Wait, you said you wanted compare DiCaprio without all the qualifications. I gave you two actors that are better than him; it doesn't matter if they haven't had anything worthwhile in a decade or not.
I said he's the best American actor working TODAY. That means TODAY, Tdigs. And what reflects today is RECENT work, not shit from the eighties, seventies and sixties.
See above. Leonardo DiCaprio has yet to turn in a performance even as good as Norton's in Primal Fear.
Lol... DiCaprio in What's Eating Gilbert Grape blows Norton in Primal Fear out of the fucking water.
Also, his performance in The 25th Hour is better than anything DiCaprio did last decade.
I love The 25 Hour, but Leo's performances in Revolutionary Road, Blood Diamond, and The Aviator are all better performances than Norton's performance in that. The Oscar nominations and other awards/critical praise prove that to be a fact.
None of DiCaprio's work touches what Sean Penn achieved with I Am Sam...I think that came out last decade.
Leo played a better ****** in What's Eating Gilbert Grape.
Depp is definitely not a main-stream actor; he does mainstream films, but he intersperses them with smaller productions.
In the past five years, these are the movies Johnny Depp has starred in.
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Corpse Bride
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street
Public Enemies
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassu
Alice in Wonderland
Every single one of those are mainstream films... how the fuck is Depp not a mainstream actor?
I'll give you Tom Hanks, and I'll concede that I used him as a comparison. But, when you say American mainstream actors, these are DiCaprio's peers, for lack of a better word. So, all I have to do now is retract my previous statement: DiCaprio is only the second greatest mainstream American actor currently working; Tom Hanks is number one.
And what has Tom Hanks done recently? Oh yeah, those shitty Da Vinci movies. I guess his performances in those were better than everything DiCaprio did from 2000-2010, huh?
I'll take Whitaker's work in The Crying Game, Ghostdog, and The Shield over anything DiCaprio's done.
I LOVE Ghost Dog, but no... his performance doesn't match-up to Leo's best work. The Crying Game is one of the most overrated movies of all time, with Whitaker's performance perhaps being the best thing about it, though I still wouldn't rank it above DiCaprio's best work. And I never watched The Shield, but if he's so great in it, then where are his Emmy nominations for it, Tdigs?
Seriously though, I'm a fan of Whitaker's, but he doesn't deserve to be listed with the best actors from America right now. He does way too many shitty movies for that.
What do you mean not as versatile as DiCaprio? DiCaprio has done one film that actually required him to move out of his comfort zone: What's Eating Gilbert Grape?
Have you not seen Blood Diamond or The Aviator?
Unlike DiCaprio, Freeman doesn't have the same latitude; he's typecast as the calm, level-headed supporting character who narrates. However, his first Oscar nomination came from his portrayal of a pimp in Street Smart; DiCaprio would never be able to do something like that.
And I doubt Freeman would be able to do something like What's Eating Gilbert Grape... what's your point?
I'll take The Manchurian Candidate over anything DiCaprio did last decade. Also, DiCaprio will never turn in as great of performance as Washington did in The Hurricane.
The Manchurian Candidate was good, but it was a typical Denzel Washington performance. You talk about a comfort zone... Denzel rarely comes out of his.
And The Hurricane sucked ass. This is coming from somebody who absolutely adores boxing movies and those revolved around boxers.
You asked me to list better actors without all of your qualifications; I did just that. When it comes down to it, DiCaprio has little to no competition in terms of whom we can compare him to. I gave you a list of 8 actors, and he ranks ahead of 7 of them.
When you look at the last decade Tdigs, there's no arguing that hardly anybody matches Leonardo DiCaprio's body of work. Blood Diamond, Revolutionary Road, The Departed, Gangs of New York, The Aviator, and Catch Me if you Can are all critically acclaimed, award winning films. And all those films were built around HIS performances in them. Who else really matches up from the last decade?
Who the fuck knows Ziyi Zhang's name? Honestly, could people name her if they tried? No, they would see her picture and say, "That's that Chinese woman from Rush Hour 2 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon."
People know a good amount of her movies though. She stands out in those films that became popular in the West. All you have to do is say what movie she was in and describe her character, and most would be, "Oh yeah, I know who you're talking about."
You absolutely cannot say the same about Isabelle Huppert and Catherine Deneuve. People say those names, you'll get asked.. "What have they been in?" And when you answer, they'll have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
For Huppert, they'd say, "That's that French woman from I Heart Huckabee's, while for Deneuve, they'd say, "That's that woman who was the face of Chanel in the 80s."
I Heart Huckabee's sucked ass and hardly anyone remembers that film, other than it being absolute shit. And you're full of crap with the Deneuve reference. When you leave the house today go up to 100 strangers and ask them who she is; I GUARANTEE you won't find a single person who will say that or even have a clue as to who the fuck you're talking about.
You know little to nothing about European films. I respect your admiration for martial arts films from the East (and I'll be the first to admit that some of the best films in the world came from Asia), but to say that European films are pretentious while showering praise on American indie films that can't even get a limited theatrical release here is, at best, straight-up laughable.
You know I don't believe all European films are pretentious. You also know I've seen my fair share of them. Have I seen as many as you? No, but still... I GUARANTEE I've seen more than the average joe, which was my point. I'm not trying to say I'm an expert, but I still can have a valid opinion on the matter of European films, because I've seen my fair share of them. You can discredit that all you want, but you know it's true.
