What's the harm in a little swapping amongst partners?

[LSN80]

Unfortunately for 38 year old Emily Roth, her involvement in a "tight knit" group of partner swapping was the precursor for events that lead to her death. How responsible? I'll let you decide.

I couldn't find the article online from my local paper that details the event, but I'll do my best to summarize. According to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, the 38 year old Roth was found stabbed in her pool last week, where she lost consciousness and drowned a few minutes later. Yesterday morning, Pittsburgh police arrested her 16 year old stepdaughter, Anna, who admitted to killing her stepmother after finding her in the pool with one of the men from her partner swapping parties. The catch? 16 year old Anna was also having an affair with the man, 41 year old Thomas McCormick, and acted out of jealous rage. McCormick was arrested for statuatory rape and is expected to be charged with helping to cover up the murder.

The article goes on to describe a young girl's curiosity as she found out about her parents extra-curricular activities. According to her statement, she followed her parents one night after she had heard heavy gossip regarding her parents partner swapping at school. She further described watching inside as her parents and other couples engaged in partner swapping, where partners engage in spouse swapping, specifically for the purposes of having sex. The rules were supposed to be simple. No affairs, no drugs, no personal information given(beyond names), and children are never to find out.

Not only did Anna find out, but she was drawn to the 41 year old McCormick, and began exchanging emails with him from the family's home computer, where she claimed to be a 19 year girl. McCormick denied knowing the girl's age, noting her to look much older then her 16 years, which in fairness, she does.

McCormick further broke the rules by meeting up with Anna after exchanging a series of emails, and they began a passionate affair. However, as stated earlier, McCormick was also having an affair with stepmother Emily, further violating the rules. Anna arrived home one night to find McCormick and Emily having sex in the family pool, and flew into a jealous rage. Grabbing a grilling prong, she viciously attacked her stepmother, stabbing her twice, where she proceeded to lose consciousness. McCormick then helped the "girl he loved" dispose of the body, stashing her in the woods nearby. After security tapes showed her and McCormick in the beginnings of a night of an affair outside of a local hotel, Anna broke down and admitted both the affair and the murder, claiming she flew into a jealous rage.

So how much of this can we blame on the sex parties? The rules were broken by McCormick, so in a perfect world, no one should have found out. But as is usually the case, none of these things go as planned. There are simply too many variables, in my eyes, to account for. As in this case, Mr. McCormick and stepmother Emily could have had all the sex they desired within the rules of the party. My belief is that it's never that simple, as some attachment is always formed through prolonged sexual relationships, within the rules or not. In this case, an attachment was obviously formed between Ms. Roth and Mr. McCormick, and an innocent sixteen year old transformed into a jealous killer as well. I know this is an aberration, as most stories or parties of this kind don't end in such extreme cases as murder. But can
these parties truly occur without any form of negative consequences?

The rest is simple. If the rules had been followed, Ms. Roth would likely still be alive today. This is more an indictment on the people involved rather then the nature of what they do, right? The rules specifically speak against the actions of Ms. Roth and Mr. McCormick, and definitively against the involvement in any shape or form of 16 year old Emily. So in essence, the fault lies with the people involved, not the recreational activities right? Harmless sexual adventures, correct?

Ill let you decide.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Why do I have the sense of deja vu here? Despite having very vocal proponents, swinging/polygamy/open relationships just don't seem to work for most people, this example just being one among a myriad of why this is the case.

Theoretically speaking, I think a swinging community of sorts could work. Unfortunately, not even something like this could effectively take into account the practical realities that you're freely exposing yourself to STIs/STDs and that there will definitely (not just probably, definitely) be at least one person in your group who can't even stay within the sexual boundaries of this community (regardless of the options available to them, they'll always want more and what they have will never be enough). I think the man mentioned in LSN80's story supports this last point.

 

[Dagger Dias]

The severity of a "harmless" sexual activity such as partner swapping depends on the strength of the relationships involved. I will discuss two different extremes.

