Paterno done at Penn State?

[klunderbunker]

This is a tricky one.

Before I get to Paterno, there's something else I want to bring up. Let's assume for the sake of this, what the graduate assistant claims he saw is true. The first thing I'm thinking is why didn't he (the assistant) do something about it right then? I mean, if nothing else shout WHAT ARE YOU DOING or get the kid away from Sandusky somehow. That's the most confusing thing I've seen so far. If it's as he says it was in the grand jury report, how in the world do you just walk away from that and call your dad then go to your dad's house without doing anything more?

Anyway as for Paterno, I don't see how he could have done anything else in 2002. He had the word of someone I'm assuming he trusted, but Paterno was a 73 year old man. What else is he supposed to do? Call the cops? Maybe, but it's not like he said forget it and read the paper. he reported it to someone with the official authority to deal with it. Now, the fact that Sandusky wasn't arrested or anything isn't on Paterno's hands, but maybe the stuff later on is. Should he have gone to Sandusky for an explanation? Perhaps, but what was going to come out of that?

"Sandusky, were you molesting that boy?"

"Yes Joe, I was. I'll spare you the time and call the cops for you so they can lock me up in jail for the rest of my life."

The question seems to be should Paterno have reported it himself/followed up on it once his higher ups apparently didn't stop it? How do we know what Paterno knew? Isn't it possible this was the situation:

Paterno reports this to his boss.

Paterno's boss a few days later: "Joe, we've reported it to the campus police. It's been taken care of."

There. There's your logical way that this could have happened. Now, is that enough from Paterno? Perhaps, but at the same time he did what he was supposed to do. I'm currently watching a news show where they say he was supposed to follow up on it. I can understand the idea of it, but I'm not sure if he should be fired about it, which in essence is what's happening.

 

[gd]

Bottomline is everyone involved fucked up and is to blame. That McQueary didn't do anything to stop sexual abuse that was happening right in front of him was absurd. That the higher ups never looked into it further (not even enough to realize Sandusky had previous troubles regarding prior molestation) is even worse. Overall, I'd say Paterno is the "least" guilty here, but that doesn't mean he still isn't guilty. Hell, Sandusky still was bringing kids to PSU football practices in 2007 after all of the horrible things he did.

Obviously the biggest villian here is Sandusky and based on his simply disgusting actions, but those at the university who so causually handled the investigation into the raping of a 10 year old child deserve a ton of the blame as well

 

[ServantofTwilight]

And told them what?

"Hey, Mr. Policeman, a year ago a graduate assistant you've never met (because he's never spoken to you) told me a guy who has not worked for me in nearly half a decade molested a child I cannot identify, nor point you in the right direction of. At the time I was told this, I passed it on to my athletic director, and even though I have no idea what his action on this was, I just thought I should let you know what someone else claimed to have saw."


Seriously, that's what you want Joe Paterno to say? I can only imagine the officer's follow-up questions:

Police: "When did this abuse happen?"

Paterno: "4 years ago"

Police: What was the date of the alleged abuse?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: What is the victim's name?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: What did the AD do?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: Where were you when this happened?

Paterno: I don't know

Police: Why hasn't the man who claimed to have saw it reported it to the police?

Paterno: I don't know


I'm sure it would have been such a helpful interview.

Where do you get your timeline from? Paterno informs the higher ups on March 2nd 2002 and on March 27th 2002 it is resolved. Sandusky has to turn in his locker room keys.

Had Paterno and McQueary then gone to the police the incident would have been only a month old. McQueary obviously wanted Paterno's council and he should have told him to go to the police. We are talking about the anal rape of a 10 year old boy. That should have sent them both to the police. Plus Sandusky had adopted kids and worked with children at The Second Mile.

Is Paterno most to blame? No.
Did he do all he could do? No.
Should he have done more? Yep.
Should he be fired? Don't know.

Paterno did what he was 'technically' obligated to do. To say he did right is a stretch.

 

[Slyfox696]

Where do you get your timeline from? Paterno informs the higher ups on March 2nd 2002 and on March 27th 2002 it is resolved. Sandusky has to turn in his locker room keys.

Which suggest the higher ups are investigating, correct?

Had Paterno and McQueary then gone to the police the incident would have been only a month old.

Okay, these are two different people, with much different responsibilities in this situation. Don't lump Paterno and McQueary together.

McQueary obviously wanted Paterno's council and he should have told him to go to the police.

