Int Region, Third Round, Dog Collar Match: (1) Steve Austin vs. (9) Vader

[Pay Per Ghost]

Keep an open mind, brother.

You're not betraying anything or anyone by voting for the Greatest Superheavyweight in Pro Wrestling history in an international stipulation match featuring a 10 foot chain attached on one end by a 450 lb Mastadon who can perform textbook moonsaults at attached at the other end to a man's once broken neck.

I was genuinely scared of Vader in his FEDERATION DAYS!

Well I was 7.


He was 'watered down' by then as I've been told. Also I saw his WCW prime in retrospect and drew 2 pretty conclusions
A) He was Crazy, B) Bill Watts was crazy.

For me the nail here is the region. And the brutality of the stip.


This is gonna be brutal.

 

[Tastycles]

Keep an open mind, brother.

You're not betraying anything or anyone by voting for the Greatest Superheavyweight in Pro Wrestling history in an international stipulation match featuring a 10 foot chain attached on one end by a 450 lb Mastadon who can perform textbook moonsaults at attached at the other end to a man's once broken neck.

This is precisely the sort of fan boy argument without relevance that is the bread and butter of Vader's supporters. his ability to do a moonsault is useless here, don't be so fucking ridiculous.

Vader is 6 feet 5 inches tall, meaning his neck is roughly 5'6" off the ground. A professional wrestling turnbuckle is 5 feet taller than the ring apron. That's a combined height when he stands on the turnbuckle of 10'6", some six inches longer than the rope, and that's assuming Austin's neck is at the base of the turnbuckle. If he attempts a moonsault in this match, he is going to choke himself on the rope before he even starts.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

This is precisely the sort of fan boy argument without relevance that is the bread and butter of Vader's supporters. his ability to do a moonsault is useless here, don't be so fucking ridiculous.

Vader is 6 feet 5 inches tall, meaning his neck is roughly 5'6" off the ground. A professional wrestling turnbuckle is 5 feet taller than the ring apron. That's a combined height when he stands on the turnbuckle of 10'6", some six inches longer than the rope, and that's assuming Austin's neck is at the base of the turnbuckle. If he attempts a moonsault in this match, he is going to choke himself on the rope before he even starts.

His ability to do moonsaults in this match is irrelevant, yes, but it does remind people that you're not dealing with an immoble SHW here, you're dealing with a 450-lb athletic specimen with a streak of brutality that is almost unmatched.

It's a shame that it bothers you so much that Vader gets his fair due on these forums. The forums under rate some guys, the forums over rate some guys - I feel like the due Vader has gotten here over the past 7 years has been very accurate.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This reminds me a lot of when I am an instructor for various classes. I spend hours teaching people how to refer to manuals, and go through step by step in everything they have learned....then we go to the practical exercise...and WHAM, blinders are on, they dont use the manual, and look like idiots.

Every year, this is how the gimmick match round goes. Everyone seems like they have a decent brain, a decent handle on things....then we get to the gimmick round, and WHAM, blinders are on, THIS IS JUST A FANTASY WRESTLING TOTALLY KAYFABE TOURNAMENT.

What the fuck happened to the other factors, such as overall quality, contributions to the wrestling indurstry, overall drawing, legacy? You know, the things we vote on all the rest of the fucking tournament?

DERP DAWG COLLAH MATCH, VADER IS A STIFF WORKING HACK UNPROFESSIONAL BULLY WHO INJURES PEOPLE, HE IS DAH WINNAH

How about Steve Austin being in the top three pro wrestlers of all time? How about the fact that besides a gimmick match that may *slightly* favor Vader, doesnt change the fact that Steve Austins ability, carreer, and legacy utterly dwarf Vader's in every shape form and fashion imagineable?

Take your blinders off, this ISNT a fucking Kayfabe fantasy booking only tournament.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

with a streak of brutality that is almost unmatched.

Fancy way of saying "unprofessional hack, bully, who hurt people on purpose, but literally cried when Shawn Micheals threated to get him fired when he clearly and obviously fucked up a spot in the second biggest ppv of 1996"

 

[IrishCanadian25]

What the fuck happened to the other factors, such as overall quality, contributions to the wrestling indurstry, overall drawing, legacy? You know, the things we vote on all the rest of the fucking tournament?

You're right. Let's cancel the tournament from now on. Let's suck ALL Of the fun out of it. Let's just make a thread once per year and discuss only the top draws, regardless of the perception of their in ring performance. Let's have the Hogan / Austin / Sammartino / Rock / Goldberg / Cena / Gagne / Inoki thread every year and just stop with the tournament itself.

