WCW 1998: Was Chris Jericho ever primed to join the nWo Black & White?

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Chris Jericho had a match with Stevie Ray, who had not yet become a member of nWo Hollywood but was otherwise toiling away as a WCW heel in singles competition since Stevie's injury in 1997 along with Harlem Heat splitting up as a tag team with Booker T going on to a successful but solid singles career.

At one point, The Giant (nWo Hollywood) was doing a run-in and was supposed to do a chokeslam on Stevie Ray to set up the fact that Chris Jericho was going to join the nWo Hollywood faction. But in early 1998, Jericho already turned heel on his fellow Cruiserweight allies like Rey Mysterio. There were moments when Jericho assaulted Mysterio with a tool box, while badgering to fight Dean Malenko and then Bill Goldberg, who predictably declined to feud with a guy like Jericho.

Eventually, Jericho remained a WCW heel after his match with Stevie Ray, and Stevie went on to join the nWo Hollywood camp by August/September 1998. Both Jericho and Stevie Ray were already WCW heels, but one of them or both joining nWo Hollywood would not count as a heel turn. In fact, it would've been a mere change in alliance for both men.

The weirder part is when Jericho was fighting Curt Hennig a week or two later and The Giant came to his defense again, despite Hennig being with him in the nWo. The commentators made some comments about there being something personal as the reason, but it was never explained or referenced again.

 

[relentless1]

yeah I always wondered about that, they just dropped that Giant/Jericho angle completely but its WcW; they did that all the time.

I guess thats the origin for JeriShow though.

 

[sMark]

Where was Syxx at the time? My guess is X-pac could join Wolfpac, so he needed a rival in Hollywood, with Jericho being in that role. But since X-pac never resigned, there wasn't any need for Y2J in Black & White.

 

[Chris1-16]

Where was Syxx at the time? My guess is X-pac could join Wolfpac, so he needed a rival in Hollywood, with Jericho being in that role. But since X-pac never resigned, there wasn't any need for Y2J in Black & White.

He was in WWE at that point.

Anyways the storyline was supposed to eventually lead to Jericho joining NWO Black and White but Jericho realized that he didn't need to be apart of a faction, especially one lead by Hogan, to get over so they dropped it.

 

[relentless1]

Jerichos persona would've never fit in the nWo anyways, he wasn't that type of heel he was more flamboyant

 

[Papa Shango]

Jerichos persona would've never fit in the nWo anyways, he wasn't that type of heel he was more flamboyant

I think by that point the NWO could have used a comedy heel of Jericho's caliber. Hogan, Hall and Nash all thought they were hilarious, but by 1998 it was already obvious that they were not at all funny, just arrogant douches using their creative control clauses to bury every other talent, not just in matches, but in segments and promos as well.

I think it would've been pretty damn entertaining if Jericho had joined the NWO and continued taunting Goldberg, maybe with Hogan insinuating that Goldberg would never get a title shot without beating every member of the NWO first, with Jericho always volunteering but being ignored by Hogan until Jericho was the last member of the NWO standing between Goldberg and the World Title. Hell, they could have upped the ante and made it a No. 1 Contenders match. That would've been a great payoff to the angle.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Papa Shango : I think Hall and Nash were still hilarious, but not Hogan by 1998. Hogan was the arrogant brat using the creative control clause to bury every other talent (including Nash and Hall) across the board, in matches, segments and promos.

People paid more money to see Hall & Nash not Hogan.

 

[Papa Shango]

@Papa Shango : I think Hall and Nash were still hilarious, but not Hogan by 1998. Hogan was the arrogant brat using the creative control clause to bury every other talent (including Nash and Hall) across the board, in matches, segments and promos.

People paid more money to see Hall & Nash not Hogan.

Eh, I guess it's all relative. Scott Hall had his moments but I was never that big a fan of Kevin Nash. Average big man who was never as good on the mic as he may have thought he was. Certainly inferior to Hogan and Hall on the mic. Inferior to Savage too. And Bischoff, and even Giant and Konnan. Hell I think the only two Nash was better than on the mix may have been Waltman and Steiner lol

I'm sorry, I know it's not smart to joke about Scott Steiner. I fear he'll know. Dangerous, unbalanced and his biceps have bat-like hearing.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Papa Shango

Hogan was just a cartoonish supervillain rambler on the mic, he had Kevin Nash clean up his ramblings. So Hogan only looked good in the nWo because of Nash and Hall.

