deanerandterry's Colon Escapades

[HBK-aholic]

Gender Dysphoria is in the the DSM-5 that the APA uses (right or wrong) and is classified as a mental disorder.

so let's go with people actually being diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria.



proving people have been diagnosed brings up other issues but it does answer your question.

Perfect - let's use that. A diagnosis as the criteria would work just fine. A line.

It tires me out that it took so long for this, yet somehow I feel this still won't be acceptable for some people.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Perfect - let's use that. A diagnosis as the criteria would work just fine. A line.

It tires me out that it took so long for this, yet somehow I feel this still won't be acceptable for some people.

Sadly there are some people that will never be happy unless they're bitching and complaining.

 

[HBK-aholic]

To add to this,

Even if we did invade their personal privacy like that, it wouldn't matter. Lots of trans people don't get surgery on their lower half anyway. They just rely on hormone replacement because surgery on your lower half is scary and can be expensive. Genitalia doesn't make a damn bit of difference. The only way you could enforce these horrible laws anyway is by having a guard at the door named Mr. Friendly wearing a pair of gloves. Both of my friends have no immediate plans to get bottom surgery. Though I think for one of them, it's an eventuality.

The law doesn't matter to perverts. There is no real safeguard unless a cop is right there. And I understand being afraid of predators. It's something I never have to worry about, and I can only sympathize with how that feels. But it is just a feeling. Letting trans people use the restroom they want won't lessen your protection as a women in a public bathroom.

I respect your opinion, and I don't think your wrong. But I just want clarification on the bold part. Being transgender is 'just a feeling'. Let me be clear, before I'm flamed to death; it's a legitimate, real feeling, a real medical condition that we should accept, but it is a feeling, of being in the 'wrong', or a different, body. Why is that feeling legitimate, but my feelings not? What if I have mental health conditions/disorders that would make this situation difficult for me - would that increase the legitimacy of my worry? PTSD/Social anxiety/phobias? I'll admit this is more a devils advocate here, but I'm intrigued about what you consider the difference.

 

[BaconBits]

It wasn't an issue until people made it an issue. Letting them do something they've always been doing isn't pandering. The only pandering is the people that have turned it into a reason for people to be scared. Hell. The scary people using the loophole have only been made aware of it by people that are scared. They wouldn't have even thought of it otherwise.

It was made an issue by the media, who have decreed that anybody who doesn't agree with transgender bathrooms is a stupid cunt who should be demonized. And stupid people on both sides lap it up with fervor to fuel their "debates". It IS pandering to a minuscule interest group by making them a "priority"

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Your feelings are legitimate, you just haven't given any real data to support your feelings enough to justify them being a law. People can feel however they want to feel, that's not the issue but your feelings shouldn't come before anyone else's either. All I've done since the beginning of this thread was just stating the fact that your fear is essentially your justification for this being a law regardless of if that fear is warranted or not. If you can back up the claim that a unisex bathroom will in fact make things more dangerous for women than I'd gladly hear you out but so far your only real claim is I don't like it regardless of it's something that would actually affect you in any real way. If you're going to make claims about it being more dangerous for women then you got to back that up, you have not done anything of the sort.

The only reason I even bring up unisex washrooms, the only reason I have even thought of it is because of the whole transsexual issue, seems to me it's a pretty simple solution if a public washroom was in fact public to everyone. It's a washroom, a washroom is universal, everyone's gotta use it, why even bother labeling who uses which washroom?

There's nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable using a public washroom where a man is in, I never said it wasn't but that is no reason for the law to exist either.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

If you can back up the claim that a unisex bathroom will in fact make things more dangerous for women than I'd gladly hear you out

it's about the safety net dude. I'm failing to see why you're not getting this.

with separate bathrooms for Males & Females if a man walks into a women's bathroom a red flag is thrown up and people say what the fuck are you doing in here and he is removed.


with Unisex bathrooms that safety net is gone. A woman can walk in with a strange man following her 5 seconds later and no one can or will say anything because it's a Unisex bathroom.


