ECW: San Antonio Sub-Region

[Shocky]

in matches like these jeff could beat lesnar!

No, not in this universe or any other universe, or in Jeff Hardy's IMAGInation.

seriously all it takes is some well placed shots and being quick wich he is

Yes, because everything in Jeff's career so far has shown that he is precise at everything,a nd never completely wild in the ring.


I love the enthusiasm, but both Hardy's couldn't beat Brock Lesnar together, and that was their tag team prime. A Tag Team in their primes as a team, couldn't beat a guy that was 3 weeks into the business.

A month Later, Brock killed Jeff Hardy. Yes, taht same Jeff Hardy in 2002 that most everyone says had the best match of his career no more then 3 months later to the Undertaker, in a ladder match. The same Undertaker that beat Jeff Hardy in his speciality match, got his ass handed to him by Brock Lesnar in the Undertaker's speciality match. This seems about as academic as it could be. Nothing, ever, has suggested that Jeff Hardy is remotely in the same league as Brock Lesnar in the ring.

Brock destroys Jeff, then smears his stupid ass face paint on hisself like he did with Hogan's blood.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Liger will have a tough time getting by HBK and if HBK does advance, then Lesnar will be licking his chops waiting for him. I can't wait to make my case for Lesnar then. I may vote for Liger over HBK but I have to study a little bit more on Liger first.

 

[Nero89]

jeff has changed a lot nowadays and again with some nice shots he could win this. not sure why ur thinkin he would miss???? but i know for a fact that the boy can swing the fuck out of a chair

 

[HBK-aholic]

I'm contemplaying rallying support for Jeff Hardy in this round because it'll make my job easier in the next round - Shawn could beat Jeff Hardy no problem. Lesnar would be a threat. While I still think Shawn could take him as he has a lot of experience with guys bigger than himself, Lesnar has a lot of support and there are good arguments for him that I can't really be bothered debating.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

There is only a two year span when Lesnar was around so that aren't as many arguments to be made against him as there are others. He never took a real step down the card in those two years.

If Shawn Michaels faced Lesnar then the outcome would have been the same as most Lesnar matches.

Although Lesnars greatest opponent was Kurt Angle, if HBK can beat Kurt then he could find a way to defeat Lesnar. But it's doubtful.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Jake, this isn't a game of Top Trumps. It's a game of rock, paper, scissors. I'm sure some of you vaguely know what I mean. Personally, I have no idea. Edit: Maybe I mean that Kurt is rock, HBK is paper and Brock is scissors? But what sort of crazy paper only sometimes covers rock!? No, no, no; this metaphor doesn't work at all!

But anyway, good luck campaigning for Jeff Hardy when you've publicly announced the only reason you're doing so is to give HBK an easier opponent.

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Jake, this isn't a game of Top Trumps.

It is, really.

You don't think people vote for a wrestler who beat a wrestler who he once faced on a No Mercy undercard?

 

[Uncle Sam]

Why would you confuse me by not using metaphors? You know I only speak figuratively, Jake. And Angle only beat Lesnar after they rebuilt him. They had the technology. They made him better, stronger, faster. That or protein shakes.

 

[NSL]

Michaels vs. Lynn: 41-15. Say what you will, but credit must be given to team Lynn for managing to get 15 votes against the WZ Tournament Darling that is Shawn Michaels. Michaels is notorious in getting near 100% of the vote in all of his matches, and he only has lost once, in the final four last year to the eventual winner. To get more then a 1/4 of the votes against michaels in round two shouldn't be taken lightly.

I'll take 15 votes as a moral victory, and look forward to a re-match next year.

San Antonio, TX
2. Shawn Michaels
18. Jushin Thunder Liger

I'm a huge Lynn fan, but I can't deny that Liger is far better. He's done more for wrestling, and innovated so much more, that he should at least put up a better fight against HBK. This could be interesting...

Although I will agree with Shocky, specifically NSL deserve A LOT of credit for getting that many votes - some of the arguments I had to take a step back from and re-read before debating.

