Int Region, Seattle Subregion, First Round: (15) Scott Hall vs. (18) Sgt. Slaughter

[klunderbunker]

This is a first round match in the International Region, Seattle Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under International Rules, meaning the match is held under the standard rules of the country the match is held in. It will be held at the Key Arena in Seattle, Washington.

#15. Scott Hall

Vs.

#18. Sgt. Slaughter

​

Polls will be open for three days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm torn here.

On the one hand we have Scott Hall. A man who was decent in the ring and on the mic and who is a founding member of quite possibly the biggest wrestling angle in the history of the business.

Then you have Sgt. Slaughter. A man who has had success if multiple wrestling organizations and a man that is a true legend of the business. Slaughter beat Warrior for the WWE Championship and instantly went into one of the most memorable angles in WWE history against Hulk Hogan for WM 7. During that time period, there was no one getting as much heat as Slaughter.

I really don't know who I should vote for here. I'm leaning towards Slaughter, however, I can be swayed. Let's see how the debate goes.

 

[Brewski]

Maybe I'm missing something, but apart from Scott Hall's notoriety from the NWO days what makes him have the advantage over Slaughter here? Slaughter is one of the most hated heels of all time and a WWF champion. I think he easily goes over here.

Going into Wrestlemania 7 Slaughter got so much legitimate hatred with his Iraqi sympathizer angle. Yeah, it was a pretty dirty picking on American's emotions durring the gulf war, but it's not like that hasn't been done before or since then. His feud with Hogan was huge and is a vital moment for the legacy of the hulkster. The whole angle is really memorable and is one of the first things that comes to mind when I think of that era in wrestling history.

The NWO's importance to wrestling probably outweighs the Slaughter/Hogan feud but that was a group and an idea, not just one guy. Hall played a key role but angle was much bigger than just him. Hall's career isn't that great IMO. Great tag team wrestler, multiple time intercontinental champ. Sure he was a better wrestler than Slaughter but not by much. A better taler? yeah but not by much.

Slaughter is remembered as a cartoon character because everyone was at that time, I think thats what holds him back at all here. Hall probably could have been a World champion in WWF or WCW but was never trusted with the task. Slaughter had a very memorable run with the belt and just accomplished more.

Slaughter wins this match.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

This one is pretty easy...

You've got Scott Hall, a man who could have been but never was. He was a career mid-card wrestler that fucked away all opportunities by heralding drugs as his champion above all else. He had a few memorable matches along the way, mostly to do with who he was working with more so than anything else. Sure, Hall helped introduce us to the nWo, but he was never truly a MAJOR part of it, especially once Hogan got the reins. His biggest claim to fame from the nWo era was tagging along with his buddy Nash and "Hey Yo!", oh and tazering Goldberg.

As good as Scott Hall was on his best night nobody ever bought a ticket to specifically see him. On the other hand, a LOT of people bought tickets to solely see Sgt. Slaughter beat the shit out of the Iron Sheik in the mid 80s. Slaughter was portrayed as THE American Hero, and that's what made his heel turn as an Iraqi Sympathizer that much more of a heat magnet. Slaughter went over the Warrior to capture the belt, and embroiled in a bad ass feud with Hogan for what seemed like ages. Main Eventing WM7 with Hogan in one of the hottest angles ever, yeah, that's a pretty big deal.

Those are just a few of Slaughter's accomplishments, and they're bigger than anything Hall ever did.. Hall's biggest claim to fame in a match sense was going over HBK in a ladder match at Mania 10. There were no world titles, or main events that mattered in Hall's career.

It's pretty simple, you maggots... Vote Slaughter!

 

[PsychoBlack]

I have to go with Scott Hall here. SGT Slaughter does nothing for me. He was world champion for one reason and that was to get the belt back to Hogan due to Warriors incompetence. Scott Hall in 1996 beats Slaughter easily during any point of his career. Survey Says vote Hall

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I have to go with Scott Hall here. SGT Slaughter does nothing for me. He was world champion for one reason and that was to get the belt back to Hogan due to Warriors incompetence. Scott Hall in 1996 beats Slaughter easily during any point of his career. Survey Says vote Hall

Scott Hall was such a force in 1996. His only pinfall victory over The 1-2-3 Kid was a sight to behold.

Other than the nWo, what did Hall do that year? Jack shit.

Take his two matches with HBK out and what is really memorable about him inside the ring?