DERP DAWG COLLAH MATCH, VADER IS A STIFF WORKING HACK UNPROFESSIONAL BULLY WHO INJURES PEOPLE, HE IS DAH WINNAH

Part of the tournament. As opposed to <in best nerd voice> "Um, ok, so let's take a look at the coefficients of the impact of the merchandise sales multiplied by the sell outs and compare them to the TV ratings, and only then will we know who the winner should be. snort.

How about Steve Austin being in the top three pro wrestlers of all time? How about the fact that besides a gimmick match that may *slightly* favor Vader, doesnt change the fact that Steve Austins ability, carreer, and legacy utterly dwarf Vader's in every shape form and fashion imagineable?

If that's how you choose to vote, that's on you. It undermines the entire concept of the tournament, and if you want to play that card, since this IS the international region, I'll gladly argue that Vader is a vastly more successful international success than Austin, who is a primarily North American name.

Take your blinders off, this ISNT a fucking Kayfabe fantasy booking only tournament.

Take your blinders off. Not all conversations have to end with who drew what. Stop insulting the members of this forum who want to enjoy a fantasy tournament and make an argument that has something OTHER to do with draw. You have your criteria, don't insult those of us who use a different criteria, thanks.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

You're right. Let's cancel the tournament from now on. Let's suck ALL Of the fun out of it.

If that's how you choose to vote, that's on you. It undermines the entire concept of the tournament, and if you want to play that card, since this IS the international region, I'll gladly argue that Vader is a vastly more successful international success than Austin, who is a primarily North American name.



Take your blinders off. Not all conversations have to end with who drew what. Stop insulting the members of this forum who want to enjoy a fantasy tournament and make an argument that has something OTHER to do with draw. You have your criteria, don't insult those of us who use a different criteria, thanks.

Huh, its funny that "because its fun" becomes a proper reasoning behind a vote when it benefits YOUR guy. Cwazzyyyy.

I never said all conversations begin and end with drawing power, but it certainley deserves to be an equal factor whenc onsidering all things.

it does not undermine the entire concept of the tournament. the torunament was founded on the premise I am talking about. Turning it into kayfabe fantasy hour when its convienent for who you want to win is what undermines the tournament.

Part of the tournament. As opposed to <in best nerd voice> "Um, ok, so let's take a look at the coefficients of the impact of the merchandise sales multiplied by the sell outs and compare them to the TV ratings, and only then will we know who the winner should be. snort.

So wait, its part of the tournament(you know, like I just said), or the entire reason to base your vote? Care to make up your mind which stance your taking here?

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Huh, its funny that "because its fun" becomes a proper reasoning behind a vote when it benefits YOUR guy. Cwazzyyyy.

I never said all conversations begin and end with drawing power, but it certainley deserves to be an equal factor whenc onsidering all things.

it does not undermine the entire concept of the tournament. the torunament was founded on the premise I am talking about. Turning it into kayfabe fantasy hour when its convienent for who you want to win is what undermines the tournament.

Wrong again. I am not voting for Vader because it's fun. I'm voting for Vader because I legitimately think he's the most talented and dominant Super Heavyweight in a profession often dominated by those larger than life, and I believe that he deserves his due as one of the best wrestlers of all time.

Do you want to know where else you're wrong? When you claim I don't consider drawing power. Why do you think Germany put Vader over Otto Wanz? Why do you think Japan put Vader over Antonio Inoki? Why do you think Mexico put Vader over Canek? Because he was one of the biggest international draws there was! And to boot, he was put over the likes of Sting here in the US on a consistent basis.

I'm not trying to argue for my boy Scott Norton here. I like Scott Norton and think he's criminally under rated, but I am also realistic. I back Vader the way I do because I believe he's an all time great, despite the moronic booking he got in the WWE.

Vader has an edge in this match in almost every conceivable way. He was a bigger international draw that Austin, and this is the international region. I'm happy to concede (which I did in my initial post) that Austin is more popular and was a bigger deal in North America, but Vader is still a 3-time former WCW World Champion who was a dominant force in North America in his own right! Kayfabe, Vader demolishes Austin.

I hope Vader eats your face on Friday. I'm handing him a print out of this debate.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Fancy way of saying "unprofessional hack, bully, who hurt people on purpose, but literally cried when Shawn Micheals threated to get him fired when he clearly and obviously fucked up a spot in the second biggest ppv of 1996"

I know I voted Vader, but this might be the most wonderful thing I've read here in this thread. Please confirm this as real.

