Lord knows I respect you as a poster, but me thinks you couldn't be further off here.
I'm aware of Cena's tenacity, but Flair's found every different way to win lots of matches. What Flair's more known for is capitalizing on mistakes. He did that with Steamboat in their blowoff to regain the title, he's done that against Rhodes, Jimmy Garvin, Macho Man, and every other wrestler you can conjure up. The Figure Four won't beat Cena, but it'll damage Cena enough to make a mistake and lose to Flair.
Why? What submission finisher in the past has damaged Cena to the point where he made a mistake and lost the match? Other then his match with against Rock at Wrestlemania 2012, where has he made a mistake that's cost him a one on one match? If anything, Cena is the one who's capitilized on countless mistakes from over-aggressive competitors, and caught them in the STF. And unlike Cena, Flair
has tapped to babyfaces, all less powerful then Cena.
If anything, Cena's mistake against Rock at Wrestlemania has made him a smarter competitor, and he'll head into this match aware of the mistakes he's made, and not make them again.
I know it's just a regular match, but you've got to realize that Flair doesn't make that mistake and when Cena does something that bone-headed, he'll pay for it.
Flair has indeed made that mistake, it was his cockiness that cost him against Steamboat when it was the "Ladies Man" vs the "Family Man." The same goes for his title loss against Garvin. On other occasions, he's needed the Horseman to save him with interference to DQ him and save his title.
He won't have that luxury here, as a DQ costs him the match. And should the Horseman interfere, Cena's shown the ability to fend off interference and still win matches.
He's let his guard down numerous times. And the payback came in the form of a second match, which Cena will not get this time. Cena's too cocky for his own good and Flair is the "Dirtiest Player in the Game". He'll find a way to win and come out on top in this bout.
He's let his guard down when, other then Rock? When he had MITB cashed in on him? When Batista beat him after he won the Elimination Chamber? He was gassed after long matches, and facing fresh competitors. That won't be the case here.
When, in a standard one on one big match first meeting against a heel has Cena let his guard down and lost? You keep bringing up the arrogance of Cena, which occured in
one match in his entire career. I can't think of other instances where Cena's cockiness cost him a match. If anything, it's Flair arrogance that would be his downfall, as he's shown himself to be far more cocky then Cena has ever been.
And again, Cena, in a standard one on one match, has generally won the first match of his feuds with heels. And when it's been one and done against a top heel, Cena wins. I can't think of an occasion where he hasn't in his prime. Even against the most technical of wrestlers, Kurt Angle, Cena beat him over and over despite interference and Kurt's experience advantage when Cena was just entering his prime.
A prime of eight years with one major mistake in a single's match says otherwise.
None of those wrestlers are better than Ric Flair. And in most of these bouts, Cena's lost the previous encounter or has been bested in some fashion. Flair's rarely bested when the chips are down.
I didn't say they were, with perhaps the exception of HBK. And again, in big matches, Cena generally wins the first match in feuds, unless it was a gimmick match or a cash-in/screwjob of some point. They weren't the occasion of the chips being down, they were the deck stacked against Cena in insurmountable odds.
And in the cases of Edge and Batista, when they faced off in their first one on one match(as heels), Cena made Edge tap out at Royal Rumble 2006, and Batista at Wrestlemania 26.
Against wrestlers not as good as Flair.
In Wrestlemania and PPV main events when the odds were stacked against him against the best heels of his generation. Against a variety of competitors. Hell, he beat Kurt Angle when Angle had his
own personal referee. You're arguing that Cena loses when the chips are down, or odds are against him, but he was facing a ten time World Champion in HHH in his first WM main event, and he made him tap out. He faced his DX partner in HBK at next year's main event, and made him tap out.
In each of these cases, Cena adapted during the course of the match. He was out-wrestled at first by veterans, yet adapted, and caught each wrestler in mistakes to make them tap.
Flair may work Cena over early, and even catch him in a figure four, but Cena will do what he's done to every other prime wrestler he's faced: He'll adapt, catch him in a mistake(likely Flair's trademark arrogance), and make him tap or beat him with the AA.
Further, Cena's wrestled one Loser Leaves WWE match, and two "If Cena loses, he leaves Raw" matches, and he's won them all. Flair's loser leaves WWF match? He lost it to Mr. Perfect, who's far less of a star then Jericho, Edge or Orton, Cena's foes in his matches.
Those are as high stake matches as they come.
