Would Hulk Hogan Have Been As Big Without The "Self-Destruction" Of Ultimate Warrior?

[PlayTheGame]

I recently watched the WWE's "Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior" dvd, and whether you believe WWE's or Warrior's side of the events that led to his career demise, the fact is that his career blew up in a hurry. But upon my view of it, I noticed something interesting: it appeared that Vince and the company were very much behind building up Warrior. They had big plans for him, he was over, and they obviously wanted him to be a top guy in the company for some time to come. But, for numerous reasons, it didn't unfold that way.

At Wrestlemania VI, Hulk Hogan put Warrior over clean. Warrior pinned Hogan clean during the height of Hulkamania. He retained his IC Championship and won the WWE Championship simultaneously. Championship-wise, it was billed as the biggest match thusfar in WWE history, as it was a winner-takes-all match. The winner would be victorious over the other face of the company, would have both top titles, and won have the victory in front of millions in the main event of the main venue of the year, arguably of all time up to that point. And they went with Warrior.

I think this clearly shows that the WWE wanted Warrior to become almost an equal of Hogan's, maybe even his eventual successor, as the Warrior was 6 years younger. The WWE wanted to establish another top face as a title contender besides Hogan, and they pushed Warrior to that spot. But then, Warrior began to run into backstage trouble, and after his reign, his career went on the decline. Although a few career revivals were tried, he never got back to his old spot.

But here's my theory: I think that since the Ultimate Warrior experiment exploded in the WWE's face, they immediately went back to Hogan as the clear face of the company and perennial title holder. In other words, I firmly believe that if Warrior never imploded, he would have taken away some of the spotlight (title reigns, popularity, attention) from Hogan during the early 90's, and Hogan would've never become as big as he eventually became. Now, I'm not saying Hogan wouldn't have become big. He would've found a way for sure, of course. But I think Warrior's exit really thrust Hogan into the driver's seat of the WWE as their focal point. After Warrior left, the only one who was really put over Hogan in a big way, Hogan took the WWE ball and ran, becoming a multi-time WWE Champion and the clear face of the company. But what if Warrior had still been there to stand in his way? Surely Warrior would have been given the belt a few more times if he had just been able to keep cool backstage and out of controversy. It could've very well been Warrior headlining some of those later Wrestlemanias, not Hogan.

So what do you think? Do you think Hogan got HUGE because Warrior didn't stick around? (And again, I'm not saying Hogan wouldn't have become big with the Warrior around, just maybe not as big.)

 

[Headman]

Hogan would have been just fine. He was already the biggest name in the history of the industry when he passed the belt to Warrior. As for Warrior "Self destructing", that's a myth created by the WWE because the Warrior pulled out of the DVD deal. It was a hit piece plain and simple. Warrior failed because the WWF did nothing new with him. They put him in the same rehashed feuds he had as IC champion just one year earlier. The reason... they probably doubted his in-ring ability so they put him with familair opponents that they knew he could work with. Besides, Hogan would have been WWF champion again because Warrior was supposed to return the favor the following year.

 

[Pedigree1]

good question hope i can answer it! Warrior if he would have kept his cool and not been a dick would have been almost as big as hulkmania IMO!! Hulk put him over clean at the skydome warrior pinned him how many people in the wwe can say that not alot i can assure you. To me it seemed warrior was supposed to be given the torch he was supposed to be the next big guy.

But as well know now that didnt happen because of warriors attitude and unprofessional attitude towards things. Sure if warrior kept his cool he would have been given a few more reigns but theres only one HH!! Hullk transcinded the business global to global made non wrestling fans tune into him!! Would hulk be as big without the self destruction of warrior i think he would have been. Cant forget after warrior left hulk was the man the main focal point in the early 90's!! Title reigns but to me if warrior did stick around hulk would have been as big as he is now!! Hulk still draws

 

[prush80]

IMO Hogan would have been fine, he was already a huge name before his match with Warrior. Without Andre or Piper is a different story. Also if Warrior did not have his "demons"or whatever you want to call it, wouldit have been him or Bret Hart to step up when Hogan left? Think about it, Warrior and Hogan go backand fourth with the belt with some guys being the transition between them (Million Dollar Man, Slaughter, Flair, Savage, whoever) Hogan decides to leave, Warrior is still there to be the champ. Would Hart have gotten a chance. Then think of HBK, would he been known best as a Rocker in the alternate universe? Could have made a very different world today!

