The WWE & TNA Double Standard Is Now Clear!

[TellMeWhy]

So WWE should have been using him by letting him feud with a character that is absolutely going nowhere? At least when he was in the WWE, Burke one was one of the main attractions. A feud with Suicide is hardly anything better.

Main attraction of what. He was the face of ECW but at the same time jobbing to CM Punk on a weekly basis and then they faded him into obscurity and then released him when they realized they weren't smart enough to find a direction for him.

And talk as much crap as you want about Suicide but he was one of the best booked X-division champs as of recent and the feud with Dinero has been good for Dinero.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Main attraction of what. He was the face of ECW but at the same time jobbing to CM Punk on a weekly basis and then they faded him into obscurity and then released him when they realized they weren't smart enough to find a direction for him.

And talk as much crap as you want about Suicide but he was one of the best booked X-division champs as of recent and the feud with Dinero has been good for Dinero.

At least he was the face of something. The New Breed vs. Originals was a good angle and they released him after they realized that he absolutely sucks. As low as the X-Division title has been booked, Suicide being one of the best booked isn't exactly outstanding. All I remember from Suicide is a forgettable Ultimate X match and that was it.

 

[johnbragg]

...but guys like Sting, Booker, 3D, and Angle still have plenty in the tank and plenty to offer as well and can put on a good show if they want to...

But for how much longer? I lined up who I lined up for a reason. Angle and Sting are TNA's two biggest stars. So I contrasted them with Cena and Orton, probably WWE's 2 biggest stars. Cena and Orton each have ten years left, easy. Meanwhile Sting is starting a retirement tour and Angle's health problems mean his time is limited.

Booker has more left than any of TNA's old men except for Angle, but 44 is 44.

Yeah but the scenario is entirely different. Both companies had 2 different priorities Cena was in an established company like WWE looking for a new face to run the ship while AJ Styles was in a company that was trying to establish itself in terms of finding a tv deal, finding an identity and trying to grow a fanbase. TNA had lots of other things to focus on whereas Cena was the full focus and had time fully devoted to him to making him the star he is today.

Exactly. TNA chose to build on the name value of WCW retreads and then WWF retreads, rather than trying to build and sell the new young talent they had. So now, with their veterans pretty much used up, they're scrambling to create new stars before Angle's next neck surgery. Creating new stars is how they should have built the company. They had the X division. They had Samoa Joe. They had the opportunity for WWE midcarders to jump and take a shot at World Championship glory. But they pushed Jarrett and his WCW buddies instead.

Meanwhile, WWE brought Cena (and others) along slowly, and now he's their biggest star. And not just Cena--half of WWE's main event scene was nowhere near main events five or six years ago. Batista, Cena, Orton, Edge, Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Mysterio--none of these guys were world champions or close to it in, say, 2004. Some were known, some had had success, but none were established world champions the way they are now.

 

[PhenomAJJones]

Wasn't it reported that Vince McMahon himself was screaming backtage at Raw asking why couldn't they create new stars?

 

[People's Champ]

This has turned into something bigger than what it is. The OP made a claim that WWE fans don't complain about newer talent not coming around yet do about TNA. However its clear that its a problem tht has been voiced by fans a lot. More than really needs be but its there. So the overall answer here is that there is no double standard. That should not get lost in all of this. The claim of a double standard is just stupid. Plain and simple. Fans have complained about it. So get over it TNA lovers. If this now is turning into a discussions of who has developed newer talent the most ok then. Just remember that the OP's claim is clearly wrong.

 

[jrocc4dub]

Taker, HHH, HBK, Jericho, are all a lot better than Nash, Angle, Steiner, and Booker. That's all there is to it. There's no double standard. Matter of fact, there's constant bitching about the WWE guys not putting over younger talent. It's really simple, besides Angle, the over 40 crowd in TNA sucks. The "old" guys in WWE are still able to have top notch matches. Think a bit before you start typing bullshit.

 

[Nyghtmaire]

Take Vince Russo's junk out of your mouth and realize what you're saying...

#1 - You should rewind your clock to three weeks ago when those same guys LOST to their opponents from last night. Punk defeated the Undertaker in a fucking submission match and Legacy defeated Degeneration X CLEAN in a Falls Count Anywhere match.

#2 - Look who the veterans were facing... DX vs Legacy (new generation superstars), Undertaker vs. CM Punk (new generation superstar). Now, let's look at TNA... Nash vs. Foley, MEM consisting of old veterans... oh, and Samoa Joe.

#3 - Microphone time on TNA is constantly swallowed up by either the Main Event Mafia, Mick Foley, or... well... the Main Event Mafia!! In the WWE, CM Punk cuts at least one amazing promo every week, Legacy is always involved in backstage and in-ring promos, and less and less non-wrestling moments are occuring on the shows with the veterans of the product.

There is a HUUUGE difference in both products here. TNA is the epitome of not allowing their new talent to shine on a monthly basis. WWE gives their veterans a rub every few months, but that's only to keep them as formidable opponents for the new generation's stars to conquer.

Thank you for posting something intelligent. Whether you like TNA or WWE, or both like me, you should probably understand wrestling before shooting off your mouth. This reply was one of the most coherent and dare I say, correct, responses I have seen on these boards in quite a while. So once again, thank you!

 

[johnbragg]

I don't think we can say that Burke/Dinero sucks yet. Burke is a WWE Reject, and TNA does need WWE Rejects to survive--guys who have been through developmental, have been on TV, who know the basics but couldn't or at least didn't succeed. There's no real shame in that--Terra Ryzing didn't succeed, Deacon Batista didn't do much, John Cena was just another prospect until he dressed up as Vanilla Ice.

TNA needs to give opportunities to guys WWE Rejects. They won't break the bank, some of them will turn out to be dependable regulars, a few of them will turn out to be stars. But you don't really know until TNA gives them a program and sees what they can do with it.

That's different from a WWE/WCW Retread--someone who had some success in WWE (or WCW) but WWE decided they didn't need. TNA keeps bringing these guys in for their name value, not realizing that their name value is highly overrated, a one-time boost before things go back to what they were. TNA needs to look at WWE Retreads as either short-term special attractions, or really evaluate what he's going to do in TNA before they come at him with a big contract.

Who said anything about Bobby Lashley?

 

[Kanye South]

Okay, so last night I watched WWE's HIAC PPV and Undertaker and Punk opened up the show where Taker beat CM Punk clean in about 15 minutes for the title. Fans overlook it.

Well, maybe because in order to make a good feud, it shouldn't be one-sided. I liked how you ignored the fact that for basically the whole summer and for most of the fall, CM Punk was the fucking man. This guy has basically been built up as much as Edge, and you're complaining that he lost the title to advance one of the most interesting storylines of the year?

Second, you had DX take on Legacy. Why this match closed the show? I have no idea. Nothing spectacular happened for it to close the show whatever. Anyway DX pummels them in about the last 5-10 minutes of the match and DX closes the show as the victors. Fans overlook it.

Again, Legacy has been built up as a legitimate threat over the past few months. I can see no reason why DX shouldn't have one or two victories over Legacy. There's a difference between pushing a superstar and putting them in a league they don't belong in.

So basically, we have 2 scenarios where 3 old guys are opening and closing the show with wins over young talent.

Yeah, horrible booking. Instead of getting people to instantly watch by putting two main eventers at the start of the show, maybe we should've had Mike Knox and Hardy open the show, and have R-Truth and McIntyre main event!

At least Legacy was in the fucking main event. At the beginning of this year, they were Triple H's bitches. Now they're a legitimate threat to Shawn and Hunter.

Is this not a problem?

No.

If this was TNA, would they not be ripped apart for pulling something like this? This would be a very big deal because we'd hear the same rhetoric such as, "TNA is burying talent. TNA keeps pushing the old guys. TNA is burying their young talent for guys past their prime." Why is it that when this happens in WWE, it's looked at so lightly and isn't held up to the same standard as TNA?"

Because if Triple H, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Batista, and Jericho all retired, then we'd have Cena, Orton, Punk, Christian, and Edge to take over as main-eventers, not to mention the up-and-coming guys we have in the WWE.

If the old heads at TNA retired, we'd have AJ Styles, Joe and Hernandez to take over. There is really no comparison.

I mean come on, when Sting wins at BFG, people complain head & shoulders when that's his only big win of the year. Undertaker and HHH goes over lesser established guys from about 3-5 times a year and the same for HHH and it's okay Can you imagine the reaction if someone from the MEM defeated someone like AJ Styles for the world title in an opening match in 15 minutes for a world title at a TNA PPV? Can you imagine the outrage? People would sit there and say that there no longer going to watch TNA, etc.

Considering the fact that Styles and Joe are the only young guys to ever hold the title, it doesn't compare to the new stars being made in WWE. Triple H feuded with Orton over the title. It wasn't a one-sided battle like most of the World Title feuds in TNA are. CM Punk is feuding with Undertaker over the title. There's a difference between feuding, and one-sided, uninteresting, predictable fights.

WWE is clearly ran by veterans and guys in their 40s. HHH, HBK, Batista, Undertaker, Jericho, etc. No one complains. In TNA, the only vets that main event are Sting and Angle but yet TNA gets backlash for "pushing the old guys". What is up with this double standard with wrestling fans? Am I the only one that sees this?

.

Triple H hasn't had the title since Backlash. Shawn hasn't touched the fucking thing since forever, and if he's been in a title match, he's put someone over. Batista draws, and although he's boring as a dog taking a shit, he draws, so I would trust him in the main event moreso than John Morrison or Kofi Kingston. Undertaker? Running the WWE? This is the first time he's won a title in a long time. And Jericho hasn't been World Champion since last year.

TNA is entertaining, but it gets shit because everywhere you go, it's Angle this, Sting that, Nash here, Booker there, etc. I can see why they use these "old-timers", and I'm fine with it. I'd rather see TNA succeed with mostly veterans and some rookies, rather than all rookies and no vets. Then, they'd be like Ring Of Honor. I don't have a problem with TNA until delusional marks start saying that it's better than the WWE.

 

[TellMeWhy]

But for how much longer? I lined up who I lined up for a reason. Angle and Sting are TNA's two biggest stars. So I contrasted them with Cena and Orton, probably WWE's 2 biggest stars. Cena and Orton each have ten years left, easy. Meanwhile Sting is starting a retirement tour and Angle's health problems mean his time is limited.

Booker has more left than any of TNA's old men except for Angle, but 44 is 44.

Yeah but why are you asking how much longer only with TNA? How much longer does HBK, HHH, Taker, Batista, and all of those other guys have? You see the double standard here. You worry about how much longer the TNA vets have but you don't question how much longer the WWE vets have

In TNA, everyone understands why guys like Sting and Angle main event and win world titles. It's because they are established names in the business and want to see if any of those guys can attract casual fans and boost the product. What is WWE's excuse for pushing HHH for 10 years and pushing Undertaker for almost 20 years.

