Flair Region, Memphis Subregion, First Round: (13) Ted DiBiase vs. (20) Jeff Jarrett

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the Flair Region, Memphis Subregion. It is a standard one on one match. It will be held at the FexEx Forum in Memphis, Tennessee.

#13. Ted DiBiase

Vs.

#20. Jeff Jarrett

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

I don't hold either wrestler very high when it comes to pure wrestling accomplishments. Jeff Jarrett and Ted Debiase are mid card wrestlers who were lucky to even get that high IMO. I'll give it to Jeff Jarrett for his feud with Kurt Angle in TNA. Jeff wins after the ref counts out Ted Debiase who leaves due to lack of interest in the match.

 

[Alex]

People will say that DiBiase should go through because they prefer him. Fact of the matter is Jarrett had more longevity.

Fact of the matter is even if you just use his WWE accomplishments Jarrett has DiBiase beat.

Yes DiBiase has had some memorable feuds and the like but he always came out the loser.

Jarrett may not have won all of his feuds but he certainly won a lot of them.

DiBiase was always better as a manager than wrestler so in the wrestling tournament vote for the better wrestler. The King Of The Mountain

 

[SHAGAMANIA 3:16]

Both are great heel characters but Jeff Jarrett wins with longevity by far.

This is a very interesting match up.

Ted Dibiases career was cut short but Jeff Jarrett when on to create TNA and managed to keep himself relevant throughout the generations.

I choose Jeff Jarrett

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm going to vote DiBiase based on the fact that this is a match on WZ Forums and not a promotion that Jarret can buy and push himself to the top.

Seriously, how many guys were given as many chances as Jarret and failed to get over as the top guy?

 

[NSL]

People will say that DiBiase should go through because they prefer him. Fact of the matter is Jarrett had more longevity.

Would he have had the longevity if 10 years of that weren't spent in his own promotion? Or in another where he or his father had pull?

I'm going to vote DiBiase based on the fact that this is a match on WZ Forums and not a promotion that Jarret can buy and push himself to the top.

Seriously, how many guys were given as many chances as Jarret and failed to get over as the top guy?

Yes. Thank you.

Jarrett isn't the worst guy ever in the ring, but he's one of my least favorite ever, simply because his only time getting "over" was self-produced. He's great as a mid-card heel who occasionally gets a main event match, but that's about it. DiBiase will live on as one of the greatest heels of all-time, and was a damn good ring worker.

 

[The Bearded One]

I have to go with Ted Dibiase here, but I have to admit this one gave me some pause. I feel like Jeff Jarrett is an underrated performer and deserves more respect than he gets, but Dibiase is one of the biggest and best heels of all time. His heel work as The Million Dollar Man is incredible. The famous basketball skit alone is so far and beyond anything Jarrett could ever dream of doing. Dibiase was named the best heel in 1987 and 1988 b the Wrestling Observer Newsletter. Say what you will about Dave Meltzer, but the WON awards do carry some weight.

And Jarrett's lone singles WON award? Most Overrated in 2005. Dibiase should win this round, but it should be a lot closer than many people think.

 

[Alex]

Would he have had the longevity if 10 years of that weren't spent in his own promotion? Or in another where he or his father had pull?



Yes. Thank you.

Jarrett isn't the worst guy ever in the ring, but he's one of my least favorite ever, simply because his only time getting "over" was self-produced. He's great as a mid-card heel who occasionally gets a main event match, but that's about it. DiBiase will live on as one of the greatest heels of all-time, and was a damn good ring worker.

As I said before if you just go off his WWE career Jarrett has more impressive accolades compared to DiBiase. Sure he wasn't world champion but he had some good IC reigns and tag reigns. And in the attitude era there was no shortage of people who could fill that role he must have been doing something right.

 

[NSL]

As I said before if you just go off his WWE career Jarrett has more impressive accolades compared to DiBiase. Sure he wasn't world champion but he had some good IC reigns and tag reigns. And in the attitude era there was no shortage of people who could fill that role he must have been doing something right.

Jarrett was gone by the time the Attitude Era started. The timeframe where he was competing in the midcard and holding the tag belts, were the dark days of the 90s for WWF. I don't know if the tag division now is even as weak as it was then.

And even as IC champ, and as the Smoky Mountain champ, defending his belt on WWF TV, he had some of the most bland matches and promos. To me, his greatest accomplishment in WWF was getting the Road Dogg over.

 

[enviousdominous]

I'm going with my gut on this one, but there is some logic to my choice.

