Int Region, Fourth Round, 3 Stages Of Hell: (1) Undertaker vs. (4) Kurt Angle

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the International Region. It will be a 3 Stages of Hell match. It will be held at the Tokyo Dome in Tokyo, Japan.

Rules: This is a 2/3 Falls match. The first fall is a street fight, the second fall is a cage match which is won by pinfall, submission or escaping the cage, and the third fall is a ladder match.

#1. The Undertaker

Vs.

#4. Kurt Angle


​

This match takes place one week following the third round.

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Davi323]

Well, if we are supposed to judge the wrestlers when they are in their prime, I submit that for the Undertaker, his prime is not a specific year, but rather a specific day. The Undertaker's prime is at Wrestlemania, which would automatically give him the win.

Well, that and the fact that this match is right up the Undertaker's alley.

 

[shattered dreams]

Angle is a wrestling machine. Endurance should give him the advantage here. That advantage is only exacerbated by the last fall being in a match that favors the more agile competitor. Not only that but Taker has to try and climb the ladder after the effects of probably multiple ankle locks. He can do all the sit ups he wants. If he can't stand up, he can't climb the ladder.

 

[Diet Soda]

It's on.

I've been backing Taker throughout this tournament, but up until now he really hasn't had much competition. Now, well... the Deadman's got a battle ahead of him. Angle has defeated Taker in singles matches. Some endings have been a bit fishy (Derek Angle, was it?), but a kayfabe win is a kayfabe win.

Weighing up Kurt Angle, we know he can be a brutal sumbitch when he wants to be. The Olympian is not entirely out of place in a street fight. King of the Ring 2001 vs. Shane McMahon aptly demonstrates this. But Undertaker isn't Shane McMahon. He won't just be thrown around through glass and slammed off of boards. Taker is one of the toughest there is and has incredible stamina. Yes, the Undertaker has notched up plenty of losses, but at the same time has proven he can compete in a hardcore environment.
Angle would have to try and get the early advantage by utilising weapon shots to the legs to ground the Deadman, thereby reducing Taker's chances of doing any climbing in the second 2 falls.
First fall, I feel, goes to Angle. He'll throw everything including the kitchen sink at Taker in the street fight to debase the Phenom. Several chair shots then an Angle Slam through a table.

Down comes the cage.

Now, the Undertaker is synonymous with the Hell in a Cell. Though this is a bog-standard cage, Taker can still rely on his Cell experience. Angle is the kind of wrestler that relies on movement. He'll use all of the ring space and beyond. Confined within the ring with Taker, grounded or not, I think he'll struggle.
Moreover, Angle's record with cages is from stellar. He's won a couple on Raw solely due to interference. He recently lost to Jeff fucking Hardy, which enables Team Taker to use the basic logic that if X defeats Y, and Y defeats Z, then by default, X would inevitably defeat Z. Or something like that. Point is, Taker has pawned Jeff fucking Hardy in the past plenty of times.
Furthermore, does Angle ever hit that moonsault spot?
Second fall goes to Taker; Angle misses moonsault, Tombstone, 1, 2, 3.

Cage goes up, bag of Doritos is suspended 20ft above the ring.

Again, Angle is not exactly a ladder match maestro. He has losses to Anderson and Styles, and only beat Benoit due to interference. Though, the Undertaker does not have a clean sheet in these matches, having lost a TLC to Edge (the very man who helped Angle defeat Benoit in a ladder match, not that it's relevant).
Essentially, neither man here is a ladder technician. Both are bound to be worn out by now and running on fumes. It's a question now of who has the most stamina. Angle has lasted 60 minute Iron Man matches. Most of Taker's greatest matches are over the half-hour mark.
It'll come down to which man can Chokeslam/Angle Slam the other off the ladder whilst they're both on.

My head says Angle but my heart says Taker. I'm torn. I'm going to let this cook for a bit before voting.

 

[Loveless]

It really all hinges on who you believe wins that 2nd match as Taker clearly wins the street fight and Angle clearly wins the ladder match.

Taker Vs Angle in a cage

My feeling is with no interference and nowhere to run for Angle, Taker wins this. I'm open to be convinced though.

 

[shattered dreams]

I'm open to be convinced though.

Has a meaningful 3 stages match ever not made it to the third stage?