 

[Papa Shango]

I was always a WWF kid, so I didn't really like WCW that much. After the initial shock of Hogan turning, it didn't mean much to me. Just a bunch of tools eating up airtime. DX was much more entertaining, even if they were essentially a response to the NWO. Being the first rarely translates into being the best.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Papa Shango

I'm a WCW guy. BTW, Hogan needed to be carried by Hall and Nash, because Hogan can only work one style on the mic, and that's his trademark ramblin' Hulkamania hero style as a heroic babyface from '83-'84 to '95-'96.

Just like how Steve Borden (Sting) was always wacky on the mic and could only work one promo style as his Surfer Sting-style promo cutter from '87-'88 to '95-'96. That was one of the main reasons why Sting hardly talked at all when he had the mystique for Crow Sting for the remainder of 1996 and for all of 1997.

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

Back in 1998 - Jericho was just making it as a lower midcard heel. He then became the 3rd best thing in WCW at the time- 1) NWO, 2) Bill Goldberg and 3)Chris Jericho. Jericho could have become a big star in WCW because I remember at the time I only watched Nitro to see Jericho's heel promos and matches. I do not think he would have fitted in to NWO - he would have got lost in the mix. He did anyway in WCW -and a year later went to WWF - and never looked back.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The best thing Jericho probably ever did back in WCW was stay away from the NWO.

It allowed him to be an individual, and stand out as such... as opposed to to just being a part of the crowd that was the NWO where he wouldn't have had nearly as much opportunity to get himself over like he did.

 

[Makaveli31]

My guess is Hogan was going to use Jericho similar to what Nash was doing with Konnan at the time. Nash and Konnan were having alot of success clowning Hogan and making him look old and stupid. (Check out some of their promos on YouTube) Hogan resented that alot. With Hall in and out it would make sense Hogan would try to get another partner to help him clown Nash and Konnan back. I doubt their had any real plans for Jericho in terms of any kind of push so it was a smart move he either declined it or dropped it once Hall came back.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Yeah he would have been used to help keep Hogan, Nash, Hall... the rest of them over. He wouldn't have benefited himself, which is why it's such a good thing that he just got to stay away from the NWO black hole.

Think about it. WCW did not create too many of their own stars under Bischoff. Goldberg was obviously the biggest success, but Jericho was too (Jericho of course really got made once he went to the WWE, but he was able to build up a good enough rep in WCW). What is something they both had in common? They got to be individuals. Neither was linked to a faction (NWO, Horsemen, ect). That wasn't always the most common thing in WCW, and I think it helped them both stand out and get over.

 

[Chris1-16]

Back in 1998 - Jericho was just making it as a lower midcard heel. He then became the 3rd best thing in WCW at the time- 1) NWO, 2) Bill Goldberg and 3)Chris Jericho. Jericho could have become a big star in WCW because I remember at the time I only watched Nitro to see Jericho's heel promos and matches. I do not think he would have fitted in to NWO - he would have got lost in the mix. He did anyway in WCW -and a year later went to WWF - and never looked back.

The NWO was a joke in 98. Hall and Nash were mailing almost everything in and the only positive thing Hogan did was put over Goldberg which he had no choice but to do with Raw dominating at that point.

My guess is Hogan was going to use Jericho similar to what Nash was doing with Konnan at the time. Nash and Konnan were having alot of success clowning Hogan and making him look old and stupid. (Check out some of their promos on YouTube) Hogan resented that alot. With Hall in and out it would make sense Hogan would try to get another partner to help him clown Nash and Konnan back. I doubt their had any real plans for Jericho in terms of any kind of push so it was a smart move he either declined it or dropped it once Hall came back.