It definitely wasn't just me. Justin also made some very good arguments. And, almost everyone that voted for HBK, that posted, had great things to say about Lynn. It was never that he was thought of as a lesser competitor, but it was tough to make people see that he could win. Yes, "could" not "would". I'm not foolish enough to think it would be one-sided, but it would be a damn good match.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'm contemplaying rallying support for Jeff Hardy in this round because it'll make my job easier in the next round - Shawn could beat Jeff Hardy no problem. Lesnar would be a threat. While I still think Shawn could take him as he has a lot of experience with guys bigger than himself, Lesnar has a lot of support and there are good arguments for him that I can't really be bothered debating.

No problem, you say?

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[Leeds Guy]

I'm contemplaying rallying support for Jeff Hardy in this round because it'll make my job easier in the next round - Shawn could beat Jeff Hardy no problem. Lesnar would be a threat. While I still think Shawn could take him as he has a lot of experience with guys bigger than himself, Lesnar has a lot of support and there are good arguments for him that I can't really be bothered debating.

So by your logic. Shawn > Lesner ?

and as LJL has just posted Hardy > Shawn

so in theory

Hardy > Shawn > Lesner

but in all seriousness HBK in his prime could handle Lesner's and Hardy's prime. HBK should win the region, and while Lesner will probably beat Hardy (unless I can convince other people otherwise which I dont think I can) I dont think it would be the squash that everyones making it out to be.

 

[justinsayne]

I'm contemplaying rallying support for Jeff Hardy in this round

Jeff Hardy has absolutely zero chance against Brock, Brocks first match was him destroying Jeff Hardy, a Jeff Hardy who really hasn't changed all that much since then, hell Brock beat Jeff so badly in that match that he didn't even need to cover him for the 3 count, Brock was awarded the win via KO

because it'll make my job easier in the next round - Shawn could beat Jeff Hardy no problem. Lesnar would be a threat.

I think you're taking the challenge of Liger far to lightly, I could easily see Liger upsetting HBK and moving on

While I still think Shawn could take him as he has a lot of experience with guys bigger than himself,

HBK has never taken on a guy that has been as dominant as Lesnar, I'm sure it would be a good match and if it were to happen I'm sure HBK would give Lesnar a run for his money but at the end of the day I still see Lesnar coming out on top

Lesnar has a lot of support and there are good arguments for him that I can't really be bothered debating.

someones lazy

 

[HBK-aholic]

No problem, you say?

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I thought someone would bring that match up, makes me laugh actually. What will happen here, has nothing to do with a match where the winner was pre-determined by McMahon in order to give Jeff Hardy a nice little rub. It was Triple H's job, but yano..

So by your logic. Shawn > Lesner ?

and as LJL has just posted Hardy > Shawn

so in theory

Hardy > Shawn > Lesner

Lol, he wishes. I think I said Shawn will win either, just that Hardy will be easier competition for him. I'm a huge Lesnar fan, and he can't be underestimated.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Jeff Hardy has absolutely zero chance against Brock, Brocks first match was him destroying Jeff Hardy, a Jeff Hardy who really hasn't changed all that much since then, hell Brock beat Jeff so badly in that match that he didn't even need to cover him for the 3 count, Brock was awarded the win via KO

Stop making my life harder and vote Hardy . I agree with you, I'm not going to attempt saying I think Hardy could win this if it actually happened. I just want him to, haha.

I think you're taking the challenge of Liger far to lightly, I could easily see Liger upsetting HBK and moving on

Seriously? I saw much tougher competition in Lynn, where the same thing was said. I'm not a big Liger fan and have seen nothing from him that will cause Shawn any trouble.

HBK has never taken on a guy that has been as dominant as Lesnar, I'm sure it would be a good match and if it were to happen I'm sure HBK would give Lesnar a run for his money but at the end of the day I still see Lesnar coming out on top

The match would be great, there's no doubt about it. And yes Lesnar has a chance here. But that's all. Shawn is the better competitor in every section except maybe strength, and I think ECW works better for Shawn than it does Lesnar.

someones lazy

This is very true

 

[Uncle Sam]

I thought someone would bring that match up, makes me laugh actually. What will happen here, has nothing to do with a match where the winner was pre-determined by McMahon in order to give Jeff Hardy a nice little rub. It was Triple H's job, but yano...

