WWE Region, Third Round: Submission match: (4) Dusty Rhodes vs. (12) Brock Lesnar

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the WWE Region. It is a Submission match, held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York.

Rules: The match is anything goes and can only be won by submission in the ring.

#4. Dusty Rhodes

Vs.

#12. Brock Lesnar

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Assume the wrestlers are at full strength after their first two matches.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[The Brain]

Terrible draw for Rhodes. It would have been hard enough for him to advance over Lesnar, but a submission match? No chance. I don't recall Rhodes using many submission holds over the years and I can't picture him doing anything to make Lesnar submit. On the other hand Lesnar is an experienced submission wrestler and there's no shame in tapping out to him even for a baby face hero like Dusty Rhodes.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

Can someone tell me if Dusty has ever won a match via submission? If yes, was that wrestler as tough and muscled up as Brock? I don't think so. Not only that, but the match stipulation stating that anything goes furthers favors Brock much more. If he could beat the living shit out of Cena, the top dog, and break the arm of a top official and his buddy with no remorse then he surely can do that to a mid-carder Dusty Rhodes. Just remember to vote for the Brock "The 1 in 21" Lesnar!

 

[Catacomb]

Can someone tell me if Dusty has ever won a match via submission? If yes, was that wrestler as tough and muscled up as Brock? I don't think so. Not only that, but the match stipulation stating that anything goes furthers favors Brock much more. If he could beat the living shit out of Cena, the top dog, and break the arm of a top official and his buddy with no remorse then he surely can do that to a mid-carder Dusty Rhodes. Just remember to vote for the Brock "The 1 in 21" Lesnar!

apparently you dont know about dusty, the man was a main eventer everywhere, was more popular than andre the giant and wouldve beat the hell out of lesnar in his prime. lesnar wouldnt handle a kick to the stomache, no way hed take the beating that dusty would dish out. rhodes via figure 4

 

[Awesome_Miz]

apparently you dont know about dusty, the man was a main eventer everywhere, was more popular than andre the giant and wouldve beat the hell out of lesnar in his prime. lesnar wouldnt handle a kick to the stomache, no way hed take the beating that dusty would dish out. rhodes via figure 4

1) Name how many Wrestlemanias has Dusty main evented or at least co-main evented.

2) You truly believe Dusty can beat the ass of a guy who went from professional wrestling to sports entertainment to MMAing back to sports entertainment? Ummmm..... good luck with that belief.

And C) Figure Four Leg Lock? You know we are talking about Dusty and not Ric "Best Wrestler" Flair, right? I don't think so cause you clearly don't know the difference between the two. Let me explain it in the simplest form I can. Ric knows how to utilize Figure Four Leg Lock, Dusty not so much.

So, with that Brock still wins and if you don't think so then go around the street and find Mark Calaway and ask him how ass kicking Brock was back at Mania.

 

[Bernkastel]

I don't understand the Lesnar hype just because he broke a kayfabe streak. If doing so was important then Nash would have obliterated Kiniski last round and would be a shoe in to beat Taker. But it doesn't work that way. Lesnar is basically riding a big wave of untapped potential and it ends here with Dusty Rhodes. Just like Bryan's wave couldn't crest Ultimate Warrior.

Dusty was a much bigger star, has a far greater legacy, has had a much more profound impact on the business as a whole. And look at his record...

48 wins/30 losses against Ric Flair
62 wins/5 losses against Randy Savage
26 wins/12 losses against Billy Graham
8 wins/12 losses against Harley Race
5 wins/12 losses against Antonio Inoki
6 wins/5 losses against Dory Funk Jr...

The man can get the job done against the top names. Lesnar is not what I would call a top name yet. He's more of an upper mid card novelty. He's 1 and 1 with HHH, and 0 against Cena. He's the type of guy that would be built up to be taken down by a guy like Rhodes.

And the stip shouldn't matter. Faces overcome crazy odds all the time. If Cena can defeat Edge in a ladder match, if Hogan can slam Andre the Giant, if Austin can get the better of the man that signs his paychecks, then Dusty Rhodes would find a way to slay the beast.

Voting Rhodes.

You truly believe Dusty can beat the ass of a guy who went from professional wrestling to sports entertainment to MMAing back to sports entertainment? Ummmm..... good luck with that belief.