I don't see Hogan doing much to get Jericho over, he didn't help get anyone else in NWO Black and White over.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@Chris1-16

nWo was still okay in 1998. It only got to be a total joke when Vince Russo centered nWo 2000 around Jeff Jarrett and Bret Hard as the main leaders with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and Scott Steiner standing around in the background doing promo work, which is fine for those three, but not Jarrett or Bret Hard.

And you said Hall and Nash were mailing it in for WCW by 1998, but because Hogan getting his way via Mr. Automatic Creative Control route contributed to Hall and Nash also refusing to contribute anymore ideas after 1997-98. Others mailing it in in-ring wise by 1998 include The Giant, Curt Hennig, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Konnan, Lex Luger, Ric Flair, Bret Hard, Stevie Ray, Roddy Piper, Brad Armstrong, The Renegade, Ultimate Warrior, Hollywood Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Norton, British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart too.

It doesn't matter if people in the smark category look at you as mailing it in across the board, so long as your past reputation is already cemented beforehand. Hall and Nash are alright with me because I can't blame them for refusing to bother with fresh ideas by 1998 thanks to Hogan. In 1996, Hall was the guy that came up with the idea for Sting's gimmick change from Surfer Sting to Crow Sting, and gave Steve Borden some hints on the 1994 Crow movie starring the late Brandon Lee.

Surfer Sting was a poor draw compared to Hogan and Flair because WCW was second-rate to the WWF in the late-80s/early 90s because Sting kept his Surfer gimmick around the time when California surfin' was no longer cool by the late 1990s. Anti-heroes were on the rise, plus Hogan and Sting were both at a career crossroads with their clean cut hero gimmicks. Longtime WCW/NWA fans still loved Sting because the entire NWA/WCW lineage wasn't built on cartoon gimmicks, it was the 30-60 minute matches with Ric Flair that cemented him as a WCW fan favorite compared to the WWF bred Hulk Hogan who was more about his cartoon character Hulkamania gimmick. After Hogan's eventual heel turn in 1996, Sting was next in line for a character change and update. '95-'96 was when Sting shrunk from a fairly muscular athlete to a surgically-repaired skinny body (he underwent back surgery after the events of Fall Brawl '96 but came out of it hooked on alcohol, painkillers and had many adulterous affairs prior to converting to Christianity by 1998).

Sting's Guile-esque flattop and colorful face paint meant that he was more charismatic, but his kind of charisma was the same as Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner, Lex Luger, Chris Jericho and Hollywood Hulk Hogan instead of the more unique kind of charisma that Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Randy Savage, Konnan, Curt Hennig and Rick Rude had as the cool heels. So Surfer Sting did not translate to ultra high box office numbers and ratings. Hogan and the New World Order were the main draws for WCW of the late 1990s, not Sting or Goldberg, given Sting's past history as a disappointment in the box office department.

 

[Chris1-16]

@Chris1-16

nWo was still okay in 1998. It only got to be a total joke when Vince Russo centered nWo 2000 around Jeff Jarrett and Bret Hard as the main leaders with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and Scott Steiner standing around in the background doing promo work, which is fine for those three, but not Jarrett or Bret Hard.

And you said Hall and Nash were mailing it in for WCW by 1998, but because Hogan getting his way via Mr. Automatic Creative Control route contributed to Hall and Nash also refusing to contribute anymore ideas after 1997-98. Others mailing it in in-ring wise by 1998 include The Giant, Curt Hennig, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Buff Bagwell, Konnan, Lex Luger, Ric Flair, Bret Hard, Stevie Ray, Roddy Piper, Brad Armstrong, The Renegade, Ultimate Warrior, Hollywood Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Norton, British Bulldog and Jim Neidhart too.

It doesn't matter if people in the smark category look at you as mailing it in across the board, so long as your past reputation is already cemented beforehand. Hall and Nash are alright with me because I can't blame them for refusing to bother with fresh ideas by 1998 thanks to Hogan. In 1996, Hall was the guy that came up with the idea for Sting's gimmick change from Surfer Sting to Crow Sting, and gave Steve Borden some hints on the 1994 Crow movie starring the late Brandon Lee.