I'll be honest with you. I went with Vader coz I really do think he has more experience in the International Region, His badassery and what not is secondary but the venue took it for me.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Why do you think Germany put Vader over Otto Wanz?

bigger international draw that Austin, and this is the international region.

Seriously, are you fucking drunk right now? Do you think these arguments are helping your cause? Bigger international draw than the highest drawing star in the history of professional wrestling?


Sure, he was such a powerhouse in North America, what with those legendary high drawing feuds with Ron Simmons and the like for the mega fail bleeding dollars WCW. Totally.

Should have just stuck with your (still flimsy, but at least slightly true) kayfabe match advantage.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I know I voted Vader, but this might be the most wonderful thing I've read here in this thread. Please confirm this as real.

It is. Jim Cornette, talks about it in detail in one of his shoot videos, and you can clearly see the spot he is reffering to if you watch the ME of SummerSlam 96.

People call him "brutal" and "vicous" because he was an unprofessional bully who took liberties with guys who trusted him with their health and well being.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

It is. Jim Cornette, talks about it in detail in one of his shoot videos, and you can clearly see the spot he is reffering to if you watch the ME of SummerSlam 96.

People call him "brutal" and "vicous" because he was an unprofessional bully who took liberties with guys who trusted him with their health and well being.

Hey man I've called The Rock a piece of shit when he hit Foley 21 times when he said he would hit him like '7 times' before the match.

So, when I saw Vader pummel Foley's face with those forearm shots, I fucking hated him. And the fact of the matter is Foley's made more careers than Pat Patterson's fetish for black dicks. The Orndoff story put a smile on my face...say what you want about his political connection backstage, Vader got his ass whooped. Warrior stood upto Bill Watts, who was the promoter for fucks' sake.


IN short, I.Don't.Like.Vader. I loved it when Shawn beat him. But, BUT, the odds are stacked just too high. And since it is the region you gotta give it to Vader. The stip also kinda favours Vader, as he is known to have downright, blood n' gut brutal matches. I fuckin hate it, but its Vader here.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Seriously, are you fucking drunk right now?

I can't drink at work, and you know this.

Do you think these arguments are helping your cause? Bigger international draw than the highest drawing star in the history of professional wrestling?

One of the biggest in North American Pro Wrestling history. You tell me to take my blinders off and yet you seem to be settling on the ethnocentric "Austin was a bigger draw in North America so we should vote for him in the tournament." Again - why even have the tournament if that's your only argument?

Sure, he was such a powerhouse in North America, what with those legendary high drawing feuds with Ron Simmons and the like for the mega fail bleeding dollars WCW. Totally.

Vader wasn't at fault for WCW's mismanagement. You can burn Hulk Hogan and Goldberg on the same stake for 2000-2001 WCW, and burn Bret Hart on BOTH stakes for WWF in 1993-1996 and WCW in 2000, BTW.

Should have just stuck with your (still flimsy, but at least slightly true) kayfabe match advantage.

I like how you call it flimsy with no back up. It's hardly flimsy. It's rock solid. Let's break your neck and then attach a 10 foot chain and a 450-lb man to that same neck and see how confident YOU are.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

One of the biggest in North American Pro Wrestling history. You tell me to take my blinders off and yet you seem to be settling on the ethnocentric "Austin was a bigger draw in North America so we should vote for him in the tournament." Again - why even have the tournament if that's your only argument?


Vader wasn't at fault for WCW's mismanagement. You can burn Hulk Hogan and Goldberg on the same stake for 2000-2001 WCW, and burn Bret Hart on BOTH stakes for WWF in 1993-1996 and WCW in 2000, BTW.


I like how you call it flimsy with no back up. It's hardly flimsy. It's rock solid. Let's break your neck and then attach a 10 foot chain and a 450-lb man to that same neck and see how confident YOU are.

It isnt my only argument. Up until this point, when your shaky foundation was made to seem foolish, the "match advantage" was YOUR only argument. There are many factors. I am presenting that any slight match advantage Vader may have doesnt outweigh the overwelming drawing and overall carreer advantage that Austin holds. It isnt a complex argument, really. Try to keep up, pal.

So then you admit the company was bleeding dollars during the same period you just trotted out to make the claim he was a "powerhouse draw"....Once again, I invite you to make up your mind what you mean. Pick any time period you like, Steve Austin drew more in a YEAR than Vader did in his entire carreer. Also, the difference between Vader and those others you named, (as any moron could figure out) is that they, at other points outside of awful booking, were capable of drawing so much as a fucking buffalo head nickel. Unlike Vader.