In terms of wrestling ability, I think that these two men are even. Neither man has ever had a devastating finisher, both men seem very "by the numbers" when it comes to performing in the ring. If I had to vote on ring psychology alone, I'd say that it's too close to call.

I'm not feeling any arguments on behalf of longevity; was Jeff ever going to fire himself?

I'm going with who I respect more as a performer, and that is Ted DiBiase.

I remember Jeff Jarrett dropping a pipe bomb when he returned to the WWF to do the NWA revival angle. His rant was entertaining, until he started talking about how he was the only person on the roster who could keep the WWF going and that the amount he was paid to come over was evidence of that. Notice how that part of his career is also one of the most forgettable, so his logic was a bit off. I think the most humble thing Jeff ever did was drop the belt to Chyna even though he wasn't contractually obligated to do so, but I also understand that he was paid $250,000 for that one match.

Ted DiBiase never went on a rant about how awesome he is or how he was screwed out of the world title (which he kind of was). To his credit, he was also fleshing out the gimmick of a rich man who says "everyone has a price" while he was in Mid-South.

When I look at Ted's history vs Jeff's history, I know that I would be cheering for Ted DiBiase to win this one. My vote is for Ted DiBiase.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

People will say that DiBiase should go through because they prefer him. Fact of the matter is Jarrett had more longevity.

True. Jarrett's competed for 30 years (since 1986). Dibiase only went half that time (mid-70's to early 90's). Dibiase of course, had his career cut short by a severe neck injury, although I fail to see why that should be held against him? Or why the fact that Jarrett competed longer is a point for him (half of it working for himself... but still)

Funny fact of the matter though. According to wrestlingdata... in half the time, Dibiase actually worked more matches than Jarrett (2,743 to 2,380).

Maybe that explains the longevity? He just wasn't as hard of a worker?

Fact of the matter is even if you just use his WWE accomplishments Jarrett has DiBiase beat.

Fact of the matter, if you just compare Mid-South accomplishments then Dibiase has Jarrett beat (if you want to cherry pick). Because you're comparing apples to oranges.

But if you want to compare WWE accomplishments...

- did Jarrett ever main event Wrestlemania? Because Dibiase did.
- was Jarrett ever a focal point of the highest rated show in company history? Because Dibiase was.
- was Jarrett ever involved in an angle that was considered the top angle in the company, and one that 30 years later, is still considered one of the biggest and best ever run? Because Dibiase was.

But Double J got to introduce WWE fans to the Fargo strut and reside over the IC title during the time it began to become devalued. Yeah, he's got him beat.

Yes DiBiase has had some memorable feuds and the like but he always came out the loser.

Jarrett may not have won all of his feuds but he certainly won a lot of them.

Funny thing is, I have a hard time remembering many of Jarrett's feuds. Dibiase's though? I don't have that problem, which tells me that Dibiase did his job far better than Jarrett did.

DiBiase was always better as a manager than wrestler so in the wrestling tournament vote for the better wrestler. The King Of The Mountain

Seriously?

Jeff Jarrett would have a hard time calling himself a better wrestler than Ted Dibiase.

In the early 80's there were many in the NWA that wanted Ted Dibiase to be their long term champion, not Ric Flair. Dibiase was the main antagonist for the WWE during a time when they were doing some of their best business ever. Jarrett was A main antagonist for WCW during it's dying days, when people had a hard time buying the fact that this career WWE mid-carder was supposed to be considered the best in that company. And he was a main antagonist in a company he owned and pushed himself as because he could trust that he'd never leave unlike anyone else. A company that was never considered more than a blip on the overall radar of the business.

Dibiase was the better wrestler by far. He was the more important wrestler. He's got the greater legacy. He should easily win this one.

 

[Coco]

Jarrett's a multi-time world champion. And he's a shameless self-promoter. And he's a perennial underachiever. And I fully concede that those last two risk trumping the first one.

But he's still better than Ted DiBiase. DiBiase had an utterly a forgettable run from which I remember only two things: Maryse looking hot as his valet, and Daniel Bryan beating him at Survivor Series 2010. I have no idea how this never-was is seeded so high in this tournament.

Jarrett may have booked himself to most of his biggest accomplishments. But at least he has accomplishments.

I vote Jarrett.

 

[tdmoon]

Jarrett's a multi-time world champion. And he's a shameless self-promoter. And he's a perennial underachiever. And I fully concede that those last two risk trumping the first one.