Exactly. TNA chose to build on the name value of WCW retreads and then WWF retreads, rather than trying to build and sell the new young talent they had. So now, with their veterans pretty much used up, they're scrambling to create new stars before Angle's next neck surgery. Creating new stars is how they should have built the company. They had the X division. They had Samoa Joe. They had the opportunity for WWE midcarders to jump and take a shot at World Championship glory. But they pushed Jarrett and his WCW buddies instead.

Meanwhile, WWE brought Cena (and others) along slowly, and now he's their biggest star. And not just Cena--half of WWE's main event scene was nowhere near main events five or six years ago. Batista, Cena, Orton, Edge, Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Mysterio--none of these guys were world champions or close to it in, say, 2004. Some were known, some had had success, but none were established world champions the way they are now.

Again, you're almost comparing apples and oranges. TNA had to keep a balance because they were a new product and wanted to have known faces as an attraction to possibly bring in more viewers. There's no crime in trying to get your business to succeed and trying to draw fans. Jeff Jarrett may not be the most popular guy on the IWC, but his face and name is somewhat of an attraction so it's understandable why a guy like him would carry a new company on it's infancy. All they did was infancy. If you have a new product and want to grow you're fanbase, are you going to pick Samoa Joe over Kurt Angle to headline your company? When Hogan came to WCW, they put him at the top because he was the biggest star and as a result, he drew in more fans. And you talk as if only veterans ran TNA. Chritian, Abyss, Rhino, Samoa Joe all got title runs while at the same time AJ Styles was being elevated in feuds with Angle and going over him clean.

 

[CkshC=]

In HIAC Taker won either because of punk in 'dog house' or because Hell in the Cell is the deadman's home.

secondly, DX won legacy as WWE wants to continue having dx on screen and having them lose to legacy in hell in a cell would make them look weak. Legacy made a wrestled great at HIAC, but wwe wanted to keep the casual fans happ.

though im not really happy with this, but wtf? so what? tna also has mick foley, booker, victoria/tara etc, and tna also uses them, why cant wwe? and the reason why tna gets flamed as much as it is is that they took quite a lot of great talents from wwe, roh etc. im not saying wwe doesnt take from other organizations, butWwe doesnt take as much as tna from other wrestling organizations.

and yes, wwe is burying young talents, but they are also getting criticized a hell lot more than tna. check other wrestling fan webs.


so, stop crying.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Well, maybe because in order to make a good feud, it shouldn't be one-sided. I liked how you ignored the fact that for basically the whole summer and for most of the fall, CM Punk was the fucking man. This guy has basically been built up as much as Edge, and you're complaining that he lost the title to advance one of the most interesting storylines of the year?

He lost the title because he's in the "doghouse". A company having trouble creating stars is burying talent for frivolous reasons instead of doing the right thing and trying to solidify him. Let's face it CM Punk is a multi-world champion but he's a joke and that is thanks to his booking. Burying the man has made him the weakest booked champion in WWE history.

Again, Legacy has been built up as a legitimate threat over the past few months. I can see no reason why DX shouldn't have one or two victories over Legacy. There's a difference between pushing a superstar and putting them in a league they don't belong in.

Lol at legitimate threat. Legacy has been booked as a joke and that 1 victory at summerslam along with a little bit of promo time doesn't make them a threat son. Try again.

Yeah, horrible booking. Instead of getting people to instantly watch by putting two main eventers at the start of the show, maybe we should've had Mike Knox and Hardy open the show, and have R-Truth and McIntyre main event!

At least Legacy was in the fucking main event. At the beginning of this year, they were Triple H's bitches. Now they're a legitimate threat to Shawn and Hunter.

Lol at your defense. When do you ever have your biggest feud involving a world title open your PPV and then have one of your least important feuds close a PPV? You always open up your PPV with midcarders.

And lol. At the end of the PPV, Legacy went right back to being HHH & Shawn's bitches. So at the beginning of the PPV, they bury Punk and at the end of the night, Legacy is laying on their back by DX for the umpteenth time just so HHH can come out on top as always. Yeah, WWE is sure elevating new stars, huh?

No.

For a company that's having internal problems creating new stars, yes it is!

Because if Triple H, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Batista, and Jericho all retired, then we'd have Cena, Orton, Punk, Christian, and Edge to take over as main-eventers, not to mention the up-and-coming guys we have in the WWE.

If the old heads at TNA retired, we'd have AJ Styles, Joe and Hernandez to take over. There is really no comparison.

We'd have AJ Styles, Joe, Hernandez, Matt Morgan, Bobby Lashley (maybe), Rhino(former world champion), Abyss(former world champion), and maybe even some WE members will be elevated. Not to mention, TNA is not 2 brands. They don't need to have 10 new guys be elevated for the world title like WWE. There's only one world title and AJ, Joe, Hernandez, and Morgan is more than enough to be gunning for the TNA world title.

Considering the fact that Styles and Joe are the only young guys to ever hold the title, it doesn't compare to the new stars being made in WWE. Triple H feuded with Orton over the title. It wasn't a one-sided battle like most of the World Title feuds in TNA are. CM Punk is feuding with Undertaker over the title. There's a difference between feuding, and one-sided, uninteresting, predictable fights.

Like I said, TNA has 1 world title and 1 main event. They've elevated enough young stars to the point that if anything happened, they can fill in their spots. WWE is on E when it comes to creating new guys. TNA elevated Hernandez, Morgan, EY, and AJ within months, whereas WWE has only pushed CM Punk this year.

And lol at talking about 1 sided, then mentioning HHH & Orton. Throughout the HHH/Orton feud, Orton was made to look weak and HHH came out looking dominant. The feud barely helped Orton. All the feud did was feed HHH's ego.

You can't give me 1 example of a 1 sided main event feud in TNA because it's never happened. When Joe faced Angle, Joe and Angle exchanged victories and in the end Joe got the big win and won the world title. When AJ & Angle faced off, AJ came out the victor thus elevating him and making him look legit. Scott Steiner put over Joe a number of times, Nash put over Joe, Booker T has put over Joe and AJ. How many times have Taker & HHH put over someone clean?

.

Triple H hasn't had the title since Backlash. Shawn hasn't touched the fucking thing since forever, and if he's been in a title match, he's put someone over. Batista draws, and although he's boring as a dog taking a shit, he draws, so I would trust him in the main event moreso than John Morrison or Kofi Kingston. Undertaker? Running the WWE? This is the first time he's won a title in a long time. And Jericho hasn't been World Champion since last year.

TNA is entertaining, but it gets shit because everywhere you go, it's Angle this, Sting that, Nash here, Booker there, etc. I can see why they use these "old-timers", and I'm fine with it. I'd rather see TNA succeed with mostly veterans and some rookies, rather than all rookies and no vets. Then, they'd be like Ring Of Honor. I don't have a problem with TNA until delusional marks start saying that it's better than the WWE.

*Yawn* It's the same thing in WWE, Mr. Lawyer. It's the same guys over and over fighting each other and getting multiple world title reigns. It's either HHH/Orton, Orton/Cena, Cena/HHH, Batista/Orton, Batista/Undertaker, Batista/Edge, Edge/Undertaker, Edge/Cena. It's the same guys over and over feuding for the titles and worse enough out of those same 6 guys, 3 of them are over 40. You claim they're creating new stars but I don't see any new stars in this championship exchange equation that I listed. It's the same guys fighing. You claim it's always about Sting and the MEM but when was the last time anyone in MEM besides Kurt Angle in the main event? Talk all you want but in TNA, it's not the same main events over and over.

Nice try, buddy but you need a better defense.

 

[The Gribbler]

Does the OP spend any time in the WWE forums? As has been stated already, there has been many complaints about this very subject and it seems to be nothing more then a spam thread attempting to elicit some sort of response from the WZ faithful.

Seriously, posters who waste our time with this sort of drivel really piss me off.

Not much we can do I suppose.

On Topic: I do not ignore the WWE's sometimes nonsensical booking, however you are deluded if you don't admit TNA do this on a weekly basis. Not knocking TNA, it's a young company and it is getting better BUT they do this far more often than the WWE and you really cant ignore that.

Just My Opinion.

P.S. 199!! One more to go.

 

[D-Man]

Ladies and gentlemen... let the owning begin...

He lost the title because he's in the "doghouse". A company having trouble creating stars is burying talent for frivolous reasons instead of doing the right thing and trying to solidify him. Let's face it CM Punk is a multi-world champion but he's a joke and that is thanks to his booking. Burying the man has made him the weakest booked champion in WWE history.

This is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. Do you think that telling an absolute farce such as this is going to even slightly give validity to your point?? So what you're saying is that Mysterio is a joke of an IC champion because he was buried for failing a drug test. And the Undertaker's first WHC reign is tarnished because he was buried after Edge cashed in Money in the Bank on Smackdown. And Batista's WHC reign that he gave up after injuring his tricep meant nothing because he was "buried" from relinquishing the title, right? Being "buried", as you stated, means nothing. It's what you did with your title run that makes it stand out.

Lol at legitimate threat. Legacy has been booked as a joke and that 1 victory at summerslam along with a little bit of promo time doesn't make them a threat son. Try again.

They've been slapping DX all over Raw for months. So you're saying that weekly run-ins and wins on Raw don't count? Your thinking is close-minded and one-dimensional.

Lol at your defense. When do you ever have your biggest feud involving a world title open your PPV and then have one of your least important feuds close a PPV? You always open up your PPV with midcarders.

Is this written in the LetEmKnow rulebook? The WWE had three HIAC matches and decided to make them the first, middle, and last matches on the card. Even the Cena/Orton match took a back seat to DX vs. Legacy. Order of matches means absolutely nothing unless you're unable to open your mind to something different. Why do we always need a cookie-cutter schedule of wrestling matches on a PPV card? What's wrong with shaking things up? Nothing... and that's why the WWE tramples TNA. Because TNA is just a copycat of the WWE.

And lol. At the end of the PPV, Legacy went right back to being HHH & Shawn's bitches. So at the beginning of the PPV, they bury Punk and at the end of the night, Legacy is laying on their back by DX for the umpteenth time just so HHH can come out on top as always. Yeah, WWE is sure elevating new stars, huh?

It's ONE Pay Per View. Like I said earlier, Legacy was slapping DX around on Raw for weeks and weeks before this matchup and prior to their win at Breaking Point. Maybe if you thought more than 5 minutes ago you'd realize this.

For a company that's having internal problems creating new stars, yes it is!

