Eric Young being "shit" is your opinion but it doesn't stop the fact that he's been elevated.
James Storm
Robert Roode
Doug Williams
Brutus Magnuz
Hernandez
Eric Young
Matt Morgan
AJ Styles
D'Angelo Dinero
Suicide
The WWE & TNA Double Standard Is Now Clear!
- Thread starter TellMeWhy
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Eric Young being "shit" is your opinion but it doesn't stop the fact that he's been elevated.
James Storm
Robert Roode
Doug Williams
Brutus Magnuz
Hernandez
Eric Young
Matt Morgan
AJ Styles
D'Angelo Dinero
Suicide
It's more noticeable in TNA because WWE's vets are better. Undertaker, HHH and HBK have more in the tank than Steiner, Jarrett, and Foley. Cena and Orton have way more in the tank than Angle and Sting. Jericho, Show, BAtista and Mysterio have more in the tank than Booker, Steiner and the Dudleys. (Although I want to keep giving credit to the Dudleys/3D for building up their division).
In 2003, John Cena was a hot young rookie in WWE and AJ Styles was a hot young rookie in TNA. Today, Cena has a wall full of world title belts and is the biggest star in wrestling, while AJ Styles fans are overjoyed that he's finally back in the main event.
In 2003, John Cena was a hot young rookie in WWE and AJ Styles was a hot young rookie in TNA. Today, Cena has a wall full of world title belts and is the biggest star in wrestling, while AJ Styles fans are overjoyed that he's finally back in the main event.
Wait a minute... WHAT?!?!? Let's break these down one by one...
Nash and Steiner are healthier than HBK, Taker, and HHH??? HBK is still performing at a level that pisses all over Nash and Steiner put together. He just put on a phenomenal match with the Undertaker 6 months ago. Did you happen to miss that because you were too busy jacking it to Cody Deaner?
HBK's back has been in good shape as of late. Sure, it was badly injured before. But with his lighter schedule, he's still able to perform on levels that trample some of TNA's top stars. I bet if he was in a match with AJ Styles they'd put on a five-star classic, and not because AJ would carry it. Speaking of lighter schedule, TNA guys wrestle ONCE, maybe TWICE a week. HBK's lighter schedule is still heavier than 1/2 of the TNA roster's. Steiner has been reported on numerous occasions to have trouble lacing up his boots before his matches. And you say he's in better shape than Triple H, who's still headlining PPV's inside of a Hell in a Cell? Whatever you're smoking, I'd like some.
And where did you hear that HHH's knees are torn up? Why, because they're taped? That's because he's torn both quads in the past and he's been cautionary. Seriously, you need to get out of the dream world.
Joe and Daniels haven't done jack shit in the past year. Joe is moving slower than ever, he's getter fatter than ever, and his gimmick is more stale than a 2 year old piece of bread. Daniels hasn't been in anything meaningful since his comeback.
Hernandez is just a big waste. He's Dixie Carter's version of John Cena. Why, because he's a big Mexican? He's slow in the ring, has horrific mic skills, and he's not over with the crowds.
Roode is stuck in tag team land and I agree that he's talented as hell. But he's wasted talent if they continue to keep him in Beer Money.
Morgan is absolute shit. His promos are over the top and his in-ring work is sloppy. Sure, he's big... but that's it. Big doesn't equal good.
AJ Styles is the ONLY diamond that TNA has. And at the rate TNA is going at, I wouldn't be surprised to see AJ make a jump in the next 2-3 years now that he's finally won the TNA title. It's time for him to take the next step in his career. He'll be in the WWE in no time.
I'll give you Storm, Roode, Morgan, Hernandez and Young. Styles is a TNA original, so you can't count him. Williams and Magnus are shit so far being carried by Young. Dinero is a WWE reject (or I guess you forgot the Elijah Burke Experience already). And don't get me started with Suicide.
PhenomAJJones
Dark Match Winner
WWE didn't know what to do with Elijah Burke. IF you wanna look at it Everyone is a reject cause they are not with the orginal company that brought them into wrestling. IF you gonna use the word Reject use it correctly.