Wait, what? To my knowledge, Shawn Michaels has only ever wrestled one match where the winner was not completely pre-determined. People didn't much like him for it. If we're going on matches that aren't pre-determined, your boy is completely fucked when it comes to Lesnar.

And yes Lesnar has a chance here. But that's all. Shawn is the better competitor in every section except maybe strength, and I think ECW works better for Shawn than it does Lesnar.

Yeah, sure. I mean, if you lie, anything could be true. Lesnar is faster, more agile, stronger, smarter, better at submissions, better at striking, better at mat wrestling, better at throws, more vicious, more malicious, less forgiving and better at many other things than Michaels. Not to mention he has infinitely better stamina and endurance. And this is Michaels in his prime I'm comparing him to.

Shit, Brock is even younger. It's not a fixed timeline, yet that's a certainty.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Wait, what? To my knowledge, Shawn Michaels has only ever wrestled one match where the winner was not completely pre-determined. People didn't much like him for it.

I legit LOL'd. Anyway, this is true. Hence why I haven't really used the results of any matches as arguments. Quite simply because it's pointless. I've used matches where I feel Shawn has displayed characteristics which show he could handle it in the ECW region, but the winner of them is a different story altogether and it needs to be remembered that the winners are chosen not because of their performance in a match but because it's the best thing to continue a storyline or to help a wrestler establish himself.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If it is voted that Brock Lesnar and HBK move on to the next round, I'm curious to see what kind of gimmick match. I don't see a gimmick match in which HBK will have a huge advantage. Maybe a ladder match, but I can't remember the last time HBK has won one of those.

 

[Uncle Sam]

If only this was the WWE region and Hell in a Cell was a possibility. I would have pissed my pants if that were drawn. You know, because Michaels famously had the piss kicked out of him by Undertaker in a cell. In turn, Brock Lesnar kicked the piss out of The Undertaker in a cell. I'm sure it was in revenge for Michaels - don't you worry, Becca.

What are the gimmick options, anyway?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Seriously? I saw much tougher competition in Lynn, where the same thing was said. I'm not a big Liger fan and have seen nothing from him that will cause Shawn any trouble.

See, I was resigned to the fact that Liger would lose to Shawn Michaels. But, with comments like these, I only become more motivated to defend him to victory. So, you're not a big Liger fan? All right, I can't argue that point. But, to say that Liger doesn't have anything that could cause Michaels any trouble is simply not true. If you come into the match with statements like this one, then I will have no choice but to prove how wrong you are.

Shawn's biggest disadvantage in this match is that he's a borderline cruiserweight. Thus, unlike in previous rounds, where Liger had to rely on his speed and mat wrestling, his repertoire of moves against someone like Michaels just about doubles.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

I'm contemplaying rallying support for Jeff Hardy in this round because it'll make my job easier in the next round - Shawn could beat Jeff Hardy no problem. Lesnar would be a threat. While I still think Shawn could take him as he has a lot of experience with guys bigger than himself, Lesnar has a lot of support and there are good arguments for him that I can't really be bothered debating.

I'm going to make sure and quote this post when making my case for Lesnar going over Jeff Hardy. Thanks for calling him inferior and saying that Lesnar would "stand a chance" against Shawn Michaels where Jeff Hardy wouldn't. That'll be sure to help make sure Lesnar moves on.

I thought someone would bring that match up, makes me laugh actually. What will happen here, has nothing to do with a match where the winner was pre-determined by McMahon in order to give Jeff Hardy a nice little rub. It was Triple H's job, but yano..

I laughed. "That match was scripted." Bex, this is professional wrestling. Every single match is scripted, save for the one that Sam reminded us of.

Lol, he wishes. I think I said Shawn will win either, just that Hardy will be easier competition for him. I'm a huge Lesnar fan, and he can't be underestimated.