I get that rapists and the like won't let a sign on a door stop them if they really want to cause trouble but as it stands right now there is a bigger chance they will be caught and stopped before they commit a disgusting crime because they will be somewhere they aren't supposed to be.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

it's about the safety net dude. I'm failing to see why you're not getting this.

with separate bathrooms for Males & Females if a man walks into a women's bathroom a red flag is thrown up and people say what the fuck are you doing in here and he is removed.


with Unisex bathrooms that safety net is gone. A woman can walk in with a strange man following her 5 seconds later and no one can or will say anything because it's a Unisex bathroom.


I get that rapists and the like won't let a sign on a door stop them if they really want to cause trouble but as it stands right now there is a bigger chance they will be caught and stopped before they commit a disgusting crime because they will be somewhere they aren't supposed to be.

Once again the women's washroom sign won't prevent rape, the safety net in question doesn't exist. Why do you think the bathroom is this universal place where people get raped? If a guy sees a women and watches her go into a washroom he could just as easily wait until she's done in there. If anything your prolonging the rape or shifting the rape to someone else, you're not preventing anything.

 

[Hyorinmaru]

Once again the women's washroom sign won't prevent rape

you bolded the part where I said I know this so why you added this part is beyond me

the safety net in question doesn't exist.

bullshit it doesn't. Are you telling me if you saw a man walk into a restroom that was clearly marked Women you wouldn't stop and wonder what the fuck he's doing in there?

Why do you think the bathroom is this universal place where people get raped?

potentially no witnesses. He could drag her into a stall. Hell some restrooms I've seen (granted they were Male) have a lock on them, especially in the smaller restaurants that only have 1 toilet.

If a guy sees a women and watches her go into a washroom he could just as easily wait until she's done in there. If anything your prolonging the rape or shifting the rape to someone else, you're not preventing anything.

again in the part you bolded (so I'm assuming you read it) I never said it would stop him 100% what I said was it raises the chances of him being stopped because he would be somewhere he isn't allowed.



Either you're trying to justify you using a Women's bathroom or your reading comprehension is shit because people have explained things to you pretty clearly and you're still not getting it.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Your feelings are legitimate, you just haven't given any real data to support your feelings enough to justify them being a law. People can feel however they want to feel, that's not the issue but your feelings shouldn't come before anyone else's either. All I've done since the beginning of this thread was just stating the fact that your fear is essentially your justification for this being a law regardless of if that fear is warranted or not. If you can back up the claim that a unisex bathroom will in fact make things more dangerous for women than I'd gladly hear you out but so far your only real claim is I don't like it regardless of it's something that would actually affect you in any real way. If you're going to make claims about it being more dangerous for women then you got to back that up, you have not done anything of the sort.

The only reason I even bring up unisex washrooms, the only reason I have even thought of it is because of the whole transsexual issue, seems to me it's a pretty simple solution if a public washroom was in fact public to everyone. It's a washroom, a washroom is universal, everyone's gotta use it, why even bother labeling who uses which washroom?

There's nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable using a public washroom where a man is in, I never said it wasn't but that is no reason for the law to exist either.

Okay, first, you made this thread, not to champion transgender rights, but to argue YOUR right to use whichever bathroom you want to. They are 2 different issues, that you've bullshitted your way through. Your original argument of 'Well, women haven't thrown me out when I've used their bathroom hundreds of times' was found to be you lying outright, because A) You later clarified it as being less than 100, or 'close to', rather than hundreds, and B) stated a large majority of those times were you working in a womens restroom, cleaning, re-stocking, 2 very different things.

I also don't want to stop transgender people using the bathroom of their choosing, I just wanted a clearly defined answer to what 'transgender' is, I like the 'have a diagnosis' answer. If you're transgender;that you want to use that bathroom, you will have at least discussed this with your medic, surely? That doesn't mean you stop everyone at the door and ask to see their vagina or medical records, it just means, if there is an issue, there's a legitimate answer for why you are where you were.

Do you see the difference, written into law, between 'Anyone can ignore gender signs on bathrooms and use whichever they want to', and 'Those with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria can not be discriminated against when using public restrooms of their choosing'?

If you could take a step back for just 1 minute, you might actually agree that the issue isn't transgender, it's thinking about ways to protect everyone, about taking a minute to question and plan, rather than rushing into something for fear of being labelled discriminatory or transphobic.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

bullshit it doesn't. Are you telling me if you saw a man walk into a restroom that was clearly marked Women you wouldn't stop and wonder what the fuck he's doing in there?

