Wrestlemania XXX: Undertaker VS Brock Lesnar

Loved the undertaker since pre wwf days but he ain't got a great match in him now.

That tombstone that missed by a foot summed it up.

Legend. My only complaint was who was to beat him but build up was average and everyone was more concerned about streak at wm31 then if he could lose last night!
 
Thats the whole point, nobody expected it.

Taker isnt there anymore, even lesnar was holding back his physicallity and stiffness last night.
 
Undertaker is not one to take the limelight, Austin never announced his retirement from the ring he simply lost to The Rock on the big stage.
Losing his last match is absolutely the right way to go out. Undertaker understands the business and that is why he is a legend.
 
I think WWE probably should've changed the outcome mid-way through. The people weren't into the match and it was a lackluster way for The Streak to end. I'm didn't think it should end, but I don't really care that it has. I just feel that it would've been more impactful if people seemed to be investing it what happened before.

One of the main problems was that even before that match it was false finish city at Mania. And non of the commentary team seem to be able to sell a false-finish properly.

The saddest thing about this was that when it was all done and 'Taker walked through the curtain at the back, he had to maneuver his way througha gaggle of Diva's who likely had no idea what was going on.
 
...y'know, with precious few exceptions in ANY avenue of 'sports', both legitimate and entertainment, Legends fall in this exact same manner.

I think you could count on one hand the number of superstars in any venue who got to ride into the sunset as victors of the highest honors they could attain. The rest fall on their swords. They rarely get the chance to fall on their swords in the biggest competitions, or even to their true rivals, or even in the midst of a storyline that happily ties up all the loose ends.

Taker lost to Brock Lesnar, cleanly, in a storyline ultimately devoid of the fantasy booking the lot of us partake in. No Kane, no Cena, no Sting, not even a Young Buck to be pushed.

Name a Superstar from the history of any sport possible, and nearly always their end comes like Taker met his.
 
I know it sounds like a stupid title for a thread but as i watched the aftermath of the Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar match i noticed that the only wrestler from my childhood that still competed at the top level was all but finished.

The fact that the Undertaker might just of wrestled his last match made me think back to being that 9/10 year old who was genuine scared of the deadman, and i thought to myself "Thats it. there goes the last guy from the era i started with."

I know we still see the likes of Hogan, Warrior, Dibiase and such pop up but Taker was the last of these guys still doing it today at the top.

So anyway my point is has this happened to any of you guys yet??

Have you seen the last of the generation you grew up watching finish and if so who was it??

For the younger forum members who had the attitude era as their generation is it still going because the Rock still competes??
 
So, does this mean Mark Calaway comes out tonight and announces his retirement?

Of course, he can still fight Sting at WM31; in fact, it might be an even more attractive contest because Sting could possibly win it since there's no streak to defend..

Last night, if all 'Taker got from fighting Brock is a concussion, he's still coming out better than I feared he might.
 
Shock, anger, disappointment, disbelief, and utter sadness are all of the emotions that I felt last night as I watched my absolute favorite wrestler of all time lose the most impressive streak in wrestling history.

I even had tears in my eyes because it felt like, with the way the commentators and such were acting, that this was 'Taker's last match. That means my childhood icon, the very reason I started watching wrestling in the first place has finished entertaining us. If that's the case then I thank you 'Taker for all that you've given us and for all the happy memories you've given me. 'Taker was the last of my childhood and every time I'd hear that infamous gong I'd turn into that little boy again. I guess it's time I let that part of me go.

Thank you Undertaker. If every wrestler strived to be like you the WWE would be so much more amazing. I love you 'Taker.
 
I would hope that this isn't the end of the Undertaker. Then again, besides Sting, what's left for him? Cena? Since the streak is over that match has lost it's appeal. I would personally like to see Taker vs Sting next year especially since it won't be so predictable of an outcome now, but to be honest as I type this and realize what's left, I wouldn't mind Undertaker retiring.

We've heard before that if "The Streak dies, Undertaker dies"...the past several years Mania has been literally the only thing keeping him around and his mystique alive. Now that it's over JBL's "The Gunslinger is leaving town" reference is fitting not only for Mania, but his career.
 
Give Lesnar some credit. A lot of people (myself included) on here were worried about Lesnar's rough style wreaking havoc on Taker's brittle body, but he held back, and Lesnar tried to take easy on Taker throughout the match.