When I was a teen a friend of mine and I had a double date. He convinced me to swap dates with him by telling me his then-girlfriend would teach me how to kiss. So he went with my date I was supposed to have been set up with while I was in the other room with his then-girlfriend. I got my first makeout session out of it, but drama resulted and I felt bad about it afterward. So even in a simple dating scenario between kids you open yourself up for getting hurt if you partner swap.

Then the other extreme is marriage. The strength of the relationship makes a difference here, as does the values of those involved. I personally believe that once you get married you make a promise to never be with anyone else but that person until death do you part, or if there is infidelity which brings me to my next point. "What's the worst that could happen?" people will inevitably ask. Infidelity destroys bonds of trust and love. If you care about your partner AT ALL you would want to never betray them by being with anyone else. In my opinion partner swapping is not harmless because it leads not only to infidelity but it can cause someone to leave their partner for the person they swapped for at the date/party/event.

The fault lies with the actions rather than the specific people involved. Partner swapping is not harmless. Period.

 

[Sinister Shadows]

Partner swapping in theory is harmless if all involved know the rules and truly want to proceed. The problems in this particular scenario came from everyone involved either not respecting the agreed upon rules, or putting themselves into things they had no business even knowing about in the first place.

The thing about partner swapping it that usually one of the partners that agree to it doesn't really want to, but does it because they believe it's what the other wants.

So with the right people, in the right situation it is harmless, but more often than not.. at least one of the people involved isn't right for it.. leading to problems.

 

[Mustang Sally]

.... and an innocent sixteen year old transformed into a jealous killer as well.

An innocent 16-year-old, huh? Only in American society can we manage to look for a way to absolve a "poor child" of blame...... to search for a way to explain and excuse the kid's involvement since it was "caused" by the actions of adults.

On a "retro" TV show a while back, the station was showing TV commercials from the past. In one, the ad was showing a teenage boy on a residential street, trying to open the doors of cars, until he found one unlocked. When that happened, he stole it. As he drove away, the announcer says: "Remember to lock your cars. Don't help a good boy go bad."

A good boy? How nauseating is that? They're trying to tell us that the boy is essentially a saint, and the only reason he went bad is because some poor schmuck left his car unlocked? That's the incident that started the little bastard on a life of crime never would have happened had the door been locked? Bullshit!

Yes, I know society today wants to hold children responsible for nothing ....(just don't do it in my backyard, kid), but somewhere along the line we need to teach them responsibility for their actions, instead of trying to mitigate their bad behavior when they do wrong.

Same thing with this girl. The wife-swapping nonsense had nothing to do with her crime. It just so happens she picked a guy who was boinking her stepmother. The morality of wife-swapping (how come they never call it husband-swapping?) doesn't even enter in the picture. The girl was jealous.....and psychopathic......which is a dangerous combination no matter what caused her to go over the edge.

I did get a kick out of the mention that the guy would be charged with having sex with a minor. Jeez, if the jerk helped the girl dispose of a murdered body, he's got a hell of a lot more to worry about than being charged with underage sex.

 

[GI Cake]

Personally I am very open-minded when it comes to one and being happy. No one should sit around and be miserable with what they have and who they are when they can simply change and be who they are. Both the wife and the husband were both completely okay with swapping and if it made them happy, you can't call them monsters. However, what happened with their teenage daughter is entirely different. She was traumatized from hearing and seeing what her parents were doing and the parents never fully explained to her what the shit they were doing with their neighbors.

This is just a sad and unfortunate case when a young, teenage girl goes out and tries to grow up to quickly.

 

[Loveless]

All the rules, logic and agreements in the world can't protect people from their feelings and human nature. It's arrogant to assume otherwise. The more people involved, the bigger the likelihood of someone getting jealous/unhappy/unsatisfied/angry and things like this are the inevitable end result.

 

[Larry]

But can
these parties truly occur without any form of negative consequences?

So in essence, the fault lies with the people involved, not the recreational activities right? Harmless sexual adventures, correct?

Ill let you decide.

