Austin Region, Third Round, Ultimate Pain Match: (1) Steve Austin vs.(8)Antonio Inoki

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the Austin Region. It is an Ultimate Pain match. It will be held at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas.

Rules: This match is won by pinfall or submission only, but before the fall, the opponent must be busted open. There are no countouts or disqualifications.

#1. Steve Austin

Vs.

#8. Antonio Inoki

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster. Assume that the wrestlers are coming in fresh after their first round match.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Tastycles]

It's a tough one this. I think Austin was busted open in a great majority of his big matches, so I see no reason why he wouldn't be here as well - the man was a big bleeder. However, he still won the vast majority of those big matches, and whilst Inoki is obviously a huge name, I don't think that he would have the kind of gravitas required to beat Austin in Texas. A bloody Austin wins.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

What a fucking war that match would have been. That's the only thing I have to say for now.

 

[Dave]

This match takes place in Dallas, Texas, right? Austin wins on that alone. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

I would love to be able to vote for Inoki and try to get him to move on to the next round but I can't do it. Not with this Stipulation or in this Arena.

Austin is a sadistic SOB when he needs to be and an absolute GOD in Texas. I just don't see him losing.

it sucks to because I really like Inoki

 

[Bernkastel]

Those that are looking at the location of this match and basing their decision off that alone are not looking at reality. Inoki had a working relationship with the McMahon's for years. They traded talent regularly. Inoki, as far as I know, was undefeated in McMahon controlled territory. There's no way he'd agree to this match unless the McMahon's agreed to do business with him as well.

This would likely be a co-WWE/NJPW promoted event. 20,000 fans might pack the AA Center in Dallas, but there might be an additional 50,000 fans packed in the Budokan in Tokyo, watching this match on closed circuit TV or satellite. This is how the the Inoki/Ali match worked. It was co-promoted by Inoki and the McMahon's. The Budokan drew a full house, while an additional 30,000 fans packed MSG. Inoki was just as shrewd a businessman as Vince Sr. or Jr. He would not sign on to lose. In return though he'd make sure that the WWE wrestlers looked stronger overall. Rock and Triple H would likely score victories over some of New Japan's finest. The McMahon's might receive a larger portion of the combined gates, but Inoki would be getting the win in the main event and the glory.

Look at the list of just some of the names that Inoki has defeated when he has promotional control...

Hulk Hogan
Andre the Giant
Lou Thesz
Ric Flair
Sting
Dusty Rhodes
Jack Brisco
Roddy Piper
Vader
Stan Hansen

...that's probably the most impressive list of legends by any wrestler ever. Certainly more so than Austin's.

Reality is Inoki doesn't agree to do this match unless the McMahon's do business with him. Reality is that Inoki defeats Austin regardless of location, because that's the type of shrewd businessman Inoki was. He would NOT agree to do this match just to put Austin over.

Inoki wins.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

We're in redneck country, and you expect me to believe the redneckiest wrestler of all time would be billed to lose? There'd be sodomy in the streets. No cousin would be safe.

When did Inoki defeat Hogan? From what I gather, Hulk Hogan vs. Inoki in 1983 was neither in Hogan's prime or a defeat for Hogan. They shared 37 points apiece, but since Inoki was knocked down it was technically a win for Hogan and he won the first International Wrestling Grand Prix because of it. So really Inoki put Hulk over before he really took off. How can I believe he wouldn't put Austin over who was the biggest thing since Hulkamania, while in Texas?

I have very little doubt Austin would be busted wide open. He was a bleeder. But I can't see Vince agreeing to his biggest star losing to anybody not from that promotion. With Mankind, Rock, and Trips sure, but the biggest star? I don't know, man.

If this was in Japan, absolutely. But not for the life of me can I see a Texan losing in Texas to a guy a majority of the home crowd aren't going to be very familiar with. Few today in America are familiar with Inoki outside of the awful Ali match, which was nothing more than a novelty that has never been repeated since, because it was awful.

Austin 3:16

 

[Bernkastel]

We're in redneck country, and you expect me to believe the redneckiest wrestler of all time would be billed to lose? There'd be sodomy in the streets. No cousin would be safe.

Yes, because Inoki would have been billed as some great conqueror from Japan fighting for nationalistic pride and all that jazz. WWE vs NJPW.

Inoki was an important business partner of the McMahon's. If he wanted to defeat Austin [and he WOULD have] in the States, and the money was right, the McMahon's would have definitely gone along with it.