Do you have evidence he didn't?

Is Paterno most to blame? No.
Did he do all he could do? No.
Should he have done more? Yep.
Should he be fired? Don't know.

Paterno did what he was 'technically' obligated to do. To say he did right is a stretch.

I'm sorry, but again you're just being silly.

He did what he was supposed to, what he was legally obligated to do. If we expect people to do more in those situations, then it should be legislated so. Until that happens, Paterno did right.

Could he have done more? Sure, but that's not his responsibility, it's not his job, and honestly, and I know people will be up in arms about this, but it's not his concern. It's the concern of a lot of people, but not really Paterno's.

Joe Paterno is a man. He is a man who is doing a job. The idea he should also play Superman is absurd. Just like you most likely aren't out hunting down child molesters and spousal abusers because it's not your job or concern, it's not Paterno's job or concern to do it either.


EDIT: And now Paterno has been fired. Disgusting on the part of Penn State to make Paterno a scapegoat.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

The problem with your post is the assumption of wrongdoing by Paterno.

If the University, or the police, or the victims' mothers, or the grad assistant had done as they should have, none of this would be an issue, regarding Paterno. But more importantly (in regards to your post), if the media and the University wasn't using Paterno as the fall guy to sell more newspapers and to wash their hands clean of wrongdoing, it wouldn't affect the football program.

This isn't a football program issue. This isn't even a University issue. This is an issue where a bad guy did a bad thing, which was allowed to continue because the people responsible for taking action did not. The only reason Paterno's actions have led to questions regarding his ability to coach is because that's how it's been spun by the media and the University.

Make no mistake about it, if the media had said, "This is an awful thing to happen, and if people would have listened to JoePa earlier, this tragedy could been partly avoided. Why they didn't listen to a man as wise as JoePa, I'll never know," then there would be no question regarding Paterno's ability to lead.


However, that doesn't sell copies. That doesn't attract visitors to your website, and that doesn't sell advertising. So the story becomes "Joe Paterno is the blame for all of the world's problems, simply because he was unwilling to step out of his role as a coach and become a criminal investigator".


No, the position you take is one begging the question.

When did I say I think Paterno did anything wrong? My point is that it doesn't matter what I think about what Paterno did or did not do. I have visited PSU twice, once for a PSU-Michigan football game and once for a wedding. I am not a PSU booster, employee, alumni, student, recruit, parent of a recruit, member of the Happy Valley community, Pennsylvania government officer. In other words my opinion does not effect the success of the school or the football program. However, enough of these people feel that either Paterno did something wrong or may have done something wrong. Either way his continued employment is doing more harm than good to PSU and the football program.

The football program exists to win games, bring in money and attract students. Do you think that this can all be fixed and the program is better off with Paterno continuing to be the head coach? If not, than he should step down or be fired.

Btw, I know what the media is doing and why they are doing it. But the fact of the matter they are doing it and whether you think it is right or wrong it is doing damage to PSU and PSU's football program. The messenger is irrelevant, perception is reality, and the reality is that Paterno is hurting PSU and the football program by sticking around.

 

[Slyfox696]

This is a GREAT read. I recommend everyone read it.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...l-jerry-sandusky-paterno-narrative-lazy-media

When did I say I think Paterno did anything wrong?

I never said you did. I said you're begging the question.

My point is that it doesn't matter what I think about what Paterno did or did not do. I have visited PSU twice, once for a PSU-Michigan football game and once for a wedding. I am not a PSU booster, employee, alumni, student, recruit, parent of a recruit, member of the Happy Valley community, Pennsylvania government officer. In other words my opinion does not effect the success of the school or the football program. However, enough of these people feel that either Paterno did something wrong or may have done something wrong. Either way his continued employment is doing more harm than good to PSU and the football program.

And that's the point. Your position is based off the idea Paterno did something wrong, whether you believe it or not.

You believe Paterno deserved to lose his job, because the media turned this into a "Paterno was an enabler" circus, in order to sell newspaper copies. That's the point. Americans are mindless drones, and when the media starts to spin, so many people are too stupid to recognize it.

If the media had come out and said, "Joe Paterno is a great man, who tried to alert Penn State to these heinous acts back in 2002, only to have his words covered up by the evil athletic director/president", and they constantly pushed that story, then Paterno is a hero. People wouldn't be calling for his head. But that wouldn't sell copies, and that wouldn't make for clickable links. Hell, an hour or two ago, the link to Paterno's retirement statement on ESPN was "Paterno wished he had done more", completely erasing the entire point to the article, not to mention the context which was framed around that statement.