Angle is more than capable of winning at least one of the first two stages and then as you accurately state, Angle clearly wins the ladder match. Seems like Angle has somewhere to run in the cage, out the door after he locks the ankle lock on Taker. Are there even rope breaks for submissions in a cage match? Even if there are does it matter because apparently people lose their minds if someone gets DQ'ed in a cage match so they must usually be no DQ.

 

[Tastycles]

The whole point of the Undertaker, at least back in the day, was that he didn't sell offence to any body, so the argument that Angle could "wear him down" is a non-starter. To beat old school Undertaker you had to do something huge, and I don't think Angle has it in him. The street fight is up in the air, because these things often are, but in a cage, Taker would beat Angle for sure. Angle would never be able to get any seperation. The final fall, the ladder, well by now Taker could already have it won, but assuming a fluke win for Angle along the line, I don't think Taker winning the ladder match is unlikely. He famously beat Jeff Hardy, and barring absolute ridiculousness would have beaten Edge in this set up. I'm backing Taker.

 

[The Wrestling God]

I love the argument the Taker' in his prime is not a specific year or gimmick but the day of Wrestlemania.

Though even before that I support Taker in this one like everyone said in terms of kayfabe it goes to the third fall the ladder match. Undertaker has only ever been in one Ladder Match in his career against ladder match specialist Jeff Hardy and he won. Angle has been in 4 and has gone 2-2 winning against Benoit and Mike Haywood and losing to AJ Styles and Mr. Anderson. So angle has the experience but as wrestlemania has shown taker just needs to win once to turn it into a streak

Vote Taker

 

[Diet Soda]

Undertaker has only ever been in one Ladder Match in his career against ladder match specialist Jeff Hardy and he won.

Taker lost a TLC match to Edge at One Night Stand 2008, so he's 1-1.

Unless you're one of those who argue that ladder matches and TLCs are fundamentally different things.

Regardless, vote Taker.

 

[Revy]

I could see this going either way, honestly.

The Undertaker and Kurt Angle have wrestled each other plenty of times before, and I can recall both men having a clean pin on one another at least once ('Taker pinned Angle at Fully Loaded '00; Angle pinned 'Taker at No Way Out '06). Angle has beaten 'Taker via interference, but I'm assuming that's not going to come into play here. And there's been one occasion where 'Taker pinned Angle just as Angle made 'Taker submit, but since this is probably the "Deadman" that's participating in the tournament, the one who doesn't tap, that probably doesn't mean anything either. All their histories really tell me is that both men are capable of pinning the other clean, so that probably means that both Undertaker and Angle will win a match each - making the Ladder Match the deciding factor.

Neither 'Taker nor Angle can really claim to be masters of this type of match. Undertaker has been in one Ladder Match against Jeff Hardy and a TLC Match, which is basically the same thing, against Edge. Both these guys claim the match as a specialty, and 'Taker defeated the former and came close to defeating the latter, losing only because of constant interference via La Familia. So despite not being very familiar with the gimmick, Undertaker has managed to take it to two guys who made their careers out of the Ladder Match, or the very similar TLC Match. In WWE, Kurt Angle's only notable Ladder Match win was a victory over Chris Benoit that he would have lost had Edge and Christian not interfered. I'm not familiar with Angle's work in TNA, but a Wikipedia check tells me that he's had two Ladder Matches there and lost both of them. Neither man is really that proficient with this gimmick, but I'd take the man who's defeated the more experienced Jeff Hardy and nearly defeated the more experienced Edge (again, losing only to ridiculous interference) over the guy who's only been shown to be able to win a Ladder Match if someone else helps him out, or if he's facing a jobber.

I guess one could make the valid point that Angle has the advantage due to being faster and probably having worn down Undertaker through the Ankle Lock in the past two matches. But if we're talking about Undertaker "in his prime", whether that be old-school 'Taker or 'Taker at WrestleMania, then we know that this man is relentless as hell. He'll fight through the pain. And it's not as if Angle is going to be coming into the Ladder Match unscathed either, he'll have been through hell in the first two falls. And while I don't remember him going at it in 60 Minute Iron Matches before, or even a Two out of Three Falls Match, I do know that 'Taker has been quite capable of wrestling 30-50 minutes in the past. I don't think the match length is really going to hurt him here.

So right now, I lean towards Undertaker, but this is one of the more even matches in the tournament.

