Rock Region, Fourth Round, TLC Match: (1) The Rock vs. (4) Andre the Giant

[klunderbunker]

This is a fourth round match and it is a TLC match. It will take place at the Amway Center in Orlando, Florida. Assume that one week has passed since the previous round, meaning that all injuries may not have healed.

Rules: A briefcase is hung above the ring and the first person to pull it down wins. Tables, ladders and chairs are available for both wrestlers to use and anything goes.

#1. The Rock

vs.

#4. Andre the Giant


Polls will be open for five days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.​

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

I'll need time, but I think Andre. Andre was probably the most famous crossover wrestling star before, The Rock. Andre did it all and was a name that transcended the business at one point. Again, like The Rock these days.

Just imagining a People's Elbow on Andre's coffee table sized chest is a hoot.

 

[OYDK]

This strikes me as a match that The Rock would win. The TLC stip definitely favors Rocky here in my opinion, and he was certainly one of the very few stars in pro wrestling big enough to warrant a win over Andre the Giant. In a straight one on one, I probably would have taken Andre but I think the fact that one can utilize the ladder as a weapon allows The Rock to squeak through.

Andre would undoubtedly get in a good amount of offense, Rock would take a beating and go through a table but eventually he'd use the ladders and chairs to target the legs of the Giant. Also, Andre would have taken a beating against Brock in the last round while The Rock basically walked by Steamboat. Take in the fact that this is in The Rock's hometown and I think you have to give it to him here.

Rock wins in a major upset.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

First of all, taking into consideration the previous matches.
Rock def. Steamboat in a Submission match, 38-17. Match duration: 55 votes. Damage difference: 21 votes.
Andre def. Lesnar in a Dog Collar match, 43-27. Duration: 70 votes. Difference: 16.

So Andre participated in a longer match and took much more punishment than the Rock, facing the beast himself. And not only that, but now he has to participate in a match where speed, agility and stamina are basic tools in order to win?

Rock can use ladders and chairs to bring the giant down. However, don't jump to conclusions here. Imagine Rock getting chair shots from Andre the Giant. Andre can easily lift Rock up and chokeslam him through 2-3 tables from inside the ring to the outside.

The only thing that favours the Rock is climbing that ladder. I'm not gonna say "Andre can't climb cause he's fat." That's BS.

However Andre lacks speed, agility and stamina. These are the 3 important factors. Rock has those. As long Rock can stay away from Andre's range, while he's holding a weapon, he'll be fine.

Rock gets a beating of a lifetime, but in the end, his agility and speed help him win this one.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

First of all, taking into consideration the previous matches.
Rock def. Steamboat in a Submission match, 38-17. Match duration: 55 votes. Damage difference: 21 votes.
Andre def. Lesnar in a Dog Collar match, 43-27. Duration: 70 votes. Difference: 16.

So Andre participated in a longer match and took much more punishment than the Rock, facing the beast himself.

This might be a ridiculous question but I'll ask it anyway. How long after each match does the next match take place if this were a real tournament? For instance, if the matches were on an episode of Raw, would it be 7 days in kayfabe until the next one? How long between each match is basically the crux of the thing.

It's going to be a week but I'll include a statement in the next round to assume that everyone is coming in fresh and healthy.

That's what I assumed. Only the final rounds then are the ones in which damage from previous matches should count?

Yep.

Your argument is moot unless you are voting based on your own set of criteria. Which I don't mind but it goes against what the organizer intended.

This is a tough one. It's not hard to see The Rock go out this early. The guy was pretty professional and could take losses without losing momentum. Neither guy needed the title although Rocky clearly had more title cache. At the same time Andre, who despite his 15 year"unbeaten" streak would do what is best for business. The Rock is also capable of beating giants. I just refuse to believe Andre plus foreign objects could be stopped. The guy could swing a ladder almost as hard as The Rock could swing a chair. He was that big and that strong. Andre is unlikely to go though a table. The Rock isn't Rock Bottoming Andre through a table and I don't remember The Rock being much of a flyer so he isn't putting him through a table either.

Titles - Rock big advantage
Location - Push
Next round potential - Andre/UT small advantage since Sting/Rock is so intriguing
Stipulation - Andre
Legacy - Andre (WM3 + War to Settle the Score + Hall of Fame + Battle Royal > The Usos + Smackdown name + Rock/Austin + Rock/Cena)
Main stream - Rock
Drawing - Andre

Vote Andre but I won't think you're stupid if you vote The Rock.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Your argument is moot unless you are voting based on your own set of criteria. Which I don't mind but it goes against what the organizer intended.