Feel free to come down here and break my neck, and we can try it out. My confidence will remain the same, as im sure Steve Austins would. Note he wrestled at WM 19 less than 24 hours after having a minor heart attack and almost dying.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

It isnt my only argument. Up until this point, when your shaky foundation was made to seem foolish, the "match advantage" was YOUR only argument. There are many factors. I am presenting that any slight match advantage Vader may have doesnt outweigh the overwelming drawing and overall carreer advantage that Austin holds. It isnt a complex argument, really. Try to keep up, pal.

So then you admit the company was bleeding dollars during the same period you just trotted out to make the claim he was a "powerhouse draw"....Once again, I invite you to make up your mind what you mean. Pick any time period you like, Steve Austin drew more in a YEAR than Vader did in his entire carreer. Also, the difference between Vader and those others you named, (as any moron could figure out) is that they, at other points outside of awful booking, were capable of drawing so much as a fucking buffalo head nickel. Unlike Vader.

Feel free to come down here and break my neck, and we can try it out. My confidence will remain the same, as im sure Steve Austins would. Note he wrestled at WM 19 less than 24 hours after having a minor heart attack and almost dying.

Getting a little tired of having you put words in my mouth that were never there.

The "match advantage" was never my only argument. I'd make a case for Vader in any match. I have a stronger case in a stip match like this.

Vader's stip advantage isn't slight, and since I prefer to take the Kayfabe approach to this tournament, Austin's drawing power in the US doesn't really impress me much. Furthermore, since this is the international region, Austin's drawing power in the US matters less to me. I have now THREE TIMES conceded that Austin is the greater US draw, and I would never change that tune.

I explained that Vader was a powerhouse draw internationally and a strong draw in the US. He didn't have a ton to work with in WCW in the early 90's besides Sting, the most popular guy on their roster, and he still went over Sting more often than not. When Hogan broke in to WCW, Vader matched up very well with him and has the distinction of being the only man to kick out of the Hogan leg drop at a one count.

PRO WRESTLING drew more during Austin's time, and it wasn't just because of Austin. PRO WRESTLING drew less during the early and mid 90's and it wasn't just because of Vader. The product over all missed the mark with American audiences, but for what it was, Vader was one of the best. When wrestling went with an edgier product in the late 90's the scene exploded. Austin had a lot to do with it, but he wasn't the whole equation. Hogan and nWo started that, Austin rode the wave to new heights. No question about ANY of that, nor have I ever denied it.

Out of curiosity, why do you give the other guys I named the pass for "awful booking" but Vader is just deficient in your eyes? How does that make anyone OTHER than you, a moron? I'm genuinely curious. And how come Austin wasn't booked over international stars in their home countries the way Vader was? You keep saying Vader was an awful draw, but his reputation on the international circuit begs to differ.

I have to go to a work function - to be continued. In the mean time, folks, keep voting Vader.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses

Good, glad we could get down to you admitting that Austin's drawing power and overall carreer absolutely dwarfs Vaders in every way. The reason the other guys got a pass, like I already quite plainly wrote, is because their diminished drawing power were simple rough spots in their carreers/the wrestling world/booking, and they were giant draws for the majority of their time on top, or elsewere in their carreer, wereas the minimal drawing power of Vader was the entirety of his carreer. You call me a moron, but apparently im the one of the two of us who can read.

He went over in the international scene because he was a huge american who worked stiff (see, unprofessional) or shall we revisit the same sorts of arguments that sqaushed Stan Hansen in earlier rounds of the torunament? Not to mention the fact that the time in which these bookings took place were a different world than the wrestling world dominated by Steve Austin later. The WWE wasnt exaclty loaning him out to work matinees with All-Inoki-eggdome-supersport-pro in 1998.

 

[Tastycles]

It's a shame that it bothers you so much that Vader gets his fair due on these forums.

Are you fucking joking? A fat guy who was over in Japan and over in the US for less than 6 months is about to beat Stone Cold Steve Austin. Fair due indeed!

Vader was alright. His presence in the top 32 wrestlers of all time, which is what this round represents don't forget, is a stretch but I can just about buy it. Had he not faced one of the best wrestlers of the last 15 years in the previous round, I'd probably voted him to get here. The fact you got him to the top 4 once is testament to your ability to post well, but it doesn't make it any less ludicrous.

Voters, ask yourself a simple question, who is more worthy of a place in the last 16 of a best of all time wrestling tournament? Vader or Stone Cold Steve Austin?