ESPN and other media outlets have acted despicably throughout this entire process, exploiting sexual assault victims and dragging a good man's name through the mud to make money. They framed the narrative in a way which forced Paterno to resign and then later be fired.

The football program exists to win games, bring in money and attract students. Do you think that this can all be fixed and the program is better off with Paterno continuing to be the head coach? If not, than he should step down or be fired.

Like I said, your position assumes that which you are trying to argue. You can't say Paterno being the coach is wrong, because people think what he did was wrong, when the whole discussion is centered around whether or not what he didn't do was wrong.

Btw, I know what the media is doing and why they are doing it. But the fact of the matter they are doing it and whether you think it is right or wrong it is doing damage to PSU and PSU's football program. The messenger is irrelevant, perception is reality, and the reality is that Paterno is hurting PSU and the football program by sticking around.

And if Penn State University had any guts at all, they'd stand up and identify the actual problem, and not allow the public disgrace of a man who has done so much for the University. But they don't want to do that, because Penn State has been trying to get ride of Paterno since the early 00's, and by making him the scapegoat, it takes national news coverage off of them.

At the end of the day, there are certain truths. It's a truth Sandusky is an evil man, assuming the allegations are true. It's a truth Paterno did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do legally. It's a truth the people whose job it was to take action did not.

Those are truths. And I'll tell you something else that's the truth. The truth is if I were a college football coach, I'd be steaming mad about what's going on at Penn State, the way they are allowing the disgrace of a man who served them so admirably over the years. And I'd be offering Joe Paterno an assistant job for the rest of the season on my coaching staff, if he was willing to take it. I'd even pay him out of my own salary, if I could afford it.

 

[gd]

Paterno knew something happened. Sandusky continued to be allowed around campus and everything with the condition he was "advised not to bring boys in the shower." Do you think after the initial conversation Paterno never discussed the matter with the higher ups again?

Once again, the focus shouldn't be about Paterno, but it is becaue he's by far the most recognizable figure in the whole situation. Everyone involved is to blame. I have no idea how McQueary hasn't been fired yet. Just because the law states Paterno did nothing wrong, it doesn't mean he was right. He even admitted himself that he should have done more.

 

[Davi323]

Well, its all a moot point now. Joe Paterno was fired, and is no longer the head coach. Whether you think he deserved it or was unfairly being crucified, he is gone. Such a sad way for his legacy to end.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well, its all a moot point now. Joe Paterno was fired, and is no longer the head coach. Whether you think he deserved it or was unfairly being crucified, he is gone. Such a sad way for his legacy to end.

I would argue the word is "cowardly". What a cowardly way for his career to end. Those cowards on the Board of Trustees don't give a rat's rear end about those children. They're not firing Paterno because he did anything wrong, or even because of things he didn't do that he apparently was supposed to. They fired him so their University could make more money. They are a bunch of cowards.

Want to know why I say this? Mike McQueary is still WR coach on the team. Don't tell me you fired Paterno because he "could have done more", when McQueary is still your WR coach.

Cowards.

 

[BooCocky]

This whole Joe Pa situation is cracking me up. Not the allegations but how everything was handled. Joe Pa may be innocent but if his grandkids were being molested he would have gone to the police.

Honestly I believe he's just as guilty. He knows he witnessed something or knew something and he kept letting Sandusky on campus. He's just as guilty. I'm glad he got canned. He has like a cult following. It's ridiculous. I know a ton of PSU students and they're more pissed about his firing then anything else. Be real people kids were harmed. Get a clue PSU.

 

[Davi323]

I would argue the word is "cowardly". What a cowardly way for his career to end. Those cowards on the Board of Trustees don't give a rat's rear end about those children. They're not firing Paterno because he did anything wrong, or even because of things he didn't do that he apparently was supposed to. They fired him so their University could make more money. They are a bunch of cowards.

Want to know why I say this? Mike McQueary is still WR coach on the team. Don't tell me you fired Paterno because he "could have done more", when McQueary is still your WR coach.

Cowards.

Again, while I think Paterno needed to go, I can't wholeheartedly disagree with this either. Paterno was fired so the University could save what little face they had left. I do not believe that PSU felt that Paterno did anything wrong, I think they are using him as a scapegoat as well. Their motivation for firing have little to do with my reasons for wanting it to happen. Penn State did it as a PR move, not out of a sense of bringing justice to any of the victims.

