Has Creationism been disproven?

[Hazardous]

I know this is normally a Cigar Lounge type topic, but it's 2am, and I couldn't be bothered to type out a big OP.
After getting told I'm "going to burn in hell" by some woman in a coffee shop, for talking to a friend about a show on the Discovery channel on the beginning of the earth. I was wondering if there are still people around that still believe in Creationism, over all the scientific discoveries of the past 100 years.

Remember, this is not the Bar Room, so no flamming.

 

[Alex]

You could argue that, but then people could argue that the way things came to be (Big Bang etc) were created by a higher being so you're back to square one.

 

[Hazardous]

LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.
In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.
"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Not necessarily. I mean, isn't it a bit like the whole "Everything revolves around the Earth" theory? People were killed for saying the Earth was not the center of the universe. Until science proved the old way of thinking wrong.

 

[Lee]

Even Science is doubting the big bang was the start.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I know this is normally a Cigar Lounge type topic, but it's 2am, and I couldn't be bothered to type out a big OP.
After getting told I'm "going to burn in hell" by some woman in a coffee shop, for talking to a friend about a show on the Discovery channel on the beginning of the earth. I was wondering if there are still people around that still believe in Creationism, over all the scientific discoveries of the past 100 years.

Remember, this is not the Bar Room, so no flamming.

I think you answered your own question there, champ.

 

[Hazardous]

I think you answered your own question there, champ.

Again, it was 2am.. knew the outcome of that wouldn't fully make sense. I guess besides that one really bitchy woman. Like, if anyone from a more recent generation.

 

[Loveless]

You can't disprove pure concept or philosophy, you can only argue, ignore or dismiss it. I choose the latter.

 

[Chess]

I would rather believe that God created the universe and everything in it than thinking two random atoms appeared from nowhere collided and created everything that worked to perfection. Either way it is a form of faith, science has not proven or disproven God and it never will. Not even Steven freaking Hawkin with all his genius could help you out here as he is only voicing an opinion, perhaps he is just mad he is stuck in the confines of a wheelchair and therefore would rather try and dispove God than be permenantly pissed at him.

 

[bigandpissed]

I personally don't believe in creationism (FYI im an atheist), because what they say in the bible doesn't match up with the fossil record. In the bible it said god created earth and then god created man. according to that logic, that means humans would have been around while dinosaurs roamed the earth, which according to all the evidence we discovered is simply not true.

 

[Remix]

No it hasn't. Allow me to show why with the following simulated conversation between a creationist and a non-creationist.

"What a rediculous belief creationism is"

It's not rediculous belief at all. In fact I believe it. It's no more irrational than a singularity that exists for no reason, spontaneously expanding for no reason, creating all of the intricate scientific rules that govern the universe in a fraction of a milisecond

Really? How do you explain the big bang?

God caused it to happen.

What about the creation of stars and planets. Astrophysicists unanimously believe that took longer than six days.

The "creation of the world/universe in seven days" were a metaphor designed to show time passing in a way people in the old testament could understand. The "days" mentioned in Genesis could have been any length of time in reality. A week is easily understandable to people, a million years isn't.

What about evolution? Surely that disproves god made humans.

Evolution was his tool to make us. That's why he "made" animals first. The universe is too big to micromanage like that.

Uhh but where did God come from then?

He always existed. Where did the singularity that would become the universe come from?

No further questions.

tl;dr creationism is no more inherently flawed than any other theory about how the universe came into being, depending on how rigidly you interpret Genesis.

 

[JGlass]

tl;dr creationism is no more inherently flawed than any other theory about how the universe came into being, depending on how rigidly you interpret Genesis.

This form of interpretation of the Bible is done by people to justify their own beliefs. Furthermore, the evolutionist in your conversation was a really shitty debater, because he should know that the burden of proof is on the creationist to prove creationism, not he to disprove it.

Fact of the matter is that there's overwhelming evidence that evolution occurred, and it's a widely accepted theory that the Big Bang created the universe as we know it, once again accepted due to scientific evidence and reasoning. The only evidence we have for creation as described in the Old Testament is... well, the Old Testament. There are a few pseudo-scientists that have claimed to find other things that prove God created the world, but all of them can be and have been explained by science.

