TNA Region, Fourth Round, 60 Minute Iron Man: (1) John Cena vs. (4) Bruno Sammartino

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the TNA Region. It is a 60 Minute Iron Man match, held at the Amway Center in Orlando, Florida. One week has passed since the third round, so some injuries or fatigue may be a factor.

Rules: The match will last 60 minutes and the man with the most falls win. A fall is earned by pinfall, submission, countout or disqualification.

#1. John Cena

Vs.

#4. Bruno Sammartino

​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Mac Attack]

I'll be honest I'd give it to Bruno here. Whilst John Cena has gone that long before (Michaels) Bruno's generation did these types of matches in and out. Both guys are extremely fit, but if we're going with experience in long matches I'd say Bruno. Plus nobody really has any obvious advantage over the other so I'm voting due to experience.

 

[Jaffa]

Cena has been in a 60 minute ironman with Orton which was anything goes so he can go the time difference. Bruno was clearly able to go the distance so I don't think either one would run out. I'm torn though because both win matches a lot and both would win matches like this however seeing as this can't be a draw I am unsure who to vote for.

Someone convince me please either way.

 

[Bernkastel]

All of my feels. All of it. What a fantastic match up. 2 men that embody what it means to be a "good guy." Both are equally matched when it comes to the stipulation: Cena has worked Iron man matches, and Bruno regularly worked 60 minute draws. Bruno also has the strength advantage. He was toted as the strongest wrestler in world, body slammed the 600 pound Haystacks Calhoun, and even wrestled an orangutan.

Bruno should win this. I think he's one of the few in the tournament that does have a claim of being bigger star than Cena - along with Hogan, Thesz, Austin, and Santo - and he was wrestling's biggest star before the Hogan era. Even now he's treated like friggin' wrestling royalty almost. Almost the last true living larger than life legend from before the Hogan era.

It's a documented fact that Cena's record against other top industry stars - or in general - isn't as good as others. And Bruno wouldn't be an exception. And I can't help but question just how big of a name Cena's actually would be in comparison. Bruno's name value alone sold out Madison Square Garden more times than anyone else in history - 187 times. Along with a host of other places including 40,000+ in Venezuela.

Cena has been an important factor for WWE, but he's never been greater than the name of the company itself. Bruno was. His accolades and legacy proceed themselves. John Cena is a staggering 14 time world champion and has spent a combined 1,345 days as champ. And yet Bruno first reign as champion in 1963 by itself was longer, and his second reign in 1973 was almost as long. Bruno wasn't just a wrestler, he was wrestling personified. Nowadays wrestling "personified" is the WWE.

Bruno deserves the victory here. Cena is worthy enough to call himself "the greatest star of the modern era." But he just comes up short against Sammartino and everything he's accomplished.

Vote Bruno.

 

[nightmare]

Bruno.


Cena would have been a jewel in the crown during Bruno's main title run. Stipulation is very much in favor of Sammartino. A very hard fought effort from Cena, but he just wont rack up enough falls on Bruno in this match.

 

[Big Sexy]

Better mic skills- John Cena
Better in the ring- John Cena
More entertaining- John Cena
Bigger National Superstar- John Cena

It's always hard to debate these matches because the eras of wrestling are so different but this match goes to Cena. For this era of wrestling Cena has had more lengthy matches on big stages then nearly anyone in the business so stamina wouldn't be an issue here. In Bruno's era all champions went long distances because that's how it was in that era.

The fact remains that Bruno was a regional champion in a regional promotion. A good 90% of his matches (if not more) when he was on top took place in the Northeast. The only places internationally he ever really fought were Japan and Canada. When it came to the US he occasionally had a match or two in the mid west, Florida, and California but those were few and far between. His lengthy reign as champion is obviously his biggest selling point and extremely impressive but what if we put Cena in that era? You put a guy like Cena in the regional WWWF during the 60's and 70's and considering he is better then Bruno in basically every way imaginable, whats to say he doesn't have those lengthy reigns?

