Houston Region, Third Round: Embarassment: (4) Chris Jericho vs. (5) John Cena

[klunderbunker]

The following contest is a third round match in the Houston Region.

This match takes place in the Astrodome in Houston, Texas.

It is an Embarrassment Match.

Rules: In this contest, the match must be won by using one of your opponents pre-announced finishing maneuvers. Chris Jericho must win using either the STF or Attitude Adjustment. John Cena must win using the Walls of Jericho or the Codebreaker.

#4 Chris Jericho

Vs.

#5 John Cena

This contest is one fall with a 30 minute time limit. The match will take place in a 16 x 16 ring with no ramp leading to it. Any traditional managers for either competitor will be allowed at ringside.

As for voting, vote for who you think would win this match based on the criteria you choose. Some suggestions would be (not limited to): in ring ability, overall skill, their level of influence at the highest point in their career, ability to connect with the crowd, experience in major matches or simply personal preference etc.

The most votes in the voting period wins and in the case of a tie, the most written votes wins. There is one written vote per user, meaning if a poster make ten posts saying Bret should win that will count as a single vote. In the event of a second tie, both men are ELIMINATED, no questions asked. Only winners advance.

Voting will open in 48 hours and will be open for five days and all posts must be non-spam. You may use the 48 hours to present your cases as to why either competitor should/should not win.​

 

[Con T.]

There is absolutely no way, read, no way somebody can come up with a logical argument as to why Chris Jericho is going to win this match. Jericho needed a gimmick match to even stand a chance, and this particular gimmick does little, to any, real difference to the outcome of this match. If The Big Show is John Cena's go-to bitch, then Chris Jericho has to be #2, possibly #3 behind Randy Orton.

Riddle me this; who was it that got Chris Jericho fired the first go around? That's right, John Cena.

In 2008, in a year where Cena jobbed cleanly to Trips, Randy Orton, JBL, and Batista, who was so gracious to hand over to Cena his only championship of the year? That's right, Chris Jericho.

There is literally no escaping the obvious here. Anything that Chris Jericho has done is overshadowed by the fact that Cena is more popular, sells more merchandise, draws a bigger crowd, and did I mention that whole having Jericho's number thing?

Don't be silly in this match. If you're going to argue that Cena shouldn't win because of his lack of supposed technical skills, making sure he can't cinch in the Walls of Jericho, you'd better be prepared to answer why he uses the STF. If you're going to argue that Jericho is a better wrestler, I concede that. But it's not like being a better wrestler has done Jericho a lot of favors in the past. No, all it's done is relegate him to the land of transitional champions. John Cena, on the other hand, resides as a face of the company, who regularly defeats Chris Jericho in matches like this.

This one should be evident. Cena has already embarrassed Jericho for years. He is the Road Runner to Jericho's Coyote. And it's about that time that the stick of Acme Dynamite blows up in Jericho's face.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Well isn't this interesting?

How Jericho wins:

1. Use of the STFU. That would require John Cena to tap out. Don't see it happening.

2. Use of the Attitude Adjustment. Has a chance, no question. It's not a particularly difficult move to pull off, doesn't require a great deal of power (Cena's not exactly Mark Henry in terms of weight), and can be controlled to keep it away from the ropes to avoid a break. Jericho will need at least 2 of these to keep Cena down.

How Cena wins:

1. Use of the Walls of Jericho. Foreign territory. John is better known for upper body maneuvers rather than lower body ones, and Jericho is flexible enough to roll through it, counter it, etc. Still, it's not like the Walls are a terribly complex move to look for, like the LeBelle Lock.

2. Use of the Code Breaker. Similar to the AA, this isn't a tough move to do. It's sudden and can be used from just about anywhere. Also, where in the past Jericho may have countered a move like the Codebreaker into the Walls, that won't help him win here. Cena's shown agility, though he's not predisposed to leaving his feet.

I am torn. I want to give an edge to Jericho for veteran experience and resourcefulness, but Jericho has a subpar record against Cena to date.

Convince me.

 

[JGlass]

I give it to Cena. If anyone has Chris Jericho's number in the ring, it's John Cena, and this gimmick match doesn't do any favors for Jericho.

I think we can both agree that the use of each others' submission finishers will be fairly ineffective. I don't doubt that Cena can lock on the Walls of Jericho, but I do doubt how effective he can make it. Similarly, Jericho could probably lock on the STF, but there's no way John Cena is staying in that bad boy long enough for it to be effective.