Assume that one week has passed since the previous round, meaning that all injuries may not have healed.

Just read the very first post in this thread, guy.

The Rock is probably the biggest star in the history of pro wrestling barring Hogan and Austin (maybe.) I don't give a shit what Andre did 40 years ago in the most unwatchable fashion ever.

That's as much effort as I'm willing to put into this thread.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Just read the very first post in this thread, guy.

The Rock is probably the biggest star in the history of pro wrestling barring Hogan and Austin (maybe.) I don't give a shit what Andre did 40 years ago in the most unwatchable fashion ever.

That's as much effort as I'm willing to put into this thread.

KB has f'ed up opening posts a few times already, this is probably just another mistake. He clearly states one week and they come back fresh and healthy and previous rounds damage only counts in the final rounds. Unless this is a final round?

Not that Andre's win was that much more damaging than Rock's.

But vote anyway you want. Maybe next year a Juggalo will be entered.

 

[klunderbunker]

KB has f'ed up opening posts a few times already, this is probably just another mistake. He clearly states one week and they come back fresh and healthy and previous rounds damage only counts in the final rounds. Unless this is a final round?

Not that Andre's win was that much more damaging than Rock's.

But vote anyway you want. Maybe next year a Juggalo will be entered.

Yeah at this point it's just general wear and tear. The margins will start counting in the final three rounds.

 

[nightmare]

Andre wins this one.

Rock is not going to hurt him with jazzy slaps & his sloppy sharpshooter will be less than effective if he can even get it on. Peoples Elbow... not enough & I doubt the Rock Bottom keeps Andre down for long.


A chair or ladder is the only thing that helps Rock damage Andre here & I have no faith it is more than the damage Andre will inflict. Before anyone brings up Rock smashing Foley damn near to death with a chair...just stop. Andre wont be handcuffed. Andre was damn quick & crazy strong back in the day. He wont have far to climb after thrashing Rock for a bit. He faced a far tougher opponent last round & won, so Rock is toast here.

Crossover success & witty mic skills do not beat a monster, especially when that monster is encouraged to use weapons.

 

[NSL]

Rock is coming off a match where the victory is determined by who can wear you down the most over the course of the match. Andre is coming off a match based on violence. They both faced guys that excel in those specific areas, so I don't think either guys wear and tear is going to factor into this match too much. They're both going to be sore, and I imagine Andre can sustain Brock's offense on par with Rock taking Steamboat's.

So it comes down to just this stipulation, the TLC. Andre can't climb a ladder Andre is slower than Rock, yes, but I think he can also dish enough offense to keep Rock down for however long it would take him to climb and tear down a briefcase. Also, he's taller than Rock by a good 6-7 inches, so he doesn't need to climb as high. And Rock can't topple the ladder over once Andre's on it.

I'm leaning towards the Giant, but might be swayed once I can think a bit more on it.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

Rock is coming off a match where the victory is determined by who can wear you down the most over the course of the match. Andre is coming off a match based on violence. They both faced guys that excel in those specific areas, so I don't think either guys wear and tear is going to factor into this match too much. They're both going to be sore, and I imagine Andre can sustain Brock's offense on par with Rock taking Steamboat's.

So it comes down to just this stipulation, the TLC. Andre can't climb a ladder Andre is slower than Rock, yes, but I think he can also dish enough offense to keep Rock down for however long it would take him to climb and tear down a briefcase. Also, he's taller than Rock by a good 6-7 inches, so he doesn't need to climb as high. And Rock can't topple the ladder over once Andre's on it.

I'm leaning towards the Giant, but might be swayed once I can think a bit more on it.

When I read the stipulation I immediately thought "OMG ANDRE + LADDER = FAIL!!", he always seems to get stuck with a ladder every year!

But, if we are talking about an in-prime Andre, rather than the fat, slow Giant most people on here remember, then he's more than capable of climbing the ladder with relative speed and ease. Plus, he's so much taller than The Rock, so he doesn't have to climb as high.

I'm pretty sure both guys are capable of causing major damage with a chair- we've seen Foley get obliterated by Rocky's wild chairshots, and i'm pretty sure a man Andre's size could KO someone with a chair.

I would see this ending with Andre tipping The Rock off the ladder after a long, hard-fought match before clambering up himself and retrieving the case. It was always going to be something special who eliminated an icon like The Rock, but he's met his match in the 8th Wonder of the World.

