Semi Finals: The Incredible Hulk vs. Darth Vader

[JGlass]

Round 4

The Incredible Hulk continues to smash his way through the Battle Zone as he beats America's greatest hero, Captain America. Darth Vader has been a force to be reckoned with himself, as he has torn through several of the Battle Zone's favorites on his way to the Semi-Finals. Does the Hulk live to smash another day, or does Vader continue on the dark path to winning it all in the name of the Empire?

FIGHT!​

 

[Mr. Truth]

Again, World War Hulk. He fought to a draw against Sentry, who has the power of 1,000,000 exploding suns. (He technically won, but both him and Sentry were depowered) How can anyone convince me that Darth Vader has the power of more than 1,000,000 exploding suns? Seems awfully far-fetched to me.

 

[El Rev sXe]

I am impressed how far Hulk has come in this tournament. Finally he has met his match, Darth Vader. While Sonic and Flash could run like morrons around Hulk and avoid him, Vader has a better strategy, use the force. That will keep Hulk at a safe distance and then Vader can easily throw his light saber towards Hulk's head and well, Vader goes to the finals.

 

[Mr. Truth]

I am impressed how far Hulk has come in this tournament. Finally he has met his match, Darth Vader. While Sonic and Flash could run like morrons around Hulk and avoid him, Vader has a better strategy, use the force. That will keep Hulk at a safe distance and then Vader can easily throw his light saber towards Hulk's head and well, Vader goes to the finals.

So you're telling me that Vader can take down a monster who, when angry enough, can reshape the earth with his footsteps? No dice. Vader is not going to be able to avoid Hulk's attacks from a distance, since Hulk can pick up chunks of the earth/spaceship/whereverthehellthismatchtakesplace and chuck it at Vader, or create shockwaves and earthquakes. Face it, unless you want to go with Vader because he's the villain from one of your favorite film series, you really have no choice but to vote Hulk.

 

[klunderbunker]

In Empire Strikes Back, Yoda is teaching Luke of the Force and Luke has troubles lifting his ship out of the swamp. This means, in short, there is a limit to the power of the Force. As far as I can tell, there is no limit to the Hulk's powers. Vader may be able to evade Hulk for awhile, but there's only so much he can do here and eventually Hulk is going to knock him down and take over. It's not a total guarantee but I'd lead heavily to Hulk here.

 

[Stormtrooper]

In Empire Strikes Back, Yoda is teaching Luke of the Force and Luke has troubles lifting his ship out of the swamp. This means, in short, there is a limit to the power of the Force. As far as I can tell, there is no limit to the Hulk's powers. Vader may be able to evade Hulk for awhile, but there's only so much he can do here and eventually Hulk is going to knock him down and take over. It's not a total guarantee but I'd lead heavily to Hulk here.

To be fair though, This was when Luke was still what was in effect a Padawan, as he was just learning The Force.

The Force is part of the fighters DNA. However, harnessing it and using it to its full effect is a learned skill, of which Luke at the time didn't have.

Darth Vader is MUCH MUCH more versed in the ways of the Force the Luke Skywalker was at the time you're mentioning (Empire Strikes Back). Vader would likely be able to at least use the Force to move aside whatever Hulk hurls at him. That doesn't mean he will win the fight, but that Vader stands a chance. If he gets in close to Hulk, Vaders Lightsaber will be able to cause serious (if not fatal) damage to Hulk.

I'm also holding off, voting for now. I'm leaning 60/40 towards Hulk, but want to hear Vader voters reasons before confirming my vote.

 

[justinsayne]

This is gonna be a though match-up, and one I really could see going either way, Hulk is one tough son of a bitch, & only gets tougher the angrier he gets, Vader is cold and himself has unlimited power being a "master of the dark side". There are multiple ways either guy could win. Vader could use the Force to push Hulk away, & redirect any objects Hulk throws at him, however the angry Hulk gets the harder he's gonna throw shit, & the harder it's gonna be for Vader to use the Force to keep him back, if Hulk gets close the first things he's going to do is smash Vader's Lightsaber, I'm thinking Vader's best shot at beating Hulk would be using the Jedi mind trick on Hulk, get him to change back into Banner and then Force choke. That's of course assuming Vader, knows about Banner. Otherwise I see Hulk eventually getting angry enough bust through the force push (or whatever you call it) leaving Vader shocked, and screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" until Hulk just smashes the living shit out of him.

I could lean either way, but I'm a pretty huge Hulk mark & have a feeling I'm going to see alot of Star War fanboys who know nothing about Hulk making idiotic posts in Vaders favor. I slightly leaning toward Hulk, but I think this match could easily go either way.