My vote goes to Cena.

 

[HBsam31]

This stipulation definitely favors Bruno in my opinion. One hour matches were the norm in his day, and I have to agree with the fact that was brought up that Cena doesn't have a great record against the industry's top stars. This will definitely be an all out war, but Bruno will survive to move onto the next round.

 

[Big Sexy]

This stipulation definitely favors Bruno in my opinion. One hour matches were the norm in his day, and I have to agree with the fact that was brought up that Cena doesn't have a great record against the industry's top stars. This will definitely be an all out war, but Bruno will survive to move onto the next round.

Cena's record is just fine against top stars. Since 2005 when he first became WWE champion he is 4-2 over Batista, 5-4 over CM Punk, 8-0 over Jericho, 1-1 against Daniel Bryan, 7-4 over Edge, 2-2 against HBK, 1-1 against The Rock, 2-2 against Triple H, 7-6 over Randy Orton, and 1-0 over Brock Lesnar. Those matches are only singles matches and don't include dark matches or CO/DQ finishes. In this era of wrestling to have an even record or winning record over literally every top star you have come across is remarkable.

I'll go back to my original point:

Better mic skills- John Cena
Better in the ring- John Cena
More entertaining- John Cena
Bigger National Superstar- John Cena

Until someone can put up an argument against any of those points then Cena should win.

One correction from my original post. I mentioned Sammartino being a regional star with 90% of his matches taking place in the Northeast and very little international exposure outside of Canada and Japan. That statement still stands true but before someone else brings it up, I did find in 1966 where he spent a few weeks doing shows in Australia and Venezuela as well. However, John Cena still shits all over him when it comes to being a bigger National and International star. Cena has been the face of the WWE for nearly a decade and has sold out worldwide in a countless number of countries.

 

[Bernkastel]

Cena's record is just fine against top stars.

True, but he still loses to the undercard allot more than an other top star. He'd be the most likely out of any of them to take a dive.

Since 2005 when he first became WWE champion he is 4-2 over Batista, 5-4 over CM Punk, 8-0 over Jericho, 1-1 against Daniel Bryan, 7-4 over Edge, 2-2 against HBK, 1-1 against The Rock, 2-2 against Triple H, 7-6 over Randy Orton, and 1-0 over Brock Lesnar.

I don't think anyone has questioned his merit to win big matches; because he does. But so did Bruno. The biggest difference is that Cena as done the job to allot of lower end talent. Bruno only lost to big time stars like Lou Thesz and Billy Graham. Cena lost not only to big time stars like Rock and Punk, but to grunts like Tensai and Wade Barrett.

Those matches are only singles matches and don't include dark matches or CO/DQ finishes. In this era of wrestling to have an even record or winning record over literally every top star you have come across is remarkable.

Every top star has a winning record in their era. That's why they are top stars. Austin/Rock/Hogan/and Bruno are the same. That shouldn't be a mark for Cena.

Better mic skills- John Cena

Probably, but Cena worked an era where promos themselves were more prominent and complex. But it's not as if Bruno didn't have charisma.

Better in the ring- John Cena

LOL no. 100% subjective statement and a toss up for either man. Bruno was widely known as one of the best wrestlers the industry has ever seen. Even while Hogan was at his peak Bruno's work was still being praised. To suggest Cena was better even by a slight margin is asinine.

More entertaining- John Cena

Another 100% subjective statement.

Bigger National Superstar- John Cena

Arguable. Judging by Bruno's reception and the press he received at the HOF suggests that he's still revered. Most of Cena's drawing power comes from the fact that WWE as a company draws.

I can make the distinction that Bruno was bigger name than the WWWF. I cannot make the distinction that John Cena is a bigger name than the WWE.

Until someone can put up an argument against any of those points then Cena should win.