The match didn't live up to the hype, but I won't tear it apart, because Taker was on his last legs the other night. It was the last stand for a tough and resilient veteran, with the most prestigious winning streak in pro wrestling history. That's how I'll remember the match.

And I said this in another thread, but now we can see why WWE limited the physical altercations between these two during the build for the match. Physically, it's safe to say Taker's well being was hanging on by a thread, and Taker's injuries could've been worse with more contact on the road to Mania XXX.

The shock, when the ref counted to three is something I'll never forget. I literally sat in my chair motionless, without saying anything for minutes, and it really sunk in, when the 21-1 popped up on the big screen. Taker VS Lesnar couldn't match the quality of the Wrestlemania 28 match with Triple H or the Wrestlemania 25 match with Shawn, and some of use had high hopes for another Streak masterpiece, but you can't ignore the historical significance for 21-1.

As far as Lesnar goes, the WWE WHC is the next step for him. After breaking The Streak, it's the only option left. As far as heel heat goes, Lesnar is a made man for the rest of his WWE career, and I think we can forget about the "cool heel" pops. Lesnar could risk his life to save a burning building full of orphans, and the fans would still boo the crap out of him.
 
I know it sounds like a stupid title for a thread but as i watched the aftermath of the Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar match i noticed that the only wrestler from my childhood that still competed at the top level was all but finished.

The fact that the Undertaker might just of wrestled his last match made me think back to being that 9/10 year old who was genuine scared of the deadman, and i thought to myself "Thats it. there goes the last guy from the era i started with."

I know we still see the likes of Hogan, Warrior, Dibiase and such pop up but Taker was the last of these guys still doing it today at the top.

So anyway my point is has this happened to any of you guys yet??

Have you seen the last of the generation you grew up watching finish and if so who was it??

For the younger forum members who had the attitude era as their generation is it still going because the Rock still competes??


I'm with you. It was last night. On another board I saw someone post right after the match that their "childhood died in the ring with the streak". Its so true. I remember watching the Undertaker's debut being 12. Though then we sort of chuckled b/c we'd watched Mean Mark in the NWA just months earlier. I'm admittedly almost embarrassed to admit how much the streak ending affected me. Its scripted wrestling, The Undertaker didnt lose and I can't imagine a scenario where it happenned without his 100% support and most likely his idea. But that being said 23 years. Again I was 12 when he won his first Mania match. I'll turn 36 this summer. And Taker is/was the one wrestler that me and my dad agreed on really. Other of our favorite wrestlers the other didnt really take to as a favorite. But Taker we had in common.

I didn't watch Raw tonight. I am known to take breaks from WWE, or at least go down to only watching PPV's. I have the network and Im sure I'll spend months watching old events and keep up on the boards here but at this point I honestly just can't see myself wanting to watch current WWE for quite a while.

The product is just fine, it really is. Better imo than it has been in quite a few years overall. And im sure i'll be open up to ridicule but like the other poster said. My childhood died in the ring in New Orleans last night and ive yet to come to peace with it.
 
I was a poor match, Brock was working at half his level and Taker looked shot, his legs didn't seem to have anything in them. As for the finish? I was literally open mouth shocked just like the crowd. I was actually thinking as Brock hoisted him up for the 3rd F5 that they were gonna kill the move with a third kick out, and then the 3 count hit!

Amazing moment because it was so shocking, the crowd were actually flat for most of the match unlike the last few years as this seemed the most forgone result of all of them. I went from shock to marking out as I've always said it should end and I knew Taker would go out oldschool, they can now build Brock's heat from here to Mania 31.

I understand lifelong Taker fans being upset, I've never been a big Taker fan but have always respected him, and the key here is to respect the fact that this will have been his call 100%. I think many are questioning it being Brock but look at the emotion and anger, it's why Brock is the ideal choice and I think Taker probably realized this.
 
I know a lot of people here are still likely in shock and disbelief over Lesnar ending the Streak, and rightfully so. Before returning to face John Cena at Extreme Rules 2012 in an Extreme Rules match, Lesnar's last match with the company had been with Goldberg. At Wrestlemania 20, in both he and Goldberg's last match with the company. It was a total disgrace, and leaving or not, Lesnar and Goldberg were still getting paid. So be professionals, will you?

I say all of this to come to my point: Why in the world would WWE trust Brock Lesnar to so much as fight Undertaker at Wrestlemania, let alone end the Streak?And the answer came to me as I sat in shocked silence, watching the referee's hand come down and slap three.