 

[Bernkastel]

After consideration I'm voting for Undertaker. Both guys have traded televised and PPV victories over each other, and both have proven to have the wherewithall to survive a match like this. I think Angle got a bad draw this round, as Undertaker is the only person left in the region that could've stopped him in this sort of setting.

I see Undertaker dominating the Street Fight and winning it pretty thoroughly. The Cage Match could go either way, and I could see Angle taking it just to add some drama to the story. I see Undertaker winning the Ladder Match after chokeslamming Angle off the top.

None of these matches require allot finesse, the Cage Match involves escaping a cage, the Ladder Match climbing a ladder, and the Street Fight is basically a clusterfuck of a brawl. Both men accel at the first two, but Taker is a better brawler than Angle... that really should be common knowledge. I could easily see Taker handing Angle his ass in a Street Fight.

 

[SD619]

Firstly, it is not necessary that a 3 Stages of Hell go into the third stage. It always has, but there has to be a first time for everything.

Street fight does not give anyone a huge advantage, but Undertaker is a guy that has had many gimmick matches and could easily win with a tombstone on a chair.

I would say that a cage match will favor Undertaker more than Angle because of his HIAC experience. Angle is faster than Undertaker but I highly doubt that he will be able to affect Undertaker enough in order to escape from the cage.

As for the ladder match (if required), Undertaker can easily win it. We are talking about a guy that had his hand fractured and repeatedly assaulted (using a chair) and he still kept throwing right hands at Brock Lesnar. Climbing the ladder after the Ankle lock will be much easier than that.

Winner: The Undertaker

 

[JWGunslinger]

I've gotta go with Undertaker here, considering the street fight and cage match are his style matches and while the final stage with the ladder match is a bit of a toss up Taker could easily take it like he did against Jeff Hardy. Angle does have speed and would use it to his advantage in the cage match and ladder match, but once he's up the ladder all taker has to do is grab the SOB and chokeslam him off. Kurt could try running and getting out of the cell but just ask DDP and Kanyon how that went for them when they started off their match with Taker and Kane by trying to get the hell out of dodge at the sound of the bell, it aint gonna work on a guy like Taker in a match like this where his size cancels out the speed. There's always the possibility of Angle throwing on the Ankle Lock but we've seen Taker fight through injury and pain to win before and I really dont see it being a problem here.

 

[The Brain]

I’m thinking Angle here. Over the years Kurt Angle seems to be the one guy who has had Taker’s number. Angle was a tremendous underdog when he defended the title against Taker at Taker’s ten year anniversary event, Survivor Series 2000. Angle used tremendous creativity and found a way to win. On July 4, 2002 Kurt Angle made Taker tap out. Hard to believe but it happened. Taker’s been screwed over and outnumbered many times but no one had ever come close to making him tap. Angle got him to tap. No Way Out 2006, the two met up again and this time Angle got a clean pin on Taker after a great match. For whatever reason Angle just has Taker’s number.

It really all hinges on who you believe wins that 2nd match as Taker clearly wins the street fight and Angle clearly wins the ladder match.

Taker Vs Angle in a cage

My feeling is with no interference and nowhere to run for Angle, Taker wins this. I'm open to be convinced though.

Well we know these matches always go to a third fall. No promoter is going to advertise three stages of hell and have it end after only two stages. Since the cage match is the second stage Angle has to win it in order for there to be a third. If you're giving Angle the ladder match that means he wins two out of three.

 

[JJYanks121]

For me, this is the most lopsided match of this round. It's Taker, and I don't see how it's close.

Brain has given the best argument so far of Angle's history against Taker but it's not enough. In a big match setting, and this match gets you into the regional finals, Taker doesn't lose. No really, he never has.

Let's also consider that Angle faced Taker twice in the "forgotten" 4 year period where Taker was some weird biker dude that was oddly alive. Coincidently, that Taker shared something in common with Kurt Angle......both didn't sell anything in a match for shit. Taker chose not to, while Angle never really grasped that anything other than throwing people around meant something in wrestling. Irrelevant but true fact that I felt like pointing out.

What is relevant is that the match would go down like this:

Angle comes in as a heel and taker as a face. We want them in their best incarnations so those are their best roles. As such, Taker beats the fuck out of Angle in a street fight. Bloody, vicious beating. Angle doesn't stand a prayer of chance in that setting. He's out of it and beaten badly but he gets, lets call it the Roode special and gets pushed out of the cage to win but not really realize it. Now it goes to a ladder match and the dude can barely move. He may be resilient but Taker has thoroughly massacred the little guy. He's got nothing left and Taker is able to climb the ladder and win.