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Hogan was not affected by Warrior, other than it gave him another bite at the title that he might not have otherwise had ("Hey Vince, I never let you down")

Warrior was unstable from day one and that for VKM was part of the attraction but what hurt Warrior long term was not so much his arrogance but his delusions.. He was at the end of the day a one trick pony, Hogan and Savage had a modicum of depth to them as wrestlers and characters. Warrior ranted, ran in, shook the ropes, 5 moves of doom and out... At Summerslam 88 it worked, cos it was fresh... 2 years later and he's beating their best heel in a cage match that led to Rude's departure... there is something seriously flawed...

Vince caused his own problem by building Warrior much the same way as he did Hogan, he no doubt poured the same honey into his ear as he had Hogan, stoking his ego as something more than he was... Arguably Hogan only became a monster backstage once Andre was out of the picture, cos till that point The Giant could have killed him... If Warrior had learned from Andre, been happy to be an attraction, he would have been one of the all time greats. He chose to believe the hype Vince fed him, and behaved accordingly... Hogan capitalised to an extent by being able to jump right back where he was when it became clear he was not the next big thing in Hollywood... but he was hurt big time by the fact that he put the wrong guy over.... Had he put Rick Rude over, guys like Shawn and Bret would still have been where they were, but Hogan would have had a damn sight more cred today...

 

[midgensa]

This is a pretty solid thread idea right here.

I think Hogan would have been fine, but he definitely would have been rivaled.

The Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan feud is what got me into wrestling. They were ready to let Warrior take the top spot and at least be 1a and 1b with Hogan and he was MEGA over as the top face. People WANTED Warrior to win at WrestleMania.

I think wondering about Hogan's fate should Warrior have decided to carry the mantle is interesting to say the least. But it is just as sad to think about how huge Warrior could have been had he excepted the role.

I think the most interesting thing if Warrior had not flamed out would be to see the politics between Warrior and Hogan ... would have been fun.

 

[dtroppe]

Hogan would have been fine- most of his big moments happened before WM6 and then years later with the NWO and then WM match with ROCK- which neither would have been affected by UW as a top face in WWF. Warrior vs Hogan at WM 6 was one of Hogan's biggest and most remembered matches- it is a huge part of a huge career and regardless of the Warrior he was a huge star and still would have been. If Warrior was around more I think he would have made a lot of money for WWE and been one of the driving forces in the attitude era- the Warrior character could have evolved into a great heel for that era.

 

[JAZ]

wow, this really is a good topic and very refreshing.

I agree with the others, i believe that the Hulkster would have been just fine. My question is this: would one of them eventually become heel? think about it, after the Warrior's WM6 win over the Hulkster, he could have ran through the whole WWF roster and becoming this unstoppable force until WM7 came along. Everyone could have turned to Hogan say say that even though you lost to him the year before, he was still the best hope for stopping the Warrior. Or a different way of looking at it is that Hogan uses his rematch clause at WM7 to stop an unstoppable Warrior.

I was a HUGE Warrior fan and hated the feuds he ended up in. I liked Warrior facing Rude again but this time for the WWF title but HATED the Slaughter feud.

I love thinking about the "what ifs"

 

[Honkey_Kong]

Eh, I wouldn't put any weight in that "Self-Destruction" video. What happened between Warrior and Vince was between them. The people who appeared on that were obviously told to bury Warrior. The truth is we don't know what really happened and we probably never will. I tend to believe Warrior's side over Vince's, but whatever.

Bottom-line is Hogan was at his biggest when he defeated Andre. Everything after that was just a speed bump until his heel turn.

The Sgt. Slaughter feud was terrible though.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I agree Hogan would have been fine but it could have changed a lot of things. Maybe Hogan wouldnt have had the stroke backstage he had before if Vince felt he could fill that role with Warrior. Also someone brought up this effecting Bret/Shawn, I definitly could see that. More so Bret because he was a face. Shawn still could have bounced around for those guys (if they allowed him too). Eventually those two guys would have made it to the top regardless, I just dont know if they would have closed a ppv in 92.

The worst senario I can think of, is if Warrior stuck around and Vince went with Warrior/Flair at WM8 instead of Savage/Flair. Im willing to bet serious money the match would have been just a little different.

What if Hogan jumped ship to WCW in the early 90s because they went with Warrior? Imagine how that could have played out.

 

[JAZ]

Hogan going to WCW in early 90s would have def shaken things up in both companies. Being as popular as Hogan was, would the nWo story even been created or thought of? would Hogan have become a heel at some point?