To rehash Cena might be better on the mic, but that doesn't carry much weight. Bruno wasn't just a regionally known wrestler. He was a giant international star known everywhere. Most of Cena's drawing power - especially his staying power - comes from the fact that WWE as a brand has drawing power.

One correction from my original post. I mentioned Sammartino being a regional star with 90% of his matches taking place in the Northeast and very little international exposure outside of Canada and Japan. That statement still stands true but before someone else brings it up, I did find in 1966 where he spent a few weeks doing shows in Australia and Venezuela as well. However, John Cena still shits all over him when it comes to being a bigger National and International star. Cena has been the face of the WWE for nearly a decade and has sold out worldwide in a countless number of countries.

John Cena is a globally known star because WWE is a globally known promotion. People don't know John Cena. They know WWE. 40 years ago people knew Bruno Sammartino even if they didn't know the WWWF. Even today Bruno has proven that he's still quite revered by the public.

And Bruno now has a statue built in his honor. Does Cena have any statues built in his honor? He sure doesn't.

Vote Bruno.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Arguable. Judging by Bruno's reception and the press he received at the HOF suggests that he's still revered. Most of Cena's drawing power comes from the fact that WWE as a company draws.

I can make the distinction that Bruno was bigger name than the WWWF. I cannot make the distinction that John Cena is a bigger name than the WWE.

The fact that Bruno is remembered is because of WWE. Even when he wasn't on good terms with Vince and the company, Bruno was put over by the company. Bruno was a champion of a territory, it just happens that his territory included a famous arena and evolved into WWE.

John Cena is a globally known star because WWE is a globally known promotion. People don't know John Cena. They know WWE. 40 years ago people knew Bruno Sammartino even if they didn't know the WWWF. Even today Bruno has proven that he's still quite revered by the public.

And Bruno now has a statue built in his honor. Does Cena have any statues built in his honor? He sure doesn't.

Vote Bruno.

I really hope the statue thing is a joke or else you've run out of straws to grasp at and are resorting to toothpicks.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

If you've seen recent threads about John Cena this match is an easy call. Cena's PPV record is an abomination and all he does is get other guys over. Bruno's wrestling style is very similar to John Lauranitus. Bruno goes over here 198 falls to a pencil sharpener. Then Dixie Carter Tweets about something.

Vote Bruno because it's bad that jorts are making a fashion comeback and otherwise Cena is just going to lose in the final anyway and I'm tired of predictability.

 

[Bernkastel]

The fact that Bruno is remembered is because of WWE. Even when he wasn't on good terms with Vince and the company, Bruno was put over by the company.

So it's a detriment to Bruno that WWE would remember him because he was a good wrestler Oh yeah, real convincing.

Bruno was a champion of a territory, it just happens that his territory included a famous arena and evolved into WWE.

He was also a bigger name than the WWWF at the time. And there wasn't hardly anyone else in the territory that was close to his star power. Not Andre, not Graham, not Backlund. John Cena, on the other hand, isn't a bigger name than WWE as a company, even if he is the biggest star in the company.

No way you could give Cena brownie points for that.

I really hope the statue thing is a joke or else you've run out of straws to grasp at and are resorting to toothpicks.

It's not. But I hope you weren't just being facetious either.

[youtube]5XWy6vHV_kM[/youtube]

 

[Thriller Ant]

So it's a detriment to Bruno that WWE would remember him because he was a good wrestler Oh yeah, real convincing.

WWE remembered him because he fits into their historical narrative. Bruno was very good, but if you keep everything about Bruno the same but put him in a different territory, WWE would not hold him in the same regard.

He was also a bigger name than the WWWF at the time. And there wasn't hardly anyone else in the territory that was close to his star power. Not Andre, not Graham, not Backlund. John Cena, on the other hand, isn't a bigger name than WWE as a company, even if he is the biggest star in the company.

No way you could give Cena brownie points for that.