Do you really think anyone would actually do something about it unless the woman in question seemed to be in any distress? Considering I've walked into a women's washroom and never once questioned about it (even in a 65,000 seat stadium during an AC/DC concert) I can at least say there's little chance that anyone would pay so much attention to it they would actually do something about it. I see red flags aplenty going through life, unless the situation looks severe I'm not going to insert myself into said situation because there's no need to and the vast majority of the human populous has a similar mentality.

potentially no witnesses. He could drag her into a stall. Hell some restrooms I've seen (granted they were Male) have a lock on them, especially in the smaller restaurants that only have 1 toilet.

When it comes to smaller restaurant with 1 toilet the whole segregated public washroom argument doesn't hold any merit, a lot of them are unisex and if it's just 1 toilet with 1 person then you're going to notice if more than 1 person walks in there. Also, if someone is choosing a public washroom as a place to rape my guess is they aren't going to fucking do it when the place in question has a ton of people walking around, they will do it when few people are walking around and in that situation they aren't going to be noticed in the 1st place.

again in the part you bolded (so I'm assuming you read it) I never said it would stop him 100% what I said was it raises the chances of him being stopped because he would be somewhere he isn't allowed.

And as I said rape in a public washroom isn't going to happen unless there is very few to no one else around the public washroom in the 1st place over fear of getting caught and thrown in jail.

Either you're trying to justify you using a Women's bathroom or your reading comprehension is shit because people have explained things to you pretty clearly and you're still not getting it.

I can understand what they are saying plenty, I just don't agree with it.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Okay, first, you made this thread, not to champion transgender rights, but to argue YOUR right to use whichever bathroom you want to. They are 2 different issues, that you've bullshitted your way through. Your original argument of 'Well, women haven't thrown me out when I've used their bathroom hundreds of times' was found to be you lying outright, because A) You later clarified it as being less than 100, or 'close to', rather than hundreds, and B) stated a large majority of those times were you working in a womens restroom, cleaning, re-stocking, 2 very different things.

We've also established I've used women's washrooms plenty outside of working and not once did any of them say shit (including a 65,000 person concert). Seems to me the issue is more your issue than the issue of the average woman.

I also don't want to stop transgender people using the bathroom of their choosing, I just wanted a clearly defined answer to what 'transgender' is, I like the 'have a diagnosis' answer. If you're transgender;that you want to use that bathroom, you will have at least discussed this with your medic, surely? That doesn't mean you stop everyone at the door and ask to see their vagina or medical records, it just means, if there is an issue, there's a legitimate answer for why you are where you were.

I never said you did but what exactly defines transgender? I get what you're saying here, draw a line in the sand and base the law around that line but that doesn't solve the issue because there will always be a transgender person who doesn't fit that line but still feels more comfortable in a women's washroom, at that point the problem is right back to where it is right now. If you make it unisex however it eradicates that problem and from what I see doesn't cause any new problems such as an increase of rape.

Do you see the difference, written into law, between 'Anyone can ignore gender signs on bathrooms and use whichever they want to', and 'Those with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria can not be discriminated against when using public restrooms of their choosing'?

Yes I do but if I'm not hurting anyone while breaking the law it really shouldn't concern you now should it? I break a lot of laws that I don't agree with, most people who's ever smoked pot could attest to that.

If you could take a step back for just 1 minute, you might actually agree that the issue isn't transgender, it's thinking about ways to protect everyone, about taking a minute to question and plan, rather than rushing into something for fear of being labelled discriminatory or transphobic.

I never labeled fear as discriminatory or transphobic, I said your fear isn't enough justification for this law to exist. If you're going to say something like the washroom can become a more dangerous place because it's unisex you actually need something to back that up, being scared of something shouldn't just automatically make it a law. If unisex washrooms became a thing, rape went up and it went back to how it is now then that would be different, then you'd have something to back up what you're saying but I just don't see that happening. Is my issue and the transgender issue different? Most definitely but the solution to both issues can be the same.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I never said you did but what exactly defines transgender?

The medical definition of transgender?