I can't see Jericho actually executing the AA. I think he could on another opponent, but not John Cena. In addition to being too strong to allow a smaller man like Jericho to hit it, Cena is too proud to allow this to happen. If Cena has even an ounce of fight in him, he will use everything he can to prevent Jericho from hitting the move Cena made famous.

Jericho is proud too, but the Codebreaker is much harder to fight out of than the AA. The AA takes time to set up, and Cena would know what was happening if he found himself on Jericho's shoulder. Jericho could be avoiding a body shot from Cena one second to find Cena's knee in his face the next second as he feels himself being pulled down to the mat.

Add this together with the fact that John Cena rarely ever loses to Chris Jericho, and I think it's pretty obvious who wins this match: John Cena.

 

[shattered dreams]

I think this is a far from obvious outcome. The match style benefits Jericho IMO. This match necessitates using wit and moves outside your comfort zone. Neither of these things are specialties of Cena and happen to be a big part of Jericho's character. Cena may have ruled the forgotten years but in Jericho's prime he beat the Rock and Stone Cold in the same night. Jericho with a dirty move when Cena gets caught on the turnbuckle followed up by a top rope attitude adjustment should do the trick. Either that or Cena knocks himself out trying to do a codebreaker.

 

[Con T.]

I think this is a far from obvious outcome. The match style benefits Jericho IMO. This match necessitates using wit and moves outside your comfort zone. Neither of these things are specialties of Cena and happen to be a big part of Jericho's character.

[YOUTUBE]9oudgTDpasE[/YOUTUBE]

No wit, huh? Look, Cena isn't a neanderthal. This isn't the first time he's used intelligence. Using the ropes to choke out Umaga, making Batista quit by threatening to FU him off a car. Cena's used his brain plenty of times.

Cena may have ruled the forgotten years but in Jericho's prime he beat the Rock and Stone Cold in the same night.

With countless bits of interference, but ok, we'll go with that. Jericho beat them both. Only to have back to back matches with both men where interference prevailed, and playing backseat to Triple H and Steph during what was supposed to be his Wrestlemania.

Some prime, eh?

Jericho with a dirty move when Cena gets caught on the turnbuckle followed up by a top rope attitude adjustment should do the trick.

Right, because Cena goes to the top rope so often. Hell, he broke his neck by being caught going off the top rope. You really don't think he's that dumb, do you?

 

[Tastycles]

Cena has beaten Jericho in just about every circumstance imaginable, and I don't imagine that this instance would be any different whatsoever. The stipulation works in Cena's favour quite spectacularly. I don't see Cena ever using a codebreaker, but a Walls of Jericho isn't exactly rocket science - I once made someone cry doing it myself (The Walls of Jericho, not rocket science) - and Jericho tapping out is hardly unusual.

On the other side of the coin, Jericho has to either perform the Attitude Adjustment or the STF. I don't think the AA is likely. Jericho, rarely, if ever lifts people up, and while I imagine he would be able to do so to Cena, it is nonetheless a move that is usually countered a few times before it his hit. I can't see Jericho lifting Cena that many times. The STF is an absolute non-starter. Cena is never going to tap out to his own move, so this is his.

 

[a0161613]

I think this is a far from obvious outcome. The match style benefits Jericho IMO. This match necessitates using wit and moves outside your comfort zone. Neither of these things are specialties of Cena and happen to be a big part of Jericho's character. Cena may have ruled the forgotten years but in Jericho's prime he beat the Rock and Stone Cold in the same night. Jericho with a dirty move when Cena gets caught on the turnbuckle followed up by a top rope attitude adjustment should do the trick. Either that or Cena knocks himself out trying to do a codebreaker.

I wholly disagree and I could go to town on this but I had to pick you out for one point.

Edge, TLC, Toronto, Unforgiven 2006. If any one match proves Cena's guts, intensity, smarts and willingness to go outside of this comfort zone, then this great match proves it.

 

[shattered dreams]

Guts, intensity and hustle mean basically nothing in this match, loyalty and respect actually work against you. When you have to point out hey remember this one memorable time Cena did something smart or uncomfortable that is the whole point. Doing something once is a lot different than doing it a lot. The familiarity facilitates an advantage. It isn't that Cena cannot do these things, it is just harder for him, thus the advantage exists. I do not understand why Cena beating Jericho some when Cena was in his prime and Jericho wasn't is such a big factor for people. Jericho is more talented in the ring and on the mic. If hornswoggle can do the AA then Jericho certainly can.