 

[Барбоса]

This is immensely close.

As I stated in the "Wolverine vs Vader" thread, opponents who have beaten cyborg Vader have based their attacks on violent rage and if there is anyone from outside the Star Wars Universe that personifies rage it is the Hulk. He could easily overwhelm the Dark Lord with a brute force frontal attack.

What also might sway me away from the Dark Lord picking up a similar victory as against Wolverine the most is that the likes of Professor X had enough trouble trying to control the Hulk that they decided to exile him from Earth so the Hulk must have some kind of resistance to mind manipulation. Also, as with Wolverine, the unadulterated rage in Hulk's mind can go either way in making him either more susceptible to mind manipulation or provide a barrier that will take Vader time to break through. All of this leaves me unconvinced that Vader can just enter the Hulk's mind, trigger his transformation back into Banner or something more insidious like pinch off an artery.

Indeed, a lot of Vader's main Force skills will have little effect in actually ending the battle. I am not convinced that Vader is all that fast (for a Jedi/Sith anyway). However, he is a skilled duelist and is experienced enough in fighting vastly larger and physically stronger foes to know that he does not have to win this fight quickly.

By going on the defensive and utilising Force Pushes, Grips, Chokes, Mind Tricks, Vader can control the tempo of the fight, always keep the Hulk's dangerous offense off balance (although I am not sure how useful it will be to rile up the Hulk even more).

As for actually winning the fight, assuming that Vader cannot choke him out or kill him with an invasive mind attack, the Hulk's almost inexhaustible stamina means that the Dark Lord is not going to win by throwing the Hulk around telekinetically as Hulk's body has proven more than durable when thrown into or hit by rock and metal. This means that he is probably going to have to maim the Hulk to incapacitate him rather than throwing him about like a ragdoll with the Force.

Luckily, Vader has just the tools for that. When combined with a cunning gameplan of Soresu based defense, his lightsabre could easily be the tie breaker as from what I know the Hulk tends to go for head on attacks and that leaves him open to a simple sabre throw but I also think that the Hulk is deceptively fast for a big guy so throwing away his sabre might be the worst thing that Vader could do.

If the Hulk is to win, he will have to do so with an overwhelming early strike or take a vast amount of physical punishment (both of which he is more than capable of doing) but I am still just giving the edge to Vader.

 

[Remix]

I'm not voting on this one for now, but can anyone tell me how well Hulk would resist a lightsabre? If the sabre can panetrate, I think Vader might be able to hamstring Hulk, cutting his mobility down severely. And by repeatedly cutting into Hulk's tendons and muscles eventually immobilise him all together. Of course, Hulk's healing factor also comes into effect but the cauterised cuts of a lightsabre might be enough to slow it down for long enough for Vader to be declared the champion.

It could go either way, with Hulk's resistance to lightsabres being the decider.

 

[Mr. Truth]

I'm going to say this again, since people seem to be missing the point. I'm also going to bold it. Hulk needs to be beaten by someone more powerful than 1,000,000 exploding suns. Seriously. He fought to a draw with Sentry, so it will take someone more powerful than Sentry to defeat him. Do you really think a little force lighting or a lightsabre are going to pierce Hulk's skin? No. Those would just annoy Hulk, making him angrier and even more deadly. Hulk theoretically has no limit to his power. Vader isn't even the most powerful Jedi. Seriously, think for just a moment. This is Hulk's fight.

 

[Mac Attack]

Do you really think a little force lighting or a lightsabre are going to pierce Hulk's skin?

Can you actually prove a lightsabre won't go through his skin, because if that is so then I'll concede Hulk the victory, however as far as I know A lightsabre can go through anything. So if it can go through anything what is stopping Darth Vader from using the force to stop the Hulk and then using the lightsabre to cut Hulk to pieces, which ultimately would give Vader the win.

 

[justinsayne]

If the Lightsaber can cut through adimantium, than it can cut through Hulks skin, fuck, if Vader could get close enough, without getting himself smash to a bloody pulp, he could easily take Hulks head off with one swipe of the Lightsaber. Quick question does Vader have access to the Deathstar? If so this it for the Not-So-Jolly Green Giant

 

[Mr. Truth]

Quick question does Vader have access to the Deathstar? If so this it for the Not-So-Jolly Green Giant

Even if he did, which I think he doesn't, the Hulk can destroy the Death Star easily.

I still haven't seen anything about how Vader is able to win when Hulk fought to a draw with Sentry.

 

[JGlass]

Quick question does Vader have access to the Deathstar? If so this it for the Not-So-Jolly Green Giant

No. It would take more than one man to operate The Deathstar, and that would qualify as backup. However, I don't think Vader having access to his TIE Fighter is out of the question.