When did Inoki defeat Hogan?

Several times actually. He pinned Hogan in 1980 in Tokyo while defending the NWF title. He forced Hogan to submit in 1981 during a match in Nagoya. He also holds several count out wins over Hogan as well.

How can I believe he wouldn't put Austin over who was the biggest thing since Hulkamania, while in Texas?

Because that does nothing for Inoki once he returns home. That would kill his momentum and any Japanese fan interest in a rematch. If Triple H and Rock were on the card, they would get victories over NJPW talent. That makes sense. WWE would still look like the stronger promotion overall. In return Inoki would win the main event, and tout himself as Japanese wrestling Jesus upon returning to his country.

I have very little doubt Austin would be busted wide open. He was a bleeder. But I can't see Vince agreeing to his biggest star losing to anybody not from that promotion. With Mankind, Rock, and Trips sure, but the biggest star? I don't know, man.

Money. Even if Inoki had to give a higher percentage of the co-promoted gate to Vince Sr. or Jr. he'd get the win. In the end, Inoki would be looking to further his reputation in Japan. And conquering one of the US's great champions would do wonders for that.

If this was in Japan, absolutely. But not for the life of me can I see a Texan losing in Texas to a guy a majority of the home crowd aren't going to be very familiar with. Few today in America are familiar with Inoki outside of the awful Ali match, which was nothing more than a novelty that has never been repeated since, because it was awful.

The Ali match was awful because neither party was willing to play ball with the other. Inoki wanted to win. Ali didn't want to lose. If the match had been legit like it was originally planned, Inoki would have embarrassed Ali and the sport of boxing. As far as monetary value goes, all party's made money. And that's the reality here.

If given enough money Austin will do a job to a foreigner, even in Texas.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

Several times actually. He pinned Hogan in 1980 in Tokyo while defending the NWF title. He forced Hogan to submit in 1981 during a match in Nagoya. He also holds several count out wins over Hogan as well.

Rikishi beat John Cena several times before Cena was a household name, too.



I've taken the time to create a list of every wrestler Inoki defeated in the United States, and in what year.

• Frank Morte ('75)
• Texas Red ('78)
• Hussein Arab ('79)
• Bobby Duncum ('80)
• David Schultz ('84)
• Adrian Adonis, Afa, Bob Orton Jr., Butcher Vachon, Charlie Fulton, Chief Jay Strongbow, Dick Murdoch, Jose Luis Rivera, Paul Orndorff, Rene Goulet, Ron Shaw, Samu, Sergeant Slaughter, Sika, Steve Lombardi, Terry Daniels, The Iron Sheik, Tito Santana, & Tony Garea [Battle Royal] ('84)
• Charlie Fulton ('84)
• Steve Williams ('85)
• Lord Steven Regal ('94)

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/antonio-inoki-681.html?pg=4


It's not very impressive, to tell the truth.

You say Vince McMahon (Jr or Sr) would have had no problems with letting Inoki politic his way to defeating a prime Austin in Texas. But the records show the McMahons didn't let Inoki anywhere near his biggest talents, outside of maybe Slaughter and Iron Sheik in a Battle Royal, of all things. If we're going by reality, Inoki fought and defeated men in the United States that weren't of the same caliber as Stone Cold. He'd be lucky to even beat The Rock and Triple H, now that the evidence is clear. Inoki was a spectacle. He was not, however, larger than the biggest names in American wrestling, at least not on American soil. Outside of that Battle Royale, who did he really defeat? Which ones when they were in their prime?

This is Steve Austin's and history shows it's not even close. Could Inoki have influenced McMahon to let him beat Austin? Sure. But the records show he didn't so that's not as grounded in reality as one should expect.

 

[Bernkastel]

You say Vince McMahon (Jr or Sr) would have had no problems with letting Inoki politic his way to defeating a prime Austin in Texas. But the records show the McMahons didn't let Inoki anywhere near his biggest talents, outside of maybe Slaughter and Iron Sheik in a Battle Royal, of all things.

Those were not on cards that were co-promoted by Inoki though. Inoki was given those wins by WWE as a sign of good faith. To show they valued him not only as a popular internationally known wrestler, but as a valuable business partner. That part of my argument seemed to have gone completely over your head.