Too bad he's going out to Liger.

Stop making my life harder and vote Hardy . I agree with you, I'm not going to attempt saying I think Hardy could win this if it actually happened. I just want him to, haha.

You really are a piss poor debater. Thanks for the second quote.

Seriously? I saw much tougher competition in Lynn, where the same thing was said. I'm not a big Liger fan and have seen nothing from him that will cause Shawn any trouble.

Again, you're horrible at debating. You've just shown that you know very little about Jushin Liger. He's faster, more agile, has a larger moveset (All of which he will be able to utilize against Shawn, as Tdigs pointed out.), equally strong (He powerbombed Samoa Joe.), can transform into Kishin Liger, etc. I could go on and on about what Liger can do better or as well as Shawn can, and I am a huge Shawn Michaels fan.

The match would be great, there's no doubt about it. And yes Lesnar has a chance here. But that's all. Shawn is the better competitor in every section except maybe strength, and I think ECW works better for Shawn than it does Lesnar.

Did you say "maybe" strength? Lesnar is ten times as strong as Michaels. I'd go as far as saying that he is the strongest wrestler ever. Sam already listed what else Lesnar is better at. In case you missed it:

Lesnar is faster, more agile, stronger, smarter, better at submissions, better at striking, better at mat wrestling, better at throws, more vicious, more malicious, less forgiving and better at many other things than Michaels. Not to mention he has infinitely better stamina and endurance. And this is Michaels in his prime I'm comparing him to.

Shit, Brock is even younger. It's not a fixed timeline, yet that's a certainty.

And why does E.C.W. work better for Shawn? Lesnar can swing weapons harder and take more shots from chairs.[/QUOTE]

I legit LOL'd. Anyway, this is true. Hence why I haven't really used the results of any matches as arguments. Quite simply because it's pointless. I've used matches where I feel Shawn has displayed characteristics which show he could handle it in the ECW region, but the winner of them is a different story altogether and it needs to be remembered that the winners are chosen not because of their performance in a match but because it's the best thing to continue a storyline or to help a wrestler establish himself.

It doesn't matter how someone wins. Hell, Hulk Hogan was one of the worst ever in the ring, but he's won more matches than anyone. Shawn could wrestle the most beautiful match of his career against Lesnar, but it doesn't change the fact that he'd be put down in the end by the F-5.

 

[NSL]

What are the gimmick options, anyway?

In Round 4, it's up to Shocky, I believe. In Round 5, ECW's gimmick options are Barbwire match, and Three Stages Of Hell.

WWE - Ladder Match & HIAC
WCW - Iron Man & Triple Cage (I believe)
TNA - Monster's Ball and Ultimate X

 

[HBK-aholic]

I'm going to make sure and quote this post when making my case for Lesnar going over Jeff Hardy. Thanks for calling him inferior and saying that Lesnar would "stand a chance" against Shawn Michaels where Jeff Hardy wouldn't. That'll be sure to help make sure Lesnar moves on.

It's called giving credit to an opponent. Lesnar is a great wrestler and it wouldn't be an easy match. Shawn could still do it though.

I laughed. "That match was scripted." Bex, this is professional wrestling. Every single match is scripted, save for the one that Sam reminded us of.

But, McMahon isn't scripting them now, is he? Hence why we can only use the talent in the matches, as opposed to the result. There have been plenty of matches were the best man in the match hasn't won.

Too bad he's going out to Liger.

Lynn was tougher competition.

You really are a piss poor debater. Thanks for the second quote.

*Yawn* First of all, people only say something like that when they have nothing else to say. Second of all, I'm clearly joking, hence the laughing smilie.. I'm voting Lesnar because he's the better wrestler, at the end of the day.

Again, you're horrible at debating.

See: Above point.

You've just shown that you know very little about Jushin Liger. He's faster, more agile, has a larger moveset (All of which he will be able to utilize against Shawn, as Tdigs pointed out.), equally strong (He powerbombed Samoa Joe.), can transform into Kishin Liger, etc.