Easily, my ass.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I have to go with Scott Hall here. SGT Slaughter does nothing for me. He was world champion for one reason and that was to get the belt back to Hogan due to Warriors incompetence. Scott Hall in 1996 beats Slaughter easily during any point of his career. Survey Says vote Hall

Really?

So a career mid carder (Scott Hall) is going to beat someone who has been a World Champion in more than one organization (Sgt. Slaughter)?

I know that in my earlier post I said I was torn, but after thinking about it and reading some other posts, it goes to Sgt. Slaughter easily. Hell, his feud with Hogan for WM 7 is probably bigger than anything Hall has ever done.

Cobra Clutch at about the 10 min mark.

 

[HBsam31]

I had to think about this one for a bit, and the more I thought about it the more I wanted to pick slaughter. I have to agree with Little Jerry Lawler. Take away the two matches with HBK, and the early NWO days and Hall was a career mid carder. Slaughter is a true legend in the business, and found success in multiple organizations. When he beat Warrior he was one of the most hated heels ever going into the program with Hogan. This one is easily Slaughter.

 

[Tastycles]

I think that Scott Hall's legacy will always be exaggerated because Razor Ramon was cool, and the nWo was massive and all started with him. Slaughter was a popular character in the 80s, and he got a brief run with the title when they decided Warrior wasn't good enough for it.

However, for my money, I just think Slaughter was able to get over because of the same reason the Soviet wrestlers were - it's a lowest common denominator thing, and I'm not sure it really makes him a good wrestler. I think this is close, but you essentially have two midcarders, and I think the landmark points of Hall's career are more important to the history of professional wrestling.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Slaughter was kind of slow and clunky but facing someone like Big Scott Hall shouldn't matter too much. Hall never seemed that quick or like much of a ring technician so based on ring ability I would call this a draw.

Next category I would go to is popularity. Slaughter was far more over than Hall. I remember seeing an article in the 80's that ranked him 3rd behind Flair and Hogan in pro wrestling (I swear it was People Magazine but can't prove it). Hall was 3rd in the NWO and no more than mid-card in WWF. Slaughter also became back of GI Joe which was huge in the 80's. Case closed.

There's no real case for why Hall should beat Slaughter. But he is more well known by the voters and higher ranked so Hall will probably win.

 

[8thwotwATG]

This matchup is pretty close, closer than I think it really should be...As good as Scott Hall was, I still believe that the Sarge was more over, drew more people, and made more fans care about him as opposed to who Scott made care about him either as Razor Ramon, or on under his own name. Most of the knowledgeable fans here on WZ are aware that it was Pat Patterson who first brought Bob Slaughter to WWE/F back in the early Eighties. In his first run up here in the northeast, he decimated a score of midcard performers before being fed to Backlund. In the main event, he managed to give Bob a pretty good scare before being dispatched; but that only proved to be the start of the Sarge, who , once he turned face, had one of the most successfull face runs in his feud with the Iron Shiek. Everybody and his grandmother(myself included) bought a ticket at a house show in their area to see Sgt. Slaughter kick the fucking shit out of the Iron Sheik, which he pretty much did on a regular basis. The Sarge also had some considerable success in the Mid South and other territorial areas that were under the auspisious of the NWA. Of course we all remember the heat he generated as an american turncoat as an Iraqui sympathizer,, and his feud with Hogan, while predictable, still drew huge crowds and fan support. i guess my main point here is to say that Sgt Slaughter did more to enhance the pro wrestling business, and drew more revenue than Scott Hall. If I'm wrong then so be it, but I don't think I'm far off the mark. Do the right thing, the correct thing, and vote Sgt. Slaughter here.


P.S.
He also took part in one of the single most memorable matches in pro wrestling history with his match against Pat Patterson in MSG in the infamous Boot Camp match...one of the greatest bouts ever!!!

 

[deem]

Yh I'm in the Slaughter camp here. I've been slowly rewatching all of WWF from 1985 to 2002. Got to mid-1995 here. Was excited when Razor debuted, his initial programme with Flair/Perfect/Savage was great. Obviously I assumed he was gonna be a great worker due to his reputation - I was shocked to find he was never that good. The ladder matches with HBK rule obv, other than that I really wasn't blown away with anything. He flat out refuses to longterm sell. His striking is great and he can definitely be carried by people - Hart/Michaels/Hennig all got the best out of him. He literally didn't put in a good performance when not met with someone amazing though. 1-2-3 Kid matches were fun but Pac was pretty fresh and entertaining consistently imo at that stage.