How is TNA any better? Who has truly broken new ground in the past 12 months?

Hernandez had a FOF briefcase with a World Championship title shot since 2008 and how did they use it? They threw him in as a filler to support AJ Styles in winning the title. He was wasted AGAIN.

Eric Young couldn't do jack shit on his own so they used him in typical Vince Russo booking fashion... they threw him in a stable and had him become the leader. And besides wearing a suit, he doesn't look like a legitimate leader of World Elite. He looks like mag wheels on a dumptruck.

Samoa Joe was thrown into the MEM. Congratulations... his fat ass was finally able to be covered up because he's now offiicially buried by the over-the-hill veterans that aren't willing to get out of the spotlight.

Matt Morgan is the only legitimate newbie to be given a decent push. However, it's being rushed. He's still very sloppy in the ring and his mic skills are subpar.

And Suicide?? All I can say is... HAHAHHAAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!

We'd have AJ Styles, Joe, Hernandez, Matt Morgan, Bobby Lashley (maybe), Rhino(former world champion), Abyss(former world champion), and maybe even some WE members will be elevated. Not to mention, TNA is not 2 brands. They don't need to have 10 new guys be elevated for the world title like WWE. There's only one world title and AJ, Joe, Hernandez, and Morgan is more than enough to be gunning for the TNA world title.

-Lashley's TNA career takes a backseat to his MMA career. He's a liability to injury and schedule conflicts.
-Hernandez is shit... period.
-Matt Morgan is taller shit.
-Rhino has been garbage since ECW.
-Abyss is a Mankind clone, and they're even insinuating that on TV now.
-World Elite is the biggest clusterfuck of failures I've ever seen.
-AJ is your only savior here.

Now what?

Like I said, TNA has 1 world title and 1 main event. They've elevated enough young stars to the point that if anything happened, they can fill in their spots. WWE is on E when it comes to creating new guys. TNA elevated Hernandez, Morgan, EY, and AJ within months, whereas WWE has only pushed CM Punk this year.

"LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL." Do these letters prove any points to us?

I love how every smark on the net seems to think that title reigns = push. It's about your position being elevated. In the past year, the TNA stars have been in the same spots, besides the World Elite. But where had WE gone? They cut promos and have altercations with the MEM. Hopefully, in the near future, this will elevate them, but the WE by themselves have been extremely unsuccessful thus far. Nothing can change the fact that they're reported to have half a stable full of shit wrestlers.

And lol at talking about 1 sided, then mentioning HHH & Orton. Throughout the HHH/Orton feud, Orton was made to look weak and HHH came out looking dominant. The feud barely helped Orton. All the feud did was feed HHH's ego.

More LOL-ing. Ugh...

Orton was made to look weak against Triple H? Are you serious? Orton kicked HHH's wife in the head and created one of the best feuds of this year so far. Orton took Mr. Invincible, HHH, off television for weeks after a beating he recived at Backlash and after beating Triple H for the title. Orton became so strong and HHH was getting beat down week after week by Orton and Legacy so badly that he had to enlist the help of HBK and reform DX.

Orton looked weak? What show have you been watching? Just because you say that in a post doesn't mean it's true. You obviously haven't been paying attention to your history.

You can't give me 1 example of a 1 sided main event feud in TNA because it's never happened. When Joe faced Angle, Joe and Angle exchanged victories and in the end Joe got the big win and won the world title. When AJ & Angle faced off, AJ came out the victor thus elevating him and making him look legit. Scott Steiner put over Joe a number of times, Nash put over Joe, Booker T has put over Joe and AJ. How many times have Taker & HHH put over someone clean?

Triple H has been putting wrestlers over clean for years. Batista, Orton, John Cena, Edge, Legacy... And all have gone on to become superstars, with the exception of Legacy who are now on the cusp of breaking into the main event.

Taker has been putting over guys like Edge, CM Punk, and Batista. If his wins weren't clean it's because he's a monster babyface and controversy creates cash and more pay per view buys. You're too busy thinking one-dimensionally that you fail to realize this. And you want a clean loss by the Undertaker? Fine... he lost clean to the fucking GREAT KHALI, for Christ's sake. It doesn't get more humbling than that.

*Yawn* It's the same thing in WWE, Mr. Lawyer. It's the same guys over and over fighting each other and getting multiple world title reigns. It's either HHH/Orton, Orton/Cena, Cena/HHH, Batista/Orton, Batista/Undertaker, Batista/Edge, Edge/Undertaker, Edge/Cena. It's the same guys over and over feuding for the titles and worse enough out of those same 6 guys, 3 of them are over 40. You claim they're creating new stars but I don't see any new stars in this championship exchange equation that I listed. It's the same guys fighing. You claim it's always about Sting and the MEM but when was the last time anyone in MEM besides Kurt Angle in the main event? Talk all you want but in TNA, it's not the same main events over and over.

Nice try, buddy but you need a better defense.

And this is your defense? So you're saying the WWE has put the same guys in their main events, and they're all old? Wow... now I've seen all of your bullshit, and it definitely stinks. Let's do the math...

First, let's look at all of the WWE's main event stars you mentioned (plus a few that you conveniently missed): (* = 40+ stars)

*Batista = 40 yrs old
*Taker = 44 yrs old
*HHH = 40 yrs old
Orton = 29 yrs old
Edge = 35 yrs old
Jeff Hardy = 32 yrs old (you missed)
CM Punk = 30 yrs old (you missed)
Cena = 32 yrs old

Now, let's look at TNA's main event contenders from the past 12 months... (* = 40+ stars, ** = 50+ stars)

*Kurt Angle = 40 yrs old
*Mick Foley = 44 yrs old
**Sting = 50 yrs old
**Kevin Nash = 50 yrs old
AJ Styles = 31 yrs old
Matt Morgan = 33 yrs old
Hernandez = 36 yrs old (one title shot, a wasted FOF briefcase only 3 weeks ago)

Now, since you feel that title reigns = pushes, there have only been 5 TNA world champions since the belt was made. The title has been in effect for 843 days and counting. Angle, Sting and Foley held the belt cumulatively for 645 days while AJ and Joe held it for 198. Here's the breakdown: (Remember: * = 40+ stars, ** = 50+ stars)

*Angle = 391 days
*Foley = 63 days
**Sting = 191 days
AJ + Joe combined = 198 days

Now, for the WWE wrestlers' title reigns since the TNA title's inception:

Orton = 337 days
Edge = 337 days (WHC and WWE championships)
CM Punk = 160 days
John Cena = 126 days
*HHH = 280 days
*Batista = 101 days
*Taker = 69 days

Gee... TNA's really pushing young talent while the WWE is using their older stars, huh??

Congratulations... you're WRONG. Just give up now and accept it. (And don't forget to read the first line of my signature, because you just did.)

 

[TellMeWhy]

This is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. Do you think that telling an absolute farce such as this is going to even slightly give validity to your point?? So what you're saying is that Mysterio is a joke of an IC champion because he was buried for failing a drug test. And the Undertaker's first WHC reign is tarnished because he was buried after Edge cashed in Money in the Bank on Smackdown. And Batista's WHC reign that he gave up after injuring his tricep meant nothing because he was "buried" from relinquishing the title, right? Being "buried", as you stated, means nothing. It's what you did with your title run that makes it stand out.

And CM Punk has done nothing with his world title wins except get his ass kicked and win fluke victories. Punk has been booked as a fluke champion since 2008 when he cashed in his MITB briefcase on Edge even when he was a face. A victory over the Undertaker could have taken that stigma off of him but they decided to bury him in a curtain jerker. The man barely put up a fight and lost so easy. Jeff Hardy beat him the same way at Night Of Champions I think to get his 3rd title win. Punk is a joke!

They've been slapping DX all over Raw for months. So you're saying that weekly run-ins and wins on Raw don't count? Your thinking is close-minded and one-dimensional.

No it doesn't count. A run in doesn't make you a threat. And the last thing I remember the last time Legacy was on Raw was they got mic time and had DX own them from the crowd and then got their ass kicked by DX on top of that. That's some elevation.

Is this written in the LetEmKnow rulebook? The WWE had three HIAC matches and decided to make them the first, middle, and last matches on the card. Even the Cena/Orton match took a back seat to DX vs. Legacy. Order of matches means absolutely nothing unless you're unable to open your mind to something different. Why do we always need a cookie-cutter schedule of wrestling matches on a PPV card? What's wrong with shaking things up? Nothing... and that's why the WWE tramples TNA. Because TNA is just a copycat of the WWE.

No the order of matches mean plenty. Would you have a divas match a close a PPV? No I don't think so. Having 1 of your biggest and most hyped feuds curtain jerk a PPV and have your new talent that you're trying to establish as a legit player made him look like a joke and buried him. So yes, match order seems small but it plays a huge role.

So WWE tramples TNA because they try no things? No! WWE tramples TNA because they have a 60 year head start and over a century of a library worth full of wrestling history. If a corporate conglomerate like this couldn't trample a 7 year old company, then something would be terribly wrong.

It's ONE Pay Per View. Like I said earlier, Legacy was slapping DX around on Raw for weeks and weeks before this matchup and prior to their win at Breaking Point. Maybe if you thought more than 5 minutes ago you'd realize this.

Yeah and where exactly did Legacy slapping DX take them? Legacy wasn't even featured on RAW or even mentioned on RAW on Monday after DX handed their asses to him. So basically Legacy being "elevated" has just tanked thanks to HHH and his ego and his constant habit of burying talent and staying on top.

How is TNA any better? Who has truly broken new ground in the past 12 months?

Hernandez had a FOF briefcase with a World Championship title shot since 2008 and how did they use it? They threw him in as a filler to support AJ Styles in winning the title. He was wasted AGAIN.

Eric Young couldn't do jack shit on his own so they used him in typical Vince Russo booking fashion... they threw him in a stable and had him become the leader. And besides wearing a suit, he doesn't look like a legitimate leader of World Elite. He looks like mag wheels on a dumptruck.

Samoa Joe was thrown into the MEM. Congratulations... his fat ass was finally able to be covered up because he's now offiicially buried by the over-the-hill veterans that aren't willing to get out of the spotlight.

Matt Morgan is the only legitimate newbie to be given a decent push. However, it's being rushed. He's still very sloppy in the ring and his mic skills are subpar.

And Suicide?? All I can say is... HAHAHHAAHAAHHAHAHAAHAHAHA!!!!

AJ, Morgan, Hernandez, and EY are in significantly better positions than they were a year ago without a doubt despite what you're bias opinion would say.

And for backup, TNA has 3 former world champions in Abyss, Rhino, and Samoa Joe. Yes, those 3 guys may not be in the same positions as they were years ago but if push comes the shove, then TNA can easily give them a slight push to re-elevate them and have them back in the uppercard since their past world title win give them a bit of credibility.

