Stone Cold at Wrestlemania 18

[LongLiveTheStreak]

Can anyone explian to me why Stone Cold Steve Austin had to work with Scott Hall at Wrestlemania 18? After his prevoius four Wrestlemania appearances: wrestling Bret Hart, HBK, and Rock on two seperate Wrestlemania main events, then BAM! here comes "big-bad" Scott Hall. He just seems so out of place in the list of Austin's Wrestlemania opponents.

Wrestlemania 12 Savio Vega

Wrestlemania 13 Bret Hart

Wrestlemania 14 Shawn Michaels

Wrestlemania 15 The Rock

Wrestlemania 17 The Rock

Wrestlemania 18 Scott Hall

Wrestlemania 19 The Rock

To me, Scott Hall does not belong on that list. You could say the same for Savio Vega, but Stone Cold's career was very young then. It seems to me that seeing as how Austin was unwilling to go through with working with Hogan as originally planned, they had to find him something to do at Wrestlemania 18 at the last minute. I just think that after all of Austin's previous `Mania performances, he deserved to be a bigger part of one of the biggest Wrestlemanias of all time. But he got a mid-card level match with a washed-up alcoholic in Scott Hall.

So does anyone know why Stone Cold did not have a bigger role in Wrestlemania 18? Why did he have to settle for this match against Scott Hall?

 

[bloewaters]

I don't see a match against hall as being a bad thing. Hall was great in the ring (when sober) and was very capable of working a good match. that coupled with the fact that he and Austin had similar styles, this match shold've been great.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

The nWo angle was the biggest thing going on in WWE at the time, and the WWE had already laid the groundwork for Austin-Hogan. When Austin backed out of it, he still had to fight an nWo member, because nothing else would have made logical sense. When he backed out, logically the big match went to Rocky, and we got a true Mania moment and the hottest crowd of all-time.

 

[Just2Sweet]

this match wasn't going to be a four star, must be rewatched by guys who want to be wrestlers match, but they told a good story at the time. hall has always been able to work when he wasn't too sauced up and a match with autin, who was a hell of a worker, brought out his strong points. it wasn't up to hbk/razor status, but it served its need

 

[dansaun77]

Austin not wanting to work with Hogan left Vince in a pickle, as he had hoped to have the biggest match in WWE 's history happen at Mania 18. Austin put himself before business, as he proved he did alot in 2002 Austin and Hall actually got on, and with Nash injured at the time, Hall was the likely replacement. WWE put themselves in a corner by signing Hogan etc, after they put the Undispited Title on Jericho. Now im a huge Jericho fan, but he was the odd man out in the main event stage at the time. As it turned out, Hogan vs The Rock goes down as a Wrestlemania classic, and Austin showed his true colours by not only refusing to lose to Hogan, refused to put over Brock Lesnar in May, and walking out on the company as he began a feud with Eddie Guerrero, a feud Austin himself begged for.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

The nWo angle was the biggest thing going on in WWE at the time, and the WWE had already laid the groundwork for Austin-Hogan. When Austin backed out of it, he still had to fight an nWo member, because nothing else would have made logical sense. When he backed out, logically the big match went to Rocky, and we got a true Mania moment and the hottest crowd of all-time.

Well the way I heard was that Hogan-Austin was locked for WM18 until the point of the finish and who would win came to be.
Hogan and Austin each thought they deserved to beat the other, both men wouldn't budge, so the bookers proposed Hogan job to Rocky.

Thus ensued some real-life tension between the two legends.
Just have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PypaVEV77pg

The look on Hogan's face says it all.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Egos played a part apparently. I wasn't aware of the alleged politicking until later, but apparently Hogan and Austin couldn't decide on a finish so they didn't have a match at all.

Why Hogan thought he should win is beyond me.

Hulk Hogan, the guy who made Vince a fuck load of money and then just up and left and worked hard to ruin Vince vs The guy who's made Vince a fuck load of money and is STILL (at that point) making Vince a fuck load of money...... yeah, why'd Hogan think he should win again? The only reason i can see is to help maintain momentum for the nWo.

Unfortunately, the way they did this whole night ended up killing the WWE's nWo within a month of bringing them in. Austin dicked both Hall and Nash in his match, and Hogan lost to Rock, and then Hogan turned face.

A whole month of them beating up WWE's biggest stars, and being involved in some truly memorable TV segments i.e. the Big Rig smashing throught the ambulance, Austin tying Hall up in the basement etc. only for the stable to become a piss poor joke within 6 weeks of their arrival.