 

[Richard]

I don't see why Chris Jericho can't beat John Cena here.

Sure, Jericho doesn't have the best record against John Cena here but just because Cena has beaten Jericho in the past, doesn't automatically garantee a John Cena victory in the future. Jericho is cunning, smart, ruthless and very able to win this sort of match against Cena.

Jericho could very well put Cena in the AA. He just has to lift him up and slam him down and as pointed out by SD, if Hornswoggle can AA Tyson Kid who is MUCH larger than him, Jericho could easily put Cena in the AA. People are never 100% immune to their own finisher moves. John Cena has put a lot of people away with the AA and who's to say it wouldn't have the same effect on John Cena? I think it very well could.

I would say Jericho is a submission specialist and if Jericho could get the STFU locked in then he could very well do some big damage to Cena.

Ladies and gentlemen of WrestleZone, vote Chris Jericho.

 

[El Rev sXe]

I ahve to agree, with Richard and shattered dream (the fuck?!), I don't see why Jericho couldn't win this one. Like they both have said, if the little bastard can do an AA to Tyson Kidd, why the hell Jericho couldn't? Yeah, we all know that Jericho has lost to Cena a couple of times, however I think that this time, the gimmick can help Jericho.

In the AE, it was very common to do the "embarassment", in some way, Jericho has the advantage.
The AA, isn't at all a diffcult move to execute neither the STF, the latter specially for a wrestler as Chris Jericho.
While the walls of Jericho may not be neither rocket science, I think that Jericho knows how to reverse it.
The codebreaker is a simple move, but Cena isn't as agile as Jericho. Remember whne Jericho pull out a codebreaker out of nowhere against Mysterio in the great american bash.

It's true, there's now way in hell Cena would tap to his own move, but neither Jericho. I do think that while is a simple move, the codebreaker needs a little of athletism to be executed correctly and devastating.

For me, Jericho wins after an AA.

 

[The Crock]

As savvy as Jericho is, he just can't win here. Look, the Walls of Jericho (elevated Boston crab) wouldn't be hard to lock in if you're Cena. Weaken Jericho down enough, then lock it in. It's not as if the move is some complex thing to do. If Cena could get enough leverage, he could harness the strength he has in his upper body and wrench back on Jericho's legs. Another thing working against Jericho would be the fact that using John Cena's finishers wouldn't exactly suit him well. He won't get Cena to tap, no way. So that immediately knocks out the STF. After that, all he is left with is the Attitude Adjustment. While some have said that Jericho could pull this off with ease, I don't think that's the case. Jericho's move set is more agility based, and he usually doesn't use moves where he necessarily has to lift his opponents up. I've seen him utilize moves like Powerbombs that require strength, but only on very small opponents. I don't see Jericho having the strength to execute the AA. Even if he could hit it once, I don't think it would be enough. Cena can generate a lot more power with his AA, Jericho would need multiple Attitude Adjustments, and I don't think he would be able to get Cena with it more than once, if even once.

 

[The Crock]

I ahve to agree, with Richard and shattered dream (the fuck?!), I don't see why Jericho couldn't win this one. Like they both have said, if the little bastard can do an AA to Tyson Kidd, why the hell Jericho couldn't? Yeah, we all know that Jericho has lost to Cena a couple of times, however I think that this time, the gimmick can help Jericho.

In the AE, it was very common to do the "embarassment", in some way, Jericho has the advantage.
The AA, isn't at all a diffcult move to execute neither the STF, the latter specially for a wrestler as Chris Jericho.
While the walls of Jericho may not be neither rocket science, I think that Jericho knows how to reverse it.
The codebreaker is a simple move, but Cena isn't as agile as Jericho. Remember whne Jericho pull out a codebreaker out of nowhere against Mysterio in the great american bash.

It's true, there's now way in hell Cena would tap to his own move, but neither Jericho. I do think that while is a simple move, the codebreaker needs a little of athletism to be executed correctly and devastating.

For me, Jericho wins after an AA.

Are you truly denying that Cena is athletic? Come on, dude. That's asinine. Cena is a VERY athletic man, he can fly around that ring when he needs to. One of the things I've always appreciated about Cena is his energy and his athleticism. He's a former college football player, an athlete. That right there gives me more than enough to refute your claim. To say that John Cena isn't athletic makes absolutely no sense. He's a bigger guy, he obviously won't be doing Lionsaults, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would be able to hit a Codebreaker.