You are penalizing Cena for the era he exists in. No active wrestler will ever be bigger than WWE ever again. I know it's a buzzword they use, but WWE really is a global phenomenon. Sure, someone like Rock can go to Hollywood and become a major star, but no one can be bigger than WWE when they are in it due to it not just being a regional promotion anymore.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

[YOUTUBE]5J0C9KGZTwg[/YOUTUBE]

Now, let's not discredit Randy Orton here because he's a very good superstar in his own right, but the fact of the matter is, Cena was pinned FIVE times during that match, and during the match, the time was stopped to allow Cena to recuperate. If you factor in the time that was wasted, that means Orton's tap-out shouldn't have counted and the match should have gone to sudden death. And while Orton may be more savage than Bruno, Bruno is a MUCH bigger deal than Orton, and a bigger threat to Cena here than Orton ever was.

Bruno fought long matches all the time, where as that's the only match of Cena's I can think that went for 60 minutes, and even 40 minute matches are rarities for Cena. And in the only Iron Man Match Cena has on record (at least, as far as I can remember) in his prime is one he:

A) Should have gone into over-time anyway.
B) Was pinned five times in the match.
C) Fought against Randy Orton, who is not in Bruno's league anyway, and isn't exactly a wrestler with endurance, whereas Bruno is.

Cena gets a few pinfalls here and there, but it's pretty conspicuous that Bruno has the very obvious advantage in this match.

Bruno wins.

 

[Bernkastel]

WWE remembered him because he fits into their historical narrative. Bruno was very good, but if you keep everything about Bruno the same but put him in a different territory, WWE would not hold him in the same regard.

Okay... and that's a mark again Bruno how? He should job out to John Cena because?

You are penalizing Cena for the era he exists in.

Not really. I am pointing out the fact that John Cena's drawing power isn't as big as some people like to think. Especially his staying power. He has WWE to thank for that. Fans 40 years ago knew of Bruno even if they couldn't place where he worked. WWWF may have been a regional company but Bruno was an international star.

You think when Bruno drew 40,000+ in Venezuela the Venezuelans had WWWF to thank for that or Bruno? When WWE drew 20,000 or so in China was it Cena drawing all those people or was it the WWE as a company?

Some people tend to want to think that just because the WWE as a company is bigger now than what it was 30 or 40 years ago the the megastars are too. But that's not the case. If that were true a midcarder like Kofi Kingston would probably be a bigger star as a whole than 1980's Hogan.

No active wrestler will ever be bigger than WWE ever again. I know it's a buzzword they use, but WWE really is a global phenomenon. Sure, someone like Rock can go to Hollywood and become a major star, but no one can be bigger than WWE when they are in it due to it not just being a regional promotion anymore.

I disagree with this, but such a discussion is rather irrelevant since it deals with future unknowns.

 

[Loveless]

Cena in TNA? Nope, this is ECW and RVD all over again. Cena isn't getting booked to win and especially not against someone who was a bigger star than he's ever been.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

True, but he still loses to the undercard allot more than an other top star. He'd be the most likely out of any of them to take a dive.



I don't think anyone has questioned his merit to win big matches; because he does. But so did Bruno. The biggest difference is that Cena as done the job to allot of lower end talent. Bruno only lost to big time stars like Lou Thesz and Billy Graham. Cena lost not only to big time stars like Rock and Punk, but to grunts like Tensai and Wade Barrett.

If you're talking legacy and importance to the WWE. I find no one more important than John Cena. Cena brought the WWE and professional wrestling itself out of it's darkest age in 2007. He helped WWE not only recover but make great money that year and into the next. Everything was on the line with Benoit tragedy and Cena was in the forefront of all of that. On TV everywhere and leading the WWE in alot of ways. His importance can't be understated

Every top star has a winning record in their era. That's why they are top stars. Austin/Rock/Hogan/and Bruno are the same. That shouldn't be a mark for Cena.

Agreed

Probably, but Cena worked an era where promos themselves were more prominent and complex. But it's not as if Bruno didn't have charisma.

