Cena Region, Fourth Round, TLC Match: (2) Bret Hart vs. (6) Harley Race

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match in the Cena Region and it is a Tables Ladders and Chairs. It will be held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York. Assume one week has passed since the last round, meaning all injuries might not have healed.

Rules: A briefcase is hung above the ring and the first person to pull it down wins. Tables, ladders and chairs are available for both wrestlers to use and anything goes.

#2. Bret Hart


Vs.

#6. Harley Race


​

Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.


Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Bret basically had the ladder match invented in his territory so gotta give some advantage to the Hitman. Bigger star, more appeal, and is from an era closer to the TLC so he will have some tips going into the match.

Bret Hart for me.

 

[Coco]

Bret Hart's peak was a stop-gap between two greater peaks. Bret's time on time was a slump in business. The notion that he was a bigger star compared to what Race was within the context of his time is nonsense. Bret was a step down. Meanwhile, Race was a fact of life at the top of the NWA for one of it's greatest decades.

Come on, PG. Let's not pretend that being slightly more modern makes Bret a gimmick specialist who runs away with this. That's not at all convincing.

 

[Cena Is A Punk Rocker]

Race beats the shit out of Bret Hart here. Climbs the ladder for the win. Vote Race.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Bret Hart's peak was a stop-gap between two greater peaks. Bret's time on time was a slump in business. The notion that he was a bigger star compared to what Race was within the context of his time is nonsense. Bret was a step down. Meanwhile, Race was a fact of life at the top of the NWA for one of it's greatest decades.

Come on, PG. Let's not pretend that being slightly more modern makes Bret a gimmick specialist who runs away with this. That's not at all convincing.

No it doesn't, it just gives them TV exposure which in turn gave them global exposure in the 90s.

But there is one advantage he has, and that is basically coming from a region where the ladder match was invented. A match as gimmicky as this needs some sort of gauge and maybe just maybe, Bret edges this because this match is closer to his era.

Not adverse to Race winning.

 

[NSL]

I voted Race over HBK, and would vote him over Hart here, except they went through very different matches last round. A hardcore match against HBK, who can bring the pain as well as anyone, is vastly different than a basic match against Lawler, where the only other objective is climbing to the top turnbuckle essentially.

Race would make this close, and it would still be a great match to see, but Hart gets my vote.

 

[nightmare]

I am pretty sure word traveled from Canada on how to win this match type, so it isnt like Harley has no clue. Plus I bet the guy has climbed up a time or two fixing his roof being a real mans man & all, so who cares where the match started? Not hard to figure out.

Hart was big, Race was bigger & tougher. Bret is by no means a slouch & this will be great, but nobody has a match advantage. It comes down to who was a bigger draw & who is tougher. That is Race all day.

 

[Bernkastel]

We as a community have just voted Harley Race over Shawn Michaels. I'm not totally sure if it was because the majority thought that Race was better and deserved the win, or if some are still sore over what happened last year. What I am sure of is that Shawn is superior to Bret in just about every way, and not voting Harley Race to win this match would just be incredibly fucking stupid. Like Bret beating Warrior last year levels of stupid.

I have no idea what exactly compels people to vote Bret Hart. Was he your favorite growing up? Is it his execution and workrate? His psychology? Or maybe you just like men that wear pink. None of that matters in the face of Harley Race. Race was one of the most successful NWA champions, who based his whole career on his reputation that he was better than everyone else. And he must have been when you have guys like Triple H trying to emulate every part about the guy decades later. Name me one wrestler on the level of Triple H that has ever emulated Bret Hart like Trips has emulated Harley? I don't think such a person exists.

Harley was a bigger star than Bret. He was tougher than Bret. It would take more than an erratic superkick by Goldberg to put this guy down. Harley was a better champion than Bret. Even though the entire wrestling industry was in a slump in the 70's the NWA was still the most profitable wrestling conglomerate around. WWE nearly went bankrupt under Bret's watch. He was not a strong draw as champion, and probably would not have been chosen to wear the NWA strap more than once in Harley's time even with his grappling pedigree. He would have likely primarily been a top regional star like Dick Murdoch, or Bobo Brazil, or Dick Slater, or Wilbur Snyder, or Wahoo McDaniel. Certainly not a former 8 time world champion like Race.

In a type of match like a TLC I could easily see Harley taking the win here. I feel WWE would go with the guy that could give them a bigger payday in the next match against Cena this late in the tournament, and that would be Race.

Vote Harley.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

Thank god Race won over HBK or we would have the annual HBK vs Bret Hart arguement again in this tournament.

 

[enviousdominous]

Two favorites of mine, and I have to pick one. You guys are killing me.

I have to go with Harley Race on this one. The biggest thing for me is "anything goes".

While Bret has shown that he's willing to become sadistic in a match that allows rampant sadism, he doesn't hold a candle to Harley Race. Both in terms of how much either man can give and in terms of how much either man could take.

Bret's most aggressive moment, to my knowledge, was when he threw Stone Cold into a guard rail that (kayfabe) split the skin of his fore-head open. Harley... he's made chumps of some of the most extreme practitioners of hardcore wrestling. Harley has thrown down with The Sheik, Tiger Jeet Singh, Abdullah the Butcher, Stan Hansen and Bruiser Brody.

We have to imagine that both men are fighting to win, and not to make the other look good. I see Harley Race as being more capable of persisting long enough through cringe worthy chair and ladder spots to get the briefcase and the win.

Vote Harley Race.

 

[Tastycles]

A lot of the arguments here rely on the fact that Harley Race won a load of hardcore matches or beat hardcore wrestlers. In my recollection, Bret Hart very seldomly lost gimmick matches, and beat Stone Cold Steve Austin bloody at WrestleMania 13. Hart wrestled at a time when more people were going to wrestling and when good wrestlers needed to became much more of a complete package than just 'tough' or 'a good worker'. Hart was those things, but he was able to relate emotionally to the crowd, and for me that's what is most important here.

 

[Hulkamaniac]

This was a tough one. In the end I went with Harley. I almost immediately second guessed my vote, but it's in already, haha. Race can be viewed as a sort of proto-Austin in a lot of ways/attitude. And we all remember what happened between Austin and Hart in a gimmick match. I think this a SUPER close match, but with the added ability to use weapons, Race takes the match. I don't feel great about it, though.

 

[stblink]

I voted for Bret Hart

The TLC match should favor Bret, because Bret is the better wrestler.
Bret is much quicker than race and size wise Race wasn't much taller or bigger than Bret.
Race was stronger than Bret, but Bret's speed and technical ability should win him the match.