So there you have it. That is 4 upstart talents and 3 backup talents. That is 7 guys right now which is more than enough to fill in spots incase all the vets and starpower all got up and left TNA at once. And mind you, those 4 recently elevated guys, let alone 7 is more than enough for one main event/uppercard picture.

Let's look at the WWE now. You've got your main event guys in Undertaker, Batista, HHH, and HBK(All old farts btw) and then you've got your 3 young stars in Cena, Orton and Edge. If all those guys died in a plane crash at once, what would you be left with:

You'd have your 1 elevated champion whose been booked as a joke in CM Punk. Wow just 1 guy! And that 1 guy can't get a clean win to save his life.

Moving along, you have the former world champions in Kane, Big Show, Jericho, and Rey Mysterio. 4 guys. 3 of them are old farts(Kane, Big Show, and Y2J) and 1 is injury prone and catching up in age(Rey Mysterio)

So with 2 world titles, you mean to tell me if anything ever happened to all of WWE's main event guys, you'd have these guys for fill in? Mind you only 1 guy has broke through the ceiling in CM Punk and like I said, he's been buried since his first real world title. This is a complete travesty.

Now come defend that Defense Man.

I love how every smark on the net seems to think that title reigns = push. It's about your position being elevated. In the past year, the TNA stars have been in the same spots, besides the World Elite. But where had WE gone? They cut promos and have altercations with the MEM. Hopefully, in the near future, this will elevate them, but the WE by themselves have been extremely unsuccessful thus far. Nothing can change the fact that they're reported to have half a stable full of shit wrestlers.

That's the point of elevating guys. You take guys who have done nothing and try to get them on another level. That is something TNA is attempting to do and something WWE should follow suit instead of having their spotlight hungry veterans continue to stay on top for decades and bury talent.

More LOL-ing. Ugh...

Orton was made to look weak against Triple H? Are you serious? Orton kicked HHH's wife in the head and created one of the best feuds of this year so far. Orton took Mr. Invincible, HHH, off television for weeks after a beating he recived at Backlash and after beating Triple H for the title. Orton became so strong and HHH was getting beat down week after week by Orton and Legacy so badly that he had to enlist the help of HBK and reform DX.

Orton looked weak? What show have you been watching? Just because you say that in a post doesn't mean it's true. You obviously haven't been paying attention to your history.

Are you crazy? Orton use to run like a rabbit dog from HHH. Didn't HHH invade Orton's home and attack him? Not to mention, HHH handed Orton's ass to him at WrestleMania. No one even remembers Orton's victory over HHH at Backlash because HHH protected himself by having the title defended in a 6 man match where Orton got a tainted victory to win the belt that no one will remember since it was a forgettable match at a forgettable PPV and partly because world title reigns mean nothing in the WWE. If anything, Orton should have beat HHH and won the belt at Mania to put him over as a legit threat but HHH being the spotlight hog that he is had to take the big victory on the biggest stage.

Triple H has been putting wrestlers over clean for years. Batista, Orton, John Cena, Edge, Legacy... And all have gone on to become superstars, with the exception of Legacy who are now on the cusp of breaking into the main event.

Yeah and he goes right back and gets a victory over them after he puts them over. King of Kings. HHH will forever hold a top spot as a top dog until age 60. All Hail the King of Burials, HHH.

Undertaker? Fine... he lost clean to the fucking GREAT KHALI, for Christ's sake. It doesn't get more humbling than that.

And what happened next. Undertaker still won the feud with Khali and as you can see it hasn't done much for Khali.

And this is your defense? So you're saying the WWE has put the same guys in their main events, and they're all old? Wow... now I've seen all of your bullshit, and it definitely stinks. Let's do the math...

First, let's look at all of the WWE's main event stars you mentioned (plus a few that you conveniently missed): (* = 40+ stars)

*Batista = 40 yrs old
*Taker = 44 yrs old
*HHH = 40 yrs old
Orton = 29 yrs old
Edge = 35 yrs old
Jeff Hardy = 32 yrs old (you missed)
CM Punk = 30 yrs old (you missed)
Cena = 32 yrs old

Jeff Hardy is no longer in WWE, so you FAIL right there. CM Punk is about to be 31 which is young, Edge is 36 going on 37. That is 3 years away from age 40. I also like how you dodged HBK who main evented WM with John Cena and at HIAC is 43 years old. And Y2J who is in and out of main events but is mostly upper midcard is 39 years old. That's alot of guys in WWE near or in their 40s pal. TRY AGAIN!

Now, let's look at TNA's main event contenders from the past 12 months... (* = 40+ stars, ** = 50+ stars)

*Kurt Angle = 40 yrs old
*Mick Foley = 44 yrs old
**Sting = 50 yrs old
**Kevin Nash = 50 yrs old
AJ Styles = 31 yrs old
Matt Morgan = 33 yrs old
Hernandez = 36 yrs old (one title shot, a wasted FOF briefcase only 3 weeks ago)

If you're going to talk 12 months, then you have to include Samoa Joe because he was a champion 12 months ago at this time.

And lol at including Kevin Nash. Here goes another FAIL. Kevin Nash is not a TNA main eventer. He's a TNA midcarder. EPIC FAIL! Nice desperate attempt from the The Desperate Man. I'm sorry, I mean the Defense Lawyer Man

Now, since you feel that title reigns = pushes, there have only been 5 TNA world champions since the belt was made. The title has been in effect for 843 days and counting. Angle, Sting and Foley held the belt cumulatively for 645 days while AJ and Joe held it for 198. Here's the breakdown: (Remember: * = 40+ stars, ** = 50+ stars)

*Angle = 391 days
*Foley = 63 days
**Sting = 191 days
AJ + Joe combined = 198 days

Wrong, Samoa Joe is 1 of the longest reigning TNA champions so TRY AGAIN! EPIC FAIL by you again.

Now, for the WWE wrestlers' title reigns since the TNA title's inception:

Orton = 337 days
Edge = 337 days (WHC and WWE championships)
CM Punk = 160 days
John Cena = 126 days
*HHH = 280 days
*Batista = 101 days
*Taker = 69 days

Gee... TNA's really pushing young talent while the WWE is using their older stars, huh??

Congratulations... you're WRONG. Just give up now and accept it. (And don't forget to read the first line of my signature, because you just did.)

EPIC FAIL again. How many losses are you going to take in 1 post? You talk about WWE pushing young talent but yet you have Batista, Undertaker, and HHH included in your list of world title reigns when trying to prove a point that WWE is pushing their young stars. All you did was prove that they push the old men. And in the same process, you proved that world title reigns mean nothing in WWE since all of those guys have a ridiculous span of world title reigns within a year and a half. You and your entire defense has been a joke.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Let's look at the WWE superstars who have been put on another level this year....
Kofi
Miz
Swagger
Morrison
Ziggler
Ryder
Legacy

What about TNA you say?
Morgan
Hernandez
Young

Young isn't believable as member of the World Elite after being a comedy act for years and Hernandez isn't world championship material at this point so you're only left with Morgan who is good but not great.

WWE has done a better job of elevating younger superstars than TNA when veterans are concerned. The veterans of TNA dominate their show more than the veterans of WWE.

 

[D-Man]

Let's look at the WWE superstars who have been put on another level this year....
Kofi
Miz
Swagger
Morrison
Ziggler
Ryder
Legacy

What about TNA you say?
Morgan
Hernandez
Young

Young isn't believable as member of the World Elite after being a comedy act for years and Hernandez isn't world championship material at this point so you're only left with Morgan who is good but not great.

WWE has done a better job of elevating younger superstars than TNA when veterans are concerned. The veterans of TNA dominate their show more than the veterans of WWE.

First of all... THIS ^^

It pretty much sums up my argument without the use of facts and figures. But, our friend LetEmKnow seems to think using phrases like "LOL", "", "", "epic fail", and use of caps proves their point. I love when people get too emotional during debates...

And CM Punk has done nothing with his world title wins except get his ass kicked and win fluke victories. Punk has been booked as a fluke champion since 2008 when he cashed in his MITB briefcase on Edge even when he was a face. A victory over the Undertaker could have taken that stigma off of him but they decided to bury him in a curtain jerker. The man barely put up a fight and lost so easy. Jeff Hardy beat him the same way at Night Of Champions I think to get his 3rd title win. Punk is a joke!

Have you actually watched Smackdown? They had him take out one of Smackdown's biggest babyfaces in the past 10 years by winning a retirement match against Jeff Hardy. Oh, that's right... since he's no longer in the WWE he doesn't count, right? Let's just erase those moments from our memories then.

No it doesn't count. A run in doesn't make you a threat. And the last thing I remember the last time Legacy was on Raw was they got mic time and had DX own them from the crowd and then got their ass kicked by DX on top of that. That's some elevation.

This statement is hilarious. I'm seriously laughing as I read this. You actually said that run ins don't make someone a threat, right? Wow... you did.

This is how feuds have been built since the beginning of time. Seriously, you don't have a clue. When a heel beats the living crap out of a babyface wrestler in a run-in or street fight format, it automatically makes them look like a threat and antagonizes the babyface to gain revenge.

No the order of matches mean plenty. Would you have a divas match a close a PPV? No I don't think so. Having 1 of your biggest and most hyped feuds curtain jerk a PPV and have your new talent that you're trying to establish as a legit player made him look like a joke and buried him. So yes, match order seems small but it plays a huge role.

So you're comparing a Divas match to DX vs Legacy? You're going a bit extreme here. I see what you're saying in terms of match order, but in no way was I stating that a Divas match should main event. I'm simply saying that DX vs. Legacy was one of the most hyped up matches on the card for HIAC. It was hyped just as much as the two title matches. It deserves a spot in the main event just as much as the others. But, to make things a bit different and spread around the excitement, the WWE split those three heavily-hyped matches at the beginning, middle, and end of the show. They created the standard of "match order" so they have every right in the world to change it.

So WWE tramples TNA because they try no things? No! WWE tramples TNA because they have a 60 year head start and over a century of a library worth full of wrestling history. If a corporate conglomerate like this couldn't trample a 7 year old company, then something would be terribly wrong.

No, WWE tramples TNA because TNA is shit... period.

Yeah and where exactly did Legacy slapping DX take them? Legacy wasn't even featured on RAW or even mentioned on RAW on Monday after DX handed their asses to him. So basically Legacy being "elevated" has just tanked thanks to HHH and his ego and his constant habit of burying talent and staying on top.

First of all, I'll tell you where it took them... now they're considered as legitimate main-event threats, both as a tag team and as individuals. As for them not appearing on Raw, shouldn't they sell their injuries? Hell, Cody was carried out on a stretcher at the end of the event.