 

[Teddy Irving]

Ok first off anybody who wants to claim that Jericho could not pull of the AA is actaully being completely absurd. Is CM Punk that much bigger than Jericho or that much stronger? No he is not. If he can pick Kane up and deliver a gts Jericho can lift Cena for the AA.

As for jericho not being able to win this type of match, I completely disagree. Jericho has the ability to do both of cena's finishers(as cena does have the ability to do jerichos). Lets take the submissions firstly. Which of these to moves is easier to reverse? Walls of Jericho without a doubt and if anybody can get out of it its going to lionheart himself chris jericho. The stf isn't nearly as easy to get out of, i believe the only way people get out of it is getting to the ropes, which isn't exactly easy is it?
I see this one ending with jericho winning. As somebody said earlier if Cena went for the codebreaker jericho could reverse this into a walls of jericho to ware cena down. Then when cena is worn out enough jericho will let go of one leg and slap on the stf for the win. If you want to say that cena would reverse the AA into a codebreaker i will accept that but i think jericho being the savvy veteran that he is will role to the outside after this. If jericho is going to be picking cena up for an AA he is going to be sure that cena is very worn down so he wont be in much shape to catch jericho before he gets out of the ring.

 

[Slyfox696]

I think this is a far from obvious outcome.

I don't see why Chris Jericho can't beat John Cena here.

I ahve to agree, with Richard and shattered dream (the fuck?!), I don't see why Jericho couldn't win this one.

As for jericho not being able to win this type of match, I completely disagree.

Just because Jericho CAN win this match, doesn't mean he WILL. There have been a lot of things thrown out which have been refuted (like Cena not being athletic when he is, or Cena not being witty when he is), but the one thing that I HAVEN'T see be refuted is the argument that Cena has basically owned Jericho over the last several years.

Furthermore, Jericho NEVER was as over as Cena is right now. Jericho's never drawn the way Cena does, and he's never been the focus of a company the way Cena has for the last 5 or 6 years.

Jericho COULD win, but he won't. And that's really all that needs to be said.

 

[Uncle Sam]

You know how many times Chris Jericho has defeated John Cena? I know; I looked it up. It's - wait for it - once. In 2002. In a close match.

Since then, do you know how many times John Cena has beaten Chris Jericho since then? Let me just get my abucus out. Right, carry the one, times by three, analyse the denominator, if x = tights and y = jorts, it's... Oooh, these are interesting results. According to my calculations, Cena has beaten Jericho in about, ooh, a fucking bajillion matches. And they said I wasn't a scientist.

Embarrassment match? Like fuck Jericho could win this one. Putting Jericho in the walls is pretty much the only way in which Cena hasn't embarrassed him over the last ten years.

Chris Jericho is John Cena's bitch. End of story. The only way Jericho wins this is if Cena is disqualified for anal rape.

 

[The Holy One]

There can be no logical arguement for Jericho winning this other than just personal preferrence. Cena has owned Jericho since the beginning of his career when he was Ruthless Agression starting out on Smackdown. Whether it's Y2J or Parasite, Hypocrite Jericho, Cena has beaten both numerous times including causing him to be fired. Cena wins this by making Jericho tap to the Walls at the 17 minute mark of the match.

 

[El Rev sXe]

Are you truly denying that Cena is athletic? Come on, dude. That's asinine. Cena is a VERY athletic man, he can fly around that ring when he needs to. One of the things I've always appreciated about Cena is his energy and his athleticism. He's a former college football player, an athlete. That right there gives me more than enough to refute your claim. To say that John Cena isn't athletic makes absolutely no sense. He's a bigger guy, he obviously won't be doing Lionsaults, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would be able to hit a Codebreaker.

You got me wrong Crock, Cena IS athletic, he is a big dude yet very agile. What I meant is that he isn't that kind of athletic as Jericho. What I'm trying to type is that even if Cena is athletic, he is athletic for HIS size. He doesn't have that kind of agility classic of cruiserweights, high flyers etc. Of course Cena can apply a codebreaker, most of wrestlers can, but I doubt that Cena could pull it out of nowhere like Jericho does.

 

[The Crock]

You got me wrong Crock, Cena IS athletic, he is a big dude yet very agile. What I meant is that he isn't that kind of athletic as Jericho. What I'm trying to type is that even if Cena is athletic, he is athletic for HIS size. He doesn't have that kind of agility classic of cruiserweights, high flyers etc. Of course Cena can apply a codebreaker, most of wrestlers can, but I doubt that Cena could pull it out of nowhere like Jericho does.