My own personal reasons for wanting him gone are not related to the University's motivation. My girlfriend's dad was sexually abusing her nephews, and other family members enabled it to happen, and it's something that tears her up inside, even though her dad is spending the rest of his life in prison. She is the one that turned him in after she found out it was going on, she is the reason her dad is in prison. But she still harbors all kind of resentment for other members of her family for allowing it to happen. Like I said in my previous post, I don't blame Joe Paterno for not going to the police...but I do hold him responsible for allowing Sandusky to still have access. Even if he didn't realize he was doing it, he was acting as an enabler. When you have been affected by it, or care about someone who has been personally affected by something like this, it's just a different thought process going on.

 

[ScruffDog]

Ahh, so Paterno is God. Good to know.

At Penn State, Yes he was. You clearly know nothing about Penn State.

They fired him so their University could make more money. They are a bunch of cowards.

How does firing your biggest draw to your collage help you make more money? I guess you'll save money because you don't have to pay him, but I don't think you make any money off this move.

Want to know why I say this? Mike McQueary is still WR coach on the team. Don't tell me you fired Paterno because he "could have done more", when McQueary is still your WR coach.

You're right, McQueary should, and I think will, be fired before this weekends game.

There is no question that Penn State has done a honorably job handling this situation. There are still several unanswered question, and I think many more people at Penn State will loss there jobs

 

[George Steele's Barber]

This is a GREAT read. I recommend everyone read it.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/201...l-jerry-sandusky-paterno-narrative-lazy-media

I never said you did. I said you're begging the question.

And that's the point. Your position is based off the idea Paterno did something wrong, whether you believe it or not.

You believe Paterno deserved to lose his job, because the media turned this into a "Paterno was an enabler" circus, in order to sell newspaper copies. That's the point. Americans are mindless drones, and when the media starts to spin, so many people are too stupid to recognize it.

If the media had come out and said, "Joe Paterno is a great man, who tried to alert Penn State to these heinous acts back in 2002, only to have his words covered up by the evil athletic director/president", and they constantly pushed that story, then Paterno is a hero. People wouldn't be calling for his head. But that wouldn't sell copies, and that wouldn't make for clickable links. Hell, an hour or two ago, the link to Paterno's retirement statement on ESPN was "Paterno wished he had done more", completely erasing the entire point to the article, not to mention the context which was framed around that statement.

ESPN and other media outlets have acted despicably throughout this entire process, exploiting sexual assault victims and dragging a good man's name through the mud to make money. They framed the narrative in a way which forced Paterno to resign and then later be fired.

Like I said, your position assumes that which you are trying to argue. You can't say Paterno being the coach is wrong, because people think what he did was wrong, when the whole discussion is centered around whether or not what he didn't do was wrong.


And if Penn State University had any guts at all, they'd stand up and identify the actual problem, and not allow the public disgrace of a man who has done so much for the University. But they don't want to do that, because Penn State has been trying to get ride of Paterno since the early 00's, and by making him the scapegoat, it takes national news coverage off of them.

At the end of the day, there are certain truths. It's a truth Sandusky is an evil man, assuming the allegations are true. It's a truth Paterno did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do legally. It's a truth the people whose job it was to take action did not.

Those are truths. And I'll tell you something else that's the truth. The truth is if I were a college football coach, I'd be steaming mad about what's going on at Penn State, the way they are allowing the disgrace of a man who served them so admirably over the years. And I'd be offering Joe Paterno an assistant job for the rest of the season on my coaching staff, if he was willing to take it. I'd even pay him out of my own salary, if I could afford it.

You can keep killing the messenger as much as you want, it is not going to change what has happened.

And what would PSU's grandstanding change? Your ideas are noble but it is unrealistic to think the University could change public opinion. Remember, eventually we are going to hear from the victims. When this happens the media is going to ask them the question, "How do you feel knowing that Joe Paterno had some knowledge of what happened to you and did not do more?". Do you want Paterno to be your coach of your football program when that question is asked and answered? What mom isn't going to think twice about sending their kid to PSU? What booster isn't going to think twice when writing a check? What coach isn't going to think twice about joining his staff?