And Legacy isn't elevated? So what you're trying to imply is that new stars are never allowed to lose to veteran stars, no matter what the situation? That makes no sense. If that's the case, you're breeding the next generation of "invincible" characters. Everyone need to lose sometime, my friend. And at times, losing provides a bigger acceleration than winning. Just look at Miz vs Cena, Cena vs Angle, Orton vs HHH (first feud after Evolution split). All of these feuds (plus MANY more) ended with the new superstar coming out on the losing end to the veteran star. It's almost if you're saying that if a new star is going to be pushed, they have to have an undefeated streak like Goldberg. You couldn't be more wrong.

AJ, Morgan, Hernandez, and EY are in significantly better positions than they were a year ago without a doubt despite what you're bias opinion would say.

Prove this. Seriously, PROVE it. Morgan is the only one in a better position.

Hernandez made a lateral move when LAX broke up. He wrestled in ONE match of substance after holding a FoF briefcase for a year, and he was buried in the shuffle of two veterans, a star being pushed to the moon, and a pre-established superstar.

AJ is still a top contender... that never changed (and I love that guy, by the way).

Eric Young is nothing but a mouthpiece right now and he was a joke to the wrestling world a year ago. He's on his way now and I hope they keep up what they're doing with him, but his elevation is still in its infant stages.

And for backup, TNA has 3 former world champions in Abyss, Rhino, and Samoa Joe. Yes, those 3 guys may not be in the same positions as they were years ago but if push comes the shove, then TNA can easily give them a slight push to re-elevate them and have them back in the uppercard since their past world title win give them a bit of credibility.

Rhino is absolute dogshit. He was NWA champion in 2005 and held the belt for 2 days. I can't believe you even brought him up.

Abyss was NWA champion 3 years ago for 56 days. Now he's a comedic, psychotic, hardcore wrestler that's in midcard limbo.

Samoa Joe is accomplished and could probably step up if the TNA world came crashing down, but they've kept him so stale since he's joined the MEM that no one would take him seriously.

And how does a 2-day title reign allow someone to get "a slight push to re-elevate them and have them back in the uppercard since their past world title win give them a bit of credibility"?? You're living in a dream world.

So there you have it. That is 4 upstart talents and 3 backup talents. That is 7 guys right now which is more than enough to fill in spots incase all the vets and starpower all got up and left TNA at once.

Yeah, a glorified star in AJ, an upcoming push in Morgan, and 5 other guys made of stinky dogshit. Congrats.

Let's look at the WWE now. You've got your main event guys in Undertaker, Batista, HHH, and HBK(All old farts btw) and then you've got your 3 young stars in Cena, Orton and Edge. If all those guys died in a plane crash at once, what would you be left with:

First of all, ages vary in pro-wrestling. Just because someone turns 40 doesn't automatically mean they need to hang it up and they're shit. Second of all, if age did matter, you can take out your entire top stable on TNA television (MEM) with the exception of Samoa Joe. Without them, you have no main events and no one for your precious World Elite to feud with an elevate their dogshit members. So basically, that make them as good as dead. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot there.

You'd have your 1 elevated champion whose been booked as a joke in CM Punk. Wow just 1 guy! And that 1 guy can't get a clean win to save his life.

Yeah. CM Punk. And Morrison, Miz, MVP, Ziggler, Christian, Kingston... (my hands are getting tired...)

Moving along, you have the former world champions in Kane, Big Show, Jericho, and Rey Mysterio. 4 guys. 3 of them are old farts(Kane, Big Show, and Y2J) and 1 is injury prone and catching up in age(Rey Mysterio).

Um, according to your wonderful theory that states wrestlers under 40 = youth, Jericho is 38, Rey is 34 and Big Show is 37. So 3/4 of your statement has just been proven to be dogshit... again.

And Mysterio is injury prone? Probably because he wrestles 300 days a year while TNA guys are lucky if they go twice a week. Either way, his right nut has done more for the business of pro-wrestling than the entire non-veteran roster of TNA.

So with 2 world titles, you mean to tell me if anything ever happened to all of WWE's main event guys, you'd have these guys for fill in? Mind you only 1 guy has broke through the ceiling in CM Punk and like I said, he's been buried since his first real world title. This is a complete travesty.

Now come defend that Defense Man.

I listed them before and my hands are still tired, so I won't type them again.

"Defense Man"? It has quite a ring to it...

That's the point of elevating guys. You take guys who have done nothing and try to get them on another level. That is something TNA is attempting to do and something WWE should follow suit instead of having their spotlight hungry veterans continue to stay on top for decades and bury talent.

So you agree with me then. Another level doesn't mean "world title", you dimwit. That's what I was explaining.

And you wanna talk about spotlight hungry veterans? What do you call Sting, Angle, Foley, Booker T, Steiner and Nash?!? They're three of your main event guys, the guy holding your #2 title right now, and the guys holding your tag belts. Pay attention to your own TV show before you knock mine.

Are you crazy? Orton use to run like a rabbit dog from HHH. Didn't HHH invade Orton's home and attack him? Not to mention, HHH handed Orton's ass to him at WrestleMania. No one even remembers Orton's victory over HHH at Backlash because HHH protected himself by having the title defended in a 6 man match where Orton got a tainted victory to win the belt that no one will remember since it was a forgettable match at a forgettable PPV and partly because world title reigns mean nothing in the WWE. If anything, Orton should have beat HHH and won the belt at Mania to put him over as a legit threat but HHH being the spotlight hog that he is had to take the big victory on the biggest stage.

What people remember about Orton is that he's been the most dominant figure in the WWE for the past two years. More dominant than HHH... more dominant than Cena... more dominant than HBK... more than Jericho or Big Show... more than Kane... Undertaker... Punk...

The guy can't be invincible... he has to lose sometimes. He had epic feuds with HHH and he won some and lost some. But what's the result? Exactly what I stated above.

Yeah and he goes right back and gets a victory over them after he puts them over. King of Kings. HHH will forever hold a top spot as a top dog until age 60. All Hail the King of Burials, HHH.

[clears throat]

Kurt Angle!!

<crickets>

And what happened next. Undertaker still won the feud with Khali and as you can see it hasn't done much for Khali.

That's because everyone realized that Khali is absolute shit. But that didn't stop the WWE from giving him the ultimate push... CLEAN.

Jeff Hardy is no longer in WWE, so you FAIL right there.

Um, weren't we talking about pushes for young wrestlers from the past few years? Doesn't that count Hardy? Who gives a shit if he's not there now. He has become legendary. The WWE did their job.

CM Punk is about to be 31 which is young, Edge is 36 going on 37. That is 3 years away from age 40.

Wow... you're just trying to hard now. So 36 years is too old? I guess you can take Hernandez (36) out of your equation then. Nice one.

I also like how you dodged HBK who main evented WM with John Cena and at HIAC is 43 years old.

That was 2007. He's been nowhere near the main event since then, unless you count this past Sunday. But I guess HIAC doesn't count since your standard of "main event material" only has to do with contending for the world championship, right?

And Y2J who is in and out of main events but is mostly upper midcard is 39 years old. That's alot of guys in WWE near or in their 40s pal. TRY AGAIN!

So we went from guys over forty, to guys 3 or 4 years from turning 40, to guys near their forties. Your backpedalling is getting very amusing. Pretty soon you'll be saying that 30 year olds are too old to be wrestling in main events and 60-something year olds like Terry Funk should make comebacks and wrestle for world titles.

If you're going to talk 12 months, then you have to include Samoa Joe because he was a champion 12 months ago at this time.

Gee whiz... in 5 days it'll officially be 12 months. Guess you got me there. Someone get this kid a lollipop.

And lol at including Kevin Nash. Here goes another FAIL. Kevin Nash is not a TNA main eventer. He's a TNA midcarder. EPIC FAIL! Nice desperate attempt from the The Desperate Man. I'm sorry, I mean the Defense Lawyer Man

I said he was a main event contender, moron. And I'm right. He competed with Kurt Angle on occasions prior to the MEM formation for a shot at the TNA championship. Not to mention that in the past year the Legends championship has been contested by men that have won the world title (Styles, Foley), so I figured he counted in that category. Shame on me, right?

Wrong, Samoa Joe is 1 of the longest reigning TNA champions so TRY AGAIN! EPIC FAIL by you again.

There have been 5 TNA champions in history, and when it came to reign-longevity, he came in 3rd place . I'd say that makes him one of the shortest reigning.

Oh, and I guess you missed the part when I was proving that only one younger star broke through the glass ceiling besides AJ Styles.

EPIC FAIL again. How many losses are you going to take in 1 post?

Besides the Samoa Joe/world champ/5 days thing, I'm still waiting for my first one.

You talk about WWE pushing young talent but yet you have Batista, Undertaker, and HHH included in your list of world title reigns when trying to prove a point that WWE is pushing their young stars. All you did was prove that they push the old men.

I also proved the same thing with TNA when it came to Foley, Sting and Angle. You really don't think outside of the box, do you?

And in the same process, you proved that world title reigns mean nothing in WWE since all of those guys have a ridiculous span of world title reigns within a year and a half. You and your entire defense has been a joke.

Actually, I proved that a world title reign is not the benchmark for a superstar push. It's quite possibly the end result, but superstars can be "pushed" in many other ways than giving them a title shot. I remember an episode of Smackdown where Vickie Guerrero had Edge face Funaki for the World Heavyweight Championship once. I get that means Funaki is now a main eventer, right?

Yup, you just got owned again.

 

[TellMeWhy]

First of all... THIS ^^

Lol at a Defense Attorney trying to use someone else's argument. You lost already.

It pretty much sums up my argument without the use of facts and figures. But, our friend LetEmKnow seems to think using phrases like "LOL", "", "", "epic fail", and use of caps proves their point. I love when people get too emotional during debates...

Lol at emotional. No Mr. Lawyer boy, I'm having fun owning you all over.

Have you actually watched Smackdown? They had him take out one of Smackdown's biggest babyfaces in the past 10 years by winning a retirement match against Jeff Hardy. Oh, that's right... since he's no longer in the WWE he doesn't count, right? Let's just erase those moments from our memories then.

Had Jeff Hardy not decided to leave, Punk would have never been champion and got that extra push. And it's sad that in order for WWE to start pushing guys, they have to have their back against the wall. That is sad.

This statement is hilarious. I'm seriously laughing as I read this. You actually said that run ins don't make someone a threat, right? Wow... you did.

Yes I did.

This is how feuds have been built since the beginning of time. Seriously, you don't have a clue. When a heel beats the living crap out of a babyface wrestler in a run-in or street fight format, it automatically makes them look like a threat and antagonizes the babyface to gain revenge.

