WCW Region, Third Round, 15 Min Iron Man Match:(2)Randy Savage vs.(7)Ultimate Warrior

[klunderbunker]

This is a third round match in the WCW Region. It is a 15 minute Iron Man match. It will be held at Time Warner Cable Arena in Charlotte, North Carolina. Assume one week has passed since the second round match.

Iron Man Match Rules: The match will have a 15 minute time limit and the winner will be the man with the most falls (pinfalls, submissions, count-outs or disqualifications).

#2. Randy Savage

Vs.

#7. Ultimate Warrior

​

Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.

 

[deem]

Warrior would and should win this. At Wrestlemania 7, with both in or near their peaks, Savage hit Warrior with five consecutive elbow drops roughly 15m into the match, with Warrior kicking out. You really think Savage can get multiple falls in 15m?

In comparison, Warrior is famous for coming out quickly and putting big names away. He'll have absolutely no problem being at top speed for 15m and picking up multiple falls - the quick time limit absolutely suits him here.

I mean, Warrior has always had the kayfabe upper hand over Savage. This gimmick just exaggerates it even more.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

A lot of its personal preference but I'm taking Savage in this one. Sure, his win/loss record against Warrior is less than stellar but this match favors him, not because its an iron man (warrior can last 15 minutes) but Savage is the type that will go down a fall by dq in order to get 2 and Warrikr doesn't have much time to catch up. If Savage beat the crap out of him with a weapon (like a sceptre) lost a fall he would get that fall back easily and get another one on top of it. Usually Warrior could come back but if he takes too much a beating 15 minutes might not be enough time.

Also I feel macho is better in every way. He's just as popular, more devious, smarter, better in ring, on mic and drew at least as much as Warrior if not more.

I know Warrior is often booked as unstoppable but when he's facing someone like Macho he needs more time to win, I don't recall him beating Hogan, Rude or Savage within 15 minutes, may have happened but his wins against top stars usually went a good amount of time.

Macho wins.

 

[deem]

I know Warrior is often booked as unstoppable but when he's facing someone like Macho he needs more time to win, I don't recall him beating Hogan, Rude or Savage within 15 minutes, may have happened but his wins against top stars usually went a good amount of time.

This is somewhat true, but the same holds true for Savage as well. Beating big names in huge matches in under 15 minutes is a rarity for anyone, but Warrior is as suited to it as anyone in history not named Goldberg. Just for fun though.

[youtube]cONoP4jKQ8c[/youtube]
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+ retained title in a cage vs Rude for WWF title at Summerslam in 9 minutes.

The theory of sceptre keeping him down for long enough? I don't buy it. It'd get a fall, sure, to equalise at 1-1. He was up and running after Savage less than 1m later.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3...-slaughter-w_sport?search_algo=2#.UVS1NpP3Moo


I get it. Savage is great and Warrior sucks. If you wanna vote Savage, it's cool. But i see no angle that it's the right decision from, at all.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Savage is a slippery fucker I can see a lot of ways he could steal a victory here. A cheapshot while the refs not looking on the floor gets a count out, a dq on himself to get a pinfall later, outside interference from Sherry, Elizabeth taking off her skirt to distract Warrior. I'm just saying outsmarting Warrior to achieve victory has been done before and heel or face Savage isn't above cheating. All Savage has to do is get a count out victory and survive the rest of the time and lord knows he's exactly the type that would do that. I didn't count Warriors IC title victories as I feel his best years were 90-91, anyways that's what I consider Warriors prime.

I don't know why you think I hate Warrior, I actually love the guy just not as much as Savage. Warrior could easily win don't get me wrong but I feel Savage could cheat his way to victory as well. Career wise I think Savage has the edge for a lot of reasons especially since his first title reign was more profitable than Warriors (at least according to Hogan. Ive also heard Vince say Warrior didn't live up to expectations as champ money wise). Warrior can beat Savage no doubt but Savage can beat Warrior in certain circumstances.

I'm a fan of both but I think Savage can win and I like him better so I'm voting for him.

 

[SSJPhenom]

If Savage goes over Warrior, there are several people I'm going to call out.