Defeating Piper, Slaughter, or Iron Sheik in the States is one thing. A mega star like Austin is another. Inoki wouldn't travel to the States to fight a wrestler as popular as Austin without something in return. He didn't need money. WWE throwing a bunch of money at Inoki to job wouldn't make sense when he ran a successful promotion back in Japan. What he'd be seeking would be to further his reputation, so that when he returned to Japan he could make even more money. That's my argument here.

If we're going by reality, Inoki fought and defeated men in the United States that weren't of the same caliber as Stone Cold.

Wins that were given to him as a sign of good faith, and did absolutely nothing to bolster his reputation once he returned to Japan. And on cards that weren't co-promoted by Inoki himself.

This is Steve Austin's and history shows it's not even close. Could Inoki have influenced McMahon to let him beat Austin? Sure. But the records show he didn't so that's not as grounded in reality as one should expect.

The evidence that you presented wasn't even relevant to my argument. Look at the Collision in Korea. The show was co-promoted by Inoki and WCW. WCW aired the show as a PPV in the States, and Flair along with a host of other WCW talent were on loan. Inoki won that match. Why do you think that was? So that Inoki could further his reputation.

Look at Inoki vs Ali. It was originally supposed to be Ali vs Bruno, but WWE didn't want to pay the 6 million dollar fee that Ali had wanted. Inoki and NJPW picked up the match and Ali's services instead. WWE co-promoted the fight. That's why Andre appeared on the under card and 30,000 fans were packed into MSG to watch the fight on closed circuit TV. The match was designed to bolster Inoki's reputation.

Steve Austin was a major star. This proposed match is not a "good faith" match like the battle royals Inoki won. Inoki certainly would not have seen it that way. He didn't need WWE's money. What he would have wanted would be to further his reputation, and that's the core of my argument. You even admit that if the business deal was good Inoki could have pressured the McMahon's into giving him a win over Austin, regardless of location.

And that's the true reality here. Even if he had to surrender half the gate to the McMahon's, Inoki would have gotten his way. A win over Austin would have allowed him to boost his rep in Japan to the point where he would have seen returns on his investment for years to come. He was just as good at playing hardball as Jr. or Sr. This is one of those rare encounters in this tournament where being a promoter with great business relationships actually helps a wrestler win a wrestling match.

It's Inoki win my friend.

 

[Dragon Chief]

Is there really a point in having Austin go through this process? He's going to make it to the semi finals regardless of who he battles.

 

[Cena Is A Punk Rocker]

This is another of the popularity contests that happen during these tournaments. Nothing really wrong with it. Wrestling was built upon it. Vote Austin.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

We're in redneck country, and you expect me to believe the redneckiest wrestler of all time would be billed to lose? There'd be sodomy in the streets. No cousin would be safe.

When did Inoki defeat Hogan? From what I gather, Hulk Hogan vs. Inoki in 1983 was neither in Hogan's prime or a defeat for Hogan. They shared 37 points apiece, but since Inoki was knocked down it was technically a win for Hogan and he won the first International Wrestling Grand Prix because of it. So really Inoki put Hulk over before he really took off. How can I believe he wouldn't put Austin over who was the biggest thing since Hulkamania, while in Texas?

I have very little doubt Austin would be busted wide open. He was a bleeder. But I can't see Vince agreeing to his biggest star losing to anybody not from that promotion. With Mankind, Rock, and Trips sure, but the biggest star? I don't know, man.

If this was in Japan, absolutely. But not for the life of me can I see a Texan losing in Texas to a guy a majority of the home crowd aren't going to be very familiar with. Few today in America are familiar with Inoki outside of the awful Ali match, which was nothing more than a novelty that has never been repeated since, because it was awful.

Austin 3:16

Their last match was June 13, 1985.

Inoki won.

Right when Hulkamania was taking off. He lost to Inoki.

To be honest, the only real argument I can see for Austin here is the location.

- Yes he was the biggest star in the business, but he still lost a lot when he was at his peak (at least for someone at his level). Inoki rarely ever lost at his peak, and in Japan, his star power rivaled Austin's in America
- No McMahon wouldn't want his star losing, especially this early... but Inoki wouldn't want to lose this early either, and would have had a lot more pull there than most realize.
- I think you have to assume that the crowd is smart enough to be aware of who Inoki is, so even the Texas crowd would know that their hometown boy was in for the fight of his life

If you just take this down to who was better? Than Inoki takes this one.

Vote Inoki