Bruno lacked in charisma imo. My dad and grandfather said the same thing. I'm not saying he completely was void of it but it wasn't as if charisma was the most important thing back then

LOL no. 100% subjective statement and a toss up for either man. Bruno was widely known as one of the best wrestlers the industry has ever seen. Even while Hogan was at his peak Bruno's work was still being praised. To suggest Cena was better even by a slight margin is asinine.

But Cena is better, Cena is a beast and while I respect Bruno and have fought for him so far the thing is I'm looking at legacy and I think Cena belongs in the same sentence as any one of these guys. Including Hogan, Bruno may be there as well, I just have Cena higher than him

Arguable. Judging by Bruno's reception and the press he received at the HOF suggests that he's still revered. Most of Cena's drawing power comes from the fact that WWE as a company draws.

But you yourself said there's a noticeable change and that Cena moves the needle in modern day. It's very difficult to do that, a lot harder than it is for a regional company.

I can make the distinction that Bruno was bigger name than the WWWF. I cannot make the distinction that John Cena is a bigger name than the WWE.

Not disagreeing, to a certain extent. But WWWF wasn't anything like WWE. There were a lot more federations around then and I argue that Gorgeous George was bigger than his territory in that day, it doesn't mean he should go over John Cena. I could also with quite a bit a certainty that Bruno wouldn't have been bigger than WWE today.

To rehash Cena might be better on the mic, but that doesn't carry much weight. Bruno wasn't just a regionally known wrestler. He was a giant international star known everywhere. Most of Cena's drawing power - especially his staying power - comes from the fact that WWE as a brand has drawing power.

Again you yourself said Cena moves the needle, and in the WWE today, that's hard to impossible. Yes Bruno moved the needle but it's not hard to see why.

And Bruno now has a statue built in his honor. Does Cena have any statues built in his honor? He sure doesn't.

.

Bruno does have a statue just like Kareem does outside the staple center, but here's the thing. No one doubts that Kobe Bryant will have a statue outside of Staples one day. Just like I think Cena will have one in the WWE. Stars hardly get their due in their time, Bruno didn't, he didn't get a statue until WM this year if I'm correct. That said Cena deserves one, and will have one in due time. Just like Bruno had to wait for his.

 

[Bernkastel]

If you're talking legacy and importance to the WWE. I find no one more important than John Cena. Cena brought the WWE and professional wrestling itself out of it's darkest age in 2007. He helped WWE not only recover but make great money that year and into the next. Everything was on the line with Benoit tragedy and Cena was in the forefront of all of that. On TV everywhere and leading the WWE in alot of ways. His importance can't be understated

I disagree with Cena being the most important. TBH that moniker should be reserved for Hogan. Cena brought WWE out of a hole must like Austin did. Except from a business standard with just sheer numbers Cena wasn't quite as good. He's at least 4th. 5th counting Bruno IMO.

Bruno lacked in charisma imo. My dad and grandfather said the same thing. I'm not saying he completely was void of it but it wasn't as if charisma was the most important thing back then

Being charismatic and working promos like they do now wasn't as important back then. Where as Bruno still worked 60 minutes technical draws all the time. WWE doesn't do that now.

That's why saying Cena is better in the ring is subjective and Bruno was a better worker is also subjective

But you yourself said there's a noticeable change and that Cena moves the needle in modern day. It's very difficult to do that, a lot harder than it is for a regional company.

Cena did move the needle in the beginning but hasn't in the past few years. Not like he was. He's mostly been coasting. Bruno was reaching new heights all the time. It just never stopped for him. 187 sellouts at MSG, 11 years spent as world champion, and massive successes found all over the world. Cena has been coasting for at least the past 2 or 3 years, and after just 9 years of being "the man," and even his greatest benefactors like Mick Foley are clamoring for some kind of change. Even if it's tiny.

Bruno never changed. The fans never grew tired of him. He was a champion for 11 years with just two reigns, and was the biggest star in the world.