If you want to add him to your football program go ahead. I am sure every parent in America won't question what type of program you are running when you take such a stand. Awarding perceived pedofile enablers with a job may not be a crime but it is generally frowned upon in the public eye.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

So I understand that McQueary will be on the sidelines this Saturday when Penn States plays Nebraska. That is ridiculous on so many levels I cannot fathom. If you are going to hold all the higher ups accountable for what happened, shouldn't the person who actually witnessed the wrongdoing be gone as well. I was watching First Take and they were talking about how McQueary shouldn't be condemned because what were you supposed to do at that exact moment that he witnessed it. That is absolute bullshit to the highest degree. If ESPN and other outlets are going to condemn Paterno because morally he should have done more, then shouldn't they do the same for McQueary. It's like the bystander effect all over again. I wonder why didn't McQueary go to the actual police and report what he saw.

 

[Davi323]

THIS SHOULD BE TAKEN ONLY AS RUMOR RIGHT NOW

Mark Madden (Yes, I know) claims that two "prominent" columnists are investigating the possibility that Sandusky's 2nd Mile Foundation was used as a cover for young boys to be pimped out to rich PSU donors. I know it's Mark Madden, and as such, anything he claims is automatically suspect...but he also broke the original Sandusky story 7 months ago, and nobody paid attention. He was accurate then, which makes me not want to dismiss this rumor automatically. He obviously has some sources pretty high up.

Again, this is only a rumor, should be taken as such, and should not be treated as fact under any circumstances until there are actual specifics that can be chronicled...but given what is coming out of PSU now, would it surprise anyone if it were true? And if it's true, the implications this will have for Penn State could be completely ruinous. Forget it costing JoePa his job, this would dwarf that. If Sandusky was running a pedophile pimping service, this could lead to the biggest scandal to hit college athletics ever.

 

[Megatron]

This story is truly, truly disturbing. Jerry Sandusky is a piece of shit and should get raped in prison 50000000 times as much as he raped those 10-20 boys. He can rot and deserves everything that he gets (assuming this is all true, of course).

As for Paterno, I think he got somewhat of a raw deal and was a scapegoat. Paterno was the middle man in this. McQueary should be condemned more then Paterno since he had firsthand knowledge of what happened and didn't either get closer to check it out or go to the authorities right away. How he could not even disturb what was going on and 'ran away' is more shocking then Paterno not following up on it. The men above Paterno, the guys who were also fired, deserve a majority of the blame for not taking it to the authorities or informing Paterno of what they've done (they might have, I've tried to stay somewhat away from this story because it's just sickening). Paterno did his job and, more then likely, figured the men above him would do the rest. Should he have taken it to the authorities right away? Debatable, since he wasn't there and didn't have firsthand knowledge of it. If he filed a report and nothing actually happened between Sandusky and the boys (although it has; this is a hypothetical) then Paterno might have had a little bit of trouble. This appeared to be more of a PR thing to get some positive back on the Universities side. I can't say I approve (especially since the guy who WITNESSED IT is still at the moment on the staff) of Paterno's firing, but I can sense where they would due to the media painting him as the bad guy.

This is a completely awful story and an awful (and unfair) way for Paterno's career to end. Fuck you Jerry Sandusky. Rot in hell you pedophile.

 

[klunderbunker]

Want to know why I say this? Mike McQueary is still WR coach on the team. Don't tell me you fired Paterno because he "could have done more", when McQueary is still your WR coach.

This. Right here. More than anything else this.

Again let's assume that everything that has been said is true. McQuery sees the actual rape happening and GOES TO HIS DAD'S HOUSE. How in the world can Paterno, the guy that actually reported it to the authorities, be fired while the guy that saw it happening and did nothing have his job still? That makes less than zero sense. The guy was 28 years old and allegedly saw a grown man raping a 10 year old kid and went home. I don't know about you, but if you see something like that going on, how can you not say or so something? I mean, what did he think was going on? How he's not in jail or at least fired is beyond me, but hey at least that evil and responsible guy that reported it to the authorities is gone. We need more of those people that see kids getting raped and keep walking around Penn State!