But he's still better than Ted DiBiase. DiBiase had an utterly a forgettable run from which I remember only two things: Maryse looking hot as his valet, and Daniel Bryan beating him at Survivor Series 2010. I have no idea how this never-was is seeded so high in this tournament.

Jarrett may have booked himself to most of his biggest accomplishments. But at least he has accomplishments.

I vote Jarrett.

I believe you are referring to the wrong Dibiase. The one in this tournament was long retired by 2010.

 

[Sai the Uganda Guy]

The Million Dollar Man is much better a wrestler than Double J, who is nothing more than a mark for himself. Yes, he had his world titles in WCW, but that was when they were already heading full speed to the iceberg that would sink their Titanic. DiBiase's feuds are more memorable than what Jarrett has done, to include the times when he put the strap on himself in TNA.
Vote DiBiase.

 

[Bernkastel]

Quality over quantity here. Ted Dibiase was never a world champion, while Jeff Jarrett is a multiple time world champion that was never world champion caliber to begin with. As upper mid carders Ted had far better consistency and had title runs that meant something. Jarrett is known for losing the IC title to a woman while Dibiase created his own championship and made it mean something.

Call me biased but I don't see Jeff has being on the same level as the Million Dollar Man.

Edit: Yeah so I looked the location. It's in Memphis and there's a strong possibly that Jarrett would go over. Fuck it. Still voted for Dibiase.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Fuck Jarrett, he could be against Duane Gill in this match and I wouldn't vote just because I absolutely refuse to vote for the guy. He's a guy who does everything ok but doesn't really excel at anything, he can't draw despite putting himself on top for years on end and I just found the guy extremely boring to watch pretty much consistently since '99.

Dibiase on the other hand is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. He was very successful in WWE and Mid South, he had one of the most iconic characters of all time and to this day I still find it hilarious he had his own personal slave in Virgil (bodyguard my ASS!). Dibiase had more talent in his pinky finger than Jeff could ever dream of and to be perfectly honest I'm a mark for the guy.

Vote Dibiase.

 

[nightmare]

Jarrett means more to the history of wrestling. Ted was pretty good as a heel, but unfortunately never won a lot of gold. Regardless of if you agree with how he booked himself in TNA, the guy had titles outside of there. Plus running a promotion for as long as he did is a big deal. People give credit to Gagne for essentially doing the same thing as they give Jarrett shit for.

This one goes to Jarrett. TNA may be a shell of itself now, but it was pretty good for a while. Ted was a great wrestler & had some memorable moments, but his career resume as a whole isnt as accomplished as Jeff.

 

[Bernkastel]

Jarrett means more to the history of wrestling. Ted was pretty good as a heel, but unfortunately never won a lot of gold. Regardless of if you agree with how he booked himself in TNA, the guy had titles outside of there. Plus running a promotion for as long as he did is a big deal. People give credit to Gagne for essentially doing the same thing as they give Jarrett shit for.

This one goes to Jarrett. TNA may be a shell of itself now, but it was pretty good for a while. Ted was a great wrestler & had some memorable moments, but his career resume as a whole isnt as accomplished as Jeff.

The difference between Gagne and Jarrett is that the AWA was not only credible in the eyes of fans but was a major financial hotbed for several strong years. TNA has been... significantly less than that. Being a world champion on paper just isn't enough. Jack Swagger is a former world champion. Is he better than Ted Dibiase? No. Miz is a former world champion who main evented Wrestlemania and defeated John Cena. Is he better than Ted Dibiase? Arguably no.

Let's analyze Jeff Jarrett's world title wins and reigns...

Four of them came during the dying days of WCW and he spent a total combined 11 days as champion. That's just sad.

Six others came from when the NWA title was unified with TNA during the promotion's early days. While he had several good runs was he really that strong of a draw for the company? Not really since he dropped off as soon as Sting and Angle joined the company. Jarrett never once held the TNA world title. I find that odd. If he was such an important figure surely he would have held it at least once.

 

[nightmare]

So you are taking points away from the guy because he stepped aside to give bigger stars a spotlight?

And comparing Swagger and Miz to DiBiase is beneath you, even if you are over exaggerating your point. I get that he deserves credit, but you are also undercutting Jarrett on some of his.

TNA for a good time is what NXT is now. Before it became a running joke, that company was the #2 in the US. The AWA may have been a bigger deal, but Gagne was still doing what Jarrett did. What he did took balls & for a time it worked great. The aftermath is more Dixies fault than Jarretts.


Bigger resume should trump the smaller one, even if DiBiase was a better heel.