Flair apparently trumps technique in this shindig; otherwise Thesz and Santo would be blowing out Savage and Sting. But they're not because Savage and Sting were both great showman just like Rhodes. So why should Lesnar get a free pass? Especially when he's basically coasting on hype right now.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Brock in a walk, here. Brock's amateur wrestling background here will help him immensely. I assume the WM XIII rule applies here, and that Beock can win by simply making Dusty pass out? Because Brock is strong enough, and his arms are long enough to pull off the bear hug here (the one that ko'd Hogan, and led to Brock smearing the blood of HULKAMANIA across his chest). Brock is also strong enough to pull off the Brock Lock here, though I doubt he'd use it. The Kimura also seems more than possible. Dusty is in real trouble here.

 

[Bernkastel]

Brock in a walk, here. Brock's amateur wrestling background here will help him immensely.

I'm sure it would, but it doesn't give him a free pass.

I assume the WM XIII rule applies here, and that Beock can win by simply making Dusty pass out? Because Brock is strong enough, and his arms are long enough to pull off the bear hug here (the one that ko'd Hogan, and led to Brock smearing the blood of HULKAMANIA across his chest).

A past prime Hogan BTW. LOL at Brock being able to do that to a prime Hogan.

Brock is also strong enough to pull off the Brock Lock here, though I doubt he'd use it. The Kimura also seems more than possible. Dusty is in real trouble here.

Not really. Brock is nothing more than a big, stiff monster coasting off hype. He's basically a non obese Vader. Rhodes would find a way to take him down.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

Flair apparently trumps technique in this shindig; otherwise Thesz and Santo would be blowing out Savage and Sting. But they're not because Savage and Sting were both great showman just like Rhodes. So why should Lesnar get a free pass? Especially when he's basically coasting on hype right now.

I never said this would be a free pass. Hell, I know that Dusty can take an ass whooping better than most or all of us, especially coming from his famous Dog Collar match if I remember correctly. I've seen that quite a few times, but that still won't help him. Brock is a guy whom has shown us his strength feat with the likes of Rock, Hogan, and Cena. Having beaten all 3 of them and made them come out in a bloody fashion. So, that hints towards the fact that Brock will do the same once more.

 

[Nate DaMac]

48 wins/30 losses against Ric Flair
62 wins/5 losses against Randy Savage
26 wins/12 losses against Billy Graham
8 wins/12 losses against Harley Race
5 wins/12 losses against Antonio Inoki
6 wins/5 losses against Dory Funk Jr...

I'd put Lesnar over any of these guys and so would any promoter worth a shit. What promoter wouldn't have strapped rockets to Brock's ass given the opportunity? Just look at what Vince did when he got a hold of him. He put him over a Hulk Hogan (who had just been the Undisputed champ a few months prior) clean with a fucking Bearhug. He was the world champion in less than 6 months in the biggest national wrestling company in the world. Would have it have even taken that long had any of the NWA promoters in the 80's gotten a hold of someone like Lesnar?

I don't really give a shit who the bigger draw was, no one worth a shit would book Dusty over Brock.

Oh yeah.

He's 1 and 1 with HHH

He's 2-1 with Triple H.

 

[HBsam31]

Brock is going to win this one. I am pretty sure Rhodes would not be able to amke a man like Lesner submit. As a matter of fact I don't think there is much Dusty could throw at Brock that he wouldn't have an answer for. Lesner to the next round.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'd put Lesnar over any of these guys and so would any promoter worth a shit. What promoter wouldn't have strapped rockets to Brock's ass given the opportunity? Just look at what Vince did when he got a hold of him. He put him over a Hulk Hogan (who had just been the Undisputed champ a few months prior) clean with a fucking Bearhug. He was the world champion in less than 6 months in the biggest national wrestling company in the world.

And he bombed as a draw and later left the company. Well done Vince. Brilliant move.

Would have it have even taken that long had any of the NWA promoters in the 80's gotten a hold of someone like Lesnar?

Probably not long. And he still wouldn't have drawn jack. They had big stiff workers like Stan Hansen come into promotions like AWA and fuck shit up, and technical wizards like Curt Hennig, and still neither never really made that big of an impact.

I don't really give a shit who the bigger draw was, no one worth a shit would book Dusty over Brock.

We aren't booking feuds here. It's a tournament where the bigger and better legend goes forward. And that's Dusty Rhodes. Brock is all hype at this point. Nothing more.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Terrible draw for Rhodes. It would have been hard enough for him to advance over Lesnar, but a submission match? No chance. I don't recall Rhodes using many submission holds over the years and I can't picture him doing anything to make Lesnar submit. On the other hand Lesnar is an experienced submission wrestler and there's no shame in tapping out to him even for a baby face hero like Dusty Rhodes.

The Weaver lock/Sleeper hold. He won quite a few matches with it. Also he used the Figure Four sparingly, but most of the time, he used a modified sleeper hold.