Brock Lesnar was the last believable challenge to the Streak that WWE had left.

Sting? He's 55. While he's reportedly just signed a contract with the WWE, we don't know what it will be to do. John Cena? Cena and Bray Wyatt had been on a collision course since the Royal Rumble. And if you went with Cena, would you really turn Cena heel for one match? While WWE has certainly changed course before, they could so here, right? Reports were that Undertaker had requsted since 2010 to have Lesnar both end his Streak and likely his career. The worked-shoot ("wink-wink, nudge-nudge")Undertaker orchestrated after Lesnar's next-to-last UFC fight in Vegas was likely the beginning of the build-up to this. So why not Cena? Because I beliueve that while Cena and Wyatt had been locked in for this 'Mania for months, I believe Lesnar and 'Taker for Wrestlemania 30 years ago.

Having said that, plans can always change. But with the rotten way Lesnar has been booked since his return, what better way to boost his legacy and make him seem like a supreme threat to anyone then by having Lesnar end the streak? There are others ways, sure, but Lesnar has been mishandled in such an incredibly stupid way that he almost had to win this match.

As big of a John Cena mark as I am, Brock Lesnar should have won the match between the two. If Cena or WWE wanted him to 'get his win back', book a second match. He defeated HHH in 2 out of 3 matches, and I'm ok with the loss he suffered, actually. While HHH had HBK to run interference for him outside the ring and neutralize Paul Heyman's-including hitting Sweet Chin Music at a critical time on Heyman that allowed HHH to hit the pedigree on Lesnar- in the two matches that were truly 1 on 1, Lesnar won. Sure, Heyman interfered when he could, but he wasn't the physical threat to HHH that HBK was to neutralizing Heyman.

Nevertheless, this is when the bad booking of Lesnar came in. Lesnar was made to bleed at one point during the build-up to the match with CM Punk. 'A good big man will always beat a good little man' is a common saying in 80's martial arts mythology. Well, Lesnar is a great big man, and Punk, an average little one. Lesnar could also easily outwrestle Punk as well. Then why did Lesnar need Heyman to save his butt several times in the actual match against Lesnar, including breaking up the 1-2-3 after Punk hit the GTS on Lesnar?

He's then manhandled in the buildup with his match against Big Show. It got to the point where he needed about 20 chair shots before the match, and yes, his F-5 on Show while walking with him on his shoulders was impressive. But just as if he would likely have lost the match against Punk had it not been for Heyman, he would have lost his match against Show had it not been for the steel chair shots. During the build to the match with Show, he was manhandled every week, with the World's Larger Jobber tossing Lesnar around like he was nothing and no one.

Which leads us to the build-up between he and Undertaker for Wrestlemania. I suppose, with his record since returning, it made sense for him to be knocked around by 'Taker so easily. While he should have laughed off 'Taker's Bela Lugosi-esque mind games, he was frightened by them. He only got the best of 'Taker once during the build to their Wrestlemania match, and that was only due to a Paul Heyman distraction.

But finally, in the Wrestlemania match between the two, they got Lesnar's booking right. At first, I was just as angry as everyone else. Brock Lesnar, (1)part-timer extrordinaire, (2)beat Undertaker at Wrestlemania, breaking the Streak, (3)clean. (4)He has a mediocre record since returning, and he's beating Undertaker?:rolleyes: Sure he is...
From all the posts I've seen, these seem to be the four biggest complaints surrounding Lesnar defeating Undertaker. Let me try and set minds to ease regarding them.

1. Brock Lesnar is a part-timer: Undertaker wrestles less then Lesnar, and his only long-or PPV-match each year is at Wrestlemania. Lesnar is only 36, at what should be the peak of his wrestling career. The only matches that Lesnar has lost have been in No-Holds-Barred types of matches. This was not one of those. This was Brock Lesnar, -a former amateur wrestling champion- wrestling a broken-down, over-the-hill Undertaker. He is 49. Had this been Hell in A Cell, or No Holds Barred, I could see 'Taker winning. But in a wrestling match? It's easily advantage Lesnar.