 

[Tastycles]

Jarrett is the guy that both WCW and WWF let leave during the time when they were warring. Jarrett clearly thought he was a far more valuable asset than he really was. Vince McMahon absolutely burying him on the simulcast episode of Nitro is arguably the funniest thing Vince has ever done. DiBiase is overrated and his legacy is overstated, but I just think by any discernible measure of talent, he's better than Jeff Jarrett.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Jarrett means more to the history of wrestling. Ted was pretty good as a heel, but unfortunately never won a lot of gold. Regardless of if you agree with how he booked himself in TNA, the guy had titles outside of there. Plus running a promotion for as long as he did is a big deal. People give credit to Gagne for essentially doing the same thing as they give Jarrett shit for.

This one goes to Jarrett. TNA may be a shell of itself now, but it was pretty good for a while. Ted was a great wrestler & had some memorable moments, but his career resume as a whole isnt as accomplished as Jeff.

On the surface, you're absolutely right.

• Gagne owned his company and booked himself on top of it for years.
  
• Jarrett owned his own company and booked himself on top of it for years.

If that's as deep as you look, then absolutely they did the exact same thing. However, as is usually the case with anything, there's a lot more happening beneath the surface.

Both men booked themselves on top to a degree because they could count on themselves being there for bookings more than anyone else. For Gagne though, since he lived in an age that didn't have guaranteed contracts, this was a greater concern. Not the greatest concern mind you, because anyone pulling a double cross or skipping out on bookings always ran the risk of never being able to work again... but it did happen.

Another point is that for Gagne... it worked. People wanted to see him, and bought him as a great champion. Even when he'd venture outside the AWA (as everyone did back then), he was still a major draw. Gagne was a very rich man, and he was rich because he owned a very successful company. He cared more about that than the fake glory of being the appointed champion of a wrestling company, and if he wasn't making money as champ, then someone else would have been.

Proof of that would be how he booked his son Greg... who talent wise, is probably pretty comparable to Jeff Jarrett ironically enough (Jeff had a far better look though). People never bought Greg as anything more than a mid card act, so unlike many promoters who would still force themselves/their kids down the fans throats as top guys... Gagne booked his son where he belonged on the card, because otherwise his business wouldn't have been as successful as it could be. Even in the dying days of the AWA, when they had very little left and the writing was on the wall, he still didn't even give Greg as much as a token run with the belt, opting instead to go with more credible champions.

If Gagne was booking himself on top just because, then he would have done the same for his son. The fact that he didn't, should show that he had other, more legitimate reasons for booking himself on top.

Compare that to Jarrett, who did step aside to a degree once Angle and Sting came in. He still booked himself as a top guy. Anytime I watched TNA in fact, he seemed like he was booking himself as a guy that was so good, he was above the title. TNA was never gaining steam, yet he kept himself on top. Everywhere else he worked in his career that was successful while he was there, he was strictly a mid card act.

There's your deeper than the surface comparison. He didn't do exactly what Gagne did, and there is a reason Gagne gets more credit than Jarrett.

As for the 'means more to history' and 'greater resume' than Dibiase? Let's ignore kayfabe titles for a second, and look at real accomplishments.

Dibiase

• Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame
• St. Louis Wrestling Hall of Fame
• WWE Hall of Fame
• Ranked #32 of the top 500 of the PWI Years
• WON - Best Gimmick
• WON - Best Heel (x2)
• WON - Best Technical Wrestler
• WON - Feud of the Year (x2 - JYD and Duggan)
• WON Hall of Fame

Jarrett

• TNA Hall of Fame
• WON Feud of the Year (w/Lawler vs the Moondogs)
• WON Most Overrated Wrestler
• Ranked #141 of the top 500 of the PWI Years

Do you still want to say that Jarrett has the better resume and is more important to history?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

For me, this is a bout between someone who should never have been a World Champion and, arguably, the best to have never been a World Champion.

Jeff Jarrett is someone who always struck me as a very solid, strong mid-card wrestler who was mistakenly elevated to the level of main eventer. By the time he was WCW WHC, the company was circling the drain and its quality was pretty much extinct and his next World Championship runs came in TNA, the company he co-founded and initially owned. Ted DiBiase was one of my favorite characters as a kid, he was such a fun, charismatic heel that was easy to dislike and root against.

This would be a pretty decent match, Jarrett was the more athletic of the two while DiBiase struck me as the better technician and was the cagier of the two. Still, it can be said that at least Jarrett was a World Champion whereas DiBiase wasn't. In terms of accomplishments, Jarrett has the stronger argument but, for sheer entertainment value, I'm going with DiBiase.