 

[Smooth Sexual Chocolate]

Evolution 4 life.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Creationism has not been disproved. The closest science will ever get to "disproving" it is coming up with extremely likely theories, supported by evidence, that are testable.

Or if they somehow come up with time travel.

You know what else that can never be disproved? The existence of Santa Claus. Or Unicorns. Or ghosts. Creationism, as well as these others things, doesn't have a dichotomy (if I may) to disprove it. I really wish Creationists would stop latching onto that fact as if its inability to be disprove it somehow makes it correct.

 

[Coco]

Yeah, I can see a lot of good coming of this.

 

[HBK-aholic]

One part I've never understood is how people so intent on believing creationism always use 'Well you can't create something out of nothing' or 'Where did that first particle come from?'. Yet, whenever it's asked where God comes from, or how he exists, they're perfectly happy to give a bullshit answer such as 'He always existed'.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not 100% religious either. I have doubts, and I have many questions. I don't think any of the current theories are the truth in regards to the start of the Universe, but people on both sides sometimes are so ridiculous and disrespectful.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

One part I've never understood is how people so intent on believing creationism always use 'Well you can't create something out of nothing' or 'Where did that first particle come from?'. Yet, whenever it's asked where God comes from, or how he exists, they're perfectly happy to give a bullshit answer such as 'He always existed'.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not 100% religious either. I have doubts, and I have many questions. I don't think any of the current theories are the truth in regards to the start of the Universe, but people on both sides sometimes are so ridiculous and disrespectful.

It's a lot easier for Christians to say "magic" because that's literally the premise of their ancient scripture. It's also one of the reasons why Christians think they can have an intelligent debate with someone who "believes" (beginning to hate that word) in science. They try to argue what's observable in the natural world with something supernatural. Until scientists can go to heaven and make scientific observations, then creationism will never be disproved.

Of course, creationists will disregard the entire argument and give out a Palin-esque "A-HA!"

 

[Remix]

This form of interpretation of the Bible is done by people to justify their own beliefs.

And yet people do just that. Interpret the bible in a way that makes sence to them. In the hands on one man The Bible can be used to justify ethnic clensing (see: The Spanish Inquisition) and in the hands of another it can be be about peace and tollerance (See: both Martin Luther Kings). Also, scientists can be christians/religious without being christian scientists (i.e. the ones who do science wrong to "prove" the bible "right"). I'm not one, but I am friends with some.

Furthermore, the evolutionist in your conversation was a really shitty debater, because he should know that the burden of proof is on the creationist to prove creationism, not he to disprove it.

Clearly then, JGlass you missed the point.

Fact of the matter is that there's overwhelming evidence that evolution occurred, and it's a widely accepted theory that the Big Bang created the universe as we know it, once again accepted due to scientific evidence and reasoning. The only evidence we have for creation as described in the Old Testament is... well, the Old Testament.

Guess which one I don't believe in (hint: it's not the two with testable data)

There are a few pseudo-scientists that have claimed to find other things that prove God created the world, but all of them can be and have been explained by science.

That's not what makes them pseudo scientists. Them having their answer ready made (i.e. the bible) and then looking for evidence that supports their belief and discounting evidence that doesn't is what makes them pseudoscientists, because they're doing the exact wrong thing and dressing it up as real science.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

It's a conspiracy. Gosh-danged libburals....

 

[ABMorales787]

Creationism? Is that what the kids are calling it now?

 

[LSN80]

Id put this in Potluck myself.

 

[LSN80]

This form of interpretation of the Bible is done by people to justify their own beliefs. Furthermore, the evolutionist in your conversation was a really shitty debater, because he should know that the burden of proof is on the creationist to prove creationism, not he to disprove it.

How else would you intepret the Bible other then literally if you were a believer? The Bible states that God spoke, and the world came into existance. Obviously, there's no proof in here, but its a theory that many people hold onto, and its yet to be disproven. If a creationist scientist is making such claims, then the burden of proof is obviously on them. But it is on the evolutionist as well, and there's yet to be rock solid, 100% proof that the world came into existance by a big bang. People will argue that the the idea of a God who was always there is silly, but the idea that matter and people essentially appeared out of nowhere is just as preposterous. Fossil evidence has shown that creatures have evolved over time, but where did these fossils come from? Natural selection shows similar theories, but theyre just that, theories.