Can someone tell me if Dusty has ever won a match via submission? If yes, was that wrestler as tough and muscled up as Brock? I don't think so. Not only that, but the match stipulation stating that anything goes furthers favors Brock much more. If he could beat the living shit out of Cena, the top dog, and break the arm of a top official and his buddy with no remorse then he surely can do that to a mid-carder Dusty Rhodes. Just remember to vote for the Brock "The 1 in 21" Lesnar!

So he ends the streak and now he's the greatest wrestler of all times? NO. Just no. Dusty Rhodes beat many muscle bound guys by being tougher and outlasting his opponent.

The only thing Lesnar has going for him is his MMA background. And his submissions didn't exactly win his matches. They merely injured people. Brock won most of his bouts with the F-5. And Rhodes doesn't submit either. He'd pass out before submitting.

Brock is going to win this one. I am pretty sure Rhodes would not be able to amke a man like Lesner submit. As a matter of fact I don't think there is much Dusty could throw at Brock that he wouldn't have an answer for. Lesner to the next round.

There's quite a few elbows, and a sleeper hold he could throw at him.

Vote Dusty. In public if you wheel!

 

[GI Cake]

Awesome_Miz just called Dusty Rhodes a mid-carder, really that's the only thing you need to solidify your vote for Dusty. Think about it, the sooner Brock gets eliminated from the tournament, the fast we can get Awesome_Miz to leave the forums.

Vote Dusty.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

People love to talk about Lesnar's UFC career. Okay, lets talk about that for a minute. Here is his first ever UFC fight.

[YOUTUBE]uufclkwGDhI[/YOUTUBE]

Sure looks like he is tapping out. I mean I could be wrong, what do I know? I'm not a 17 year old who has a poor grasp of the English language and bases my entire argument off one number, but to me it looks like Brock is tapping like a bitch.

Vote Dusty Rhodes baby.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

And Rhodes doesn't submit either. He'd pass out before submitting.

I am curious to see if that counts. We've seen it end a high profile submission match before (Hart v Austin). Because frankly, it's not completely out of the realm of possibility. I'm also not sure how effective the sleeper will be on Brock, due to how thick his body is (not flabby, but stone) and his ****** strength could help him power out of it. He got out of Hell's Gate twice in the same match, which is far more difficult to get out of than a sleeper. Brock uses a variety of holds, all of which could make Dusty either pass out or give.

What a great visual Brock "breaking" Dusty's arm with the Kimura, and Dusty still tries to hang on until his body just gives out on him. Or tapping after it breaks, whichever.

I went too far saying Brock in a walk. This match would be competitive as hell, but I feel Brock would pull it out.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Dusty Rhodes has his work cut out for him in this match, I can't see a way past Lesnar for The Dream in this one.

Utilising his amateur skills, his MMA skills, and submission holds like the Kimura (which took out HHH and HBK), the Brock Lock, the Bearhug (which took out Hulk Hogan), I see Lesnar getting the win here.

Dusty is tough bastard though, and he'd put up a good fight but it's a terrible draw for him. I don't think he'd be able to topple Lesnar.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

Has Dusty Rhodes ever used a submission move to win a match? That is what this has to come down to. People saying "the stip doesn't matter" is bollocks. If this were an actual match would Dusty Rhodes have a logical way to win? The answer is flat out no. Brock Lesnar has won matches with submission holds. He made Benoit pass out to the Brock Lock in 2003. He had Triple H tapping like Mr. Bo-jangles in 2012. As noted by Nate, he made Hulk Hogan pass out to a fucking bearhug in 2002. Not the 70's or 80's but 2002 where old school finishers (like the Bionic Elbow for example) look daft and hokey. Dusty might not tap, but he doesn't need to, passing out does the work for Brock.

Oh and Awesome_Miz does not represent the intelligent person's point of view on this discussion.

 

[Con T.]

Utilising his amateur skills.

Brock in a walk, here. Brock's amateur wrestling background.

... You both realize that amateur wrestling has jack shit to with submissions, right? Like, you can't tap out in any of the amateur wrestling styles. Folk style, free style, greco roman... None of them require tapping out your opponent.

Plus, one of Brock's major weaknesses in MMA (aside from not having much of a standing game, and interestingly enough, his inability to take a punch) was his fairly nubile submission game. You can go ahead and use UFC in your point, but you're actually pointing to the weaknesses in UFC career by doing so.

I'm still not swayed one way or another. Part of me wants to vote Dusty, because Awesome Miz is a knob. Watch, Brock has a pattern of quitting.