 

[The Brain]

Like a lot of people I was hoping for Hogan vs. Austin at WM18. It turned out Hogan vs. Rock was an awesome match so I don’t have a problem with things going down that way. It probably turned out for the better. The crowd reaction for Hogan is obviously what made the match so memorable and I’m not sure he would have gotten the same reaction if he was against Austin.

I think Austin should have gone in to mania as champion and wrestled Triple H in the main event. HHH was hotter than ever after returning from the quad injury and going against Austin at mania would have been appropriate. Remember they were partners when HHH went down with the injury. Austin didn’t give a damn about HHH when he got injured and badmouthed him a little (kayfabe) when the injury happened. Then they had that awesome stare down at the Royal Rumble. That match would have had a great mania main event feel to it.

As for Hall, I would have teamed him with Nash against Booker T and DDP. Being former WCW stars Booker and DDP would realize the threat the nwo was and turn face and team up to try to stop them. This leaves Edge needing an opponent which is ok because I feel that Kurt Angle would have been a much better mania opponent for him. I would have liked to see the supposed American hero go into Edge’s home town of Toronto for a mania classic. The two started feuding right after mania and had some great matches so I think this could have and should have started at mania instead. I realize this leaves Kane without an opponent. Sorry but Kane would be left out of my version. Oh I almost forgot about Jericho. I would have put him against RVD and probably left Regal out. Maybe Regal and Kane could have started a little something just for a filler.

 

[Attitude]

I really enjoyed the match. I understand it's not on the level of Austin's other WM opponents or matches. But the match didn't suck. The match I thought was good and it accomplished what it needed to at the time. Seeing how the WWE had to switch matches and change storylines I think the fued between Scott Hall and Stone Cold turned out really good.

I think the problem is that people wanted to see Hogan/Austin. That includes me. I was irritated when they didn't have the match and would have prefered Hogan/Austin.

With that being said I think we ended up with was good. Austin/Hall was good (IMO) and Rock/Hogan was a classic.

 

[DeathClutch]

Too many people put Hall down, 9 years before Mania 18 Hall was a legit WWF main eventer, he held the IC title when it was still classed as the 2nd World title and it was something to actually bid for unlike the attitude era version of the belt.

Hall/Austin mightn't of made a lot of sense to some, but Hogan/Austin would of been mega but in fairness neither would of wanted to job, Rock pinning Hogan put Rock over, Austin pinning Hogan was a huge dig at Hogan and vice versa, so Hall got to the job for Austin, from what I can remember Nash was the choice Austin asked for but Nash was injured and ended up with Hall.

The match itself wasn't to bad, I enjoyed it a lot, it felt different and give the nWo some much needed power going into Mania, looking back I think Mania 18 could of done with be rewritten and totally changed the guys they had they could of done something more with Mania, but overall Mania 18 wasn't about Y2J/HHH or Austin/Hall or even Undertaker/Flair it was about Icon Vs Icon Rock Vs Hogan it was a one bout card, hence how Austin felt hard done by, but IMO I think the Hall/Austin match was better then expected.

 

[kingjaekob]

Scott vs Austin was a Great Match on paper! I know that Hall has a history of problems, but he is one of the Biggest Stars of all time! Scott Hall tells a story in the ring, and is Great on the Mic!

I didn't like the ROCK VS HOGAN angle! I wanted to see Hogan wrestle HHH,Taker, HBK, Goldberg, Kane, Vince just doesnt know what he is doing with story lines anymore!

The last decade from 2000-2009 had very few great matches! The worst decade, compared to the 90's which is the Best Decade Ever in Wrestling History!

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

The thing I don't get is though, why was he willing to lose to The Rock but not Austin? There must have been some other issue between the two if that was the case.

Yes there might have been, but it was a clash of egos really. I remember hearing Austin's interview on youtube and he said how 'they couldn't reach an agreement' in the end.

But this has been done before, remember how before Montreal, Bret said he was willing to drop the title to Mankind but not HBK.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

It came down to someone Austin could trust... by then he was clearly worried for both his health and his position... He needed to work with someone he knew wouldn't hurt him, who fit his style and would not fight over losing the match or be looking to usurp him... Hall was the best fit left to he and Vince at the time... both Nash and Hall went way back with Austin from WCW, they knew the score but Nash's injury meant Hall was the guy...

The match was the last decent one Hall had, he did his job, made it fun and set the stage nicely for what later happened...

 

[harrythem]

Austin clearly didn't feel that, even if Hogan let him get the win, he'd be able to get out of the match without being screwed over by Hogan. Hogan proved that Austin was right not to trust him with his whole performance against The Rock.