Yea, when Flair's came against top faces in DIFFERENT TERRITORIES, he's came out on top.
Yet this is a neutral territory, which lends to an advantage for neither man.
And Cena's done the same thing in big matches against top heels. The territory days are long gone. But as example, Cena went into Edge's hometown, the top heel at the time, and beat him in
Edge's match. One he never lost
before or after.
And that's just one example.
Has not. Cena's only a cog in the wheel. Hogan CREATED that revenue generating ability and Austin resurrected it to bigger status. Cena's barely treading water when it comes to drawing the WWE money. Ric Flair made promotions around the world mega bucks just on his matches alone. That's without t-shirts, social media, and the internet.
Cena's the cog that makes the entire damn wheel run. And to suggest that Cena's only "treading water" based on his Wrestlemania gates from the past two years and his incredible merchandise sales, he's far above treading water, he's WWE's biggest draw, by far.
Question? Where will Cena be at 45?
You're avoiding the point that Cena has been far more successful in terms of title reigns then Flair at his age when compared to Flair.
I'm predicting he'll be retired and considered a footnote in the grand scheme of the WWE. Flair was still given the reigns at 45 because he could carry the ball and make the title mean something. Cena won't be given that luxury.
That's speculation, and a poor attempt at that. The undeniable face of the company with 13 title reigns(with more likely to come) won't be a "footnote", he'll be a Hall of Famer soon after he retires and remembered as one of, if not the greatest, Superstar of all time.
And as Cena has shown over his 8 years at the top, he'll be able to carry the ball and make the title relevant. He'll be main eventing PPV's with it and anyone who gets a win over him will be made, like he did for Punk, Orton and Edge.
And while will Cena be retired at 45, exactly? His passion for the busines is equal to Flair's, and it's not as if wrestlers like HBK or Undertaker were retired around that age, so why would Cena? He's better conditioned then any wrestler in the business, so why is it unconceivable that Cena won't be wrestling still at that point?
It's far more likely that Cena will have topped Flair's 16 World Title wins record by then rather then retired. And there's nothing in his track record to suggest he'll be a footnote, rather, he'll be an icon that he's already pushed as by WWE.
He lost two of those main events and lost one of them to the FUCKING MIZ! The. Miz.
My quote was that he's won 3 Wrestlemania main events, he's competed in five. And his loss to the Miz wasn't in a standard one on one match. In was in a No-Dq, No countout match, where he was Rock Bottomed.
Again, this isn't that match.
And won his first Wrestlemania main event this year.
No, he won his first Wrestlemania main event in his first try and Wrestlemania 22, when he made HHH tap out. He then won his 2nd in 2 tries the following year, when he made HBK tap out. Both in their first encounters. His win against the Rock this year was his
third Wrestlemania main event
win.
Flair was his own Wrestlemania when he came around. Flair was headlining events in the Orange Bowl, Tokyo Dome, and Texas Stadium when Cena was peeing in his diapers.
Not always, and when Flair came to the Northeast, he was often not the main event of the card, as he simply wasn't the biggest draw. And seeing how this is a one night tournament, the draw is the 8 wrestlers, not Ric Flair himself.
And what happened to Flair when he came to Jack freaking Venero's territory? How about Antonio Inoki's?
If you space those out, those are losses he had once about every two years. Garvin's win was a fluke that he avenged a month or two later. And Flair's beaten Sting as routinely as Sting beat him.
Yet that can't be said about any heel Cena has faced.
Austin says hello. And you know who Hogan and Austin say is the best wrestler they've ever seen? Ric Flair.
Cena, by virtue of spending more time on top then Austin, has generated more revenue for the WWE then Austin did. And if this was about being the
best wrestler alone, the likes of Hogan and Andre the Giant wouldn't be here in the final 8.
It's about who would win in a kayfabe match.
You watched Cena's promo's right? That match was 'Once in a Lifetime' and he 'had something to prove'. He obsessed over it and what happened to him? He lost because he was a cocky jerk who ended up with egg on his face.
Of course I did. But Rock was a super-face, Flair a mega-heel. And, as I already pointed out, Cena's learned from his mistake against Rock, and hasn't made it again, against Rock or any other competitor. And you're speaking of a competitor in Flair whose entire career was based around him being a 'cocky jerk', and it has cost him in the past, against both Steamboat and Sting, amongst others.
And the 'cocky heel' is exactly the one Cena has gone over again and again throughout his prime.
And trust me, Flair's a lot dirtier and more calculating than Rocky.