The D-Man said:
A clean win makes a big difference because that's what Punk needed. Everytime CM PUnk has held the world title, he's been made to look like a joke. How can anyone take him serious. How many times has this guy been on a losing spree with a world title around his waist?
The D-Man said:
It's also funny how DX has never put anyone over until Summerslam and then goes right back to going over their opponents. And lol at talking about the last 2 years. You must have forgot that Kurt Angle put over AJ Styles cleanly about 3 times last year, you must have forgot that Joe won the world title last year, and you must have not realized that TNA also gave someone like Christian a shot with the world title a year prior. Nice try but try again.
The D-Man said:
Exactly and them doing that boosted the ratings from about 400,000-700,000 viewers. What's HHH's excuse for constantly main eventing and squashing Randy Orton, lord knows how many times?
The D-Man said:
Lol at Swagger being elevated. He hasn't done jack since he was drafted from ECW to RAW so remove him. MVP hasn't done anything noteworthy on his draft from Smackdown to Raw either so he's been devalued. Cody Rhodes & Dibiase were only pushed 10 minutes ago as you'd say.
AJ Styles was main event in the past and uppermidcard for quite some time, so yes, he's been re-elevated. And besides Morgan and EY, Hernandez, Doug Williams, Brutus Magnus, James Storm, Robert Roode, Suicide, Dinero have all been pushed. That's 4 more guys than your precious WWE has pushed with only 2 hours of tv.
Hmm, they didn't know what to do with Elijah Burke. SO THEY RELEASED HIM. If that's not a REJECT, I don't know what is.
PhenomAJJones
Dark Match Winner
So basically every wrestler in any organization is a reject cause the original companies the came into business with had nothing to do with them so they are rejects? IF you gonna use the word then use it correctly.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
How have James Storm and Robert Roode been pushed? They have been in the same position for over a year and keep facing shittier and shittier tag teams. At least Jerishow has made Mark Henry and MVP look like a formidable tag team. Samoa Joe and Daniels haven't been good since 2005 and Suicide and Dinero are going to keep having a nothing feud until Joe loses the X-Division title.
So what you're trying to say is that veterans, no matter what the circumstance, will be looked at as being too overpowering unless they never win matches against young talent ever again. Gee, that that makes them look strong.
But TNA's ratings are still in the toilet. And when was the last time HHH squashed Randy Orton?? Orton's been the champion on and off for close to a year and has been feuding with Cena.
Lol at Swagger being elevated. He hasn't done jack since he was drafted from ECW to RAW so remove him. MVP hasn't done anything noteworthy on his draft from Smackdown to Raw either so he's been devalued. Cody Rhodes & Dibiase were only pushed 10 minutes ago as you'd say.
Swagger was ECW champion, which is basically the Legends title without that piss being sprayed all over it. And now he's in the US Title picture.
MVP is on the cusp of being main event but he's having trouble getting over with the crowd. The WWE is putting him in the right place but he's dropping the ball.
Cody and DiBiase have been getting pushed by being in a stable with Orton since well over a year ago. Just because they're not pushed by the internet smark-standard of ALWAYS defeating veterans doesn't mean they haven't been getting primed for a huge elevation. You don't always have to win matches to get a rub or a push... TNA, on the other hand, has their veterans beat their midcard talent, and they are never to be heard from in that title picture again. Legacy has been in top feuds since a while back.
SUICIDE HAS BEEN PUSHED??!? Pushed where?!? He's the biggest joke on the TNA roster besides Cody Deaner!
Morgan's in the ME picture, but that just happened recently.
Eric Young is the same as Morgan.
Hernandez is TNA's version of MVP. He's being pushed and is dropping the ball because he has no personality.
Doug Williams and Magnus have been reported on a regular basis to be absolute shit. And that's because they are.
Dinero?? You mean The Elijah-failure?? He's had about 4 matches with TNA. What push are you talking about?!?
But, but, but--Punk didn't win in any meaningful sense. He tapped out to the Hell's Gate. Then there was a BS restart. Then Teddy Long called for the bell and pretended that Undertaker tapped out.