Anyway, that's just my personal thoughts on the guy and doesn't really influence my voting. This is still easily Sarge. Ramon like, never reached main event. His biggest achievement in singles was probably winning World War 3 1997, making himself the number one contender - he jobbed to Sting in 8m four months later and Hogan/Savage main evented. edit; just remembered he had a title shot at the Royal Rumble Vs Bret Hart shortly after his debut. 1993 iirc. Obv unsuccessful but thought I'd mention it to be fair.

All his best work was in The Outsiders - when I'm researching for this tournament, I discard tag team form immediately as its so different to singles. It's all Ramon has though, other than IC title and two title shots.

Compare that to Sarge - Ramon's second biggest achievement was probably the ladder matches with HBK, and Sarge Vs Patterson probably holds up against that on its own. That's without mentioning numerous title shots against Backlund for the WWF title, becoming one of the top drawing faces in the world Vs Iron Sheik, main eventing in NWA with Ric Flair... oh, and becoming the WWF champion, #1 heel in the company and engaging in a year long feud with a prime Hogan, main eventing Wrestlemania.

Come on. This isn't hard. Slaughter was a main eventer for most of his career, it's really selling him short to call him a midcarder. Whereas that's exactly what Ramon was.

 

[The Brain]

This was a tough one for me. I finally decided to go with Slaughter. If Hall stayed in the WWF he might have gone on to have more indvidual success. In WCW he was always a role player in a bigger star's shadow. Not that that's a bad thing because he did play an important role. I just think Slaughter had more success on his own. Close call though.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Yes, Slaughter was a former World Champ but it was for 2 months and was a cheap transitional reign to cash in on the Gulf War. Scott Hall might never have reached the heights of World Champ but spent a large proportion of his career in the upper midcard winning the secondary bents and being involved in the main storylines.

I have Hall winning this because of this prolonged relevance, without that one title reign Slaughter would be remembered in the same vein as Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

 

[deem]

Yes, Slaughter was a former World Champ but it was for 2 months and was a cheap transitional reign to cash in on the Gulf War. Scott Hall might never have reached the heights of World Champ but spent a large proportion of his career in the upper midcard winning the secondary bents and being involved in the main storylines.

I have Hall winning this because of this prolonged relevance, without that one title reign Slaughter would be remembered in the same vein as Hacksaw Jim Duggan.

[youtube]73Q7QHPcsv0[/youtube]

Wow, no. Just no. I agree it was opportunistic to be given a WWF title run, and he probably stands out as the weakest champion since Iron Sheik. I know he was transitional - they had to get the belt off Warrior and back to Hogan, they obv had to capitalise on the gulfwar, Slaughter was easily the most obv choice.

That's irrelevant. It did happen, and it never happened for Hall. Maybe that's bad luck, maybe that's him just not suiting a push of that nature.

EVEN IF you disregard that year for Slaughter (which is ridiculous. you wouldn't scratch off JBL's WWE title reign due to the company needing an anti-hispanic heel), he still has tons more relevant main event work than Hall does. In the NWA with Flair, as a huge drawing face Vs Sheik, in a massively over feud with Patterson, with Backlund for the title.

Comparing Slaughter to Duggan, even without his 1991, is absolutely ridiculous. Did Duggan ever have a main event feud? Ever? Made a tournament final in UWF lol. Oh and had a title shot on Main Event Vs Slaughter in the build to Wrestlemania. Stellar. He was in the 14 man tournament at Wrestlemania 4 though, so close to champ!

Absurd. I really think Hall winning this would be a huge injustice.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

[youtube]73Q7QHPcsv0[/youtube]

The Inbetweeners?

Wow, no. Just no. I agree it was opportunistic to be given a WWF title run, and he probably stands out as the weakest champion since Iron Sheik. I know he was transitional - they had to get the belt off Warrior and back to Hogan, they obv had to capitalise on the gulfwar, Slaughter was easily the most obv choice.

That's irrelevant. It did happen, and it never happened for Hall. Maybe that's bad luck, maybe that's him just not suiting a push of that nature.

They obviously had to cash in on real people dying? This was poor taste at it's worst and doesn't look any better in hindsight... and I challenge you to find anyone who would put this over Hall walking out uninvited on Nitro.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/scott-hall-invades-wcw-nitro-may-27-1996-26013697

EVEN IF you disregard that year for Slaughter (which is ridiculous. you wouldn't scratch off JBL's WWE title reign due to the company needing an anti-hispanic heel), he still has tons more relevant main event work than Hall does. In the NWA with Flair, as a huge drawing face Vs Sheik, in a massively over feud with Patterson, with Backlund for the title.