2. He broke the streak: This is the hardest one for people to wrap their heads around, and it's a difficult point to argue. The arguments are: ("(a)Use Undertaker to build up an 'up-and-comer'"), ("(b)Have John Cena cheat and turn heel",) or the strongest of them all (c.)( "Have Undertaker retire undefeated.")
Using Undertaker to enhance an up-and comer doesn't really work anymore. When he faced Dean Ambrose on Smackdown, it would have made no sense for Ambrose to go over him. At the time, Ambrose was one of the top-if not the top- up-and-coming heels in the company. But what worked in bringing heat was having the Shieldattack and triple powerbomb after the match. With an up-and-comer, the bigger draw is for Undertaker to win, like he did against heel Randy Orton at Wrestlemania 21. Then have-like they didn't do after the Orton/'Taker match-(But did throughout the summer and fall, at times.)Orton beat 'Taker down.

As for Cena, it's the same reason he didn't hit Bray Wyatt with the chair on Sunday. Turning him heel removes your top guy from face to heel for the sake of one match and ending the biggest Streak in wrestling history. But being that it begins and ends after after one match, what do you do with Cena after? And who takes his place? With Punk gone, there's a large hole in the face department as is. Cena turning heel would leave a huge gap, and it's not easily filled by rushing a heel there.

Finally, the idea of having Undertaker retiring with the Streak intact is the best argument, to be honest. But if you're going that direction, don't pit him up against Lesnar in a wrestling match. Lesnar's only two losses since his return have been in Extreme Rules and No Holds Barred Matches, and Lesnar still dominated Cena in the first. So if you want Undertaker to retire with the streak intact(kayfabe-wise), it makes no sense for Undertaker to face a 13 years younger Brock Lesnar in a wrestling match. And still, Undertaker summoned all his other-worldly powers to kick out of two F-5's, while no one -not even in an Extreme Rules or No Holds Barred Match- has kicked out of more then one. If Undertaker is to leave 'Mania with the Streak intact, he needs to take a match more in his favor.

3. He beat Undertaker clean:And he's won all the matches he has according to the stipulation that was in place for each. Yeah, there's the whole 'Five-minute beatdown of Big Show before their wrestling match, but it within the rules of the match. It was dirty, sure, but Show has shown he could manhandle Brock in a shoot-fight style atmosphere. And even so, Lesnar was still hit by the KO punch, and he still kicked out. Then despite likely still seeing stars, he picked Show up and gave him the biggest F-5 I've ever seen -In the biggest feat of strength I've ever seen- when he carried him around for 10 seconds. So it's not unreasonable to think that after unleashing three F-5's, he could pin Undertaker, even at Wrestlemania. As I said before, no one else had ever kicked out of of more then one, so a beat-up, broken down Undertaker doing so wasn't unrealistic.

Yes, I know this was Wrestlemania, so it would have made more sense to have Lesnar win cheaply. However, Undertaker then goes out losing at Wrestlemania dirty, which would have people even more angry at the booking. Here, Lesnar gets to look like a beast as his career continues, and Undertaker(most likely) gets to retire as the only man to kick out of two F-5's. Yes, people are angry he lost clean to Lesnar, but they'ld be even angrier if Undertaker's last match was one in which he lost due to a Heyman distraction.

4. Lesnar has a mediocre record since returning: After defeating Undertaker, Lesnar's record is now 5-2 since returning. Even as the Cena mark that I am, if his first match back is against Cena, then Lesnar should have gone over. It's harder to argue the loss to HHH at Wrestlemania, because it was with HHH's career on the line. He was so desperate, he brought (an afraid of Lesnar) HBK to the ring with him, and Heyman's interference was neutralized. In the other matches he's won(2 against HHH, one against Punk, one against Show, one against Undertaker), he's simply fought according to the rules of the match.

The fact remains that despite the loss in his first match to Cena and the loss to HHH at Wrestlemania 29, he's still 5-2. It took a chain shot from Cena in a match he dominated to beat him, and interference from HHH's #2, HBK for HHH to win at 'Mania. In the match he needed to win absolutely clean, he did so. One could argue that it's how he should have been booked all along, but it was the proper booking.

A 36 year old Brock Lesnar wins a wrestling match against a beat-up, over-the-hill Undertaker, even at Wrestlemania. It was the correct way to book this match, angry fans or not. Especially if this was to be Undertaker's last match. And as much as many of us really don't like Brock Lesnar...

We should be good with Lesnar as the one to end the streak, especially if it's what Undertaker wanted.
 
Found a video on YouTube of some guys calling to complain after Taker lost his streak, and the voice mail was FULL. Insane how many people were affected by the loss. The arena was dead silent.

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccruDgumMP4[/YOUTUBE]
 

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