Here's where I'm at. If I love my wife, and she is precious to me, she enriches my life, I respect her body, and I cherish the romantic relationship we share, why would I want to share her with anyone else? Why would I want to let another man engage in sexual activities with my wife who I love, who I share that special relationship with? Why would I allow another man to be with my wife the way I am with her? That is; to me at least, sacred and special, it means something, the relationship between a man and a woman, and the act of not just having sex but making love.

What would ever posses me to allow another man to make love to my wife? It would destroy me and tear me apart to witness my wife being pleasured by another man, and to witness that man being pleasured by my wife. Not because someone else was capable of doing so, but because that is something that is supposed to stay between us. It is not for another man to know the sensuality, the true naked beauty, the raw passionate nature of my wife, or the loving fire that we dance in together. It is not for another man to have and enjoy the body, mind, or spirit of the woman I love, just the same as it is not for another woman to know or have me in that way if she is not my wife.

Further, what about the value of the marriage? Why would someone choose to engage in acts of infidelity against their partner, and to allow their partner to engage in acts of infidelity against them? What about the sacred bond of being faithful and true to one another? That is one of the primary tenants of marriage. Whether consented or not between the two parties, at that point the value of the marriage is lost. The people involved couldn't possibly cherish one another or the intimacy of their love life. If you love your wife or your husband, why would you want someone else and why would you want them to have someone else? Are you not there to have each other? If not, than why did you marry? If you did not love this person truly enough to commit to them, or to care whether or not they commit to you in that way, what value is there in your marriage?

To me this isn't just about partner swapping, but sexual deviance in general. Look at the proof, its right in front of your face. It doesn't come from just one thing or the other. Be it careless promiscuity, or infidelity, or self destructive sexual behavior, what good comes of any of it? Sex and how you engage in it may be a personal choice, but that is not to say that those choices do not come with consequences and that all of them are okay simply because they are what a person might think they want, and they are afforded the right to engage in them. Some might say "Well, what a person does behind closed doors is no business of anyone elses" and say "Oh it's harmless, it doesn't effect anyone", Really? Take a look at this incident, take a look at STD rates that are skyrocketing, teen pregnancy, rape both date and statutory, molestation and pedophilia, the health hazards of sodomy, erotic asphyxiation and its death tolls, on and on and on and on the list goes of all these things that all stem from sex and over indulgence, perversions, and deviance.

Everyone is entitled to do what they want in that arena to some extent, but that doesn't mean all of it is right, decent, moral, justified, or safe.

 

[ABMorales787]

So let me get this straight. Partners love each other. Partners get married. Partners decide to have sex with other people's partners. What the fuck did you get married for then? Anna's step-mom wouldn't be dead if she didn't get married or had her stupid spur of "I want another man's cock. But I still need my husband around just in case". The idea of marriage is that you want to wind down with one particular person. If you want to taste different things, don't get married. The "partner-swapping" rule of not knowing the opposite goes off the bag in stupidity instantly. You are giving the person you picked as your partner for life away to a total stranger for the most intimate act a human can engage in. No money, no sense other than "we thought it would be fun if me and my spouse did it with some strangers. Could have AIDS. Could have other STD's. Could be a tranny, could probably be an alien. Don't care, I just want to have sex but not with my spouse."

Fetish or not, you open yourself a to a huge world of possible problems. A common love interest in the family like in this case is just one of the potential problems that come from such a stupid act. That's kinda why us human males don't sniff a females ass and jump on their ass like dogs. We first get close to the point of feeling secure. Because we feel the need to know what we are doing. Of course, Mr. Cormick, Anna's mom and friends, must not be very good humans seeing how they don't care about intimacy at the least. At least with prostitution there's a reason of doing it for the money due to need and when cheating on your spouse, you do it because you like the outside party and for all intents and purposes know the person well enough.

 

[H33LTurn]

Personally I think sex parties are irresponsible. You reap what you sow and when you build an environment full of lust it sticks with you and eventually bites you in the ass like it did to this woman. Theres also the danger of spreading diseases but I wont get into that because its just redundant. And I'm not a fan of partner swapping. If two people genuinely care about eachother then seeing them with another person should trigger some for of jealously. Some people are looking for a good time and you cant confuse that with people who are actually in love.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

It really depends.