Far greater men have tried to beat Taker in a big match. Why just this year Triple H tried to do it in Hell in a Cell. He failed and he's a better man on his worst day than Kurt Angle on his best. Taker wins and that most overrated wrestler in this tournament finally goes home.

 

[Bernkastel]

Far greater men have tried to beat Taker in a big match. Why just this year Triple H tried to do it in Hell in a Cell. He failed and he's a better man on his worst day than Kurt Angle on his best. Taker wins and that most overrated wrestler in this tournament finally goes home.

I do not like using the Streak as a way to justify Undertaker winning. At this point I'd say that the Streak by itself is bigger than the Undertaker's entire career. WWE could induct the Streak into the HOF by itself. Using the Streak as Undertaker's prime no one could beat Taker; even Hogan at the peak of Hulkamania would struggle.

That being said I do think Taker would be the one to win this thing. Angle and Taker have traded wins plenty of times in the past with each other; it's like the Booker T vs Christian match but on a larger scale. I see Undertaker with the advantage in the Street Fight, and I could see him beating Angle in a ladder match more plausibly than vice versa.

 

[The Gribbler]

I recall two matches that at the time I thought were excellent in the early 2000's. I think the second may have been a few years after the first, but in both matches, the undertaker was in some sort of choke holding on for his life, lifting angle into a pin, the undertaker tapping whilst Kurt got pinned for the three. Those matches were both the same ending sometime apart. Anyway the point of that is, these two always put on a good close showing against each other, so I don't think this is easy on way or the other.


BUT... In the history of wrestling, I think the undertaker has proven time and time again that he deserves his spot, putting on a great showing in every match type that he is forced into. Gimmick hardcore type matches favor him moreso than Angle I think and so here he gets my vote.

Taker to win.

 

[JJYanks121]

I do not like using the Streak as a way to justify Undertaker winning. At this point I'd say that the Streak by itself is bigger than the Undertaker's entire career. WWE could induct the Streak into the HOF by itself. Using the Streak as Undertaker's prime no one could beat Taker; even Hogan at the peak of Hulkamania would struggle.

That being said I do think Taker would be the one to win this thing. Angle and Taker have traded wins plenty of times in the past with each other; it's like the Booker T vs Christian match but on a larger scale. I see Undertaker with the advantage in the Street Fight, and I could see him beating Angle in a ladder match more plausibly than vice versa.

That's fair but I try to look at this tournament in terms of a "big match setting". It's not Over the Limit, it's a one-off match with a quality competitor. In that sense, the better guy has to win, not the other guy to "build heat" for their next matchup. There is no next matchup. Quite simply if that's the case, Kurt Angle doesn't stand a chance for me. When it's come to feud enders and big matches, when has Taker lost? Like I said, I know Angle beat Taker before but that's not Deadman Taker 2 out of 3 times and it's also not in a big setting. I just don't think when push comes to shove that Angle would go over. If not for an easy draw, I struggle to believe Angle even belongs this far into the tournament. A little bit of personal bias there but hey, it's my vote and I'm allowed to have it. I'm also not a big Taker fan and I don't think he's a 1 seed but he's certainly better than Angle for sure and in a brutal match like this, Angle won't win.

 

[Tastycles]

I had a rethink, and I went with Kurt Angle. Angle probably hasn't had the career of The Undertaker, but when I started to think about it, it was like the Batista and Triple H situation. Had they never wrestled, I'd take Taker, but because they have, and because Angle usually won, I'm going with Angle.

 

[Shocky]

I think people really need to refreshen their Kurt Angle vs. the Undertaker knowledge.

In 2000 a rookie Kurt Angle took the Undertaker to the limit at Fully Loaded.

Kurt as WWE champion beat the Undertaker at Survivor Series.

In 2002 on Smackdown, both fought to a draw, but Angle managed to make the deadman tap out. Think about that. The Undertaker tapped out, and Angle was able to do it.

They had another match on Smackdown which Taker won via DQ thanks to Brock.

Finally, Angle beat the Undertaker, in one of the best matches ever, at No Way Out 2006.