Year? His reign was two months and he then went to being a whipping boy for the Hulkster and Warrior. So he was considered as a good challenger, he didn't win any of said feuds and the loss to Pat wasn't even for a belt.

Comparing Slaughter to Duggan, even without his 1991, is absolutely ridiculous. Did Duggan ever have a main event feud? Ever? Made a tournament final in UWF lol. Oh and had a title shot on Main Event Vs Slaughter in the build to Wrestlemania. Stellar. He was in the 14 man tournament at Wrestlemania 4 though, so close to champ!

Duggan feuded with Harley Race, Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, Sgt Slaughter p), Yokozuna, Shawn Michaels and squashed Steve Austin for the US Belt... he was also the guy that the WWF picked to partner Slaughter when he went face again. How could I make such a comparison?

Absurd. I really think Hall winning this would be a huge injustice.

Scott Hall is on many peoples lists for the best wrestler never to win the big one. Ask yourself this - If Slaughter hadn't that two month reign, would anybody say the same for him? I seriously doubt it. A world reign is great but isn't the be all, end all - there's a reason why both Hall and Piper are higher rated than Slaughter.

 

[deem]

They obviously had to cash in on real people dying? This was poor taste at it's worst and doesn't look any better in hindsight... and I challenge you to find anyone who would put this over Hall walking out uninvited on Nitro.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/scott-hall-invades-wcw-nitro-may-27-1996-26013697

Within the constructs of a kayfabe match between the two? Yes, beating Ultimate Warrior for the WWF title and main eventing WM7 vs Hogan is a more impressive feat than Hall appearing from an audience and cutting a promo. Don't lose sight of what we are judging here.

Year? His reign was two months and he then went to being a whipping boy for the Hulkster and Warrior. So he was considered as a good challenger, he didn't win any of said feuds and the match with Pat wasn't even for a belt.

Didn't mean to insinuate he held the belt for a year, just that the calender year of 1991 he won the title at Royal Rumble, main evented Wrestlemania and Summerslam. That's three of the four annual PPV's he was booked in the title match/main event for.

Duggan feuded with Harley Race, Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, Sgt Slaughter p), Yokozuna, Shawn Michaels and squashed Steve Austin for the US Belt... he was also the guy that the WWF picked to partner Slaughter when he went face again. How could I make such a comparison?

Hardly headline feuds, any of them though. The majority didn't even make it onto PPV. He was largely irrelevant through his entire career, despite being super over. Ok consider this - Sgt Slaughter was the perfect guy to turn heel to face Hogan during the Gulf War because he was previously super over as an American Hero. As was Duggan. Are you saying you can imagine Duggan being the man to turn heel, beat Warrior and go into WM7 with the belt? Of course that would NEVER happen. Whether you approve of the storyline or not is entirely irrelevant, Slaughter main evented Wrestlemania. Hall never got that high. Well he did, but different sort of high

Scott Hall is on many peoples lists for the best wrestler never to win the big one. Ask yourself this - If Slaughter hadn't that two month reign, would anybody say the same for him? I seriously doubt it. A world reign is great but isn't the be all, end all - there's a reason why both Hall and Piper are higher rated than Slaughter.

I mean, I somewhat agree with you here. It's not my opinion, but I think you're right about it being the consensus of many. As are you right that I doubt Slaughter would be named as most deserving never to win it. I just don't understand why you are trying so hard to exclude his best year - what if Hall had been offered a big WWF contract, stayed on their undercard for the next few years, finally going to WCW and adding another member to the swollen NWO ranks, rather than being the start of it? Would people consider him good then? That's exactly the same as debating who would win if we take away Slaughter's WWF title.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

I'm not taking away his reign, if it wasn't for said reign I don't believe he would even be in the 128 but I still think that holding the WWF's secondary belt (back when it was still a massive honor to hold) on 4 occasions for a total of 437 days is better than a bad taste two month reign as champ.

And you want something to trump one of the most forgotten WM main events ever, how about BatB 1996 - one of the most memorable main events ever and one where Hall and Nash were dominating three of WCW's top guys handicap style.

 

[TLC]

I went with Slaughter. Honestly, I think Hall is vastly overrated and I have no idea how he's got such a high draw.

Slaughter may not have been the best but at least he was a world champion and main evented a Wrestlemania. Hall lived in the shadow of both Nash and Hogan and will be remembered for his ladder matches and his addictions. It's quite sad but it's true. He had a pretty cool character but he never got out of the mid card.

Slaughter should take this.