At least Austin, if people like it or not, had stuck by his guns and not worked with Hogan, like he said he never would when he left WCW in 95.

Gutted I never saw Hogan Vs Austin but, would've hated seeing Austin getting screwed about by the Orange manipulator

 

[CyDeez]

Well one positive that came out of it was how Scott Hall sold that Stunner. That will be a youtube favorite forever. LOL

They had a storyline going at the time. I think Hall is underrated overall, but he made the mistakes to place himself where he falls among the greatest of all time. Should have been a World Champion, but like I said, he made his own mistakes.

It does look weird I must admit, next to the other names. But it looks better than Savio Vega for sure.

Yeah for whatever reason that match had like no hype and just didn't compare to Y2J Vs. a returning Triple H for The Undisputed Championship. AND more so fell way short of Hogan Vs. The Rock.

 

[The Brain]

Another reason this was a disappointment is because of what happened after. Hall was released shortly after mania because of his drug problems. If he stayed for another couple years and added on to his legacy maybe we would look back on this match a little more fondly. Instead Hall’s second run with the company lasted about two months before his drug problems caught up with him again so a match against Austin at mania seems undeserved.

Ironically I remember wanting these two to match up at WrestleMania XII. Of course that was before Austin was a mega star and when Hall was still Razor Ramon. That would have been more fitting.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

the moot point of wrestlemania 18 as far as hogan is concerned is tht hogan wanted to turn face at all costs.he knew that was the only way he could survive in the wwe.so stuff like he was ok losing to rock and not to austin is bullshit.HE WANTED TO TURN FACE.and thats the bottomline

i dont care what all of you think but i dont think the crowd would have booed austin.now before all of you especially dumb rocky fans jump on me i know that the austin of 2002 was not the austin of 1998 but what you guys are forgetting is the character.stone cold got over in 1997 by opposing stereotypical faces like bret hart.we cheered for austin then and i think most would have cheered for austin in 02 too as once again he was opposite the quinessential goody two shoes face.

also i want to add that i do like rock quite a lot but i dont think he was at his best in this feud.he wasnt insulting hogan that much and was going a bit down the "i respect you " lane

also i read in austin's book(just got hold of it) that he did not have a problem with having a match with hall but he was unhappy with the way the match was positioned on the card.i agree with him as he had literally carried the company in 2001(as the top heel) and giving him just an upper midcard match at mania wasnt just desserts

AND THATS THE BOTTOMLINE COZ THE RATTLESNAKE SAID SO!!!!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Austin clearly didn't feel that, even if Hogan let him get the win, he'd be able to get out of the match without being screwed over by Hogan. Hogan proved that Austin was right not to trust him with his whole performance against The Rock.

At least Austin, if people like it or not, had stuck by his guns and not worked with Hogan, like he said he never would when he left WCW in 95.

Gutted I never saw Hogan Vs Austin but, would've hated seeing Austin getting screwed about by the Orange manipulator

Austin had the most to gain from working with Hogan post 96... but Hogan was never prepared to pass the torch to a far smaller guy... Once Owen botched the Tombstone it was moot... any match between the 2 would be compromised... Hogan was old, but Austin was in real danger every match after that... so if he had issues with Hogan before, he defo would after... cos Hogan is not known for being subtle in the ring...

Austin was right to be concerned with who Vince would pick in the heat of the moment... You could imagine up to bell time it being undecided or even mid match and Vince goes with nostalgia or books on the fly... Austin was right not to take that risk...

 

[Hulkamaniac]

Austin had the most to gain from working with Hogan post 96... but Hogan was never prepared to pass the torch to a far smaller guy... Once Owen botched the Tombstone it was moot... any match between the 2 would be compromised... Hogan was old, but Austin was in real danger every match after that... so if he had issues with Hogan before, he defo would after... cos Hogan is not known for being subtle in the ring...

Total BS. Hogan is noted by other workers as "not being able to feel a thing when working with Hogan", and it's not like Hogan had some high impact style with a lot of big bumps, or any bumps whatsoever.

Austin was right to be concerned with who Vince would pick in the heat of the moment... You could imagine up to bell time it being undecided or even mid match and Vince goes with nostalgia or books on the fly... Austin was right not to take that risk...

Why? Hogan jobbed to Rocky clean as a whistle, and it was never in doubt. Hogan would later job to Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar, HHH, and Undertaker. LOL at people trying to make this some indictment of Hogan. Hogan has jobbed cleanly and has even stated in interviews that he would job to Austin. Austin didn't want to work with Hogan, possibly because he didn't like him, probably because he was afraid that what happened to Rocky would happen to him.