It antagonizes the babyface but it doesn't make the antagonists an actual threat.

So you're comparing a Divas match to DX vs Legacy? You're going a bit extreme here. I see what you're saying in terms of match order, but in no way was I stating that a Divas match should main event. I'm simply saying that DX vs. Legacy was one of the most hyped up matches on the card for HIAC. It was hyped just as much as the two title matches. It deserves a spot in the main event just as much as the others. But, to make things a bit different and spread around the excitement, the WWE split those three heavily-hyped matches at the beginning, middle, and end of the show. They created the standard of "match order" so they have every right in the world to change it.

I wouldn't have a problem with the match order unless it made sense. There was absolutely no reason for DX to close the show whatsoever. It's basically saying that a DX win is more important than the world title and world title match exchanges. DX/Legacy was not a bigger and more hyped feud than Orton/Cena or Taker/Punk. If anything DX, could've opened the show and had Orton/Cena close the show with Orton and Cena staring at each other like how they did at the end of their match. All HHH did was go last because he wanted to be the center of attention for the umpteenth time.

No, WWE tramples TNA because TNA is shit... period.

Or maybe your taste is just shit.

First of all, I'll tell you where it took them... now they're considered as legitimate main-event threats, both as a tag team and as individuals. As for them not appearing on Raw, shouldn't they sell their injuries? Hell, Cody was carried out on a stretcher at the end of the event.

Lol at saying that they were carried on a stretcher while you're trying to claim them as some type of threat in the same breathe.

And Legacy isn't elevated?

No

So what you're trying to imply is that new stars are never allowed to lose to veteran stars, no matter what the situation?

That makes no sense. If that's the case, you're breeding the next generation of "invincible" characters. Everyone need to lose sometime, my friend. And at times, losing provides a bigger acceleration than winning. Just look at Miz vs Cena, Cena vs Angle, Orton vs HHH (first feud after Evolution split). All of these feuds (plus MANY more) ended with the new superstar coming out on the losing end to the veteran star. It's almost if you're saying that if a new star is going to be pushed, they have to have an undefeated streak like Goldberg. You couldn't be more wrong.

i never said that but that is the approach that TNA haters like you have towards their product with veterans going over lesser established talent from time to time. It's guys like you for the past year that claim that TNA is burying their young talent. So yes, I'm going to use that same approach in this argument as well.

Prove this. Seriously, PROVE it. Morgan is the only one in a better position.

So EY, Hernandez, and AJ aren't in better positions? Hell, even in terms of character traits, guys like Joe and Rhino are in better positions.

Hernandez made a lateral move when LAX broke up. He wrestled in ONE match of substance after holding a FoF briefcase for a year, and he was buried in the shuffle of two veterans, a star being pushed to the moon, and a pre-established superstar.

Hernandez got a nice rub from Sting in his first FOF match. He in turn got a clean victory over Samoa Joe on the 200th Impact Episode when he returned from injury. If you compare where Hernandez was last year in which he was nothing more than the big guy in LAX, then yes it's a huge jump to see him getting mic time and be uppermidcard.

And did you just say Hernandez was buried because he didn't win a match? Did I not say that Legacy was buried by HHH? Yet you're defending them when DX dismantled them and Hernandez always comes out looking strong. Oh the double standard. The double standard is here! Thanks for proving my point.

AJ is still a top contender... that never changed (and I love that guy, by the way).

AJ has always been that GUY in TNA but everyone knows he stepped down for quite a bit. If you compare where he was last year to this year, it's a huge significance. Last year, he was straggling from midcard-uppermidcard in feuds with Kurt Angle over Karen and feuding with Frank Trigg. This year, he's world champ. That's a WORLD of difference.

Eric Young is nothing but a mouthpiece right now and he was a joke to the wrestling world a year ago. He's on his way now and I hope they keep up what they're doing with him, but his elevation is still in its infant stages.

Exactly EY was a joke a year ago who was scared of his own pyro. Now he's a leader of a heel stable looking for dominance. That is a huge upgrade. As a character, he's been developed greatly. All TNA has to do now is put him over as an inring worker and he'll be sold well.

So yes, in all 4 guys have been elevated hugely and can easily transition to uppercard/main event which is more than can be said for the "elevated" WWE talent.

Rhino is absolute dogshit. He was NWA champion in 2005 and held the belt for 2 days. I can't believe you even brought him up.

So what, he's still a former world champion. 2 days or not. And he's no more shit than Randy Orton.

Abyss was NWA champion 3 years ago for 56 days. Now he's a comedic, psychotic, hardcore wrestler that's in midcard limbo.

Again, so what. A former world champion is a former world champion

Samoa Joe is accomplished and could probably step up if the TNA world came crashing down, but they've kept him so stale since he's joined the MEM that no one would take him seriously.

No one would take him seriously? Umm, speak for yourself.

And how does a 2-day title reign allow someone to get "a slight push to re-elevate them and have them back in the uppercard since their past world title win give them a bit of credibility"?? You're living in a dream world.

Lol, I can say the same thing about Kane. Wasn't Kane a world champion for 1 day? Yet until this day WWE can bring him to main event and uppermidcard when they please based on that 1 accomplishment he had 12 years ago. U always need a supporting cast and TNA has that. Maybe you're the one whose confused as to how things work pal.

Yeah, a glorified star in AJ, an upcoming push in Morgan, and 5 other guys made of stinky dogshit. Congrats.

No, 4 elevated guys and 3 guys on lay-away. That is very good, whereas the WWE, the company with over 6 hrs of tv programming and 2 world titles has only elevated 1 guy this whole year who has been booked as a joke and a fluke since his first world title win as a face and a tag team division made of make-shift teams. Congrats WWE. Keep pushing your posterboys for steroids and your old men over the young talent that u so desperately claim you're having a hard time developing.

First of all, ages vary in pro-wrestling. Just because someone turns 40 doesn't automatically mean they need to hang it up and they're shit. Second of all, if age did matter, you can take out your entire top stable on TNA television (MEM) with the exception of Samoa Joe. Without them, you have no main events and no one for your precious World Elite to feud with an elevate their dogshit members. So basically, that make them as good as dead. Thanks for shooting yourself in the foot there.

Oh really, tell that to your WWE mark friends who invade TNA conversations with "_____ and ____ needs to hang it up. ______ is past his prime. ____ is washed up. If you did that, we wouldn't be in this convo now, would we?

Yeah. CM Punk. And Morrison, Miz, MVP, Ziggler, Christian, Kingston... (my hands are getting tired...)

None of those guys have broke the ceiling to main event status or even uppercard with the exception of CM PUNK. EPIC FAIL!

Um, according to your wonderful theory that states wrestlers under 40 = youth, Jericho is 38, Rey is 34 and Big Show is 37. So 3/4 of your statement has just been proven to be dogshit... again.

Umm, you and your WWE marks made that claim first. Not me.

And Mysterio is injury prone? Probably because he wrestles 300 days a year while TNA guys are lucky if they go twice a week. Either way, his right nut has done more for the business of pro-wrestling than the entire non-veteran roster of TNA.

Yeah because Rey Mysterio is the only worker in WWE to wrestle 300 days a year. TRY AGAIN!

I listed them before and my hands are still tired, so I won't type them again.

And none of them counted because with the exception of 1, none of those guys are uppercard status or main event. Try again!

So you agree with me then. Another level doesn't mean "world title", you dimwit. That's what I was explaining.

No idiot, in the WWE world, they're having problems breaking in new stars and main event guys. Pushing guys to midcard and a little above midcard isn't solving their problem. TNA has their future main event guys covered as well as their midcard. WWE only has pushed Punk while the rest remain in midcard heaven.

And you wanna talk about spotlight hungry veterans? What do you call Sting, Angle, Foley, Booker T, Steiner and Nash?!? They're three of your main event guys, the guy holding your #2 title right now, and the guys holding your tag belts. Pay attention to your own TV show before you knock mine.

I call them guys who have put over people in TNA cleanly, guys who are willing to help, and pass the torch. That is more than I can say about HHH or any of the other washups in WWE.

And I pay attention to TNA but I pay attention to your tv show as well. A 44 year old man with a hip replacement is your world champion while your tag team champs in Big Show & Jericho are pushing 40. Oooh that's a big youth movement right there, huh?

What people remember about Orton is that he's been the most dominant figure in the WWE for the past two years. More dominant than HHH... more dominant than Cena... more dominant than HBK... more than Jericho or Big Show... more than Kane... Undertaker... Punk...

I guess you're right if you consider dominant as in running from a face every chance you get and getting beat up in a park lot all throughout an arena by a retired 60 year old man.

The guy can't be invincible... he has to lose sometimes. He had epic feuds with HHH and he won some and lost some. But what's the result? Exactly what I stated above.

Didn't you just sit here and claim Hernandez was buried for losing a match? Which way are we going to have it? Oh yeah, it's a double standard when it comes to you, right?

[clears throat]

Kurt Angle!!

<crickets>

Kurt Angle put over Samoa Joe and AJ Styles and didn't go back and get clean victories over them within a month or 2 months like a certain King of Kings in WWE would do. So EPIC FAIL

That's because everyone realized that Khali is absolute shit. But that didn't stop the WWE from giving him the ultimate push... CLEAN

.

So you're basically admitting that WWE pushes shit wrestlers which makes them a shit product?

Um, weren't we talking about pushes for young wrestlers from the past few years? Doesn't that count Hardy? Who gives a shit if he's not there now. He has become legendary. The WWE did their job.

He's not there anymore so until he comes back, he's out of the equation completely. It's like talking about RVD. It's no point. The WWE can't use him from home.

Wow... you're just trying to hard now. So 36 years is too old? I guess you can take Hernandez (36) out of your equation then. Nice one.

The difference is that Hernandez is new when it comes to establishing himself as a competitor so it makes him young unlike Edge who is constantly pushed with ridiculous number of meaningless world title runs and Batista who is injury prone and wants to retire but is forced by Vince to stay due to his inability to create new stars that are worth a damn.

That was 2007. He's been nowhere near the main event since then, unless you count this past Sunday. But I guess HIAC doesn't count since your standard of "main event material" only has to do with contending for the world championship, right?

Exactly and the last time Nash was in a world title match was in 2007 but yet you included him when trying to make a point, didn't you? Exactly. Double Standard again! Keep proving me right though.

So we went from guys over forty, to guys 3 or 4 years from turning 40, to guys near their forties.

I'm following the same format that you and your WWE universe who hate TNA follow. Do people like you and your section not call Team 3D washed up and past their prime and consider them veterans when there around the same ages as guys like Edge, Show, and Jericho. I'm giving you guys your own medicine.