One part I've never understood is how people so intent on believing creationism always use 'Well you can't create something out of nothing' or 'Where did that first particle come from?'. Yet, whenever it's asked where God comes from, or how he exists, they're perfectly happy to give a bullshit answer such as 'He always existed'.

The argument is that he always is, was, and always will be. Because he's a higher power, he's capable of more then human comprehension. I understand that it sounds like hocus pocus abracadapra, and its a hard concept for me to grasp. But the truth is you can't create something out of nothing. The idea of a higher power that always was and will be is easier, and frankly simpler, for many people to believe.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not 100% religious either. I have doubts, and I have many questions. I don't think any of the current theories are the truth in regards to the start of the Universe, but people on both sides sometimes are so ridiculous and disrespectful.

I feel the same way. I despise it when Christian's who believe in creationism automatically shit on another's theory just because it doesnt completely coincide with their own, and the same goes for evolutionists. Im not sure there's a singular truth out there, I think there are several concepts that will likely one day, one way or the other, shown to be true when taken as a whole. I feel the more questions we ask, it helps make us tolerant of others beliefs regarding the subject, and thats the best thing that could possibly happen out of this. Endless debates over which side is right never produces anything but more friction.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

How else would you intepret the Bible other then literally if you were a believer? The Bible states that God spoke, and the world came into existance. Obviously, there's no proof in here, but its a theory that many people hold onto, and its yet to be disproven. If a creationist scientist is making such claims, then the burden of proof is obviously on them. But it is on the evolutionist as well, and there's yet to be rock solid, 100% proof that the world came into existance by a big bang. People will argue that the the idea of a God who was always there is silly, but the idea that matter and people essentially appeared out of nowhere is just as preposterous. Fossil evidence has shown that creatures have evolved over time, but where did these fossils come from? Natural selection shows similar theories, but theyre just that, theories.

Evolution"ists" and people who believe in the Big Bang are not the same people. That being said, evolution has observable, testable evidence to back it up. Creationists have literally nothing. Not one shred of evidence, other than a book that tells them it's true.

The argument is that he always is, was, and always will be. Because he's a higher power, he's capable of more then human comprehension. I understand that it sounds like hocus pocus abracadapra, and its a hard concept for me to grasp. But the truth is you can't create something out of nothing. The idea of a higher power that always was and will be is easier, and frankly simpler, for many people to believe.

That's not a good reason to believe it. It's just intellectually lazy. If you don't know how something happened, just say you don't know how something happened. It doesn't make sense to say, "I don't know how this happened, therefore God did it."

I feel the same way. I despise it when Christian's who believe in creationism automatically shit on another's theory just because it doesnt completely coincide with their own, and the same goes for evolutionists. Im not sure there's a singular truth out there, I think there are several concepts that will likely one day, one way or the other, shown to be true when taken as a whole. I feel the more questions we ask, it helps make us tolerant of others beliefs regarding the subject, and thats the best thing that could possibly happen out of this. Endless debates over which side is right never produces anything but more friction.

Science will come closer to the truth than creationism ever will.

 

[Loveless]

But the truth is you can't create something out of nothing. The idea of a higher power that always was and will be is easier, and frankly simpler, for many people to believe.

How is that any different? They both rely on the idea of something coming from nothing.
For what it's worth the idea I can get my head around the idea of creating something from nothing if you can imagine tearing nothingness apart, what then fills that anti-vacuum is entirely unrestrained, the tiniest most miniscule energy could expand for eternity with nothing to restrain it.
The idea of some magic man in the sky though just appearing, it's illogical to me.

 

[Hazardous]

One part I've never understood is how people so intent on believing creationism always use 'Well you can't create something out of nothing'

I think that part is based on everything people have ever done though. Nothing can be created or destroyed. Only changed.

people on both sides sometimes are so ridiculous and disrespectful.

I agree with this. I mean, I wouldn't say anything bad to her for talking about her beliefs in public, yet I get yelled at for talking about a TV show I'm looking forward to watching. It's a very nasty double standard.

 

[Coco]

Id put this in Potluck myself.

You're the worst.