I also got a kick out of someone attacking Hogan for "his performance against the Rock" as if it was some untrustworthy thing. The fans were popping for Hogan and booing the Rock. Yeah, they should have just ignored it and not given us one of the greatest Mania moments of all time.

 

[X]

You know I've been thinking about this thread topic since seeing it pop up a few days ago, and it didn't take me long to figure out, atleast in my opinion, the reason why Austin was straddled with Scott Hall at WM X8, and that reason is a man by the name of Triple H, who already had a huge hand in creative at that point. Hunter hates to play second fiddle, it's the same reason why he turned heel in November of 2000 and was revealed as being behind the whole Austin-being-run-over plot, he would rather have been the number one heel in the company than the number three babyface behind Rock and Austin, and rest assured he was practically a babyface in September and October of 2000 during his feuds with Benoit and Angle. Flash forward to Wrestlemania 18, and it's all about Triple H as the top face making his triumphant return after a terrible injury to win the Rumble and then squash a fresh-on-the-main-event scene Chris Jericho in the main event. It was all about Hunter that year (a trend we'd see for several more painful years) so you couldn't put Austin up against any of the top heels like Jericho or Hogan because then the focus would no longer be on the Game. Can't pair him with The Rock again as that had been done several times already and would have main evented over Hunter/Jericho, so they just straddled him with Scott Hall, someone they could basically just have Austin squash in a meaningless match to confirm his place below Triple H in the pecking order. It's one of the reasons I've always thought Austin became so frustrated with WWE booking and eventually quit/was fired/retired/whatever you want to believe.

Just my theory atleast.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Which is crack-pot at best.

[YOUTUBE]EV3h34tUIcQ[/YOUTUBE]

Yea, THAT dude totally shouldnt have been in the ME of WM a couple months later

Basically, there was no one else. Austin - Rock was done to death, and truly, it was supposed to be Hogan - Austin, but everyone in their right fucking mind knew what would happen with the crowd that night. The Rock respects the buisness, and went with it. Austin respects himself, and wouldnt. So, you get Rock - Hogan, Scott Hall doing a backflip after the stunner, and Triple H making his triumphant comeback.

 

[X]

Which is crack-pot at best.

Oh Norcal and your rosy eyed glasses for Hunter. I love the guy too but let's not pretend he's not a political shark behind the scenes who's squashed more than one person's heat to inflate his own ego. The only person who was worse with that was Hogan in WCW.

[YOUTUBE]EV3h34tUIcQ[/YOUTUBE]

Yea, THAT dude totally shouldnt have been in the ME of WM a couple months later

Never said he shouldn't have been in the main event or that he wasn't over. I'm just explaining why Hunter squashed Jericho in the main event rather than face Austin, which would have made sense with the whole Two Man Power Trip angle before Hunter got hurt. If Hunter had faced Austin, he would have been the heel in that feud no matter what as Austin was still the most over dude on the entire roster. Same reason he didn't face The Rock either, which would have also made sense with their great past feuds. I mean you're trying to tell me they saw Austin-Triple H or Rock/Triple H and were just like "Nah, let's not score a huge buyrate, I don't like money" when they saw that feud and decided on the far less profitable feuds of Austin-Hall and Jericho-Triple H (which was basically just Triple H vs. Stephanie and Stephanie's bitch really). It's no coincidence that this was the beginning of Hunter's reign of terror and monopoly over the world title scene, as he and Steph were given head booking duties after the departure of Chris Kreski not long before this. I love Hunter too Norcal, but he's a political scheming cunt, just as his best buddy Shawn Michaels was. Everyone knows this.

Basically, there was no one else. Austin - Rock was done to death, and truly, it was supposed to be Hogan - Austin, but everyone in their right fucking mind knew what would happen with the crowd that night. The Rock respects the buisness, and went with it. Austin respects himself, and wouldnt. So, you get Rock - Hogan, Scott Hall doing a backflip after the stunner, and Triple H making his triumphant comeback.

Silly me, I forgot to mention Hogan's role in this, the all time hall of fame leader in being a raging political scheming cunt bag. No reason whatsoever he should have ever gone over Austin, Rock, or really anyone in 2002. The pops were nice and a quick title reign wasn't bad, but having him get clean wins over your big money draws who aren't completely washed up has-beens and they may rely on for long-term booking is/was stupid in my eyes. Then again I'm not exactly Hogan's number one fan.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Oh Norcal and your rosy eyed glasses for Hunter. I love the guy too but let's not pretend he's not a political shark behind the scenes who's squashed more than one person's heat to inflate his own ego. The only person who was worse with that was Hogan in WCW.