 

[Davi323]

Heard one of the local sports radio guys talking about the Mark Madden rumor a few minutes ago and he made a really, really good point, and it makes me think that there may actually be some truth to the rumor:

IF the rumor about the 2nd Mile Foundation is true, that it was used as a cover for Sandusky to pimp out young boys to wealthy PSU donors, it would actually explain how in the hell this was able to stay secret for so long. These donors, if the rumor is true, would have done anything they possibly could to keep it a secret. Because if Sandusky went down, he might start naming names in some sort of plea bargain or something, and that would not only embarrass a LOT of supposedly important people, but opens them up for criminal charges too. How far would a booster affected go to protect their own name?Would the things they might do include putting financial pressure on the athletic department as well as intimidating the Administration as a whole? Do they have dirt on people? Depending on how much money they gave to the school, they could exert a lot of influence.

Again, the 2nd Mile Foundation stuff is nothing but rumor at this point, and should be taken with a grain of salt. But, if it's true, it does help answer a few questions about how it could stay a secret for so long.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Heard one of the local sports radio guys talking about the Mark Madden rumor a few minutes ago and he made a really, really good point, and it makes me think that there may actually be some truth to the rumor:

IF the rumor about the 2nd Mile Foundation is true, that it was used as a cover for Sandusky to pimp out young boys to wealthy PSU donors, it would actually explain how in the hell this was able to stay secret for so long. These donors, if the rumor is true, would have done anything they possibly could to keep it a secret. Because if Sandusky went down, he might start naming names in some sort of plea bargain or something, and that would not only embarrass a LOT of supposedly important people, but opens them up for criminal charges too. How far would a booster affected go to protect their own name?Would the things they might do include putting financial pressure on the athletic department as well as intimidating the Administration as a whole? Do they have dirt on people? Depending on how much money they gave to the school, they could exert a lot of influence.

Again, the 2nd Mile Foundation stuff is nothing but rumor at this point, and should be taken with a grain of salt. But, if it's true, it does help answer a few questions about how it could stay a secret for so long.

Interesting points. This could also explain why one of the district attorneys investigating the situation, disappeared and his laptop was found in a river by fisherman. Did he have all the evidence he needed to bring down the entire charity, on his laptop? Was he paid (by the wealthy donors)to destroy it and disappear?

 

[Slyfox696]

I'm going to attempt to make this my last post on the subject, because I'm tired of reading short-sighted comments.

This whole Joe Pa situation is cracking me up. Not the allegations but how everything was handled. Joe Pa may be innocent but if his grandkids were being molested he would have gone to the police.

Perhaps, but only after he checked with his grandkids first.

I've read this statement over and over, and it doesn't lose any of its stupidity. Paterno didn't know who the victims were, how can he check with them? Paterno DOES know his own grandchildren, so he can follow up with that. This is what I'm talking about with regards to being shortsighted.

Honestly I believe he's just as guilty.

Honestly, I believe you sound stupid right now, with the evidence we currently have in public.

He has like a cult following. It's ridiculous. I know a ton of PSU students and they're more pissed about his firing then anything else. Be real people kids were harmed. Get a clue PSU.

Damn right we're pissed. Because in this witch hunt to get Joe Paterno, the media and the University are neglecting the fact children were harmed. Hell, ESPN is exploiting the sexual abuse victims.

Damn right we're pissed. Just like Paterno said yesterday, Penn State SHOULD have far more important things to discuss than his status as football coach. Obviously, the position of football coach was more important to them than trying to get to the bottom of what happened to these children.

Damn right we're pissed.

And what would PSU's grandstanding change?

It would change everything. If you stand up and put the blame on the specific people, then that's where the story goes. If you come out and say "We believe Joe Paterno acted in the very best efforts he could to bring this to life, and it was only through the failings of others, this situation was allowed to occur", I bet this story wouldn't be HALF of what it has turned into. This story stopped being about Sandusky and abused children days ago. This story turned into "let's see how many links we can get clicked by bashing Paterno".

Your ideas are noble but it is unrealistic to think the University could change public opinion.

Of course they could. Americans, as a whole, are mindless drones. Why else would so many people be up in arms about Paterno fulfilling his legal obligation, while conveniently ignoring the fact McQueary is still going to be coaching Saturday?

THIS SHOULD BE TAKEN ONLY AS RUMOR RIGHT NOW

Mark Madden (Yes, I know) claims that two "prominent" columnists are investigating the possibility that Sandusky's 2nd Mile Foundation was used as a cover for young boys to be pimped out to rich PSU donors. I know it's Mark Madden, and as such, anything he claims is automatically suspect...but he also broke the original Sandusky story 7 months ago, and nobody paid attention. He was accurate then, which makes me not want to dismiss this rumor automatically. He obviously has some sources pretty high up.