There are always two sides of a story and it is only those sides that know the truth. I know the Montreal Screw Job is always brought up, but what really is the truth? Was everyone involved or was it totally a surprise on everyone's part? we can read what who said in what book or article, but ultimately we won't know the truth. I, for one, believe everyone was in on it and they did a pretty damn good job acting it out. My point is, we don't know the real intentions or truth if Vince told his team to bury the Warrior.

 

[Big Sexy]

The way you worded some things in the initial post makes it seem like Hogan wasn't that big before the early 90's and that is obviously a ridiculous claim. Hogan's biggest and best years were before his feud with Warrior and during that feud. Hogan was already the biggest star in wrestling history before he lost the belt to Warrior and even if Warrior was a model employee Hogan would still be considered the biggest name in wrestling history.

Once Hogan's title feud with Slaughter was over, he was never again fully entrenched as the main title carrier. He and Taker swapped the belt and then it became vacant. Then Flair won it, followed by Savage, Flair again, and then Bret Hart. Hogan only won the title one more time in his initial WWE run and that was just for a couple months in his brief feud with Yokozuna before Hulk left the WWE for almost a decade.

Warrior's issues changed the course of a few different careers but certainly not Hogan's. His WWE time would have played out similarly regardless of what Warrior did. Guys like Savage and Bret Hart benefited from Warrior's troubles but not Hogan.

 

[Arsenal]

I get the point you are trying to make in this thread but the way you worded some things makes it seem like Hogan wasn't that big before the early 90's and that is obviously a ridiculous claim. Hogan's biggest and best years were before his feud with Warrior and during that feud. Hogan was already the biggest star in wrestling history before he lost the belt to Warrior and even if Warrior was a model employee Hogan would still be considered the biggest name in wrestling history.

Once Hogan's title feud with Slaughter was over, he was never again fully entrenched as the main title carrier. He and Taker swapped the belt and then it became vacant. Then Flair won it, followed by Savage, Flair again, and then Bret Hart. Hogan only won the title one more time in his initial WWE run and that was just for a couple months in his brief feud with Yokozuna before Hulk left the WWE for almost a decade.

Warrior's issues changed the course of a few different careers but certainly not Hogan's. His WWE time would have played out similarly regardless of what Warrior did. Guys like Savage and Bret Hart benefited from Warrior's troubles but not Hogan.

Exactly. Hogan was already the biggest star in the history of wrestling well before Ultimate Warrior even showed up, and was closer to the end of his initial WWF run than the beginning when he put over the Ultimate Warrior at WrestleMania VI. So by no means did Hogan "become as big" because he got the ball back as champion after the Warrior. Hogan would have been just as big either way, because he was already that big. As others have stated, it was probably the match against Andre the Giant at WrestleMania III that made Hogan as big as he would ever become.

The quoted post is also correct that the "self-destruction" of the Ultimate Warrior really benefited other guys like Bret "Hitman" Hart especially, who got his first title run by beating Ric Flair in place of the soon to be fired Warrior. Also other guys like Shawn Michaels and Diesel benefited by moving up to the main event quicker than they would have if Warrior still held the #1 spot.

 

[Headman]

Eh, I wouldn't put any weight in that "Self-Destruction" video. What happened between Warrior and Vince was between them. The people who appeared on that were obviously told to bury Warrior. The truth is we don't know what really happened and we probably never will. I tend to believe Warrior's side over Vince's, but whatever.

Bottom-line is Hogan was at his biggest when he defeated Andre. Everything after that was just a speed bump until his heel turn.

The Sgt. Slaughter feud was terrible though.

Exactly. I keep seeing people quote that DVD without knowing that it didn't start as a hit job and would have been a more balanced DVD had Warrior not backed out of the project. There is very little truth in the DVD but you wouldn't know that from reading this thread.

 

[JJ15776]

I'm really confused by this thread. You see, Hulk Hogan was on the decline in the WWF at WrestleMania 6. For the rest of his run with WWF, he never came close to approaching how huge he was before that. I mean, hell, 2 years after the supposed "Self Destruction" of Warrior, Hulk Hogan was out of the WWF...and he was off TV for almost a year of those 2 years due to the steroids controversy. The only noteworthy thing that Hogan did after Warrior's "Self Destruction" was beat Yokozuna for the title and lose it back to him a few months later. (He beat Slaughter for the title before Warrior's "Self Destruction" and Warrior was still a main eventer at that point, having beaten Randy Savage in a Retirement match at the same WrestleMania.)

