careers. Lex Luger got his START as a Horsemen, and became a solid wrestler in his own right. Barry Windham was a second generation star who helped the faction become as powerful as any in wrestling history. Many say that Windham, Flair, Arn, and Tully's version was the best out of the different sets of factions.

And what made the faction work so well was that these guys were legit friends outside of wrestling. They partied, had group sex, and spent money like it was their last day on earth. They went from town to town, tore it up, wrestled, left, went to another town, tore it up. Apply, rinse, repeat. The Horsemen done this for the better part of FOUR years.

In the 90's Jim Herd wouldn't have any of the Horsemen left over simply because he thought the faction was getting old with fans. Jim Herd managed a Pizza Hut and knew shit about wrestling. Eventually, the faction returned, adding STING to the fold along with Ole, Arn, and Ric. But Sting committed the cardinal sin of taking a title shot with Flair and well, we know what happened to Sting. Then they add Sid Vicious. Big mistake. He stabbed Arn and that just simply didn't work out. Even though Sid stabbed a Horsemen, he was much better than Paul Roma. Seriously. This is when the stable became stale and eventually was disbanded with Ric and Arn always being together.

During the Nitro years, they tried the faction again, but with a former football player, a stale technical wrestler, and a Canadian. It didn't work. And shouldn't have.

Even in all their failed attempts at bringing the faction back, NO ONE can dispute their impact on the wrestling world. Without them, you would have no NWO, DX, Evolution, or Main Event Mafia. And think about this, HALF of those factions (Evolution and MEM) have former Horsemen as their members. Think about that.

So it's not really a debate. It's like saying Lebron James is better than Michael Jordan. Sure, he might share some of his skills, but Jordan did it first, and BETTER than him.

So that's why the Four Horsemen is the greatest faction in wrestling history.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

For my part in the Battle royal, I thought that I would do something a little different. It would be easy to choose a faction like the NWO and simply say, “well this is the greatest faction of all time because they dominated wrestling for the mid nineties”. That is a fair argument and it may be hard to disagree. But debating isn’t always about getting the side you want, so I thought to myself, why don’t I just pick one at random? So that’s what I did, I picked one at complete random and will defend it to the death, thusly, I will have proven I have what it takes to be an alternate in the debaters league.

One I had assigned them all numbers, I got out a calculator to generate a random number and I got number 5, Evolution.

So here is why Evolution was the greatest faction ever at their height.

Ingredients: The Past

Ric Flair. The Nature Boy. The mentor to the group and the manager. Some may say the greatest pro wrestler of all time. The idea behind Evolution would be to assemble all the greats in wrestling and provide a look at the past, present and future. Ric Flair perfectly represented what Evolution needed at the time, a 16 time world champion in their group who could raise up Orton and Batista to his level, passing on his expertise. This was reason why they were so good, in that the faction was based upon learning, as well as unity. Looking at the basis of a stable, at the forefront of its goals should be to create the next superstars of the business. The NWO I feel, failed to do this. Degeneration-X I feel, failed to do this. Unless you’re a cute Kip fan.

The Present

Triple H. The Cerebral Assassin. He was the centrepiece of which the faction was built, and the mastermind behind the scenes of actually putting it together and scouting Orton and Batista. His run as champion on RAW throughout 2003 can generally be considered Evolutions prime, and the climax of this would have been when he regained the title from Goldberg at Armageddon 2003, thus having every single member of the stable holding a championship. They held every championship possible on their brand and held them for 2 months before the tag titles were lost. During this period they were nigh on undefeatable. Few factions could have claimed that at their height.