Again, this is only a rumor, should be taken as such, and should not be treated as fact under any circumstances until there are actual specifics that can be chronicled...but given what is coming out of PSU now, would it surprise anyone if it were true? And if it's true, the implications this will have for Penn State could be completely ruinous. Forget it costing JoePa his job, this would dwarf that. If Sandusky was running a pedophile pimping service, this could lead to the biggest scandal to hit college athletics ever.

If this is true, and like you said it's only rumor, then Penn State football is finished. Penn State football will look upon what happened at SMU and pray for a similar fate.

At Penn State, Yes he was. You clearly know nothing about Penn State.

And you clearly know nothing about the educational system, nor the usual egos of the men who attain such high positions. Not to mention the fact, Spanier was trying to get rid of Paterno way back in the early 2000's, so the idea Paterno had great influence over Spanier is not only mistaken, it's also ignorant.

How does firing your biggest draw to your collage help you make more money? I guess you'll save money because you don't have to pay him, but I don't think you make any money off this move.

Are you kidding? Penn State made Paterno the public scapegoat, so the University itself wouldn't be. If they can spin it as this whole thing being Paterno's fault, then they can fire Paterno and when prospective students begin researching colleges, their choices aren't "Ohio State, Pittsburgh, the university which hires child rapists, Michigan...".

By putting this on Paterno, they've spun the blame away from the institution and instead upon a man who did his job, and for 60 years was a pillar of class. They're cowards, plain and simple.

There is no question that Penn State has done a honorably job handling this situation. There are still several unanswered question, and I think many more people at Penn State will loss there jobs

I'm assuming you mean "horrible" job. Which we can both agree with. Where we differ is on the job Paterno did.

This. Right here. More than anything else this.

Again let's assume that everything that has been said is true. McQuery sees the actual rape happening and GOES TO HIS DAD'S HOUSE. How in the world can Paterno, the guy that actually reported it to the authorities, be fired while the guy that saw it happening and did nothing have his job still? That makes less than zero sense. The guy was 28 years old and allegedly saw a grown man raping a 10 year old kid and went home. I don't know about you, but if you see something like that going on, how can you not say or so something? I mean, what did he think was going on? How he's not in jail or at least fired is beyond me, but hey at least that evil and responsible guy that reported it to the authorities is gone. We need more of those people that see kids getting raped and keep walking around Penn State!

Only as long as they don't have a name that will sell newspapers. If they do, fire them.

It's amazing how dumb Americans are. These people call for Paterno's head, and ignore the fact that not only did McQueary never contact the police even though he was the eye witness, McQueary literally saw a man raping a child and just left the child to his fate.

Anyone who relieves McQueary of a fate far worse than Paterno doesn't deserve to have their opinion taken seriously.




Finally, in conclusion, since I don't PLAN on posting in this thread again (which even I find difficult to believe), I just want to say if more details come out and Paterno had a greater knowledge or involvement in this than we currently know, then things could very easily change. But as they stand now, blaming a first class man, who fulfilled his legal obligations, for the actions of other people is one of the stupidest things to happen in America since George W. Bush was re-elected.

 

[Big Sexy]

McQueary witnessed the thing happen, didn't tell Paterno full details, didn't go to police, and he has a job. Paterno hears a story with vague details from McQueary, reports it to the proper people who he assumed would do their job, and now not only is he fired but the media still seems to think he deserved to get fired. Some people astound me.

 

[BooCocky]

Since I can't quote on the cell phone I'm just going to say this.

Joe Pa may not be in the wrong but he barely did anything. Yeah he went to the higher ups but when something doesn't get done you need to take matters in your own hand. I'm not saying Joe Pa is a piece of shit or anything. I'm just saying he should have done what's right. You have to do what's morally right. If I witnessed something I'd say something to the higher ups and if nothing gets done I'd go to the police. Joe Pa could have stopped this. Not saying he's the only one. But who knows. The thing that irks me the most though is Sandusky's access to the facilities. That's just stupid. The higher ups handled this poorly but so did Joe Pa and whoever else was aware of the situation...

 

[gd]

McQueary witnessed the thing happen, didn't tell Paterno full details, didn't go to police, and he has a job. Paterno hears a story with vague details from McQueary, reports it to the proper people who he assumed would do their job, and now not only is he fired but the media still seems to think he deserved to get fired. Some people astound me.