 

[Bernkastel]

Remember when I said that Dory Funk was not the best opponent to try and knock the Rock out of this thing? Well Andre is. He had longevity that the Rock didn't have, and universal appeal that the Rock didn't have either. More than 20 years after his death and fans and non fans from all over still remember Andre the Giant. It's been around 15 since Rock retired from a full time schedule as a pro wrestler, and he has done everything he can to erase The Rock from his past and just be known as Dwayne Johnson the actor. His unprecedented Hollywood success has granted him universal appeal; not his career as a pro wrestler. Andre on the other hand was known universally for primarily being a pro wrestler. He was an actor and crossover icon secondly.

Even at his peak when Rock was hosting SNL he had no where near the mainstream appeal of Andre. I didn't see Austin and Rock drawing 9's and 10's for TV ratings. I didn't see Rock or Austin breaking and setting attendance records for Wrestlemania. Wrestling became a niche product in the late 90's. Mostly catering to hardcore fans that stuck with the ailing WWE years before and only sought to bring in fans from the 16-30 demographics. Most fans that would have watched Andre during the 70's and 80's snubbed the product. I guess many older people were not impressed with the trashiness of the product and Rock's constant threats to shove various objects sideways up other people's rectums.

Even though the ladder has become somewhat of an Andre kryptonite in recent years, a TLC match has additional factors like tables and chairs to occupy Andre's time and efforts. I could see him taking Rock out with one of these before climbing the ladder at his convenience.

Backing Andre here.

 

[The Brain]

It's been around 15 since Rock retired from a full time schedule as a pro wrestler, and he has done everything he can to erase The Rock from his past and just be known as Dwayne Johnson the actor.

I don't have a problem with anyone voting Andre but I have to call you out here. You may have gotten away with this statement in the late 2000s but Rock has been back in WWE's good graces for the past five years. His been at the last six manias along with other scattered appearances.

This doesn't look like a guy trying to erase The Rock from his past.

[YOUTUBE]VSUSuXThbTc[/YOUTUBE]

We're getting late in the tournament so bigger things are going to happen. This would be an interesting match where Rock would get tossed around and bump and sell a lot for Andre. When it's time for the finish though I see these guys climbing up at the same time and Andre taking the big bump through the table from half way up the ladder. I think Rock takes this.

 

[Bernkastel]

I don't have a problem with anyone voting Andre but I have to call you out here. You may have gotten away with this statement in the late 2000s but Rock has been back in WWE's good graces for the past five years. His been at the last six manias along with other scattered appearances.

This doesn't look like a guy trying to erase The Rock from his past.

[YOUTUBE]VSUSuXThbTc[/YOUTUBE]

We're getting late in the tournament so bigger things are going to happen. This would be an interesting match where Rock would get tossed around and bump and sell a lot for Andre. When it's time for the finish though I see these guys climbing up at the same time and Andre taking the big bump through the table from half way up the ladder. I think Rock takes this.

I may have over exaggerated a bit, but it is easy to see that Rock's fame as an actor has eclipsed his fame as a pro wrestler. If ordinary people know the man it's as Dwayne Johnson the actor and not Rock the wrestler. At this point his recent WWE appearances have all been fan service. Andre on the other hand achieved cross over appeal and household name recognition as a pro wrestler. And as such elevated the industry in ways that the Rock never could and did.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

Remember when I said that Dory Funk was not the best opponent to try and knock the Rock out of this thing? Well Andre is. He had longevity that the Rock didn't have, and universal appeal that the Rock didn't have either. More than 20 years after his death and fans and non fans from all over still remember Andre the Giant. It's been around 15 since Rock retired from a full time schedule as a pro wrestler, and he has done everything he can to erase The Rock from his past and just be known as Dwayne Johnson the actor. His unprecedented Hollywood success has granted him universal appeal; not his career as a pro wrestler. Andre on the other hand was known universally for primarily being a pro wrestler. He was an actor and crossover icon secondly.

Even at his peak when Rock was hosting SNL he had no where near the mainstream appeal of Andre. I didn't see Austin and Rock drawing 9's and 10's for TV ratings. I didn't see Rock or Austin breaking and setting attendance records for Wrestlemania. Wrestling became a niche product in the late 90's. Mostly catering to hardcore fans that stuck with the ailing WWE years before and only sought to bring in fans from the 16-30 demographics. Most fans that would have watched Andre during the 70's and 80's snubbed the product. I guess many older people were not impressed with the trashiness of the product and Rock's constant threats to shove various objects sideways up other people's rectums.