That said, I think Hulk could smash the TIE Fighter pretty easily, and using it would be a bad decision.

 

[Барбоса]

I still haven't seen anything about how Vader is able to win when Hulk fought to a draw with Sentry.

I would contend that if the Sentry really wanted to kill the Hulk, he would have done so but then he is a hero trying to balance out the two sides of him.

As for whether a lightsabre could pierce Hulk's skin, it has been proven that there are living substances in the Expanded Universe that can resist a lightsabre such as those bio-engineered by the Yuuzhan Vong, an extra-galactic species. However, natural occurences of sabre-proof animals are very scarce.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure that I have seen the Hulk with cuts and grazes from battles with military forces and if that is possible then a blade that is essentially highly focussed plasma should have no problem cutting through his skin.

 

[JGlass]

Furthermore, I am pretty sure that I have seen the Hulk with cuts and grazes on his skin from battle with military forces and if that is possible then a blade that is essentially highly focussed plasma should have no problem cutting through his skin.

I don't think Hulk's skin is lightsaber proof... but I think his skin and muscle tissue would make for tough cutting. Instead of cutting through Hulk's skin like soft butter, it would be more like cutting through frozen ice cream.

If Vader got close enough to Hulk to cut through Hulk's arm or skin, I think it would take too long. As he's cutting through Hulk's flesh, Hulk is using his free arm to punch Vader in the face. Due to Vader's frail human form, I don't think I'd be going to far when I say Hulk would literally punch Vader's head clean off of his body.

Vader could do some stuff to hurt Hulk, but I don't see him being able to do nearly enough damage quickly enough.

Right now I'm 80/20 towards Hulk, but could still use some convincing.

 

[Mr. Truth]

I would contend that if the Sentry really wanted to kill the Hulk, he would have done so but then he is a hero trying to balance out the two sides of him.

He was trying to do everything but kill him. Either way, the burden of proof is still on the Vader side to show how Vader can beat Hulk when Sentry can't.

 

[Барбоса]

I don't think Hulk's skin is lightsaber proof... but I think his skin and muscle tissue would make for tough cutting. Instead of cutting through Hulk's skin like soft butter, it would be more like cutting through frozen ice cream.

If Vader got close enough to Hulk to cut through Hulk's arm or skin, I think it would take too long. As he's cutting through Hulk's flesh, Hulk is using his free arm to punch Vader in the face. Due to Vader's frail human form, I don't think I'd be going to far when I say Hulk would literally punch Vader's head clean off of his body.

Vader could do some stuff to hurt Hulk, but I don't see him being able to do nearly enough damage quickly enough.

Right now I'm 80/20 towards Hulk, but could still use some convincing.

I would agree with that assessment of Hulk's resistance to the lightsabre but I do not think that it is a definitive advantage to the Hulk that lets him defeat Vader mainly because the Dark Lord has already defeated someone in Wolverine that would have had a similar, if not higher, resistance to the lightsabre.

I think Vader's victory over the Hulk is less certain than over Wolverine but the same tactics of stout defence, keeping his opponent off balance with telekinetic missiles, astute uses of Force Pushes, Grips and Mind Tricks to keep Hulk off balance and counter-attacking by taking advantage of clumsy attacks with his lightsabre will bring the Hulk down.

 

[Барбоса]

He was trying to do everything but kill him. Either way, the burden of proof is still on the Vader side to show how Vader can beat Hulk when Sentry can't.

The burden of proof? So far there is more "proof" being given for Vader's potential victory than for the Hulk's.

Explain why Vader cannot just reach into Hulk's mind and make him fall asleep, revert back to Banner or kill him by pinching off an artery. Why does Vader's most famous Force Choke not work? Why is Hulk's human skin impervious to a lightsabre when something like adamantium might not be?

Until you address any of these points, your argument for the Hulk boils down to "He is the Incredible Hulk" and saying that the Sentry could not defeat him; an argument that is not much use, especially when you have basically just admitted that the Sentry could have defeated the Hulk had he been willing to go all out; although I understand that that is not within his ethics and therefore not going to happen.

However, Vader has no such ethical code. Should the Hulk, a fighter who relies mostly on uncultured brute force, present the Dark Lord, a highly trained, multi-faceted, killing machine, with an opportunity to kill him, he is going to take it - plunging that sabre into Hulk's chest or cutting off his head, snapping his neck with the Force, choking him into unconsciousness or death, giving him a fatal aneurysm, forcing him to revert to Banner and brutalising him.