And part of that may be a difference in eras, but then again Cena really is the first top era star to get the reactions that he does.

Not disagreeing, to a certain extent. But WWWF wasn't anything like WWE. There were a lot more federations around then and I argue that Gorgeous George was bigger than his territory in that day, it doesn't mean he should go over John Cena. I could also with quite a bit a certainty that Bruno wouldn't have been bigger than WWE today.

Which is a fair point. In many ways the two are basically equal sans for one or two big key points.

And it is difficult to say for sure. What I do know is that just because Cena works in a era where the WWE is a bigger, more successful company than it was in Bruno's time doesn't mean that Cena is a bigger star. And I don't feel he is.

It is easy to see how big a draw Bruno was. It's not that easy with Cena past 2009/2010. And it may just be bias, but I feel from a quality standpoint that Bruno was better. And vice versa was a bigger star. Just like I'd call Austin or Hogan bigger stars than Cena.

 

[Tastycles]

This is so close, and its really hard to pick a winner. Cena is a much better modern pro wrestler, Sammartino is a much better old school one. Cena's lasting influence has yet to be felt, Sammartino's is that he is part of the reason the WWF got so big. For my money, there's very little to separate them, however I'm going with John Cena purely on the fact that I think he's probably entered deeper into the mind of the fairweather fan.

 

[Bythedockofthebay]

I will say this much, this match is as good as it should be imo. It's an all out brawl and that's the way it has to be with these two legends

 

[Big Sexy]

Probably, but Cena worked an era where promos themselves were more prominent and complex. But it's not as if Bruno didn't have charisma.

I've seen Sammartino interviews/promos. They are mind numbingly awful and boring

LOL no. 100% subjective statement and a toss up for either man. Bruno was widely known as one of the best wrestlers the industry has ever seen. Even while Hogan was at his peak Bruno's work was still being praised. To suggest Cena was better even by a slight margin is asinine.

When you are talking about guys who wrestle in totally different eras, EVERYTHING is subjective. You don't have to say it in every statement you make. John Cena matches have entertained me for years. I've watched plenty of Bruno Sammartino matches and they nearly put me to sleep. A lot of that is because the era of wrestling was different but I can say the exact same thing about the length of Sammartino's title reigns. It was because the era was different.

Arguable. Judging by Bruno's reception and the press he received at the HOF suggests that he's still revered. Most of Cena's drawing power comes from the fact that WWE as a company draws.

You do realize he was inducted at MSG right? You know the building he basically lived at because the WWWF was a regional promotion?

I can make the distinction that Bruno was bigger name than the WWWF. I cannot make the distinction that John Cena is a bigger name than the WWE.

People who don't watch wrestling still know who Cena is so I consider that pretty impressive. No one at this point is necessarily bigger then the WWE because it's basically impossible to be. It's not hard to be bigger then a regional promotion like Bruno was.

John Cena is a globally known star because WWE is a globally known promotion. People don't know John Cena. They know WWE. 40 years ago people knew Bruno Sammartino even if they didn't know the WWWF. Even today Bruno has proven that he's still quite revered by the public.

Cena isn't just globally known, he is globally admired. Big difference. And once again tons of people know John Cena even if they don't watch the WWE.

And Bruno now has a statue built in his honor. Does Cena have any statues built in his honor? He sure doesn't.

Lol he got a statue 3 decades after retiring from being a full time WWE performer. Usually you don't make statues for guys still in the primes of their careers.

 

[Bernkastel]

I've seen Sammartino interviews/promos. They are mind numbingly awful and boring

On the contrary, I don't think so. Point moot.

When you are talking about guys who wrestle in totally different eras, EVERYTHING is subjective. You don't have to say it in every statement you make. John Cena matches have entertained me for years. I've watched plenty of Bruno Sammartino matches and they nearly put me to sleep. A lot of that is because the era of wrestling was different but I can say the exact same thing about the length of Sammartino's title reigns. It was because the era was different.