Gee whiz... in 5 days it'll officially be 12 months. Guess you got me there. Someone get this kid a lollipop.

You made it 12 months, not me. I'm just following your lead.

I said he was a main event contender, moron. And I'm right. He competed with Kurt Angle on occasions prior to the MEM formation for a shot at the TNA championship. Not to mention that in the past year the Legends championship has been contested by men that have won the world title (Styles, Foley), so I figured he counted in that category. Shame on me, right?

That was in 2007, so that doesn't count, remember? Or with you it probably does, huh Double Standard Man?

And you're wrong. So far, the Legends title has only been defended by guys that were former world champions in any shape or form with the exception of Shane Sewell who competed for it. So the Legends title doesn't equate to TNA main even status. TRY AGAIN!

There have been 5 TNA champions in history, and when it came to reign-longevity, he came in 3rd place . I'd say that makes him one of the shortest reigning.

Samoa Joe held the title for 6 months, which came up to 182 days. That is a long time. Hell that is longer than some of Punk's. Orton's, Hardy, and Edge's title reigns put together.

Oh, and I guess you missed the part when I was proving that only one younger star broke through the glass ceiling besides AJ Styles.

Yeah and there's more ready to crack that ceiling, something you can't say about WWE right now with 2 world titles.

Besides the Samoa Joe/world champ/5 days thing, I'm still waiting for my first one.

Do I really have to run it down? I mean you owned yourself by trying to play down the significance of match orders on PPV. You talked about Legacy being a threat when they constantly get destroyed, Orton being dominant when he's been made to look like a chump, etc. I can go on and on.

I also proved the same thing with TNA when it came to Foley, Sting and Angle. You really don't think outside of the box, do you?

You didn't prove anything that's not already known. You tried to make it seem as if WWE was doing nothing but pushing a youth movement when that is completely false. WWE pushes old guys so much that you're immune to it. Again back to the double standard issue.

Actually, I proved that a world title reign is not the benchmark for a superstar push. It's quite possibly the end result, but superstars can be "pushed" in many other ways than giving them a title shot.

The same can be said about TNA also but would you use that approach with them? No. You know why? Because you're bias against them.

Yup, you just got owned again.

Umm, in order for something to happen again, it should at least take place once. EPIC FAIL!

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Lol at a Defense Attorney trying to use someone else's argument. You lost already.



Lol at emotional. No Mr. Lawyer boy, I'm having fun owning you all over.




Had Jeff Hardy not decided to leave, Punk would have never been champion and got that extra push. And it's sad that in order for WWE to start pushing guys, they have to have their back against the wall. That is sad.




Yes I did.




It antagonizes the babyface but it doesn't make the antagonists an actual threat.




I wouldn't have a problem with the match order unless it made sense. There was absolutely no reason for DX to close the show whatsoever. It's basically saying that a DX win is more important than the world title and world title match exchanges. DX/Legacy was not a bigger and more hyped feud than Orton/Cena or Taker/Punk. If anything DX, could've opened the show and had Orton/Cena close the show with Orton and Cena staring at each other like how they did at the end of their match. All HHH did was go last because he wanted to be the center of attention for the umpteenth time.




Or maybe your taste is just shit.




Lol at saying that they were carried on a stretcher while you're trying to claim them as some type of threat in the same breathe.



No



i never said that but that is the approach that TNA haters like you have towards their product with veterans going over lesser established talent from time to time. It's guys like you for the past year that claim that TNA is burying their young talent. So yes, I'm going to use that same approach in this argument as well.




So EY, Hernandez, and AJ aren't in better positions? Hell, even in terms of character traits, guys like Joe and Rhino are in better positions.



Hernandez got a nice rub from Sting in his first FOF match. He in turn got a clean victory over Samoa Joe on the 200th Impact Episode when he returned from injury. If you compare where Hernandez was last year in which he was nothing more than the big guy in LAX, then yes it's a huge jump to see him getting mic time and be uppermidcard.

And did you just say Hernandez was buried because he didn't win a match? Did I not say that Legacy was buried by HHH? Yet you're defending them when DX dismantled them and Hernandez always comes out looking strong. Oh the double standard. The double standard is here! Thanks for proving my point.



AJ has always been that GUY in TNA but everyone knows he stepped down for quite a bit. If you compare where he was last year to this year, it's a huge significance. Last year, he was straggling from midcard-uppermidcard in feuds with Kurt Angle over Karen and feuding with Frank Trigg. This year, he's world champ. That's a WORLD of difference.



Exactly EY was a joke a year ago who was scared of his own pyro. Now he's a leader of a heel stable looking for dominance. That is a huge upgrade. As a character, he's been developed greatly. All TNA has to do now is put him over as an inring worker and he'll be sold well.

So yes, in all 4 guys have been elevated hugely and can easily transition to uppercard/main event which is more than can be said for the "elevated" WWE talent.



So what, he's still a former world champion. 2 days or not. And he's no more shit than Randy Orton.



Again, so what. A former world champion is a former world champion



No one would take him seriously? Umm, speak for yourself.



Lol, I can say the same thing about Kane. Wasn't Kane a world champion for 1 day? Yet until this day WWE can bring him to main event and uppermidcard when they please based on that 1 accomplishment he had 12 years ago. U always need a supporting cast and TNA has that. Maybe you're the one whose confused as to how things work pal.




No, 4 elevated guys and 3 guys on lay-away. That is very good, whereas the WWE, the company with over 6 hrs of tv programming and 2 world titles has only elevated 1 guy this whole year who has been booked as a joke and a fluke since his first world title win as a face and a tag team division made of make-shift teams. Congrats WWE. Keep pushing your posterboys for steroids and your old men over the young talent that u so desperately claim you're having a hard time developing.




Oh really, tell that to your WWE mark friends who invade TNA conversations with "_____ and ____ needs to hang it up. ______ is past his prime. ____ is washed up. If you did that, we wouldn't be in this convo now, would we?




None of those guys have broke the ceiling to main event status or even uppercard with the exception of CM PUNK. EPIC FAIL!



Umm, you and your WWE marks made that claim first. Not me.



Yeah because Rey Mysterio is the only worker in WWE to wrestle 300 days a year. TRY AGAIN!




And none of them counted because with the exception of 1, none of those guys are uppercard status or main event. Try again!



No idiot, in the WWE world, they're having problems breaking in new stars and main event guys. Pushing guys to midcard and a little above midcard isn't solving their problem. TNA has their future main event guys covered as well as their midcard. WWE only has pushed Punk while the rest remain in midcard heaven.



I call them guys who have put over people in TNA cleanly, guys who are willing to help, and pass the torch. That is more than I can say about HHH or any of the other washups in WWE.

And I pay attention to TNA but I pay attention to your tv show as well. A 44 year old man with a hip replacement is your world champion while your tag team champs in Big Show & Jericho are pushing 40. Oooh that's a big youth movement right there, huh?




I guess you're right if you consider dominant as in running from a face every chance you get and getting beat up in a park lot all throughout an arena by a retired 60 year old man.



Didn't you just sit here and claim Hernandez was buried for losing a match? Which way are we going to have it? Oh yeah, it's a double standard when it comes to you, right?



Kurt Angle put over Samoa Joe and AJ Styles and didn't go back and get clean victories over them within a month or 2 months like a certain King of Kings in WWE would do. So EPIC FAIL


.

So you're basically admitting that WWE pushes shit wrestlers which makes them a shit product?



He's not there anymore so until he comes back, he's out of the equation completely. It's like talking about RVD. It's no point. The WWE can't use him from home.



The difference is that Hernandez is new when it comes to establishing himself as a competitor so it makes him young unlike Edge who is constantly pushed with ridiculous number of meaningless world title runs and Batista who is injury prone and wants to retire but is forced by Vince to stay due to his inability to create new stars that are worth a damn.



Exactly and the last time Nash was in a world title match was in 2007 but yet you included him when trying to make a point, didn't you? Exactly. Double Standard again! Keep proving me right though.



I'm following the same format that you and your WWE universe who hate TNA follow. Do people like you and your section not call Team 3D washed up and past their prime and consider them veterans when there around the same ages as guys like Edge, Show, and Jericho. I'm giving you guys your own medicine.




You made it 12 months, not me. I'm just following your lead.




That was in 2007, so that doesn't count, remember? Or with you it probably does, huh Double Standard Man?

And you're wrong. So far, the Legends title has only been defended by guys that were former world champions in any shape or form with the exception of Shane Sewell who competed for it. So the Legends title doesn't equate to TNA main even status. TRY AGAIN!



Samoa Joe held the title for 6 months, which came up to 182 days. That is a long time. Hell that is longer than some of Punk's. Orton's, Hardy, and Edge's title reigns put together.



Yeah and there's more ready to crack that ceiling, something you can't say about WWE right now with 2 world titles.




Do I really have to run it down? I mean you owned yourself by trying to play down the significance of match orders on PPV. You talked about Legacy being a threat when they constantly get destroyed, Orton being dominant when he's been made to look like a chump, etc. I can go on and on.



You didn't prove anything that's not already known. You tried to make it seem as if WWE was doing nothing but pushing a youth movement when that is completely false. WWE pushes old guys so much that you're immune to it. Again back to the double standard issue.



The same can be said about TNA also but would you use that approach with them? No. You know why? Because you're bias against them.



Umm, in order for something to happen again, it should at least take place once. EPIC FAIL!

1. Do you understand what being elevated means? What was Legacy doing before feuding with DX? Absolutely nothing. They have become elevated while battling DX and were a legitimate threat. Legacy was not buried or anything of the sort after their loss last week.

2. Why would you want to leave the fans in a bad mood for a heel to close out the PPV. Title changes in which the heel wins doesn't usually happen on PPV's especially Wrestlemania. Either DX/Legacy or Taker/Punk was going to close the show and it's as simple as that.

3. Let's look at the TNA champions. How old are Booker and Steiner again? I don't think Nash or Foley are spring chickens either.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Let's look at the WWE superstars who have been put on another level this year....
Kofi
Miz
Swagger
Morrison
Ziggler
Ryder
Legacy

What about TNA you say?
Morgan
Hernandez
Young

Young isn't believable as member of the World Elite after being a comedy act for years and Hernandez isn't world championship material at this point so you're only left with Morgan who is good but not great.

WWE has done a better job of elevating younger superstars than TNA when veterans are concerned. The veterans of TNA dominate their show more than the veterans of WWE.

Whatever you say. On Smackdown, it's about Punk and Undertaker and on RAW, DX hogs the spotlight so don't sit there and tell me TNA vets dominate more than WWE. And even if they do, in TNA it's different because their business model is different. They feature vets because their reason is that they want to attract casuals whereas in WWE, DX reunites for the hell of it and doesn't need anymore attention.