 

[JGlass]

I would agree with that assessment of Hulk's resistance to the lightsabre but I do not think that it is a definitive advantage to the Hulk that lets him defeat Vader mainly because the Dark Lord has already defeated someone in Wolverine that would have had a similar, if not higher, resistance to the lightsabre.

I think Vader's victory over the Hulk is less certain than over Wolverine but the same tactics of stout defence, keeping his opponent off balance with telekinetic missiles, astute uses of Force Pushes, Grips and Mind Tricks to keep Hulk off balance and counter-attacking by taking advantage of clumsy attacks with his lightsabre will bring the Hulk down.

Judging by how hard Yoda (who is one of the most powerful force users in the Star Wars universe I believe) has to concentrate to stop a pillar from falling in Star Wars Episode 2, I doubt Vader has the force abilities to use any sort of effective offensive Force attack against the Incredible Hulk. Stopping a stone pillar from falling is hard... but stopping Hulk is nearly impossible. Additionally, using the Force against Hulk would be very physically and mentally draining on Vader, and none of his Force attacks would be able to finish, or even really weaken Hulk for an extended period of time.

Vader's only hope for winning is an effective lightsaber attack, and I simply don't see him being able to do enough damage at that range to the Hulkster before getting his face punched in.

I'm now 95% sure I'm going for Hulk, but I'm still going to hold off until at least tonight.

 

[DirtyJosé]

I voted for Hulk but reading Mr. I Can't Handle The Truth's pathetic arguments and whining is making me want to change my vote.

Vader certainly has a shot here, far more than Truthy gives him credit for. Ignore his fanboyism for a second and remember that this is a Vader who went past Professor fucking X just recently. If there's someone who can get into Hulk's brain and shut him down permanently, it's him.

 

[Барбоса]

I doubt Vader has the force abilities to use any sort of effective offensive Force attack against the Incredible Hulk. Stopping a stone pillar from falling is hard... but stopping Hulk is nearly impossible.

There is some truth to this. It requires concentration to move something as big as a that stone pillar, an X-Wing or even entire Star Destroyers as Force users have been seen to do. However, in this fight not only does Vader not have the time to move/throw such large objects, he also does not need to.

While it is not the best example due to Vader merely toying with his opponent but the culmination of Episode V shows how Vader should use his telekinesis - distractions. Against such an accomplished duelist as Vader, all it needs is for one momentary lapse in concentration and the Hulk leaves himself open to potentially grave injury. He will not see it coming either as Vader does not need to gesture and something as small as a handful of sand could blind the Hulk for a long enough period for Vader to do debilitating damage such as the going after an Achilles tendon, hamstring or if he is feeling particularly ruthless, the jugular.

 

[JGlass]

While it is not the best example due to Vader merely toying with his opponent but the culmination of Episode V shows how Vader should use his telekinesis - distractions. Against such an accomplished duelist as Vader, all it needs is for one momentary lapse in concentration and the Hulk leaves himself open to potentially grave injury. He will not see it coming either as Vader does not need to gesture and something as small as a handful of sand could blind the Hulk for a long enough period for Vader to do debilitating damage such as the going after an Achilles tendon, hamstring or if he is feeling particularly ruthless, the jugular.

If Hulk was blinded, he'd reach for his eyes, covering his neck and jugular in the process. His hamstring would still be open, but Hulk would still be able to tell if Vader got close to him despite the sand in his eyes based on his blurry vision and just feeling, and getting that close to Hulk would be Vader's demise.

To get to Hulk's weak point, Vader has to really angle himself properly for an attack, but regardless of how well he sets himself up, he's still going to be met with some sort of powerful punch or kick from Hulk.

 

[Барбоса]

A flailing, partially blind Hulk is still a dangerous foe but I have ever confidence that Vader is sufficiently skilled to avoid such uncoordinated flailings, do his damage, whether it be superficial or critical, and then retreat to a safe distance before determining whether another such hit and run attack is viable. A disorientated Hulk would also be open to more of the same kind of telekinesis attacks that blinded him - a rock to the back of the head to get the semi-blind Hulk to turn away from Vader and *slice* there goes an Achilles tendon or perhaps float a tree in front of the blinded Hulk for him to attack thinking it is Vader and there goes a knee cap.

It is immensely attritional and will take time but Vader's thousands of hours of training and experience of tracking down and killing hundreds if not thousands of Jedi show that not only does he have the patience, he has the tactical skill.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

All quotes from Wookipedia:
Skywalker was skilled in the use of telekinesis able to lift heavy objects with minimal effort. During his duel with Asajj Ventress on Yavin IV, he easily deflected a large pillar back at Ventress when she hurled it at him and immediately afterwards he used the Force to block her Force Push without even slowing down. He was also skilled at Force Jump, and was able to leap massive distances. Skywalker was also capable of a powerful Force Push; however it should be noted that despite having a stronger connection to the Force than Obi-Wan Kenobi, his Force Push was unable to overcome Kenobi's during their duel on Mustafar. He was also skilled at Jedi Mind Tricks. However, Skywalker also had a habit of using the Force Choke power, a sign of who and what he would later become.

