WCW Region, Third Round, Ladder Match: (5) Andre the Giant vs. (13) Goldberg

[nightmare]

I would like for someone to tell me how Goldberg 'couldnt' hit Andre with the Jackhammer is at all a credible statement....


Yell all you want about "Big Show isnt Andre" but- I am not comparing legacies or accolades- I am comparing size. Show & Andre are almost the same exact freaking size. If Goldberg can hit him with the Jackhammer- then he would be capable of doing the same to Andre.


But this isnt about pins. It is about climbing a ladder while your opponent is down.

Goldberg still wins. He is quicker and more agile than Andre. Sure- Andre was agile for his size, but that does not mean he matches Goldberg in that department. Goldberg could put Andre down long enough to climb a damn ladder. Hell, he might even just push that ladder over with Andre on it, send him crashing to the outside & then take his time. He could even drop him to a knee & hit the patented 'Bret Hart concussion kick'- which would certainly rattle Andre a bit.


WCW would love this match for the money it drew, but they certainly would book Goldberg to go over.



Do you hear that?

[YOUTUBE]JaETHb3uJFo[/YOUTUBE]

...its what the arena will sound like when Andre loses the match....

 

[PsychoBlack]

You made 2 arguments:

1. Goldberg has ladder match experience and Andre doesn't.
2. Goldberg beat up big guys like Scott Norton and Reese.

The first one is useless, as you pointed out, and the second one is comparing career nobodies to one of the all-time greats. You have no credible argument there.

Scott Norton is 2 time world champion, that's far from a nobody and something Andre never did.

I think Andre is getting extremely overrated here. Their were plenty of mega drawing Giants over the years in pro wrestling, Andre is remembered more fondly due to the fact that he wrestled Hogan at Mania. Ernie Ladd, Haystacks Calhoun, Killer Kowalski, Abdullah The Butcher, Jerry Blackwell. All of these men were draws on the same level of Andre and just as good of workers point blank period. None of them are even in this tournament; The only reason Andre gets the credit that he does is because Hogan slammed him. Look at what Andre for what he was, and that is an attraction who more often than not came up on the short end of the stick.

 

[steve_smith]

Scott Norton is 2 time world champion, that's far from a nobody and something Andre never did.

I think Andre is getting extremely overrated here. Their were plenty of mega drawing Giants over the years in pro wrestling, Andre is remembered more fondly due to the fact that he wrestled Hogan at Mania. Ernie Ladd, Haystacks Calhoun, Killer Kowalski, Abdullah The Butcher, Jerry Blackwell. All of these men were draws on the same level of Andre and just as good of workers point blank period. None of them are even in this tournament; The only reason Andre gets the credit that he does is because Hogan slammed him. Look at what Andre for what he was, and that is an attraction who more often than not came up on the short end of the stick.

Ho Lee Shit. This is bullshit. Andre, if anything, is underrated here. He was a top draw way before his match with Hogan. He was the highest paid wrestler in the world for a certain period of time. He's a first ballot hall of famer basically on anyone's hall of fame. Wasn't he the first wrestler inducted into the WWF Hall of Fame? Andre is one of the few who are responsible for mainstreaming pro wrestling. He was a household name before he feuded with Hogan. If you asked people off the streets to name two pro wrestlers, they would say Hogan and Andre (before WM3). Andre's fame and noteriety and his place in wrestling history can't be overstated.

One thing is for sure, Andre was a much bigger draw than Goldberg. Goldberg had his run then, shortly after, his company went under. Also, there is a correlation between Goldberg's run with WWF and a decline in their tv ratings. Andre, on the other hand, helped mainstream wrestling back in the early 80s.

They both had periods of invincibility in their careers but Andre's lasted longer. After they both suffered defeats, Andre was still a top draw in wrestling. Not Goldberg. Where the hell is Goldberg now anyways??? Andre was still putting butts in seats when he could barely walk. Goldberg isn't wrestling now because he's not that interesting.

Why would any reasonable bookmaker eliminate one of their top draws this early in a tournament?

Andre losing would be huge and it would be putting somebody WAY OVER. This would have to essentially be the winner or someone in the final four. I just don't see Goldberg as that guy. Vote Andre.

 

[bmpunk76]

This is very simple Andre the Giant was far too big to even climb a ladder. Goldberg had the strength and explosiveness to knock andre on his ass. In a regular match I would vote Andre but this IS a ladder match so I vote Goldberg

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

How many times do I have to repeat this to you? Ladder match experience doesn't matter. You brought up the perfect example of a match that proves that.