Throughout this entire tournament, all I've read as to why Warrior should advance is how he beat Hogan and Savage clean in consecutive WrestleManias. He's also beaten Savage outside of WrestleMania.

History is just not on the side of Savage his this match up. As much as I would like to for Savage to go over, there just isn't a scenario where I can see that happening.

I hate to say it, but vote Warrior.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

A 15 minute Iron Man Match??? Seriously???? Damn that's lame.

From a personal standpoint, I FAR prefer Savage over Warrior. Warrior had the better look, Savage was better at everything else.

That being said, I have to say I'm going towards Warrior here. Warrior's star power matched Hulk Hogan's at one point and he was on equal footing in terms of dominance. Warrior beating Hogan for the WWF Championship at WM VI was Warrior's finest hour and, frankly, it's an hour that Savage never had. We've seen Warrior go over Savage both at WM and outside of WM.

If Savage gains any falls in this match, it'd most likely be due to count outs or DQ. As much as I dislike Warrior, I can't vote against him here. If Savage makes it past this round, I won't complain though.

 

[Bernkastel]

Out of curiosity I looked up Warrior's win/loss record against Randy Savage, and it turned out to be 32 wins and 33 losses. I wanted a more in depth look, so I narrowed the search to display setting and location and I came up with this...

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=8...ocation=&arena=&showtype=&worker=&text=savage

Looking at this list one can clearly see that Warrior has defeated Savage in more important settings [world title match, multiple defenses across televised and house shows, and the Wrestlemania match.] The only major wins Savage seems to have over Warrior are in a gimmick matches like a steel cage, and multiple count out victories.

Both of these guys can go 15 minutes - it's not hard for someone like Warrior, let alone Savage. 90's Andre could do 5 minutes. That being said, I'd only expect it to be a one fall match by the end, with Warrior pinning Savage 1-0 before the clock ends.

 

[HBsam31]

I was never a fan of Warrior at all, but he has to win here. He has beaten Savage more than one time, and 15 mins is a short enough time that Warrior would still be running strong. Savage could get a fall sure, but as we saw at Mania savage hit him with 5 elbow drops and couldn't keep Warrior down. I hate to have to vote Warrior, but he is the right answer here.

 

[PsychoBlack]

A 15 minute iron man match may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of.

This match would come to a draw and I'm assuming we'd go to sudden death. With that being said Savage would definitely cheat during this sudden death period to win, that's just his nature. No match between Randy Savage and Ultimate Warrior on a stage like this would be booked to go less then 20 minutes so I don't really see how this stipulation could effect the match. It's a regular singles match and I'd book Savage to go over because this is a tournament to crown the greatest star EVER. Not the greatest star of a 6 year period. Lots of younger fans may not even have a clue as to who Warrior is and even the ones my age (If their not as big of a nerd as me) may know him as simply the guy that appeared from smoke in WCW. Savage may be the most emulated wrestler ever.

Vote Savage for being the bigger star and fuck whoever thought a 15 minute Iron man match would be a good idea this far into a tournament crowning the greatest superstar ever.

 

[Big Sexy]

If this were a 60 minute Iron Man match then Savage would have a shot but it's not happening here. Warrior beat Savage at Mania at the biggest stage of them all when both were in their primes and Savage's career was on the line. Savage has some count out house show victories over Warrior but I don't think he has ever pinned Warrior.

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There's a nice video of Warrior pinning Savage in under two minutes. Don't get me wrong, Savage is one of the greatest of all time and he and Warrior are two of my top 5 favorites ever but this stipulation doesn't do him any favors.

 

[The Brain]

This one has to go to the Warrior. Like Big Sexy said, if it were 60 minutes I might vote Savage. 15 minutes is nothing. It may as well be a standard one fall match. I don't want to be a downer about the stipulation but it seems irrelevant here. Actually I take that back. The stip favors Warrior. Savage would need to extend the match to weaken Warrior if he has a chance. They would have to work a faster pace and Warrior might be the only guy that would have Savage at a disadvantage there.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Just want to ask KB for some clarity here...

1) Are we to assume that there will be a winner after 15 mins?
2) If not, what will be the follow on? Sudden Death or an additional period were both guys can still score?