So basically your point is "Cezna wins cuz I like him more." Way to take the easy way out.

You do realize he was inducted at MSG right? You know the building he basically lived at because the WWWF was a regional promotion?

Oh heavens me. The guy that sold out MSG more times than anyone else in history gets inducted into the HOF at MSG. Clearly that's a knock to his drawing power and significance. Oh wait, no it's not.

People who don't watch wrestling still know who Cena is so how is he not bigger then the WWE?

No they don't. Not even close.

Cena isn't just globally known, he is globally admired. Big difference. And once again tons of people know John Cena even if they don't watch the WWE.

He's admired by fans that not only know what the WWE is, but also watch the product. Walk down the street and ask random people from different age groups who John Cena is. Most probably aren't going to know. When that happens ask them what the WWE is. Most will probably say "I know what it is but I don't watch it."

Point is that 40 years ago non wrestling fans knew who Bruno was even if they didn't know what the WWWF was. "Oh he's that one wrestler guy."

Except for maybe Hogan, ordinary people don't know wrestlers now; they know promotions.

 

[Big Sexy]

On the contrary, I don't think so. Point moot.

So basically your point is "Cezna wins cuz I like him more." Way to take the easy way out.

Not unless your point is basically "Sammartinozzzz wins cuz I like him more." I'm not taking any easy way out. I have been watching wrestling for over 20 years so I like to think I have a pretty damn good idea of what constitutes a good match, a good promo, and a talented performer. Cena is the face of a National promotion and has been so for a decade. Sammartino could never make that claim.

Oh heavens me. The guy that sold out MSG more times than anyone else in history gets inducted into the HOF at MSG. Clearly that's a knock to his drawing power and significance. Oh wait, no it's not.

When the fuck did I say it was a knock against him? You said his reaction at the HOF shows people still know and admire him and I'm just saying I would hope he gets a good reaction at the arena that was the mecca of the territory he worked back in the day.

No they don't. Not even close.

You're an idiot. John Cena has been in multiple movies (albeit mostly shitty ones), has appeared on multiple TV shows, done SNL, been on Punk'd, Deal or No Deal, etc. Are you saying that every single person watching all of those are wrestling fans? John Cena has been the most requested Make A Wish celebrity and granted more wishes then anyone. You think that the mom's of all those kids are huge wrestling fans who watch every week with their kid and follow his career? Or could it be their kid loves wrestling and John Cena and now the mom knows him and loves him because he just made her kid's day? Plenty of non wrestling fans know John Cena because as the face of the WWE his reach is far greater then the wrestling world itself.

Point is that 40 years ago non wrestling fans knew who Bruno was even if they didn't know what the WWWF was. "Oh he's that one wrestler guy."

Bull fucking shit. What did Bruno do outside of wrestling that would make a non wrestling fan in the 60's and 70's know who he was? MAYBE in the Northeast some people may have known but outside of that region unless you were a wrestling fan, you didn't know who Bruno was.

 

[Awesome_Miz]

[YOUTUBE]5J0C9KGZTwg[/YOUTUBE]

Now, let's not discredit Randy Orton here because he's a very good superstar in his own right, but the fact of the matter is, Cena was pinned FIVE times during that match, and during the match, the time was stopped to allow Cena to recuperate. If you factor in the time that was wasted, that means Orton's tap-out shouldn't have counted and the match should have gone to sudden death. And while Orton may be more savage than Bruno, Bruno is a MUCH bigger deal than Orton, and a bigger threat to Cena here than Orton ever was.

Bruno fought long matches all the time, where as that's the only match of Cena's I can think that went for 60 minutes, and even 40 minute matches are rarities for Cena. And in the only Iron Man Match Cena has on record (at least, as far as I can remember) in his prime is one he:

A) Should have gone into over-time anyway.
B) Was pinned five times in the match.
C) Fought against Randy Orton, who is not in Bruno's league anyway, and isn't exactly a wrestler with endurance, whereas Bruno is.