Never said he shouldn't have been in the main event or that he wasn't over. I'm just explaining why Hunter squashed Jericho in the main event rather than face Austin, which would have made sense with the whole Two Man Power Trip angle before Hunter got hurt. If Hunter had faced Austin, he would have been the heel in that feud no matter what as Austin was still the most over dude on the entire roster. Same reason he didn't face The Rock either, which would have also made sense with their great past feuds. I mean you're trying to tell me they saw Austin-Triple H or Rock/Triple H and were just like "Nah, let's not score a huge buyrate, I don't like money" when they saw that feud and decided on the far less profitable feuds of Austin-Hall and Jericho-Triple H (which was basically just Triple H vs. Stephanie and Stephanie's bitch really). It's no coincidence that this was the beginning of Hunter's reign of terror and monopoly over the world title scene, as he and Steph were given head booking duties after the departure of Chris Kreski not long before this. I love Hunter too Norcal, but he's a political scheming cunt, just as his best buddy Shawn Michaels was. Everyone knows this.

If by political shark you mean actual member of the creative team, sure.

Also, I think it really boiled down to them trying to get the biggest bang for their buck, the biggest overall mega card they could do. So you have Rock - Hogan, which is ginormous, and the story of Triple H making his made for movies comeback from destruction to win the title as your two main things. Like you said, no way he is THE face in a showdown with Austin, so why piss on his heat with that? Austin is still on the card, and still kicking ass, so it makes sense fine to me, to maximize the heat everyone had going at the time.

As for Hogan, dude he lost that match, lulz. The crowd turned him, no one else. Everyone knew it was coming, especially Austin. I have actually read before it legit WAS supposed to be Hogan and Austin (which makes perfect sense) and Austin wanted zero part of it. Hogan has repeatedly said he has no issue taking the fall. Shit, the rock beat him, in THAT MATCH. The crowd wants what it wants. if anyone knows that, Austin knows that.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

If by political shark you mean actual member of the creative team, sure.

Also, I think it really boiled down to them trying to get the biggest bang for their buck, the biggest overall mega card they could do. So you have Rock - Hogan, which is ginormous, and the story of Triple H making his made for movies comeback from destruction to win the title as your two main things. Like you said, no way he is THE face in a showdown with Austin, so why piss on his heat with that? Austin is still on the card, and still kicking ass, so it makes sense fine to me, to maximize the heat everyone had going at the time.

As for Hogan, dude he lost that match, lulz. The crowd turned him, no one else. Everyone knew it was coming, especially Austin. I have actually read before it legit WAS supposed to be Hogan and Austin (which makes perfect sense) and Austin wanted zero part of it. Hogan has repeatedly said he has no issue taking the fall. Shit, the rock beat him, in THAT MATCH. The crowd wants what it wants. if anyone knows that, Austin knows that.

uh how are you absolutely sure that hogan would have been cheered vs austin.read my earlier post.i think character matters a bit too in wrestling.im sure austin wouldnt have done the respect stuff with hogan

example take rock's promo

rock:how would you like to main event wrestlemania one more time against the rock

now imagine what austin would have said

austin:im gonna whip your ass at mania you melee mouthed bastard and thats the bottomline coz stone cold said so

now what do you think???

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

[YOUTUBE]EV3h34tUIcQ[/YOUTUBE]

I didn't get WWE programming in early 2002 but I have always heard about this pop.

From that reaction you'd think Jesus has come back and is gonna be spitting water into wine!

uh how are you absolutely sure that hogan would have been cheered vs austin.read my earlier post.i think character matters a bit too in wrestling.im sure austin wouldnt have done the respect stuff with hogan

example take rock's promo

rock:how would you like to main event wrestlemania one more time against the rock

now imagine what austin would have said

austin:im gonna whip your ass at mania you melee mouthed bastard and thats the bottomline coz stone cold said so

now what do you think???

Listen to the crowd reaction here when Hogan takes the stick:

[YOUTUBE]b7YI7ySPEb8[/YOUTUBE]

WWE fans are very nostalgic and have a good memory for their favorites.
Hogan can still come back to the WWE and sells seats. I ain't his biggest admirer but I know how the WWE fans, rather WWF fans, hold him very dear.

On a personal note, WMX8 was Rock vs Hogan.
I mean it was on all the posters, the media.
The only alternate if Hogan vs Austin would've been booked was
Rock vs Hunter.
True they have had innumerable battles in the past, but not one encounter was face vs face. This would've given this match a twist and could've been easily built as The Score-Settler!