The reason I ask is fairly straightforward, I could see a prime face Savage going over but only in a longer than 15 minute match where I think he could catch a slowing Warrior with something like a roll up (say sliding down his back from the guerrilla press).

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Warrior takes this. Savage is the superior wrestler, talker, and better resume as a whole, but in a kayfabe match, Savage couldn't pin Warrior. Five elbow drops. FIVE. And Warrior wasn't pinned.

All Warrior needs is one pinfall and he'll get that before 15 minutes elapses. Kinda stinks, but I can't vote for Savage and not feel like a hypocrite.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Why the decision to go with the fifteen minute ironman match was made I'm not sure. It worked in FCW, but I don't see it working in WWE or TNA, but I digress.

It pains me to say I have to vote for Warrior. I fucking love Savage. I have a pair of Savage goggles, I still have my nWo Savage punch buddy, I have Savage bedsheets in my closet. None of that changes the fact that Warrior was built as a guy who went in and kicked ass in a hurry. If this was 60 minutes, even 30 minutes, I would give it to Savage, but 15 is all Warrior needs for one fall, which is all it will take.

 

[Tastycles]

I love Savage to bits, but this has to be the Ultimate Warrior's to win. Warrior got pinned about 3 times ever, there's no way he'd get pinned multiple times. Like has been said, Warrior has regularly beaten greats of wrestling inside 15 minutes, and takes a lot to put away. I prefer Savage, but there can be no doubt that Warrior would win this.

 

[SuperSteve16]

Warrior takes this. Savage is the superior wrestler, talker, and better resume as a whole, but in a kayfabe match, Savage couldn't pin Warrior. Five elbow drops. FIVE. And Warrior wasn't pinned.

All Warrior needs is one pinfall and he'll get that before 15 minutes elapses. Kinda stinks, but I can't vote for Savage and not feel like a hypocrite.

I completely agree. Randy Savage is a far better wrestler, better on the mic, and just has far more talent than the Ultimate Warrior. But Warrior always was fast out of the blocks so to speak and dominated most of his matches quickly while Randy Savage, while he out on masterpieces, was his best 15-20 minutes into a match. The Ultimate Warrior rarely got pinned, let alone several times and as history has shown, if Randy Savage couldn't pin Warrior after five elbow drops, then he is going to have a lot of trouble here.

As much as I hate to say it, The Ultimate Warrior gets the win here.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Put away the fanboy love for Savage and you reach the logical conclusion - Warrior wins this, easily.

Do you really believe a prime Randy Savage pins Warrior inside of 15 minutes? No chance. I don't think Warrior pins Savage prior the 14:30 mark, but he definitely wins.

I know Macho's better. Better talker, better wrestler and possibly a bigger draw. But this match doesn't favor Savage. Warrior rarely lost, and I'd be interested to know (not researching, far too lazy and busy) how many times he lost prior to the 15 minute mark. Not many, if ever, is my guess.

Warrior should win.

 

[Papa Pillman]

In a proper Iron Man match, this would be Savage's to win due to the endurance factor.

In a match built for speed like this one, Warrior's advantage is clear. This is a guy who was built around hitting big early offense. Warrior's early run against enhancement talent was Goldberg before Goldberg. He won the IC title in under 30 seconds. Granted the opponents I'm speaking of weren't Macho Man, but somebody has to be booked to get a fall here in the time alotted, and the advantage set by that rushed pace clearly favors Warrior.

In matches without ticking clocks, it only took Hogan roughly 17 minutes or so to put away Savage at Mania 5, Warrior actually beat Hogan the next year at Mania 6, and then the following year at Mania 7 Warrior beat Savage in 20 minutes. There is no reason to think that a fifteen minute clock and aggragate falls would allow Savage to overcome any of this.

The forced rush nature of the encounter only helps Warrior and is the ingredient he needs to win this match.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Wait, Wait, WAIT!!!


This is WCW. Warrior has a 100% loss record. Now what am I supposed to do? Do I completely ignore the venue?

How do I take this? A prime Warrior in WCW? He came in WCW with a lotta hoopla. Garnered a great level of interest. Then has a 5 star classic with Hogan and puts the Havoc in Halloween Havoc.