You're depending on Cena to make a mistake like the one he did against Rock, and he won't against Flair.
If anyone can do that to Cena, it'll be Flair.
But he won't.
Flair made a living out of making the face look like a billion dollars, then let them make a mistake, then the face tries to make one last effort to win, only for Flair to either get a roll-up, the Figure Four, or a fist full of rolled up quarters or brass knucks.
The roll-up(Cena's strength) nor the figure four(he doesn't tap) will beat John Cena, and Cena's kicked out of brass knucks and sledgehammer blows in major matches. What does Flair have left to beat Cena?
And Cena's 'last effort' to win, time and time again, has lead to his opponent trapped in the STF, tapping out.
After about a half hour with Flair, he'll be ripe for the picking. Cena will be so gassed, he'll take a nap and Flair will just cover him for the pin. I jest, but Flair's on a different level than any other heel Cena's ever faced.
Doubtful, as Cena has gone longer then a half hour numerous times, and has never been ripe for the picking. He may never have faced a heel like Flair, but Flair's never faced a "prime" face like Cena either.
And history shows that Flair has lost far more to prime faces then Cena has to prime heels.
Whatever helps you rationalize you pick. Cena hasn't been a true face in nearly 4 years.
If he behaves like a face, wrestles clean like a face, and overcomes the odds like a face, it means he's a face. Mixed crowd reactions don't determine "heels" or "faces", their actions do.
So was Luger. And true, Luger was a fad, but when the Lex Express started, he was slated to be the next big thing and even managed to get a win over Yokozuna when Yoko was billed as a killer. Cena's been given more to work with, but their styles are similar and Flair had little trouble with Luger.
Cena has a far more diverse repotoire then Luger ever did, is more resilient then Luger ever was, and has stood the test of time for far longer then Luger ever did. And Luger's matches against Yoko were won by countout, and lost by DQ, hardly definitive victories.
Luger was a mid-carder briefly elevated to main event status only due to a Sting injury. Flair's not facing a mid-carder here, he's taking on the face of the WWE for the past 8 years. The comparisons of Cena to Luger are laughable, as the comparisons to Hogan are far more realistic then you'ld like to admit.
In Flair's prime, NOBODY had that top spot except for Flair. Rhodes, Sting, and others wanted a piece of the pie. When he got around to Savage, Hogan, and others, he was past his prime. In Flair's peak, he was unstoppable and rarely lost his title belt.
Except for those losses to Jack Venero(never recognized), to an over-the-hill Harley Race, Sting, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, and Kerry Von Erich in one on one matches. And none of those men are on the same level as John Cena.
Cena's fought for his spot since he got there. Edge, Batista, HHH, Brock, Angle, and others could have easily took Cena's spot, but they simply couldn't handle the work-load Cena had. And Flair worked a much, MUCH tougher schedule. Flair's motto was "Everyday, and twice on Sunday." No way Cena could possibly do that.
Cena has been the unquestionaly top face except for the first 3-4 months of his prime, and he quickly and easily overcame Batista for that spot. And if those men could have taken Cena's spot, they would have, because the Edge's, Batista's Angle's and HHH's
were working the same schedule Cena did,yet they didn't overcome Cena for the spot.
Why? Because Cena was unquestionably the man. And with the demanding schedule Cena already keeps combined with his work ethic and passion for the business, there's no question he could work the schedule Flair did if needed.
Not in Flair's prime he didn't. You're combining his days after his NWA Title runs to make your point. My point is a Flair in his prime doesn't lose to Cena. He'd be another territory champion he'd overcome and move to the next town for.
I'm combining the body of his work in his prime to make my point. Part of his time with the NWA title belt took place in WCW, did it not? He was in his prime then, and many of his high profile losses took place then, still in his prime.
And even before the NWA was consolidated with WCW, he lost the title to Von Erich, Race, Rhodes and Venero, in territory matches. None of those men with near the star power as Cena.
It's drawing power. People want to see Flair more than Cena. And that's just a fact. Flair right now gets a bigger pop than current Cena does.
In Charlotte, perhaps. Flair's last few appearances on Raw have been met with surprisingly mediocre response, as compared to Cena, who always elicits a reaction from every fan in the arena. Fans pay to see Cena, whether it be to see him win or lose, they pay to see him.
It's not a fact. It's speculation, and based on Flair's recent appearances and Cena's reaction
everytime he appears, you're wrong.
In reality, actually.