I get what you're saying here, draw a line in the sand and base the law around that line but that doesn't solve the issue because there will always be a transgender person who doesn't fit that line but still feels more comfortable in a women's washroom

If the transgender person is transgender, they are able to use the bathroom they choose. If they're not transgender, they're not able to use the other bathroom. I don't understand how you don't get this.

Yes I do but if I'm not hurting anyone while breaking the law it really shouldn't concern you now should it? I break a lot of laws that I don't agree with

This nonsense sums up who you are, and I'm done replying.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

If the transgender person is transgender, they are able to use the bathroom they choose. If they're not transgender, they're not able to use the other bathroom. I don't understand how you don't get this.

I'm talking about sharing all public washrooms at this point whether they are transgender or not, you're giving no good reason why it shouldn't be that way outside of it makes you uncomfortable. At the end of the day it's a debate and all I did was present a hypothetical situation I'd be behind, I told you incident's of me going in there where women didn't mind (which means they don't see it as this awesome safeguard you claim it is) so I really don't see a unisex washroom being a big deal.

This nonsense sums up who you are, and I'm done replying.

Yeah because I'm not going to follow some law that makes no sense, if this law actually hurt someone outside of their own personal paranoia then I'd be singing a very different tune on all of this, but alas it doesn't. It simply comes down to me and you have a very different moral fiber. Your moral fiber is apparently going by the books, my moral fiber is not, my moral fiber is based on the simple question if I do something does it really affect anyone else but myself. If my actions are hurting someone then I simply won't do it, I don't want to hurt anyone, I don't want to cause them distress and if me using a women's washroom was actually causing damage to someone I wouldn't do it, fortunately that has not been the case and why would it be the case? I'm in there to do my business and go, just like every other woman in the bathroom which is why the vast majority (from what I've seen at least) don't care, to this day YOU are the only woman I've met that's actually have a problem with this and you couldn't even give me a good reason outside of your own personal skittishness.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah because I'm not going to follow some law that makes no sense, if this law actually hurt someone outside of their own personal paranoia then I'd be singing a very different tune on all of this, but alas it doesn't. It simply comes down to me and you have a very different moral fiber. Your moral fiber is apparently going by the books, my moral fiber is not, my moral fiber is based on the simple question if I do something does it really affect anyone else but myself. If my actions are hurting someone then I simply won't do it, I don't want to hurt anyone, I don't want to cause them distress and if me using a women's washroom was actually causing damage to someone I wouldn't do it, fortunately that has not been the case and why would it be the case? I'm in there to do my business and go, just like every other woman in the bathroom which is why the vast majority (from what I've seen at least) don't care, to this day YOU are the only woman I've met that's actually have a problem with this and you couldn't even give me a good reason outside of your own personal skittishness.

This is how a child thinks.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

This is how a child thinks.

No, a child has no regard for anyone, they just do what they want despite who it hurts and the repercussions of what they do. I don't act based on what I want to do and that criteria alone, I think about the other people involved, I think what damage it could do and who it could hurt.

When we are talking about me going to a women's washroom however. What damage does that do? Who gets hurt? The answer is nothing and no one. Me being in there does nothing to no one outside of people who have nothing better to do than to get bothered about shit that really doesn't affect them, bottom line.

 

[Xemmy]

I respect your opinion, and I don't think your wrong. But I just want clarification on the bold part. Being transgender is 'just a feeling'. Let me be clear, before I'm flamed to death; it's a legitimate, real feeling, a real medical condition that we should accept, but it is a feeling, of being in the 'wrong', or a different, body. Why is that feeling legitimate, but my feelings not? What if I have mental health conditions/disorders that would make this situation difficult for me - would that increase the legitimacy of my worry? PTSD/Social anxiety/phobias? I'll admit this is more a devils advocate here, but I'm intrigued about what you consider the difference.

Well, this is hard for me to point to, not being an expert. But from my experience with my trans friends, it's not merely a feeling in a specific situation. It's their identity, and it's not something they can curb effectively without being trans. They live it. Your feelings are legitimate too. And it's at that point that we have to weigh your plight against theirs. If there was a simple way to solve this, no one would be having this discussion. Because their safety is a factor too.