Someone clear this one for me one last time...

 

[dd23beatlesfan1]

I can't for the life of me, understand how so many people are saying this match clearly favors Warrior and that "you have to vote for him." This is an Iron Man Match (and yeah, I agree a 15 minute Iron Man Match is one of the lamest match ideas I've ever seen.) and it's not decided only by pinfall or submission. DQ's and countouts count as well. And Savage was one of the craftiest wrestlers ever. He wasn't below taking a DQ or countout victory.

He could goad Warrior into getting Disqualified, and he could take countout victories as well, which wouldn't be hard.


Keep in mind that Savage doesn't have to pin Warrior or make him submit here. I agree that there's no way Savage could accomplish one of those two things in 15 minutes. If this was a submission match or no DQ, no counout, then yes I'd have to go with Warrior. But it's not, and Savage has plenty more ways to win than Warrior (who wouldn't want to take a countout or DQ victory, being the noble "warrior" that he was), because he doesn't have a conscience, and he's just more crafty.


I think a match like this favors Savage, and that's just taking kayfabe into account. That's not even taking into account that I think Savage is by far a greater pro wrestler than Warrior, and that I prefer him much more. And I'm not a Warrior hater by any means. I loved him as a kid. But even back then I liked Savage way more, and that hasn't changed.


I'm voting Savage, and I could care less what anyone else here has to say about it.

 

[Loveless]

I thought a best-case result for Savage is a 0-0 draw. History seemingly speaks for itself, he couldn't put Warrior away.

And then I went researching and I found this

Less relevant, Savage also won a cage match over Warrior. This is all I need to believe Savage can outsmart the facepainted maniac and trick him into getting counted out.

 

[Tyrath]

Winning a cage match has nothing to do with pinning him in under 15 minutes. In his prime Warrior was pretty unstoppable, and I can't see anyone pinning him in under 15 minutes. On the other hand, Warrior had beaten a lot of people really quickly. I believe this includes a really short match with Savage and even Andre the Giant. This match just wasn't a good draw for Savage. While Savage is definitely the better superstar overall, I just don't see him getting the win here.

Warrior takes this 1-0.

 

[deem]

I thought a best-case result for Savage is a 0-0 draw. History seemingly speaks for itself, he couldn't put Warrior away.

And then I went researching and I found this

Less relevant, Savage also won a cage match over Warrior. This is all I need to believe Savage can outsmart the facepainted maniac and trick him into getting counted out.

Overall, Savage had 36 wins to Warriors 32. That is RIDICULOUSLY flattering though - on the big stage, he was Warriors bitch and this is definitely the big stage. Furthermore, the gimmick suits Warrior. Whats more, let's look at their win loss concerning prime Warrior and not pre-1990 Warrior - Savage was in between WWF title reigns so certainly still a relevant main eventer here, while Warrior was solely midcard until 1990 and the Royal Rumble minipush leading to Mania.

Warrior - 33 wins. Savage, 22 wins.

He clearly had house show edge too in this time, sure Savage picked up his share but he's certainly the underdog. ESPECIALLY on the big stage where he was absolutely dominated every time by a prime Warrior.

I agree with all the countout arguments for Savage btw - he's never pinned Warrior and WM7 is pretty big proof that he never could, so the only possible Randy argument is he gets Warrior counted out and survives the 15m without getting pinned. Possible, certainly doesn't make him worth a vote.

 

[The Brain]

Wait, Wait, WAIT!!!


This is WCW. Warrior has a 100% loss record. Now what am I supposed to do? Do I completely ignore the venue?

How do I take this? A prime Warrior in WCW? He came in WCW with a lotta hoopla. Garnered a great level of interest. Then has a 5 star classic with Hogan and puts the Havoc in Halloween Havoc.

Someone clear this one for me one last time...

Allow me to clear this up for you. Yes, ignore the venue. It's meaningless. Look at the picture instead. That's the Ultimate Warrior that's in this match. The only reason you would take the venue into consideration is if you're desperate to find a reason to vote against Warrior and you just can't find one.