Cena gets a few pinfalls here and there, but it's pretty conspicuous that Bruno has the very obvious advantage in this match.

Bruno wins.

Good match you have chosen. Now, let's go back and discuss other long matches were Cena has been involved in:

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cteq6gwVrE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peMpm_HPewQ[/YOUTUBE]

Noticed anything in this matches about John? Hopefully yes. The thing is/was John into the match within 30 mins. or so, looked like he was barely into the match 5 minutes. Like KB said in one of his reviews for this matches "Cena proved himself to be a superman".

I know Bruno has proven in his time he can last in hour long matches, but Cena has proven it further he can longer and smoother. Now, add up the fact of Cena's moves, agility, and all that good stuff and he'll show you he'll out do Bruno in this match.

Also, don't bring up the fact that Cena lost both those matches as their is a different between an 60 minute match, were you can pick up as many wins as you want, and a one fall match.

P.S. Also, don't bring up the Cena-Orton match cause that match was an hour long match, but it was No-DQ. Which explains Cena needing time to get up.


Vote El Cena!

 

[Bernkastel]

Not unless your point is basically "Sammartinozzzz wins cuz I like him more." I'm not taking any easy way out.

My point is that Sammartino is the bigger star. He should win.

You're an idiot. John Cena has been in multiple movies (albeit mostly shitty ones), has appeared on multiple TV shows, done SNL, been on Punk'd, Deal or No Deal, etc.

And you're a Cena mark that thinks he transcends the WWE name. He doesn't. His movies were nothing. He does cable TV programs [woopty fucking doo.] Big Show has done so, Edge has done so, Miz has done so, Punk has done so. I guess they all "transcend" WWE too right? Guess who else did television programs? Bruno.

Cena is not the type of person the average person over the age of 35 that aren't wrestling fans would recognize or care about. WWE as a company on the other hand, everybody knows what they are. Even most senior citizens will know what WWE is just from the fact that they are "pro wrestling". But LOL trying to get any of them to tell you who John Cena is.

Are you saying that every single person watching all of those are wrestling fans?

The majority, yes. Average people aren't going to associate with WWE and WWE products if they aren't fans. If they did then his movies would have grossed way more. 12 Rounds even flopped. As it stands See No Evil remains the most successful WWE movie. I guess Kane is more successful crossover star than Cena

John Cena has been the most requested Make A Wish celebrity and granted more wishes then anyone. You think that the mom's of all those kids are huge wrestling fans who watch every week with their kid and follow his career?

The kids are the wrestling fans. The parent's aren't. Kids are the WWE's primary target audience. Not adults. Ask any adult with kids over the age of 15 who Cena is and they aren't going to have a god damn clue.

Or could it be their kid loves wrestling and John Cena and now the mom knows him and loves him because he just made her kid's day? Plenty of non wrestling fans know John Cena because as the face of the WWE his reach is far greater then the wrestling world itself.

And Cena gets to utilize that role as often as he does because of WWE's working relationship with Make A Wish. He's certainly not the first wrestler to grant wishes. He just so happens to be the most popular wrestler in a company that gears itself towards children. Makes sense that he would be the all time wish maker.

Bull fucking shit. What did Bruno do outside of wrestling that would make a non wrestling fan in the 60's and 70's know who he was? MAYBE in the Northeast some people may have known but outside of that region unless you were a wrestling fan, you didn't know who Bruno was.

Wrestling back then wasn't viewed then like it is now. Wrestlers were still treated as legit athletes instead of sports entertainers. In the 60's and 70's fans were still treating wrestling like a spectator sport. Like boxing. Lou Thesz's name was just as big as Joe Louis's or Mohammad Ali's. Bruno wasn't any different. And if you don't think so then I suggest you do more research.

And no, Bruno wasn't just primarily known in the Northeast. He was known everywhere in the world. Even in obscure places like Venezuela he was still able to draw 40,000 people with his name alone.