People are just flat out wrong if they think the Undertaker is going to steamroll Angle. Nothing in their history suggests that at all. In fact, it shows that Angle is more then able of pulling out a close victory.

Vote Kurt.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I don't like three stages of hell gimmicks. Well, in the tournament - I'm not too bothered either way in reality. Three stages of hell always goes to the third stage. Always, always, always.

I had a rethink, and I went with Kurt Angle. Angle probably hasn't had the career of The Undertaker, but when I started to think about it, it was like the Batista and Triple H situation. Had they never wrestled, I'd take Taker, but because they have, and because Angle usually won, I'm going with Angle.

I'm tired of your concise posts and your seamless, easy-to-follow logic. It sickens me to my very core. But I agree. Kurt and Undertaker wrestled on several occasions and Kurt usually won. Nice and simple.

 

[Diet Soda]

In 2000 a rookie Kurt Angle took the Undertaker to the limit at Fully Loaded.

Hardly, the match was over in less than 10 minutes and finished emphatically with a Chokeslam and the Last Ride.

1-0

Kurt as WWE champion beat the Undertaker at Survivor Series.

The Angles used twin magic to dupe the Undertaker with this one. Taker pretty much dominated the match. Kurt got the pin with a roll-up with the tights. Hell tactics, I know, but hardly a resounding victory.

1-1

In 2002 on Smackdown, both fought to a draw, but Angle managed to make the deadman tap out. Think about that. The Undertaker tapped out, and Angle was able to do it.

Undertaker tapped as the 3 count was made. Screwball finish, but the win actually went to Taker in that match.

2-1

They had another match on Smackdown which Taker won via DQ thanks to Brock.

And another on Raw in 2000 which Taker won via DQ thanks to Shane and the Big Show. But that doesn't strengthen the case for Angle, in fact, it weakens it.

4-1

Finally, Angle beat the Undertaker, in one of the best matches ever, at No Way Out 2006.

Finally, Angle gets a clean pin on the Undertaker, whilst he's locked in the Hell's Gate, no less. However, Angle didn't exactly outclass the Deadman, he merely reversed a hold. That won't get him over a cage wall or up a ladder. Put simple, over the times they've met, Angle has never flat-out, solidly, beaten the Undertaker to the point where Taker can no longer go on.

4-2, but if we just count the clean finishes, it's 1-1, a lot more evenly matched than it seems. But as I just said, Angle hasn't ever been able to keep the Undertaker down - the only falls he has over the Deadman are in small package manoeuvers. Which won't help in this kind of match.

People are just flat out wrong if they think the Undertaker is going to steamroll Angle. Nothing in their history suggests that at all. In fact, it shows that Angle is more then able of pulling out a close victory.

This was never going to be a squash match, it's the biggest challenge Taker has faced so far, but the history argument falls flat when you deconstruct it. Angle will weasel his way into getting a fall in this match, but there's no way he can get two.

Vote Taker.

 

[Coco]

Brain has given the best argument so far of Angle's history against Taker but it's not enough. In a big match setting, and this match gets you into the regional finals, Taker doesn't lose. No really, he never has.

Except for that time he challenged Angle for the title on the tenth anniversary of his debut. Or that time he challenged Angle for the title to determine who would headline WrestleMania 22. Taker doesn't lose in a big match settling unless you're counting those times he lost to Kurt Angle.

Angle's just got Taker figured out. Simple as. It happens sometimes.

Be smart. Vote Angle.

 

[Diet Soda]

Except for that time he challenged Angle for the title on the tenth anniversary of his debut. Or that time he challenged Angle for the title to determine who would headline WrestleMania 22. Taker doesn't lose in a big match settling unless you're counting those times he lost to Kurt Angle.

Angle's just got Taker figured out. Simple as. It happens sometimes.

So you really think that stashing Angle's brother under the ring and/or hoping that Taker will use a hold that Angle can reverse swings it in a 3 stages of hell match?

Fine, so (maybe) you've got one fall in Angle's favour. Try doing the switcheroo with a cage around the ring or rolling through the Hell's Gate to get up a ladder.

Be rational. Vote Taker.

 

[Shocky]

The match from Smackdown in 2002 was ruled a draw. So in big time matches (matches for titles), Kurt is 2-0-1 against the Undertaker. The only time the Undertaker ever pinned Angle was in 2000. Once Angle hit his prime, he never lost via pinfall or submission to the Undertaker.