Even though the ladder has become somewhat of an Andre kryptonite in recent years, a TLC match has additional factors like tables and chairs to occupy Andre's time and efforts. I could see him taking Rock out with one of these before climbing the ladder at his convenience.

Backing Andre here.

Serious question, did Andre draw 9's and 10's on network tv or cable? Because there is a HUGE difference. I also disagree that Rock is trying to erase being a wrestler from his past. I think he did for a while, partially to build his brand as a legitimate actor and the other part was probably out of bitterness at the way his exit went down; but I think now he truly makes it part of him. Dwayne Johnson and The Rock may be different people (figuratively), but they both exist in the same place now.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Just read the very first post in this thread, guy.

The Rock is probably the biggest star in the history of pro wrestling barring Hogan and Austin (maybe.) I don't give a shit what Andre did 40 years ago in the most unwatchable fashion ever.

That's as much effort as I'm willing to put into this thread.

This one sells it for me.

I was already thinking of voting Andre since the Rock had no business winning his last match because of the stipulation. Seriously, the write in votes were overwhelmingly for Steamboat... yet the actual vote was overwhelmingly for the Rock. It's like everyone who voted for the Rock knew they had zero argument in his favor, didn't give a shit anyways because the stip won't matter this time out, and just clicked the button for the guy they know better.

But I like the Rock, so I was looking for a reason why he'd come out on top here. The only one is his star power might be enough, but in Andre's time, his star power as high as you could get it too, and the simple difference between the two in the ring was that Andre didn't lose, while the Rock did lose... fairly regularly.

So I was already leaning towards Andre here... but seeing this post, considering the last round, and figuring this guy here is the typical guy who completely ignored the stips last time out... he's sold it for me.

Vote Andre. Make it right.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Serious question, did Andre draw 9's and 10's on network tv or cable? Because there is a HUGE difference.

February 5, 1988 - The Main Event (NBC)

Andre the Giant versus Hulk Hogan in a rematch from Wrestlemania 3

15.2 rating (33 million viewers)

The highest rated American TV show in Professional Wrestling history


Normally I hate these present to past 'well did (insert star from 30+ years ago) draw internationally like (insert present day performer), or compete against x million number of viewers weekly like (insert present day performer)?'

Just because it's comparing apples to oranges and holding people accountable for things that weren't available to them, or giving people credit for advances that they simply happened to have been born at the right time to take advantage of.

But in this case... you've got a guy who was part of the draw for the then biggest indoor audience in history... then followed that up with the highest TV rating ever. You can argue his opponent had something to do with that, and you'd be right of course. But his opponent also never came close to drawing as well with anyone else as he could with Andre.

Andre was one of the absolute biggest draws in history, and has the numbers to back it up. The Rock, despite being the star of arguably the biggest period in WWE history, never was able to draw the audiences that Andre did.

 

[enviousdominous]

*ahem* Beating Brock Lesnar -- someone who the Rock has never beaten one-on-one or pinned under any circumstance -- in a dog collar match is a hell of a lot more significant than beating Ricky Steamboat in a submission match. Knocking Brock Lesnar out of this tournament sent shockwaves that haven't yet died down.

Now Andre has some strong momentum, and Rock is facing his first true obstacle to advancement. The way I see it, the advantage is all Andre's.

Andre's first move in this match would be to rip apart every ladder he sees. Rock is going to have to fight and won't be allowed to just distract Andre and rush up the ladder. Rock would have talked a lot of shit about Andre before the match, to which Andre would just smile and know that he's going to force Rocky to back up those opinions in the ring. Andre will force the match to go as long as he feels that it needs to before stacking the steel steps high enough for him to reach the briefcase, he wouldn't need a ladder.

The Rock's record going up against The Big Show in one-on-one matches is currently 1 win and 2 losses. The Rock tends to get obliterated by bigger athletes, in this case Andre would give him no way to escape his fate. All the silly stupid antics won't save Rocky in this one, he'll have to try in vain to chop down the greatest giant of all time.

The fact that Andre beat a juggernaut like Brock Lesnar, with enough votes to prove that it wasn't a close call, shows that he's now a favorite to win this tournament.

Vote Andre.

 

[Rayne]

Besides the Race/Hart match that I haven't voted on yet, this one was the hardest- but I have to go with The Rock here, because how is Andre supposed to climb a ladder?

(Sorry, it had to be done.)