But you said he wasn't athletic, I can only debate based off what I read, but whatever. Cena isn't huge either, he's very well built, though. There's no reason he can't pull out a Codebreaker out of nowhere. It's a simple move to execute, it doesn't really require much agility to do, and even if it did, it's not as if Cena isn't agile either. I could see the Cruiserweight style being a factor if it was a move that actually hinged on that, but the Codebreaker can literally be done by anybody.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I would vote for Jericho, but I have those pesky "thoughts" that keep me from making illogical decisions.

Jericho may possess the physical tools necessary to pull off the moves he needs to in order to win the match, but he does not possess the ability to beat John Cena.

Cena may not be coordinated enough to ddo a Codebreaker, but he can easily pull off the Walls Of Jericho. So after Cena beats him mercilessly for as long as he needs to, he puts on the Walls and Jericho taps like a bitch.

 

[The Brain]

Well this should be interesting. We have the IWC God himself against one of their most hated. Hopefully enough intelligent voters will be able to look at this objectively and give the win to Cena. The record should really speak for itself. These two have wrestled each other many times in their primes and Cena has won almost every time. The title in the stipulation should tell the story. An embarrassment match. Honestly, who’s more likely to be embarrassed, Cena or Jericho? I know a lot people here would probably vote for Chris Jericho for president. I just hope objectivity and common sense prevail.

 

[JGlass]

You got me wrong Crock, Cena IS athletic, he is a big dude yet very agile. What I meant is that he isn't that kind of athletic as Jericho.

Uh... what? What do you mean Cena isn't the kind of athletic that Jericho is? Cena is an All American football player and one of the strongest men to ever come through the WWE. Jericho, on the other hand, has never been exactly viewed as a tremendous physical specimen or particularly athletic. Sure, Jericho can do the flips and the lionsault and all that, but won't help him win this match as much as Cena's athleticism will.

And if you're insinuating that the Codebreaker is a move that only a person as athletic as Jericho can pull off, think again. To pull of that move, all you have to do is jump, put your knee against your opponent's head, and fall. Cena is more than capable of doing that.

What I'm trying to type is that even if Cena is athletic, he is athletic for HIS size. He doesn't have that kind of agility classic of cruiserweights, high flyers etc. Of course Cena can apply a codebreaker, most of wrestlers can, but I doubt that Cena could pull it out of nowhere like Jericho does.

Like I said, being a cruiserweight≠being athletic. Doing the flips and cruiserweight moves certainly requires skill, but it doesn't necessarily require athleticism. And I don't know if Cena's version of the Codebreaker will be as sudden as Jericho's, but it will certainly be just as unavoidable and powerful.

 

[shattered dreams]

Cena did not have a winning record in matches with Jericho that were decided by pinfall or submission until Jericho was almost 35. And the matches Cena won at this point were literally Jericho's last two matches before leaving the company. Even if you count those bookout victories, Cena "dominated" Jericho in such matches by a blowout margain of 3-1 up until Jericho was almost 38. Why do the Cena people get to throw out everything Jericho accomplished before Cena even was in wrestling and declare Cena wins because he beat a damn near 40 Jericho a few times? Jericho was the 4th ever grand slam champion. John Cena isn't even a triple crown winner.

 

[The Crock]

Seriously? Bringing up the triple crown? Just because Cena won the US Title and not the Intercontinental Title doesn't make him an inferior wrestler to Chris Jericho. By that logic, Jeff Hardy would be considered better than Cena too... Yeah... Uhhmm... No. Cena is a bigger draw and a bigger star than Chris Jericho ever was/will be. There is no reason for Jericho to win here, it makes no sense. "Oh, Jericho won the European Title and the Intercontinental Title! He should win!" No sense at all. If any title should be looked at while making this decision, it should be the World Title and the amount of reigns.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

I'm looking for any reason under the sun to vote against Cena, but in this match, I can't. He owns Jericho, plain and simple.

I would rather watch Y2J wrestle a mop than view another Cena match, but come on, it's obvious. Jericho hasn't pinned John Cena, in a one-on-one contest, in nearly 9 years. That means something. From a kayfabe point of view, I could see Jericho winning this, if it weren't for how terribly Jericho has performed against Cena in the past.

I would love to see Jericho show John Cena how to properly apply the STF, but I doubt Cena would tap. Jericho could hit the firemans carry, but I have no reason to believe Cena wouldn't make it up before the count of three.

Unfortunately, I am once again forced to vote for John Cena. Oh, the pain.