Surfer Sting was a poor draw compared to Hogan and Flair because WCW was second-rate to the WWF in the late-80s/early 90s because Sting kept his Surfer gimmick around the time when California surfin' was no longer cool by the late 1990s. Anti-heroes were on the rise, plus Hogan and Sting were both at a career crossroads with their clean cut hero gimmicks. Longtime WCW/NWA fans still loved Sting because the entire NWA/WCW lineage wasn't built on cartoon gimmicks, it was the 30-60 minute matches with Ric Flair that cemented him as a WCW fan favorite compared to the WWF bred Hulk Hogan who was more about his cartoon character Hulkamania gimmick. After Hogan's eventual heel turn in 1996, Sting was next in line for a character change and update. '95-'96 was when Sting shrunk from a fairly muscular athlete to a surgically-repaired skinny body (he underwent back surgery after the events of Fall Brawl '96 but came out of it hooked on alcohol, painkillers and had many adulterous affairs prior to converting to Christianity by 1998).

Sting's Guile-esque flattop and colorful face paint meant that he was more charismatic, but his kind of charisma was the same as Rick Steiner, Scott Steiner, Lex Luger, Chris Jericho and Hollywood Hulk Hogan instead of the more unique kind of charisma that Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Randy Savage, Konnan, Curt Hennig and Rick Rude had as the cool heels. So Surfer Sting did not translate to ultra high box office numbers and ratings. Hogan and the New World Order were the main draws for WCW of the late 1990s, not Sting or Goldberg, given Sting's past history as a disappointment in the box office department.

The NWO meant nothing for the ratings in 98, especially after the split, the only reason Nitro was still competitive with Raw in 98 was Goldberg getting the WCW Title. People weren't interested in seeing Hogan as champion anymore and it was clear they had no direction with what he was going to do during his reign and how he was going to lose it, Goldberg getting the belt wasn't in the plans until Raw drubbed Nitro following the KOTR. NWO 2000 was actually better than it was in 98 but it was cut short due to injuries, Hall and Nash were beginning to show some fire again too after sleepwalking throughout 1998 and 1999.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

@Chris1-16

nWo was still okay in 1998. It only got to be a total joke when Vince Russo centered nWo 2000 around Jeff Jarrett and Bret Hard as the main leaders with Kevin Nash, Scott Hall and Scott Steiner standing around in the background doing promo work, which is fine for those three, but not Jarrett or Bret Hard.

No, the NWO was showing itself to be played out by 1998.

When they split it into 2 factions, they got away from the entire purpose of the NWO, which was of course to take over WCW.

Now there was a heel NWO and a face NWO, and you saw 'WCW' guys like Sting and Luger joining the NWO? It made zero sense, and I know for myself... it was the point I went to only casually watching WCW. A lot of other people were the same as me too. Especially when you compared the never ending retread that was the NWO show with what was happening on the other channel with Austin, Rock, McMahon, Foley, ect, which was fresh, innovative and exciting.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

@MrMojoRisin

But Sting and Lex Luger were toiling away in the midcards for Team WCW in the early portion of 1998 given that Sting dropped the ball at Starrcade '97 vs Hogan, and Luger was only a stopgap option to be WCW's key player in the buildup to Road Wild '97.

With the emergence of DDP, Goldberg and the key acquisition of Bret Hart from the WWF to close out 1997, Sting and Luger were good as gone and expendable from WCW. Being in the Wolfpac really gave both Sting and Luger a boost because both of them were performing like midcard caliber guys in the weeks prior to both of the NWA-linear WCW guys to join the Wolfpac. Sting and Luger were over as WCW faces despite their card placement in their final days representing Team WCW, and both of them being in the Wolfpac meant that nWo Wolfpac can be more believable as fully-fledged faces.

Sometimes sacrifices have to be made, and Sting & Luger being busted down to the midcard ranks for Team WCW unfortunately was just one of them, if it meant that DDP, Goldberg and Booker T were ready to emerge as WCW's top stars alongside Ric Flair and Roddy Piper and using Sting's 1997 card placement for WCW's potential hot prospects.

I know you're gonna think about using the whole 'It's just like Ric Flair and Arn Anderson joining the nWo Wolfpac' card just because they both have beef with Hogan.