This is the big issue here. A few things could have happened. McQueary didn't tell Paterno the whole story for some unknown reason to, in which case McQueary is even more to blame than he already is, which should be a lot. Of course, Paterno still could've done a little more, as fondling boys in the shower still is a pretty big freakin' deal. McQueary then has his meeting with the higher ups, at which Paterno isn't present, and either doesn't tell them what actually happened, or he did and they didn't give a shit. Regardless, someone really fucked up.

Or, McQueary did tell Paterno the truth and Paterno and the higher ups proceeded to do as much as they could to push it under the rug, ultimatley doing nothing to Sandusky than telling him not to shower with preteen boys on campus anymore. Obviously there's no proof of this and it's just speculation, but it seems to make more sense than the first case and would cause an even bigger shitstorm.

Bottomline it's ridiculous that McQueary may be coaching on Saturday, especially after firing Paterno, who obviously deserves less of the blame that McQueary. As for the Paterno firing, I'm all for it, but can somewhat understand arguments against it. As for those arguing Paterno did nothing wrong, you're just silly. The man himself admitted he could've done more. Everyone involved is to blame. Paterno the least it seems, but he's still to blame.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Which suggest the higher ups are investigating, correct?

No, it suggests that after 24 days of investigating they decided that Sandusky should no longer be allowed to have a key to the shower room. That was it. And it took 24 days. Plus Sandusky was still allowed to be at all the other football facilities. Paul Posluszny and Dan Conner both said that Sandusky was always there at the practices. Their careers span from 2003-2008. Which means that after all that happened in 2002 he was still allowed all over campus.

This is also after the incident in 1998 in which Sandusky admited to showering with a child, was banned from going near the local elementary center and had a restraining order on him so that he could not go near the child, prompting Sandusky to say he wished he was dead. But I bet Paterno did not know any of this.

And I still want to know where you got your timeline...or did you just make it up?

Okay, these are two different people, with much different responsibilities in this situation. Don't lump Paterno and McQueary together.

They got lumped together once McQueary went to Paterno. Paterno took it from there so they are now forever bound.

Do you have evidence he didn't?

OK. Paterno himself should have went to the police when all the higher ups did was take a set of keys. For pete's sake Paterno threw Austin Scott off the team when he was accused of rape but when Sandusky is accused by a witness( there was no witness in the Scott case ) he lets it go with a key

He did what he was supposed to,

No, he did what he was obligated to do under school rules.

what he was legally obligated to do.

This part is right.

If we expect people to do more in those situations, then it should be legislated so. Until that happens, Paterno did right.

Now whose being silly.

Could he have done more? Sure, but that's not his responsibility, it's not his job, and honestly, and I know people will be up in arms about this, but it's not his concern. It's the concern of a lot of people, but not really Paterno's.

So Paterno is given knowledge that a known pediphile was raping a boy in the PSU looker room showers and it should not be his concern?

Joe Paterno is a man. He is a man who is doing a job. The idea he should also play Superman is absurd. Just like you most likely aren't out hunting down child molesters and spousal abusers because it's not your job or concern, it's not Paterno's job or concern to do it either.

No, but I would like to think that if I had knowledge of one of those things happening I would at the very least report it to the police. No one says Paterno had to be superman, just a man. Even Paterno has said he should have done more.

Slyfox696 said-Want to know why I say this? Mike McQueary is still WR coach on the team. Don't tell me you fired Paterno because he "could have done more", when McQueary is still your WR coach.

This was not directed at me but...

I agree here and believe McQueary should be fired. While I think Paterno should have done more( and Paterno thinks this too ) McQueary actually saw it happening and ran away. Did he go to thew police? No, he called his Dad. Did Dad tell him to go to the police? No, he sent him to Paterno. McQueary was about 28 when this happened, far from a kid. He should have been the first one fired.

For the record I think Paterno should have been left to finish out the year. He already said he was stepping down at the end of the season so I think he should have finished.

All involved acted stupidly, Paterno included. Whole situation just stinks.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

Damn right we're pissed. Because in this witch hunt to get Joe Paterno, the media and the University are neglecting the fact children were harmed. Hell, ESPN is exploiting the sexual abuse victims.

the comment about ESPN exploiting it is pretty much the reason I believe that the flow of information about investigations such as this does nothing but hurt the investigation. While I wouldn't say Paterno shouldn't be looked at without blame for things continuing to go on, but I do believe that the way it's being reported is so that there are more papers sold, more clicks on the internet.