Because his limbs were severed and his body severely burned on Mustafar Darth Vader lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly eight-tenths of the strength of the Emperor. But even still, Vader wielded tremendous power and skill. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been even more powerful than the Emperor.

Because of his decreased mobility, he was at a disadvantage when dueling against beings using faster and quicker combat styles like Ataru. To counter fast-moving opponents, he would use the Force to pull out anything from his surroundings that wasn't nailed to the ground and fling the improvised missiles at his opponent. Without moving a muscle, anything from the venue of the battle could be used as a weapon to crash against Vader's opponents from all directions in a never-ending barrage. Darth Vader first used this tactic in the Duel on Mustafar, slicing shards of metal from the walls and shooting them at Obi-Wan Kenobi. Darth Vader also used this tactic to bring down Jedi Knight Roan Shryne, and most famously Luke Skywalker in their first duel on Bespin.

It should be noted that Darth Vader, despite being a powerful Sith Lord, was unable to generate Force lightning. This was due to his cybernetic implants, and any attempt by Vader to generate it would cause it to backfire, electrocuting his life-support systems, causing it to short-circuit and kill him.

Vader also appeared to have great physical strength, able to lift a grown man by the throat with one hand, and picking up the Emperor and hurling him to his death. Whether these feats result from his use of the Force or from the power of his cybernetic limbs is unknown. However, it seems most likely to be a result of his mechanical appendages, as when he choked Kenobi in their battle on Mustafar.

Let's have a look at the abilities of the force:

Force push:
Hulk once faced Unus the Untouchable and the Blob. Unus was a mutant who had the gift of creating psionic shields and had the ability to use force pushes. The Blob had superhuman strength and had the ability to make himself the literal immoveable object. Unus mutation had gone wild and was that strong that it was actually slowly killing him. In a battle with the Hulk they attempted to crush him between Unus's irresistible force push and the Blob's immoveable object. Hulk not only defeated both guys he hit Unus's forcefield with that much impact that he destroyed it, in the process saving Unus's life. A more recent example is during WW Hulk when he defeated the Fantastic Four including the Invisible Woman who has that strong force capabilities that she easily defeated all the other members of the FF (Reed, Jonny and SHulkie who was standing in for the ever lovin blue eyed Thing at the time) as Malice during the Secret Wars 2 period while under the influence of Psycho-Man.

Force Jump:
Hulk can cover hundreds of miles in a single bound, moving on...

Jedi Mind Tricks:
Not going to happen. Marvel's top psychics can't permeate his defences and their prowess is far superior to the Sith Lord.

Force Choke:
Firstly, this isn't a puny human larynx this is the Hulk's - I doubt it would rate higher to him than a tickly throat. Secondly, He can survive underwater and in space - asphyxiation ain't doing squat.

Using Force telekinesis:
Even allowing that this battle zone has debris for Vader to perform this, all hitting him with rocks and stuff is going to do is piss him off and he will just keep on coming.

Strength:
Wow, he can lift a man with one hand... anyway...

None of Vader's Force Powers will stop or debilitate him in any way so that leaves this a simple battle. Is the lightsaber sufficient to stop him?

Besides the life support it provided his ravaged body, Vader's Sith armor also offered some protection against the blades of lightsabers. In a climactic duel with his son in the depths of Cloud City, a quick blow from Luke's lightsaber appeared to cut the armor only shallowly, although this was enough to draw a surprised cry from the Dark Lord.

However, due to the size of his mechanical hands, Vader was forced to make the grip considerably thicker and longer than his original lightsaber, resulting in an inelegant weapon, verging on ungainly.

A lightsaber blade was a mass-less form that neither radiated heat nor expended energy until it came into contact with something solid. The power of the energy blade was so great that it could cut through almost anything, although the speed through which it cut depended on the density of the subject. One important note about lightsaber wounds is that they rarely bled profusely, even when a limb had been severed. This is because the energy blade cauterized the wound as it passed, and thus even a severe wound did not tend to bleed heavily.

Given how dense the Hulk is, using a lightsaber on him is the equivalent of using a blowtorch on steel, you will eventually cut through it. Bad news, it is likely to be stuck in Hulk's body leaving Darth wide open and that is game over for the former Anakin Skywalker!