The sexual psychology between males and females are totally different. Men can spread their seed to, in theory, thousands of women. So we aren't at all as careful in chosing a mate and are likely to be more promiscuous and more likely to want to be promiscuous.

Women only get 1 shot a year (basically). So they are more careful and more jealous and less likely to be promisculous.

Which basically means that sex parties are natural for men but unnatural for females. for them to work, the females have to either be submissive and passive or extremely sexual.

From what I've seen, eventually it ends up bad because it doesn't blend with a woman's inherant sexual thinking.

Sorry for teh spelling errors that likely occured.....yes I realize that sentence in itself is funny and didn't correct it because of that.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

When you think about it, on the surface, it can just seem to be a little harmless sex. The problem is that humans beings are and/or can be complicated to the point where nothing is ever as easy as it appears to be.

I'm sure that there are some people that are perfectly happy in a swinging type of relationship. Based on everything I ever read on situations involving partner swapping or swinging or whatever, however, is that it doesn't seem to end well most of the time.

One of these complications that can arise are just simple, good old fashioned emotions like jealousy, infatuation, obssession or even love in some cases. Part of the appeal of the swinger lifestyle is that it's a thumb in the eye to the societal norm of monogomy. It's unconventional and goes against some of the longest held beliefs and moral views of most societies and religions aroiund the world. One big problem is that so many of these swinging couples have rules that both partners are supposed to follow. It's ironic that a relationship that primarily breaks so many societal rules is one that's often built on rules in the first place. Some partners can only play around with someone their spouse or whatever approves of, and only as long as they're present, and as long as it's not in the home, and as long as they don't have any interaction with children if someone in the situation has kids, and it can only be on certain days or nights of the week and so on and so forth.

That's all well and good but humans seem to be rebellious by nature and in almost every story I read about when it comes to this subject, someone winds up breaking those rules. Maybe a guy really clicks with this other woman that his wife approved of and wants to see her more often than his wife allows. Maybe they're actually falling in love, so they decide to say screw the rules and do their thing without the wife knowing about it. Maybe the wife herself meets some guy that she has great chemistry with and they meet outside of the bounds of whatever rules are set up, etc. Maybe these people have unprotected sex with each other and other people, which could wind up in pregnancy with an uncertainty of who the father is or contraction of STDs. That'd be an awkward situation, trying to explain to your kid someday that you have no idea who his/her father might be since you were involved in the swinging lifestyle back in the day.

Another commonality in this story compared with others I've read is that sex seems to be the center of the universe when it comes to the people involved. So much of their energy is devoted to attending these parties, planning these parties, looking for someone that they click with, just having sex with someone they're attracted to, etc. that it becomes harmful. In this case, look at the damage that was done: a young girl found herself in a situation that she wasn't even remotely capable of handling, she was taken advantage of by a sexual predator and it ultimately resulted in her killing her own stepmother. Look at how many lives have been decimated just so some people could get their rocks off.

As I said earlier, it's possible for people to live in this lifestyle and be perfectly happy. I belive those people are few and far in between when it comes to the long haul. They have to be EXTREMELY committed to one another, completely trusting, completely respectful of whatever rules they ultimately come up and they certainly have to be very, very, very careful that their sex lives don't cross over and contaminate every other aspect of their lives. The old addage of "it's ok as long as you don't hurt someone else" isn't all that accurate when you look into the sort of consequences that can come about. You can't predict the future, but enough people don't even try to plan ahead as it is.

 

[A Poster Named Desire]

Oh. I thought you were talking about a different type of swapping, which I was gonna type a post that would of been strongly in favor of it.

On the topic of swapping partners, I guess if Person A and Person B both come to a mutual agreement about it and conclude that it won't be harmful to the relationship, then more power to them. If that helps make the relationship work, then by all means go ahead...and don't let society's judge mental views sway you into thinking your in the wrong.