People HAVE heard of Belle Du Jour. Here, when xfearbefore comes in here, ask him if he's heard of the film; I can guarantee you that he's seen it.
Xfearbefore, one person out of thousands of members... big whoop. Tdigs, just admit that you misused the word "iconic." Quit arguing it.
Let me ask you another question: have you heard of Jules Et Jim? If not, then arguing about this is a moot point, as you're just simply out of the loop when it comes to significant European films.
That's one I have at least HEARD of. I know the name. I've seen something about it on different list(s) or maybe even a special on television before. Have I seen it? No. Do I know anything about its plot? Not off the top of my head, but at least I've heard of it.
What is this use of imdb as the end-all, be-all of a film's significance? Does everyone who watches movies belong to imdb?
LOL
I'm just using imdb as an example as to how you misused the word "iconic." You know damn well imdb is the best resource for movies on the internet, and the fact of the matter is, if Belle Du Jour was as "iconic" as let's say Seven Samurai, then it's votes and ratings on IMDB would reflect that. But it's not, so it doesn't.
Yes, I can. Anyone with the least bit of interest in film criticism will know that Belle Du Jour is a staple of European cinema. What has more of a chance of enduring: a film supported by fickle pop culture or a film supported by a corps of critics and filmmakers that is extremely conservative in what they consider great?
Tdigs, I got something to end this shit right now and prove you're wrong once and for all. Hopefully you'll quit with this nonsense after this.
If Belle Du Jour is this hugely significant, iconic film, then how come it didn't receive more votes from the top DIRECTORS and CRITICS in the World when talking about the best films in history? Surely, if it's as great as you claim it is, it would have received more than just 3 lousy votes, man. But, it didn't, and here's the proof:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sightandsound/topten/poll/list.php?list=films
Surely, you remember Sight and Sound's poll from a few years ago, right? About 100 Directors voted, as did around 100 critics. 885 different films received at least one mention from one voter out of those... dude, why didn't Belle Du Jour get more mentions if it's so iconic?
You mean that same mess of a film that netted her heaps of praise.
Yep, that movie. She was good in it, I've told you this before, but the movie sucked ass.
Or, are you talking about those other extremely significant films of hers, like La Ceremonie, The Story of Women, and Loulou?
Nope, none of those.
Also, there are only two things you can say about Zhang: she's pretty (I think this is what you're implying by calling Huppert ugly), and she's good at martial arts...I fail to see what's so fucking spectacular about this.
And she's a great actress. As I mentioned, The Road Home and Memoirs of Geisha showed she can act outside of a Martial Arts film. But honestly... even if she didn't have those two movies under her belt, I would still have high praise for her acting ability, because she gave AWESOME performances in movies like Crouching Tiger and Hero. Were her fight scenes kick ass? Sure, but she showed great emotion in each of those films. Emotion from the actors is what separates a good martial arts film from a great one, and because of her and her colleagues emotions, those martial arts films are legendary at this point. More legendary than any movie starring Isabelle Huppert and Catherine Deneuve. Fact.
I didn't recommend these films to you because of how much you hated La Pianiste. Unfortunately for you, you are in a minority, as almost all who see these films have nothing but great things to say about them.
Furthermore, if you like, I can do a point-by-point analysis of what makes La Pianiste so great; I believe I have already done this for you, though.
Fair enough.
What are you talking about? House Of Flying Daggers made a whopping $11 million here in the States. I can confidently say that Zhang had absolutely nothing to do with the American success of Rush Hour 2 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.
That's not the point. The point is she had memorable roles in Crouching Tiger and Hero, which were both a huge success here in the states, and all over the World.
Meh, AMPAS sucks absolute dick anyway when it comes to the nomination of foreign films. However, I'll concede this point, as I do use awards as a metric of someone's artistic merit; Zimou is someone who shouldn't have any nominations whatsoever, though, and I'll gladly debate you on why this is the case.
No debate is needed here. I just find it extremely flawed to call the man a hack and someone who can only design a set, when you look at all his accomplishments.
What's so original about it, besides the obvious (i.e., unlike any show made before it, it's about a high-school football coach in small-town Texas)?
It's the way they tackle subjects. They do it like no other show before. Take for instance the Smash character using steroids... now, of course there has been shows where a character used a drug like steroids, but in the manner FNL did it with Smash was beautiful and like something you've never seen before in any television show or movie. And it's like that for everything else they touch upon.
Also, you'll never see a show so true to a small conservative town, and they do that without making everyone look like a Bible-Thumping racist like you would see in pretty much any other show made these days concerning a small town like Dillon.
All right, I'll concede this point too. Friday Night Lights doesn't suck, it's just not as good as the best dramas that have aired this past decade. It's not as good as the following shows: The Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, Lost, The Shield, The West Wing, 24, CSI, Deadwood, House, Big Love, and Dexter. That means it's number 12, at best.
Out of those shows, I've seen full episodes of Deadwood, The West Wing, CSI and Six Feet Under. I would rank FNL above all four of those BY FAR. The Sopranos, The Wire, Dexter, and Big Love are all shows I fully intend to get into one of these days, and then I'll see if I have to reconsider my opinion. Fuck the rest of those listed though.
Anyways, Tdigs.. quit being so fucking rude, man. You have all these fine posters giving their list... give them the time of day and address their lists.
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