How does that count as a win for Punk, credibility wise? In six months, will Punk be able to cut a promo on the Undertaker built on that "victory"? No. If you're scoring the feud, Punk is 0-1-1 against Undertaker in PPVs.
Change "defended" to "barely escaped with" and I think you've got it.
Point 2, D-Man, you're exaggerating the number of people WWE have elevated. List should read Jeff HArdy, CM Punk, Morrison, Legacy...and we're done. "Potential US/IC Champion" doesn't count as "elevating" in my book. Of course, TNA's list reads AJ Styles, Matt Morgan and MAYBE Hernandez. And that's with TNA on a huge youth movement kick.
If you want to know, my standard for "elevated" is, could they put this guy in a main event title match and have it taken seriously? This Friday, SD could do a battle royale, have Morrison or Punk win and fight Undertaker for the title next week and Morrison or Punk would look like a serious threat. Ziggler would be kind of out-of-nowhere and the reaction would be Huh? On Raw, Rhodes or Dibiase (or maybe MVP) could win that battle royale with credibility. It would be an upset, but not a complete shock. Kofi, Swagger, Miz wouldn't be credible next week.
Similarly, an Eric Young title shot on Impact this week would be weak. A Matt Morgan or Hernandez shot wouldn't be.
PhenomAJJones
Dark Match Winner
It is funn that WWE fans look at WWE as they can do no wrong but if a person like TNA then they are doing wrong? That is stupid.
johnbragg said:
It's arguable that WWE vets have more in the tank than the vets in TNA but guys like Sting, Booker, 3D, and Angle still have plenty in the tank and plenty to offer as well and can put on a good show if they want to but as soon as they get the chance, the iwc seems to want to crap on it just because of their age alone no matter how they perform when it's not like that in WWE. This is why I made the topic.
johnbragg said:
Yeah but the scenario is entirely different. Both companies had 2 different priorities Cena was in an established company like WWE looking for a new face to run the ship while AJ Styles was in a company that was trying to establish itself in terms of finding a tv deal, finding an identity and trying to grow a fanbase. TNA had lots of other things to focus on whereas Cena was the full focus and had time fully devoted to him to making him the star he is today.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
How do you get that CM Punk is 0-1-1 against the Undertaker in PPV's? Didn't the announcer say that Punk is the winner of the match at Breaking Point. There wasn't a draw or a no contest so Punk's record stands at 1-1.
Ah, yes. Another smark that feels as if a belt equals a true push. You don't have to be a champion to get a push, my friend. You need your character to be elvated to the point where you are in believable contention for a title shot, or a position above the one they're currently in. TNA's midcarders have been in the same spot for the past 2 years... licking the veterans feet.
Smart Mark
Dark Match Winner
This is basically the answer to the question, but there's more too it. The guys from wwe who tna are bringing in are established talents and for some even house hold names, they do not need to look better. The younger talents tna have who are trying to establish them selves(aj styles, chris danials) are essentially no bodys compared to the guys who came from out side tna(sting, angle) to basically save ratings because those younger talents weren't bringing in viewers. You can ask some one who doesn't watch pro wrestling who sting is and they will know he is a pro wrestler from the 90s, you ask some one who doesn't watch pro wrestling who aj styles is and they'll just shrug. These talents who are big names need to make the younger guys big names because when the big names retire(which isn't far off for a lot of them) these younger guys will be left and the show will collapse. WWE as a brand is established and people will watch it, tna needs to establish them selves as a brand and as an alternative to the wwe shows, its not going to do that by burring those who its future depends on.
They've been elevated because they're in a much better position and are much over as a team than they were a year prior. In addition, this was the year that Beer Money reached their height and got big wins that put them on another level.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
When the only teams you were facing were Team 3D and a past their prime LAX, then you are not on another level. How much better a position are they really in? If they were split up and were fighting for the Legends or TNA title then maybe I would agree. However, they are fighting less and worse tag teams so they are basically in the same spot.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
When the only teams you were facing were Team 3D and a past their prime LAX, then you are not on another level. How much better a position are they really in? If they were split up and were fighting for the Legends or TNA title then maybe I would agree. However, they are fighting less and worse tag teams so they are basically in the same spot.