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Always a funny time of year when IC25 gets half the forums drinking his Vader juice when Vader goes up against a legitimate top draw in the history of wrestling.

With the exception of a year long NJPW title reign in 1989, Vader was a transitional champion, at best, being booked as the monster that helped the good guy get over more. Guys like Steve Austin.

Steve Austin made a career of getting over against overwhelming odds. In 98 he won the Royal Rumble despite having the entire locker room against him. He beat Shawn Michaels for the WWF Title with Mike Tyson, a then DX member, serving as the guest enforcer. After being completely screwed by Vince and subsequently being fired, he was able to beat The Undertaker in a Buried Alive match, find a loophole after being screwed by Vince AGAIN in order to get into the main event of Wrestlemania and win for the second year in a row, despite the boss of the company being completely against him.

Aside from being the most successful draw in the history of the business, Stone Cold made a career out of getting over against obstacles like Vader, and Vader, likewise, made a career out of making guys like Stone Cold Steve Austin more popular.

Don't drink the IC25 Vader Juice. Vote Austin.

 

[Shocky]

Steve Austin always overcomes the odds, is that the general consensus the pro Austin card is trying to play?

We can always start with him losing in a strap match, essentially what this match is, to Savio Vega. This wasn't the Ringmaster, this was Stone Cold Steve Austin, one month removed from his King of the Ring. No, he wasn't the Stone Cold, but he still lost to Savio Vega in a strap match, Savio Vega. All the while Vader has a Strap Match victory over Sting, who was the biggest babyface of WCW at the time. Advantage Vader.

Stone Cold overcomes the odds.
Wrestlemania 14: He overcomes the odds by having the referee in his back pocket, bravo.
King of the Ring 98: He lost a first blood match to Kane.
Breakdown 98: He lost a triple threat match to the Undertaker and Kane.
Royal Rumble 99: He lost the Royal Rumble match to Vince Fucking McMahon.

So there are examples of Austin overcoming the odds, but Steve Austin isn't fucking Super Cena. The man loses, and lost quite often when the odds were stacked against him.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Vader went over Canek (a guy so big he has wins over Thesz, Hogan and Andre) in his home country of Mexico. Why wouldn't he go over a redneck Texan (no matter how big a deal he is the good ole US of A)? The stip suits Vader because he can target Austin's neck in a way that has never been done before. The venue suits Vader because he has a history of going over the best here. The region suits Vader because he was an international star the old fashioned way - by winning matches all over the world against local champions. The deck is stacked against Austin here but not in a feel good way - Vader could and should go over here.

IT'S TIME... IT'S TIME... IT'S... well y'all know the rest.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Are you fucking joking? A fat guy who was over in Japan and over in the US for less than 6 months is about to beat Stone Cold Steve Austin. Fair due indeed!

Vader was over for years in the US.

And It didn't take you long to devolve into the "fat guy" argument. Because wrestling fans hate fat people, right? Don't be a bully, Tasty, be a star.

Voters, ask yourself a simple question, who is more worthy of a place in the last 16 of a best of all time wrestling tournament? Vader or Stone Cold Steve Austin?

And then ask yourself - if we're only concerned with who the 16 best wrestlers in the world are, why to we hold a 128 man tournament every year? Why not scrap the tournament, pick the 8 biggest draws, and have the same boring, variable-less discussion year in, year out?

The matches, the stipulations - that's what makes the WZ Tournament such a big event. That's also why we've had a variety of winners.

With the exception of a year long NJPW title reign in 1989, Vader was a transitional champion, at best, being booked as the monster that helped the good guy get over more. Guys like Steve Austin.

So no more heels in the tournament. Faces only.

No shit the heels exist to help the good guys get over. It's sort of the reason for the heels in the first place, and the entire basis of professional wrestling. Heels still win, though. Owen Hart won King of the Ring as a heel. So did Harley Race, Vader's manager. (Have I mentioned yet that one of the great minds of all time in wrestling is Vader's manager?)

Don't drink the Haterade. Drink the Vaderade.

 

[Big Sexy]

I don't care if this was a "who looks better in a red mask" match, Steve Austin would win. Vader was on top of WCW during it's absolute lowest point (yes even lower then 2000-2001). When he was champion he feuded with the likes of Ron Simmons, Cactus Jack, Davey Boy Smith, and Sting. While he won all of those feuds he also lost to almost all of those guys including multiple times to Sting. And for those who think early 90's blonde Sting was Sting at his best, you are delusional. It would have been a perfect time to have Sting carry the company but instead he just had a couple short, uneventful reigns. In fact Sting successfully defended the WCW title a total of ZERO times on PPV during that period. Once Flair came back Vader dropped the title to him shortly after. Vader was never able to defeat Flair one on one and was never able to defeat Hogan either. Once the big names were around he eventually dropped to the upper mid card.