To further illustrate my point, you said "It could've very well been Warrior headlining some of those later Wrestlemanias, not Hogan." but Hogan headlined exactly 1 WrestleMania (in a non-title match) after Warrior's departure - and it was immediately after that that Hogan took a leave of absence because of the steroids stuff. (Note that the aforementioned defeat of Yokozuna doesn't count as headlining, as he was advertised in a midcard match and that title match was announced on the spot.)

Hogan got big again by going to WCW and forming the nWo. Obviously Warrior had nothing to do with what Hogan did in WCW.

Not trying to be a troll or anything, I just don't understand what this thread is all about.

 

[JAZ]

i think, and most likely the obvious answer, is that Hogan tried something new with being a heel when he was so use to being a crowd favorite face made the nWo so successful until it became stupid with new members and different versions of it. and if it weren't for the nWo, then Hogan's career would have been over.

 

[HBsam31]

I don't really think it would have made any difference either way. Hogan regained the title at Mania 7 against Slaughter, shortly after that he lost it and won back from undertaker for a very short time before the title was held up. Then he got the quick title victory over Yokozuna only to lose it back for good a month or two later. His title victories after mania 6 were lackluster to say the least. All of his big moments happened pre Mania 6, and was already big enough that the NWO angle would have been just as effective. Warrior would have provided him with a super over opponent to swap the title with so if anything I think that Warrior staying around could have made Hogan even bigger.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Im going to have to disagree with Hulks best days being behind him and having a lackluster carrer after WM6. I got into wrestling after summerslam 91 to watch Hulk Hogan. I knew who Hogan was before I knew what wrestling was. He was far above anyone else in late 91 to mid 92. If it wasnt for the wonderful world of VHS I would probably be arguing that they were his best days. So even though they werent as good as his Andre days I still think they were pretty good.

I do think Hogan still would have turned and joined the NWO. The wrestling business was changing and Hogan was smart enough to see it coming.

What lies were in the Warrior dvd?

 

[GameOver]

the only thing different would've been Warrior wouldn't have lost the title at Royal Rumble and likely Hogan vs Warrior 2 would've happened at Mania 7 instead of the crap fued in WCW, Hogan winning the title back probably, if not he would've left for WCW after Mania 8 i'd say. Either way his WWF headline career was winding down they would've had to let someone else take the ball at some point.

Hogan wasn't around much following WrestleMania 7 so not much different on that front if Warrior had stayed stable.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Hogan was already huge before Wrestlemania VI. His legacy, and popularity was built in the 80's.

That being said though, the WWF was Warrior's for the taking from 90 to 93, possibly even 94. He could have easily been the man of the WWF in the first half of the 90's if he had buckled down, and focused on becoming a better performer, and a better person.

They would have pressured Hogan into a heel turn for a rematch, and that would have drove him out of the company probobly sooner that 93(I'm thinking around WM VII). Hogan & the Warrior vs team Slaughter at Royal Rumble 91, Hogan turns on Warrior, breaks the American Flag over his back, and joins Slaughter's faction to set up Warrior vs Hogan II at Wrestlemania VII. After Wrestlemania have Slaughter, and his goons attack Hogan for not winning the title from the Warrior, and have the Warrior run out for the save to turn Hogan back into a face. That would have been huge, but Hogan would never have done it. He would have quit first. So, the WWF was probobly not big enough for both of them, had the Warrior took Wrestling seriously.

Warrior should've been booked to go undefeated until Wrestlemania IX, or X, dropping the belt to Bret Hart in a huge upset in a Face vs Face match where the Hitman uses clean technique to upset the unstoppable monster who is undefeated for 3-4 years. Then you could have the Warrior team up with Bret in a series of matches against the top heels(Yokozuna, and somebody else) to help get Bret over further. After that he could have been used to get Diesel, Razor, and HBK over in 95-96 before fading into the sunset.

Hogan's arrival in WCW would not have been as big of a deal, and his Heel turn two years later wouldn't have been a big deal either, so had the Warrior focused on his wrestling career, there might not have been a Monday Night War at all.

I do think that Warrior's popularity would have petered out around 94 either way. Those types of characters were falling out of favor around that time, or soon after. He still would have been popular, but not as popular as guys like Bret, and Diesel.