Goldberg never faced a guy with the size and aura of Andre. Comparing any match he did have is idiotic.

Then for you it doesn't matter. It does for me. Sure the Taker match propagates that a ladder virgin may win, but there are other factors that favor Goldberg.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I am surprised this is so close. I think of Goldberg as an IWC whipping boy. I expect Andre to lose unfairly to the Harts, Guerreros, Punks, and Jerichos of the world but not someone with a crap legacy like Goldberg. It is the damn prime argument that I can't stand. Legacy should win over prime, especially when you have two guys who are no longer working, let alone at the top of their profession. Goldberg had what? 5 years? It was a great run for the most part but after a while it got tiresome and hard to believe. His signatures (the spear and jackhammer) were the kind of moves that were either impossible to affect or even apply to a guy the size and build of Andre (again Andre is not Big Show). A guy that attacks the head and legs would be better suited to beat Andre. On top of that, put a long weapon in Andre's hands (like a ladder) and you lose any speed advantage. And on top of on top of that, ladder matches are never about the faster guy racing to the top. They are about a vicious struggle leading to one guy slowly and dramatically reaching the prize. A speed advantage means nothing at the end.

Is this a better argument than "Goldberg would never fight on the Sabbath"?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Scott Norton is 2 time world champion, that's far from a nobody and something Andre never did.

I think Andre is getting extremely overrated here. Their were plenty of mega drawing Giants over the years in pro wrestling, Andre is remembered more fondly due to the fact that he wrestled Hogan at Mania. Ernie Ladd, Haystacks Calhoun, Killer Kowalski, Abdullah The Butcher, Jerry Blackwell. All of these men were draws on the same level of Andre and just as good of workers point blank period. None of them are even in this tournament; The only reason Andre gets the credit that he does is because Hogan slammed him. Look at what Andre for what he was, and that is an attraction who more often than not came up on the short end of the stick.

Andre is an attraction. The best way to use someone like Andre is to have them beat everyone in their path until you have the hero come and defeat him, just like WWF did with Hogan. The problem is that Goldberg wouldn't have been that guy. He was never "the guy" in WCW, even when he was the champion. If anyone were to be the one Andre got fed to, it would've either been Hogan or Sting.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Among the logical reasons that I've stated previously as to why you should vote for Goldberg over Andre...here's a visual aid.

[youtube]wzk9Dea0JKc[/youtube]

Golberg is a wrecking machine and would have no trouble incapacitating Andre, a far less mobile opponent than Jericho, if Goldie had no trouble sparking the internal combustions of Jericho, HBK, AND Randy Orton in a matter of minutes.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Andre is an attraction. The best way to use someone like Andre is to have them beat everyone in their path until you have the hero come and defeat him, just like WWF did with Hogan. The problem is that Goldberg wouldn't have been that guy. He was never "the guy" in WCW, even when he was the champion. If anyone were to be the one Andre got fed to, it would've either been Hogan or Sting.

Goldberg was as hot as any of those men you mention, and thats not how WWF booked Hogan/Andre. It didn't mainly stem from Andre being a force, it came from some place more human, ego. That little trophy he got.

 

[GI Cake]

I voted for Goldberg, if only because as a kid Goldberg was one of my favorites growing up watching WCW. Goldberg was always far more entertaining to me and because of that he gets my vote.

 

[steve_smith]

This is way too close..... be smart people.

In case you are having trouble deciding. Andre, not only a WAYYYYY Bigger Draw, not only had a superior won loss record in his prime, not only was his career 5Xs the length of Goldberg's, not only is he the FAR BIGGER ICON of pro wrestling, he is also BY FAR a bigger badass in real life.

This should be the kicker if you, for some fucked up reason, are having a hard time with this...

Andre could kick anyone's ass in the locker room. On youtube, there's a video with Barry Darsow who is telling the story of Andre throwing the 6'7 330 lb. Blackjack Mulligan across the room and almost off of a 5 story balcony because Blackjack wanted to test his own manhood by punching Andre in the face.

On the contrary, Goldberg was kind of a bitch for being as big as he is. Bret Hart tells this story of Chris Jericho, of all people, kicking Goldberg's ass. Un-friggin-believable.

Andre would kick Goldberg's ass in real life and, in kayfabe, he would never let someone like Goldberg go over him.

Be smart, don't vote with bias just because you watched Goldberg wrestle. Vote Andre the Giant. One of the biggest, baddest, most successful wrestlers to ever grace this form of entertainment.