But if I'm honest, I don't think your fear is supported statistically. At least with this particular issue. Fear of assault in public, totally justified. Fear of being assaulted in a restroom. Again, totally justified. Fear of a crossdresser using a loophole to enter an unlocked, unguarded restroom to assault women and somehow get away with it simply for claiming that they're trans? Not really a big precedent for that. And so far, it's been tried and failed.

I don't think this rule has actually prevented anyone from being assaulted or creeped on. And that's where the difference comes into play. This entire dicussion actually made that a thing someone is now going to try and do, when they wouldn't have thought of it otherwise. But they're going to be treated the exact same way as a man walking in there by the law, and they're usually super fucking obvious because trans-people are on hormones and actually look like they're trying.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, a child has no regard for anyone, they just do what they want despite who it hurts and the repercussions of what they do. I don't act based on what I want to do and that criteria alone, I think about the other people involved, I think what damage it could do and who it could hurt.

When we are talking about me going to a women's washroom however. What damage does that do? Who gets hurt? The answer is nothing and no one. Me being in there does nothing to no one outside of people who have nothing better to do than to get bothered about shit that really doesn't affect them, bottom line.

Again: the way a child thinks. You've decided those women are comfortable with it because they haven't said anything. You have no idea what they think of you (not that you would care of course because YOU GOTTA GO!) and you've come to this conclusion on the fact that they're polite and you are a self centered dick who cares only about himself.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Again: the way a child thinks. You've decided those women are comfortable with it because they haven't said anything. You have no idea what they think of you (not that you would care of course because YOU GOTTA GO!) and you've come to this conclusion on the fact that they're polite and you are a self centered dick who cares only about himself.

Maybe a lot of them have flat out said they were comfortable, or maybe (just maybe) many of the females were incredibly inviting and friendly while I was in there. Many of them flat out TOLD ME they didn't care because believe it or not I didn't BARGE IN! I knocked, I asked, not once did anyone object to me doing so. If I was a self centered dick I wouldn't have bothered knocking, asking and actually finding out how THEY felt about it. Stop talking out of your ass and actually find this shit out before spewing your bullshit assumptions.

That's the difference between me and you KB on this one, I'm not just talking out of my ass.

 

[klunderbunker]

Maybe a lot of them have flat out said they were comfortable, or maybe (just maybe) many of the females were incredibly inviting and friendly while I was in there. Many of them flat out TOLD ME they didn't care because believe it or not I didn't BARGE IN! I knocked, I asked, not once did anyone object to me doing so. If I was a self centered dick I wouldn't have bothered knocking, asking and actually finding out how THEY felt about it. Stop talking out of your ass and actually find this shit out before spewing your bullshit assumptions.

You're lying. If you had time to do that, you have time to wait in line because of your BS lines about "medical emergencies." Hmm, let's ask a medical professional about this.

KB: "YO NURSE WIFE!"

Mrs. KB: "Yes Lord and Master KB, how may I serve you?"

KB: "How long does it take for you to die from not going to the bathroom enough?"

Mrs. KB: "At least a week. It's very rare and you can get deathly sick from it but it's not something that happens that fast."

KB: "Good. Now go clean the floor with a toothbrush."

So yeah: you don't have time to stand in a line but you have time to take a survey of the people in a bathroom, which you often said was empty?

Judges?

Judges: "He's a lying tool who only thinks of himself and likely has a small penis to go with his small colon and bladder."

The judges think you're a lying tool who only thinks of himself and likely has a small penis to go with your small colon and bladder.

Oh and you suck.

 

[klunderbunker]

Thread closed and odds are I'll punish deanerandterry for just being a dick. I figure I owe it to the law enforcement that he opposes.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'll open this thread again for two minutes for him to reply.

 

[klunderbunker]

Oh sorry. Had to close it again as he would bring in too much s***.

 

[Slyfox696]

Yes I do but if I'm not hurting anyone while breaking the law it really shouldn't concern you now should it? I break a lot of laws that I don't agree with

Well, aren't you just the cutest little badass! I mean, what a rebel! Seriously, how fucking cool you must be to break laws you don't agree with. I bet you even loiter in public areas too, don't you? Way fucking cool man.

I mean, who cares if you're unfamiliar with the reasoning behind the law, YOU are far more important than everyone else. But you're special. Very, very special. More special than all other people. That's why rules apply to everyone but you.

You cute little badass you!