He's not faster and is not more agile. Plus, *Waits for Slyfox to say the amount of moves someone can do doesn't matter*.

I could go on and on about what Liger can do better or as well as Shawn can, and I am a huge Shawn Michaels fan.

But anything to go against a mod, of course .

Did you say "maybe" strength? Lesnar is ten times as strong as Michaels. I'd go as far as saying that he is the strongest wrestler ever. Sam already listed what else Lesnar is better at. In case you missed it:

Which I'll debate with Sam if I like .

And why does E.C.W. work better for Shawn? Lesnar can swing weapons harder and take more shots from chairs.

Yet I see no proof of that.

It doesn't matter how someone wins. Hell, Hulk Hogan was one of the worst ever in the ring, but he's won more matches than anyone. Shawn could wrestle the most beautiful match of his career against Lesnar, but it doesn't change the fact that he'd be put down in the end by the F-5.

Undertakers tombstone is better than Lesnars F5, and Shawn has shown no problem kicking out of that before.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

It's called giving credit to an opponent. Lesnar is a great wrestler and it wouldn't be an easy match. Shawn could still do it though.



But, McMahon isn't scripting them now, is he? Hence why we can only use the talent in the matches, as opposed to the result. There have been plenty of matches were the best man in the match hasn't won.



Lynn was tougher competition.



*Yawn* First of all, people only say something like that when they have nothing else to say. Second of all, I'm clearly joking, hence the laughing smilie.. I'm voting Lesnar because he's the better wrestler, at the end of the day.



See: Above point.



He's not faster and is not more agile. Plus, *Waits for Slyfox to say the amount of moves someone can do doesn't matter*.



But anything to go against a mod, of course .



Which I'll debate with Sam if I like .



Yet I see no proof of that.



Undertakers tombstone is better than Lesnars F5, and Shawn has shown no problem kicking out of that before.

If you think you are a good debater, then give me reasons as to why Lynn was a tougher challenge. Also, telling people "Yawn" in response to what they have to say is not really helping your case whatsoever. If anything, it makes you look like you have no idea what you are talking about in regards to anything other than Shawn Michaels.

If your attitude remains the same, then I'm thinking this match-up will be something like the Russo-Japanese War, with Shawn Michaels playing the role of Russia, the complacent, cocky, but admittedly formidable power who underestimated Japan (played by Liger), the ambitious, hard-working, but admittedly relatively unknown group of islands in the Far East that would make a name for itself on the international scene by winning a war that it had no business winning (I think it should be obvious by now what country it was that was upset in this war).

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Shawn Michaels will have his hands full with Liger. Liger is faster, stronger, and I believe better than HBK. Don't get me wrong, HBK will go down as one of the all-time greats but I have never found him that appealing in the ring. He's considerably smaller than everybody he faces but his determination and resolve is what gets him through most of those matches. His offense is weak and aside from an attempted crossface, Figure Four, and Sweet Chin Music, I don't see anything that will take down Liger. I see it being a great 30-minute match but HBK will go down at the end.

If HBK advances, he will have Lesnar waiting for him and that will be a completely different ballgame. One SCM may not be enough to take Lesnar down and if he tries a second one, most likely Brock will catch his leg and counter it into a F-5.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Here's what it is. Liger's better than Shawn, but Shawn will win. Why? Because people know who HBK is. Only a handful of people know who Liger is. So we can debate all the movesets and finishers and stipulations all day and night. HBK advances because people know who he is.

Lesnar is the single scariest person in this tournament. Period. Jeff Hardy will be very little match for the Next Big Thing.

And what's sad is that Lesnar is a freak of nature, and HBK is as cagey as they get. He's chopped up big men before, but none as agile and freakishly strong as Brock. Plus you're getting weapons involved. Throws a wrench in the technical wrestling department.

Long story short. Lesnar should win. HBK WILL win. Why? HBK is the 'sexy' pick and someone will rationalize having HBK beating Lesnar and be convincing enough to sway the votes. I vote Lesnar. Period.