PhenomAJJones
Dark Match Winner
What teams are MVP & Mark Henry and Hart Dynasty facing? Lets be honest on Smackdown the only tag teams are the Hart Dynasty & Cryme Tyme.
On Raw you have MVP & Mark Henry, Legacy(who will probably be breaking up soon) DX who will probably split soon as well. Big Show/Jericho? What tag teams are left on WWE?
On Raw you have MVP & Mark Henry, Legacy(who will probably be breaking up soon) DX who will probably split soon as well. Big Show/Jericho? What tag teams are left on WWE?
Sorry, but I have to disagree about Elijah Burke and Suicide. This has been a strong fued and their street fights at No Surrender and Impact were way better than anything that the WWE has put out there in months.
Burke may have not done anything with the WWE, but that doesn't mean he not talented. Sometimes it just takes the right gimmick.
You really have no argument here. There was a lot of complaining and anger in the Hell in a LD thread, maybe you should go read it. The WWE isn't getting "overlooked" or anything, it is quite the opposite.
I understand where you are coming from, a lot of people say "tnaz suxz nuff said" even if they haven't seen the product. However, TNA does deserve some of the criticism it gets. It isn't immune to anger from the fans, especially on a discussion forum.
People hate the WWE and People hate TNA. They will both always be criticized plenty and even praised every now and then when they do a good job. Not point in complaining about anything here, as you really have not argument.
I understand where you are coming from, a lot of people say "tnaz suxz nuff said" even if they haven't seen the product. However, TNA does deserve some of the criticism it gets. It isn't immune to anger from the fans, especially on a discussion forum.
People hate the WWE and People hate TNA. They will both always be criticized plenty and even praised every now and then when they do a good job. Not point in complaining about anything here, as you really have not argument.
The D-Man said:
I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't say anything.
The D-Man said:
Their ratings have gone down because it's football season and it's Fall and there is a heavy tv lineup on Thursday Nights. WWE's ratings have slipped the same way. The point is that MEM brought in a new viewership which was enough of a reason for them to be featured so heavily on the show unlike HHH who continuously feuded with Orton for the hell of it and did nothing for Raw or the viewers. HHH has beaten Orton so many times that I've lost count. You should know though. You're WWE's lawyer.
The D-Man said:
And that was what, 10 minutes ago?
It doesn't stop the fact that he's gone down since he's been on RAW. That's not what you call elevation.The D-Man said:
Lol at MVP being on the cusp of main event when he's in a tag team with Mark Henry feuding for the tag titles. And you're excuses for the WWE as to why he's not on top is hilarious. Nice try lawyer.
Why don't you give examples of this then because I have no idea what you're talking about pal?
The D-Man said:
no jokes are Hornswoggle and Santino. Suicide is a great wrestler and puts on great matches. Just because he wears a mask and a suit doesn't qualify as joke. Sorry.
The D-Man said:
And they're both the same as Legacy, who u seem to vouch for. What's your point?
The D-Man said:
No he's not dropping anything. They're taking there time with him and not trying to shove him down our throats too much. And lol at making excuses for WWE's lack of direction and trying to pass the blame on MVP. Nice one.
The D-Man said:
Well there matches and there crowd reaction show otherwise, so try again.
The D-Man said:
Ooooh Dinero was in WWE? Oooh big deal! I guess that makes him unworthy since he's no longer with them right? Nevermind the fact that the company he worked for didn't have enough of a vision to realize that he was gold. I like your game of blame the wrestler instead of blaming the idiot writers in the back with the lack of foresight and the lack of eye to see a star. Dinero is being used the way WWE should have been using him and his feud with Suicide has got him very over.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
So WWE should have been using him by letting him feud with a character that is absolutely going nowhere? At least when he was in the WWE, Burke one was one of the main attractions. A feud with Suicide is hardly anything better.
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