 

[nightmare]

I get that Gagne was better than Jarrett in ring & had a better promotion for his time, but that doesnt change he handled things similarly with booking himself. Anyone with their own promotion and a shred of ability in ring would do the same.


As far as this match goes, yes Jarrett has more on his resume. Regardless of how he booked himself, the guy was given titles by other promoters who did not share a family name. Multiple titles in fact & more than Ted got. People may have gotten tired of him or he was no longer needed due to bigger stars being around, but the fact remains he was good enough to be given the titles.

Adding to those accolades, the guy has started two different promotions in an attempt to give the business new life outside of the WWE empire. Global isnt likely to amount to much, but it gives another place for guys to work. TNA was a big enough deal to be considered the closest credible challenger to Vince's throne & has had some huge names work there. That cannot be dismissed as a big deal just because of the decline it has seen over the last few years. For that alone, career wise & for the wrestling business, it is bigger than what Ted has done.


I love DiBiase. Great fucking heel. Solid worker. Good enough to have Hansen ask to work with him personally. All that does not change the facts that he is a step down from someone who has had more big name titles & ran a thriving promotion. DiBiase is a legend & his tag team stuff with IRS and Hansen were great, but at the end of the day his biggest named titles won came from territories, not the big stage. He bought a WWF title reign in kayfabe & other than that, he had to make his own title when they came up with the Million Dollar belt idea. Jarrett has held over 70 titles in his career including major ones from WCW, TNA/NWA & AAA to go with his numerous WWF IC reigns and some tag titles.

That seems to me like the numbers dont lie. Vote for Ted based on personal taste if you want. I cant blame you for that because he was good. Jeff gets my vote just based on the facts. More titles & running a solid promotion gives the guy the edge.

 

[OYDK]

These two are almost like carbon copies of each other. Both wrestle the same basic formulaic style in the ring while excelling on the mic, both were heels for the majority of their careers, and both have rather ambiguous legacies in wrestling history. Reading the comments I really am split. It seems like most people don't want to vote for Jarrett because they personally dislike him but side by side, these guys have pretty comparable careers. Arguably, Jarrett's had a better one. Arguably, a much better one.

That being said, Dibiase was somebody that I felt underachieved in his career and undoubtedly should have had at least one decent run with the title before retiring. I'm going to go with Dibiase. Jarrett dominates the match, gets caught with a role up while strutting like a jackass. Memphis crowd goes crazy. Ironically, if this weren't in Memphis I'd probably have gone with Double J.

 

[justtxyank]

Jarrett is the guy that both WCW and WWF let leave during the time when they were warring. Jarrett clearly thought he was a far more valuable asset than he really was. Vince McMahon absolutely burying him on the simulcast episode of Nitro is arguably the funniest thing Vince has ever done. DiBiase is overrated and his legacy is overstated, but I just think by any discernible measure of talent, he's better than Jeff Jarrett.

Jarrett was gone by the time the Attitude Era started. The timeframe where he was competing in the midcard and holding the tag belts, were the dark days of the 90s for WWF. I don't know if the tag division now is even as weak as it was then.

And even as IC champ, and as the Smoky Mountain champ, defending his belt on WWF TV, he had some of the most bland matches and promos. To me, his greatest accomplishment in WWF was getting the Road Dogg over.

Some bad information in here.

First of all, Jarrett was with the WWF during the attitude era. He returned to the WWF in late 1997 and was there through late 99. He also wasn't "let go" by WCW. His father had a strong relationship with Vince McMahon at the time and brought him over. The reason he left in 99 is because Vince Russo had jumped to WCW, someone he was close with and that he knew wanted to push him as a main eventer. In the WWF he was never going to get to play in the main event because of a personal grudge carried by Austin. He was being pushed though as one of the focal points of the upper mid card. His stuff with Debra as the abusive male was a top heat draw for the company and was why Vince Russo wanted to give him a run with Austin to begin with.

Jeff Jarrett is underrated now because McMahon buried him due to anger over Jarrett holding him up for extra money to do the Chyna job and because of TNA and all the stink that goes with it.

Jarrett was never a great main eventer, but he was certainly a great upper mid card guy that could float into the main event and be credible. He should not have the title reigns that he has had, but he was still good.

HOWEVA...

Ted DiBiase was a top heel for the golden era of the WWF. I don't care that he doesn't have the titles. Jarrett's legacy is more important to history only because he started a promotion after the death of WCW. As a WRESTLER, DiBiase's legacy is definitely more important to history.