Now onto Austin. He along with The Rock and Hulk Hogan are the 3 biggest names/draws the wrestling world has seen. Austin led the charge that brought the WWE from near collapse to the winner of the Monday Night Wars. He was constantly put in no win situations and the majority of the time he still came out on top.

Obviously a dog collar match wasn't the best draw for Austin but he would still find a way to win. Because of the stipulation the match becomes closer but it in no way gives Vader the victory. He just isn't in Austin's league.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Steve Austin always overcomes the odds, is that the general consensus the pro Austin card is trying to play?

We can always start with him losing in a strap match, essentially what this match is, to Savio Vega. This wasn't the Ringmaster, this was Stone Cold Steve Austin, one month removed from his King of the Ring. No, he wasn't the Stone Cold, but he still lost to Savio Vega in a strap match, Savio Vega. All the while Vader has a Strap Match victory over Sting, who was the biggest babyface of WCW at the time. Advantage Vader.

Stone Cold overcomes the odds.
Wrestlemania 14: He overcomes the odds by having the referee in his back pocket, bravo.
King of the Ring 98: He lost a first blood match to Kane.
Breakdown 98: He lost a triple threat match to the Undertaker and Kane.
Royal Rumble 99: He lost the Royal Rumble match to Vince Fucking McMahon.

So there are examples of Austin overcoming the odds, but Steve Austin isn't fucking Super Cena. The man loses, and lost quite often when the odds were stacked against him.

You're comparing Sting in WCW in like...1994...to 98-99 Austin in terms of overness as a babyface???

Ok sweet. So, Vader beat Sting in a strap match...a match that is somewhat similar to a dog collar match...thus making Vader an automatic favorite to beat Steve Austin in a similar gimmick match. This is like the argument every year that whoever won the BCS National Championship game in NCAA Football could probably beat whoever has the worst record in the NFL...except...you're taking it to a much higher level...that whoever wins the BCS game could beat the Super Bowl Champion. Steve Austin in 98-99 was so many leaps and bounds ahead of Sting in 94 in terms of babyface heat that there isn't enough room on the calculator to crunch the numbers.

Ok. He lost to Kane in a first blood match. That Undertaker interfered in...and in which Kane had 1% of his skin showing. So...he didn't win. Mmmmm. But he did win it back the following night and then went on to beat Undie at Summerslam at the big payoff event. So...Austin wins in the grand scheme of things.

Austin always finds his way in the payoff matches and wins in the payoff matches. So, in terms of booking...you don't book Austin to lose to a C-level wrestler in the 3rd round of your big payoff tournament. I'm sure that someone will bring up Deadly Game and that he lost to a midcard-Mankind at the time, but that wasn't the big payoff. Austin won that big payoff.

Austin wins big payoffs. The Vaders of the world help the Austins get there. Austin gets booked to win here, period.


And IC...how many notorious heels have won the WZ Tournament? What's the percentage of heels that win in the main-event at Wrestlemania? Ah, that's right. This is an industry where, eventually, the good guy wins the day. With Austin...you have THE BIGGEST GOOD GUY EVER. He doesn't lose to a role player like Vader.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

And once again, Steamboat Ricky is committing the cardinal sins of the WZ Tournament.

1. He's overvaluing the WWE. Top guy in the WWE must translate into automatic victor.

2. He's focusing solely on booking, which defeats the purpose of the tournament. To that, I remind you that in the International Region, the WWE booking HAS NO FUCKING RELEVANCE. Vince isn't booking this tournament or this match. It's international, which means it's Vader's wheelhouse. How are you not getting this? Do you even READ my posts, or just post out your own ass?

3. Overvaluing faces / /popularity. Austin was popular, so he wins a kayfabe tournament automatically? This isn't a "favorite wrestler" tournament, despite how badly you want it to be.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

This isn't a "favorite wrestler" tournament, despite how badly you want it to be.

The utter grandeur of YOU posting THIS in spite of overwelming evidence that Vader isnt even in the same class as Austin in numerous components that someone should consider when voting in this tournament is fucking delicous. Hilarious. I no longer need to eat dinner, nor watch any tv for the rest of the night.