One thing I can say about that DVD is that it is rediculously onesided. I didn't like the way everyone in it nitpicked every little detail about the Warrior when they were mostly flawed performers themselves. I disagreed with a lot of the opinions in the doc, and it led to me not watching the "Rise and Fall of the ECW" for the longest time, as I figured it to be the same onesided Vince Mcmahon garbage.

They should have had the Warrior on there to defend himself at the very least. I think he was a great character, and an entertaining performer. He was like a living, breathing, super-human, comic book hero.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I dont see Warrior being able to carry the ball that long. He wasnt good enough in the ring or on the mic. He always needed help. He needed Rude, Savage, Slaughter, Dibease to carry him.

Not only would Warrior not job to Bret, I dont think he would even work with Bret. I think Warrior title run was enough. I think he still plays secound fiddle to Hogan even if he stuck around. My concern would have been for Bret and Savages carrers if Warrior never left.

 

[Davi323]

I am going to go out a limb and assume that just about everyone who thinks that the Warrior would have had anything to do with Hogan's popularity is probably less than 25 years old. You can only refer back to Hogan/Warrior as something you heard about, without actually being witness to it, and it's obvious. Your sense of timing is 100% fucked up. Their Wrestlemania VI match happened in 1990. Prior to that, Hulk Hogan had already held the WWF Title for four consecutive years, followed by another title reign that lasted a year. By the time the Ultimate Warrior beat him, Hulk Hogan had held the WWF title for 1,838 days, or FIVE total years. Somehow I think that made a more meaningful mark on his legacy than anything he did with the Ultimate Warrior. He had also already main evented the single biggest match in WWF history, on the most important PPV in WWF history, when he wrestled Andre the Giant at Wrestlemania III. He had also already had his Mega-Powers feud with Randy Savage, and won a Royal Rumble as well. By the time Hogan feuded with the Ultimate Warrior, Hogan's popularity had already started to decline. The Ultimate Warrior in NO WAY conceivable, had any large affect on Hulk Hogan's legacy in the WWF/E. It was already set in stone.

You might as well have asked whether Ric Flair ever would have been as big if he hadn't joined Evolution...

 

[HBsam31]

I am going to go out a limb and assume that just about everyone who thinks that the Warrior would have had anything to do with Hogan's popularity is probably less than 25 years old. You can only refer back to Hogan/Warrior as something you heard about, without actually being witness to it, and it's obvious. Your sense of timing is 100% fucked up. Their Wrestlemania VI match happened in 1990. Prior to that, Hulk Hogan had already held the WWF Title for four consecutive years, followed by another title reign that lasted a year. By the time the Ultimate Warrior beat him, Hulk Hogan had held the WWF title for 1,838 days, or FIVE total years. Somehow I think that made a more meaningful mark on his legacy than anything he did with the Ultimate Warrior. He had also already main evented the single biggest match in WWF history, on the most important PPV in WWF history, when he wrestled Andre the Giant at Wrestlemania III. He had also already had his Mega-Powers feud with Randy Savage, and won a Royal Rumble as well. By the time Hogan feuded with the Ultimate Warrior, Hogan's popularity had already started to decline. The Ultimate Warrior in NO WAY conceivable, had any large affect on Hulk Hogan's legacy in the WWF/E. It was already set in stone.

You might as well have asked whether Ric Flair ever would have been as big if he hadn't joined Evolution...

This is exactly what i was trying to say. Hogan was long established before Warrior came around. Even as a kid before the internet I knew something was up with Hogan after the Warrior match was over. You could tell his popularity was dwindling, and the feud with Slaughter really wasn't all that great in the grand scheme of things. What memorable things did he do in WWE after the Warrior? I love talking about Warrior and Hogan but Warrior in no way had any effect on What Hogan was or became.

 

[HBKperfect23]

You guys are both right but the question was would the warrior have had effect on hogans carrer if he stuck around?, not, did warrior have an effect on hogans carrer. I still think the answer is no but its a legit question worth discussing. If the question was did warrior have an effect on hogans carrer?, it would be an insane question not worth talking about.

 

[GameOver]

and the answer is no. Hogan would still have won the title back at WrestleMania 7 and if he wasn't given only face of the company status still left between WrestleMania 8-9, the person who would've been affected was Randy Savage, he would've retired at WreslteMania 7 as initially planned and likely not gotten his second title run which only occured because Hogan and Warrior were both gone or leaving and WWF had to make a substitution.