Brock quit WWE.
Brock quit football (actually, he wasn't good enough for football).
Brock quit UFC (though he was eventually going to get figured out anyway)
Brock quit vodka and pain pills (seriously, Brock? Big man drinks vodka?)

See a pattern of behavior?

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

I wouldn't doubt that Lesnar COULD win this match, but no way would I discount Rhodes, especially in his prime, which to me was late 70s, early 80s. Rhodes at that point captured two world titles from Harley Race (also in his prime), and was fighting guys like Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Ole Anderson, Terry Funk, etc. The thing was that Rhodes was a 280 dude who moved a helluva lot quicker than you'd expect, and he was one of the BEST brawlers of his time.

On that score alone, I could see Rhodes fighting and holding his own against virtually any one.

Bottom line: 70s Rhodes versus Lesnar puts butts in seats and would probably be a bloody ass match and I could see either guy winning that one.

 

[Milkyway!]

Dusty Rhodes is an average man doing above average things.

Brock Lesnar? Well He's a man's man's man.

Brock would bear hug Dusty Rhodes until he pooped a brown polka dot in his undies and passed out.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Brock Lesnar should go over here. He would either make Dusty Rhodes tap out or pass out, like he has done to Chris Benoit and Hulk Hogan. Brock Lesnar also made Kurt Angle tap out to his own Ankle Lock, which just shows how dominant he really is. Brock Lesnar is known for weakening his opponent prior to his bouts so he can have the upper hand , like he did with the Big Show at Royal Rumble 2014 and to Kurt Angle before the 60 minute Iron-Man match, where intentionally got disqualified, gave up a fall to dish out more pain to Angle.

Since Dusty Rhodes is a larger athlete than most, Brock would probably apply a move that would be more painful to a larger wrestler, like the bearhug or the arm-triangle choke he used to make Shane Carwin tap.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

... You both realize that amateur wrestling has jack shit to with submissions, right? Like, you can't tap out in any of the amateur wrestling styles. Folk style, free style, greco roman... None of them require tapping out your opponent.

Plus, one of Brock's major weaknesses in MMA (aside from not having much of a standing game, and interestingly enough, his inability to take a punch) was his fairly nubile submission game. You can go ahead and use UFC in your point, but you're actually pointing to the weaknesses in UFC career by doing so.

I'm still not swayed one way or another. Part of me wants to vote Dusty, because Awesome Miz is a knob. Watch, Brock has a pattern of quitting.

Brock quit WWE.
Brock quit football (actually, he wasn't good enough for football).
Brock quit UFC (though he was eventually going to get figured out anyway)
Brock quit vodka and pain pills (seriously, Brock? Big man drinks vodka?)

See a pattern of behavior?

He unified Carwins title with his by making him tap. Good enough for me to believe he could make Dusty tap in a fake wrestling match.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I probably will put Lesner over Rhodes here... but I just have to chime in.

THIS has to be one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on this forum. That's actually saying a lot too.

1) Name how many Wrestlemanias has Dusty main evented or at least co-main evented.

How many WWF Wrestlemania's did an NWA wrestler/booker who wrestled the majority of his career before Wrestlemania even existed? Is this a serious question?

2) You truly believe Dusty can beat the ass of a guy who went from professional wrestling to sports entertainment to MMAing back to sports entertainment? Ummmm..... good luck with that belief.

Yes. I can think of quite a few people who would buy it too.

Something tells me you don't have the first clue how big Rhodes was in his prime.

And C) Figure Four Leg Lock? You know we are talking about Dusty and not Ric "Best Wrestler" Flair, right? I don't think so cause you clearly don't know the difference between the two. Let me explain it in the simplest form I can. Ric knows how to utilize Figure Four Leg Lock, Dusty not so much.

So, with that Brock still wins and if you don't think so then go around the street and find Mark Calaway and ask him how ass kicking Brock was back at Mania.

Like I said. I probably will go Brock over Dusty... but seriously kid. Quit being such a damn mark.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Brock has made big names submit... but has been submitted himself. Angle has had him tapping three times, Benoit once and (as WWe has always played up UFC experience) his UFC submission to Mir must also exist in kayfabe.

On the other side we have Dusty who wasn't renowned for being a submission guy... but was renowned for not submitting himself.

What about Heyman, can he assist Lesnar to a tainted win over Rhodes... Dusty defeated by a Dusty finish in a tournament to crown the best of the best...

I love Dusty and I think his legacy is still greater than defeating the streak (because, let's be honest, even for the Deadman - actually defeating Lesnar in the obvious deteriorated physical state he has reached was REALLY stretching suspension of disbelief despite our obvious complacency he would). All round better career, all round better performer - the Dream puts the Beast to sleep.