But seriously, a ladder match is one that favors speed and agility. While weapons are in play, and certainly give Andre the advantage in that regard, Andre has perhaps the lowest speed of anyone in this tournament. The Rock doesn't have to beat Andre down, put him through a table, or any of that nonsense; he just has to get Andre out of the ring and then move quickly.

This doesn't even have to end with Andre being 'beaten', this could be your classic Saturday Night Main Event toss-off with Andre trying to chase a much quicker Rock around and showing his frustration afterwards by putting Rock through everything in sight. It's not a match Andre can't win; it's a match in which he gets beat 6 times out of 10 by someone whose skill set can be adapted into a non-traditional yet entirely viable win strategy.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Besides the Race/Hart match that I haven't voted on yet, this one was the hardest- but I have to go with The Rock here, because how is Andre supposed to climb a ladder?

(Sorry, it had to be done.)

But seriously, a ladder match is one that favors speed and agility. While weapons are in play, and certainly give Andre the advantage in that regard, Andre has perhaps the lowest speed of anyone in this tournament. The Rock doesn't have to beat Andre down, put him through a table, or any of that nonsense; he just has to get Andre out of the ring and then move quickly.

This doesn't even have to end with Andre being 'beaten', this could be your classic Saturday Night Main Event toss-off with Andre trying to chase a much quicker Rock around and showing his frustration afterwards by putting Rock through everything in sight. It's not a match Andre can't win; it's a match in which he gets beat 6 times out of 10 by someone whose skill set can be adapted into a non-traditional yet entirely viable win strategy.

I find that when people think of Andre, they think too often of when Heenan managed him at the end of his career. When his body was so broken down due to his disease, and he was only a few years away from death unfortunately.

THIS, is the Andre you should be considering in these matches, and I'm sorry. But no one is beating the guy in the videos below by making him chase around, and running up a ladder when he's far enough away.

In a TLC match, you're only beating the guy in the video's below if you can actually beat him. And honestly, no one did that to the guy in the videos below.

Just watch.

[YOUTUBE]Vzn6aWSNSHE[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]apl_176Klhs[/YOUTUBE]

 

[JGlass]

I'm going to precede my vote with a brief explanation.

I don't care for The Rock. His stuff from his hay day is fine, if not contrived and overshadowed by Austin's time on top, but it's good. I can see why people like it, and I'll admit that there was a time that I found watching him be a bully to everyone to be hilarious.

But since his return at WrestleMania 27, he's done nothing for me. In fact, he's actively harmed my viewing experience. First he screws over one of my all time favorite wrestlers, then he beats my all time favorite wrestler, then he completely ruins what could have been a fantastic culmination of a title run for the first wrestler that got me into wrestling (CM Punk), and then he puts on a sub-par match at what is likely the only WrestleMania I'll ever go to, especially when the alternative is CM Punk vs. John Cena or CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan. Either of those matches would have been amazing... ugh.

So yeah, I'm not a big fan of The Rock.

I'll admit to not witnessing Andre's skill and dominance myself in any capacity, only reading about it and hearing tales of it from some of the more wrestling-educated fans on this forum. But there was a time that Andre was the biggest name in wrestling in the world, it seems. If not the world, at least North America.

I'm going to vote Andre for petty reasons. Do whatever you want, it's America.

 

[Tastycles]

[youtube]ClzaP8HN2wc[/youtube]

Andre can climb.

He also spent most of his career winning against everyone. Andre wins.

 

[SSJPhenom]

The stipulation in this match definitely favors the Rock, but could you imagine if Andre got a hold of that ladder and hit Rock with it? I mean man.....

Seriously though, I think the Rock takes this one. IMO, the Rock had the more successful career and the stipulation favors him more than it does Andre. At this point in time, Andre is the more influential of the two, however, that might change a few years down the road. So with the Rock taking almost every category IMO, it goes to him.

Vote Rock.

 

[Coco]

Is that stack of pancakes in the opening post supposed to intimidate Andre? Andre has eaten more pancakes in a single sitting than the Rock can bench. He's pinched loafs bigger than the SmackDown Hotel. He has pounded back so much cheap red wine in a single sitting that returning a single night's worth of his empties could pay for three of Dwayne's $800 shirts.

And he was in The Princess Bride.

I vote Andre.

 

[ShawnDiscipleSmith]

I had a hard time with it, but even though Andre likes doing the tied up in the ropes and helpless spot, I don't see this match ending that way.
Voted Andre after reading the arguments