The Future

Randy Orton. The Legend Killer. Besides holding the Intercontinental Championship for 210 days during this period, he also led Evolution to a win over the Rock’n’sock connection at Wrestlemania. He was the real jewel in Evolution, being groomed for the future by the best in the business. And what is Orton doing today? Holding the WWE Championship. This was faction of only 4 members, and they all held the WWE Championship and the WWE Championship at one point. There was no fat that needed to be trimmed like in the later days of the NWO. They weren’t all older wrestlers clinging to titles like the MEM. And Randy Orton personified this, with the exclamation point being the success he has today,

The Enforcer

Batista. The Animal. Every great faction has an enforcer. Arn Anderson. Mark Henry. Chyna. However you look at it, this was the guy that plowed through everyone. But a testament to the greatness of Evolution is how this simple enforcer guy, a power wrestler with no third generation breeding, could become a multi-world champion. The grooming and training he received, as well as the massive rub from evolution launched his career from being “Leviathan” who crawled out of the Ohio river, to one of the biggest superstars today. Lariat mentioned that Luger got his start in the Horsemen. Batista is a big muscle-bound wrestler as well. Which one became the bigger superstar? Some may say Lex, some may say Dave, but for my money, Batista really outperformed any expectations someone could have.

Evolution. They ran RAW throughout 2003 and early 2004. Even with Orton “flying the nest” and being given his singles run, they continued as a threesome until Wrestlemania 21, where Batista was given his singles run. Two huge superstars came out of that stable, and alongside their dominance, their legacy is what truly sets them apart. They weren’t all established stars like the NWO or the MEM. But in the faction they became more than what we thought they were. That is why at their height, Evolution was the greats stable ever.

As a bit of a treat, here's the promo that started it.

[youtube]sEZCzZh8eSM[/youtube]

Tommy Dreamers come a long way

For Bribing TMexico

 

[Lee]

The New Hart Foundation

So seeing as RTC wern't on this list there was no way I could pass up the opportunity to defend the New Hart Foundation, who I will refer to as simply the hart foundation all through the rest of this post.

Now there's one thing I am assuming as I go on is that by 'the new hart foundation' TM means the third incarnation of the group and not the second incarnation.

I mean come on, look at them, they did work well as a tag team, but this I don't think is who the post is about.

The Canada thing

So lets take a look at the Hart Foundation, I won't go into the history of the group too much apart from the fact it was founded not long after Mania 13 when Bret and Austin did a rare heel/face switcheroo. The members were as follows; Bret, Owen, Jim Neidhart, Brian Pillman and the British Bulldog.

It was founded on the principles that blood is thicker than water, and essentially became more than family...it became a group defending the ideals of Canada and the United Kingdom.

How does that come into play? Well it's something I've always been an advocator of, that there should be 'international' stars in WWE, not just national stars. Here you had a really weird dynamic, you had a group that were hated in the USA essentially heels but worldwide they were loved.

Look at Canadian stampede, they're the heel team in this match and come out to pops so loud you can't even hear the music! That's pretty damn something.

[youtube]diF-xZ6I72Y[/youtube]

Stable dynamics

It was a good dynamic for a stable, essentially you had your major player in Bret, your tag team in Owen and Bulldog, you had your powerhouse in Anvil and then you had Pillman who was in a stop gap in between his feud with Austin and Goldust.

They also held every championship going at the time (WWF, European, IC, Tag) whilst not actually holding them at the same time, it was still achieved in their short tenure together as a team.

Blood is thicker than water

With Bret and Owen as brothers, Bulldog and Neidhart as in laws and having Pillman as the non family member of the group, being adopted as a member though as he trained in the dungeon and thus was well known to the Harts. This brought a rather unique chemistry where everything they did together just worked.

Feuds

Aside from the feud that cemented Austins overallness as being one of the biggest stars ever in WWE history, the foundation had some other feuds in its time.

It also had the feud with HBK starting with Bulldog and winning the European title from him leading up to the most controversial point in wrestling history.

Goldust and Shamrock were the minor feuds of the time, and this was at a point when goldust was a mighty damn fine character and Shamrock was grounding his pro wrestling personoa.

The end

The Hart foundation ended when Pillman died and the screwjob happened. Anvil and Bulldog jumped ship whilst Owen stayed. This was notable that it ended in this way because 99% of other stables end when they feud with each other. The foundation really proved that blood is thicker than water.

The foundation were great because they had the massive heel heat in the USA, they cause the international jump of WWF once again in the UK and Canada, it pushed Austin to that mega level, they were pretty dominent and they still have a legacy today in WWE, with the Hart Dynasty being formed.

I stress once again, if Austin didn't feud with the foundation would he have gotten over so much?!