And you say, Young isn't believable. That's your opinion. It's not a fact.

And you say Hernandez or no one else but Morgan is ready for championship material, right? So basically, you're basing guys WWE have elevated based on who you feel is championship material. If that's the case, you don't even have a list because Kofi, Miz, Swagger, Morrison, Ziggler, Ryder, and especially Legacy aren't ready to hold any title on their respective brands except maybe Ryder who is on ECW. The only person WWE has elevated into world champion material is Punk and he's been booked like a scrub. After that there is no one else.

At least in TNA, AJ is champ and you've got future contenders in Hernandez, Morgan, Young, Lashley, etc.

Besides Punk, there is no other young person ready to compete with him for the world title.

So umm yeah, TNA is leading in that department. Try again pal!

 

[TellMeWhy]

1. Do you understand what being elevated means? What was Legacy doing before feuding with DX? Absolutely nothing. They have become elevated while battling DX and were a legitimate threat. Legacy was not buried or anything of the sort after their loss last week.

Yup. Before Legacy was following Orton around like 2 clones and before that they were getting their asses handed to them by Shane McMahon. And now, they're getting destroyed by DX. And you're right, they're not being buried, they're getting the Spirit Squad treatment which is worse.

2. Why would you want to leave the fans in a bad mood for a heel to close out the PPV. Title changes in which the heel wins doesn't usually happen on PPV's especially Wrestlemania. Either DX/Legacy or Taker/Punk was going to close the show and it's as simple as that.

Uh has the WWE not ended PPV's with Edge winning a title over a babyface or with Orton winning a title or with Hardy or someone like Cena laid out? And HHH as a heel has walked out of WM in the main event as a heel champion before.

3. Let's look at the TNA champions. How old are Booker and Steiner again? I don't think Nash or Foley are spring chickens either.

Lol, back to TNA again but in the WWE yard Taker and HHH hold world titles while guys like Big Show & Jericho hold the belt. Double Standard???

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Whatever you say. On Smackdown, it's about Punk and Undertaker and on RAW, DX hogs the spotlight so don't sit there and tell me TNA vets dominate more than WWE. And even if they do, in TNA it's different because their business model is different. They feature vets because their reason is that they want to attract casuals whereas in WWE, DX reunites for the hell of it and doesn't need anymore attention.

And you say, Young isn't believable. That's your opinion. It's not a fact.

And you say Hernandez or no one else but Morgan is ready for championship material, right? So basically, you're basing guys WWE have elevated based on who you feel is championship material. If that's the case, you don't even have a list because Kofi, Miz, Swagger, Morrison, Ziggler, Ryder, and especially Legacy aren't ready to hold any title on their respective brands except maybe Ryder who is on ECW. The only person WWE has elevated into world champion material is Punk and he's been booked like a scrub. After that there is no one else.

At least in TNA, AJ is champ and you've got future contenders in Hernandez, Morgan, Young, Lashley, etc.

Besides Punk, there is no other young person ready to compete with him for the world title.

So umm yeah, TNA is leading in that department. Try again pal!

I could have sworn that Cena and Orton person are on RAW or did they leave with out me knowing. DX is only on for like twenty minutes on RAW each night and there are 120 minutes of RAW. 20/120 = 1/6 = 16%. By my recollection 16% is not more than 50% so they are not dominating. Kofi, Miz, Swagger, and Bourne are on all the time and you have tag and diva matches. It's okay if you haven't watched RAW in a while so you don't know these things.

On Smackdown you have the Melina/McCool feud, Ziggler and Morrison battling as well as McIntyre and R-Truth. And we can't forget about Jericho and Big Show. Undertaker and Punk are hardly dominating.

Doesn't Morrison have a title on Smackdown? Unless it's a imaginary title. Ziggler has had good matches with Morrison and Mysterio so he is more than ready to hold one. Miz won the United States title Monday and I believe Kofi is going to move up to the main event sooner or later. What has Hernandez done lately to make me think he's going to win a title? An win over an overweight and not-so-good Samoa Joe. That is real impressive and what about Eric Young? Who he has beaten lately? I'll take Bashir over him as World Elite leader any day of the week.

Don't try so hard next time.

 

[TellMeWhy]

I could have sworn that Cena and Orton person are on RAW or did they leave with out me knowing. DX is only on for like twenty minutes on RAW each night and there are 120 minutes of RAW. 20/120 = 1/6 = 16%. By my recollection 16% is not more than 50% so they are not dominating. Kofi, Miz, Swagger, and Bourne are on all the time and you have tag and diva matches. It's okay if you haven't watched RAW in a while so you don't know these things.

On Smackdown you have the Melina/McCool feud, Ziggler and Morrison battling as well as McIntyre and R-Truth. And we can't forget about Jericho and Big Show. Undertaker and Punk are hardly dominating.

Doesn't Morrison have a title on Smackdown? Unless it's a imaginary title. Ziggler has had good matches with Morrison and Mysterio so he is more than ready to hold one. Miz won the United States title Monday and I believe Kofi is going to move up to the main event sooner or later. What has Hernandez done lately to make me think he's going to win a title? An win over an overweight and not-so-good Samoa Joe. That is real impressive and what about Eric Young? Who he has beaten lately? I'll take Bashir over him as World Elite leader any day of the week.

Don't try so hard next time.

I can say the same for TNA.

In TNA, you've got Suicide/Dinero, you've got the MEM appearing on camera with the World Elite, you've got Morgan feuding with Angle, you've got the Knockouts, you've got Abyss/Foley angle. You've got the Rhino/3D stuff. Hernandez feuds with the world elite, You've got Sting/AJ, you've got the Tara/Kong program and ODB in a little feud. You've got the KO tag titles with Sarita and Taylor. You have a new version of the Beautiful People. You've got your veteran programs going on in TNA but they all involve upcoming talent. So yeah, the show isn't mostly dominated by veterans like you tried to make it out to be and as a result I tried to make WWE out to be the same way. Just like the WWE, there are tons of programs going on in TNA but yet you keep trying to paint a picture like it's a veteran show like how most WWE fans and TNA haters do so I did the same thing. And at least in your mind, there's a slight chance Hernandez can go for the title. On Smackdown, you've got Punk but after Punk what other new and upcoming star can take his place to take on Undertaker? anyone? On Raw, you've got Orton and Cena but who else after that? what other young star is there and is ready to challenge Cena or Orton for the belt?

You might want to think about all of that. Try harder.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Yup. Before Legacy was following Orton around like 2 clones and before that they were getting their asses handed to them by Shane McMahon. And now, they're getting destroyed by DX. And you're right, they're not being buried, they're getting the Spirit Squad treatment which is worse.



Uh has the WWE not ended PPV's with Edge winning a title over a babyface or with Orton winning a title or with Hardy or someone like Cena laid out? And HHH as a heel has walked out of WM in the main event as a heel champion before.



Lol, back to TNA again but in the WWE yard Taker and HHH hold world titles while guys like Big Show & Jericho hold the belt. Double Standard???

It seems to me that you're uneducated about this DX and Legacy feud. If DX were destroying Legacy, then they would have beaten them at Summerslam, Breaking Point, and HIAC.

Breaking News: Legacy won at Breaking Point. Are HHH and HBK Legacy? No they are not. Call the presses.

On RAW, who was beating down who? Was it Paul Levesque and Michael Hickenbottom beating down Legacy? It was the other way around. Look at that. They are not getting the Spirit Squad treatment because SS didn't do anything against DX but Legacy has.

I suggest you watch the DX/Legacy feud again and then come to back to me with something that resembles a correct statement.

I can't wait to see Rhodes and DiBiase lose to Duggan and the Brooklyn Brawler. Watch out Jerishow

 

[johnbragg]

You've got your main event guys in Undertaker, Batista, HHH, and HBK(All old farts btw) and then you've got your 3 young stars in Cena, Orton and Edge. If all those guys died in a plane crash at once, what would you be left with:

Wait, if you take Orton and Cena in a plane crash then my plane crash takes Angle and AJ Styles. One of the key points here is that WWE has been able to build up young guys in the past&#8212;like Cena and Orton&#8212;and can continue to do so, like with Punk and Legacy and John Morrison and MVP (and Jeff Hardy).

Whereas TNA has built up one guy&#8212;AJ Styles&#8212;to the point where if TNA went away he would have any value to WWE. Samoa Joe would get signed as well, but I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s any better off than he was when he left ROH. Everyone else would be working ROH, working Japan or competing with Goldust and Mike Knox and Evan Bourne for TV time and hoping they aren't the next ones to get Future Endeavored.

That is something TNA is attempting to do and something WWE should follow suit instead of having their spotlight hungry veterans continue to stay on top for decades and bury talent.

Let&#8217;s not talk decades. Let&#8217;s just talk about history since TNA opened in June 2002. Of Raw&#8217;s top ten or eleven guys, three were recognizable names in 2002&#8212;HHH, HBK, Big Show. The rest? Cena, Orton, Rhodes & DIbiase, MVP, Miz, Kofi and Swagger. Of Smackdown&#8217;s top 11 guys, 3 had been World Champs (Y2J, Kane, and UT),4 had held a midcard title (Edge, Matt Hardy, Mysterio, and Finlay in WCW), and 4 (Punk, Morrison, Ziggler and&#8212;Batista) weren&#8217;t on the radar in 2002.

Let&#8217;s look at TNA&#8217;s top guys. Angle, Sting, Nash, Booker, Steiner, Foley. All World Champions by 2002, and except for Angle they were all already past their prime. I&#8217;ll leave out Jarrett, although I bet he&#8217;ll be back before Edge is. Your five young guys are AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Morgan, Hernandez and I&#8217;ll give you Eric Young because you&#8212;and the Impact Zone&#8212;love him so.

Remind me again which company you&#8217;re saying doesn&#8217;t develop young talent?

Before you talk about who buries talent, tell me who Booker and Steiner and Nash have elevated while they were in TNA. Angle and Foley have elevated or tried to elevate talent, but usually TNA's booking flushes it down the toilet. (Look, it's Jay Lethal!)

He lost the title because he's in the "doghouse". A company having trouble creating stars is burying talent for frivolous reasons instead of doing the right thing and trying to solidify him.

Or, a company that sees a possible long term future for a major star with an attitude problem is trying to educate that wrestler so he isn&#8217;t a cancer backstage when his time to be number one star comes and he ups and does things like refuse to put over Matt Morgan on TV.

Punk isn&#8217;t buried. If I were the booker, I would have given him a clean submission win over Undertaker at Breaking Point, but losing the title doesn&#8217;t mean he&#8217;s buried. He&#8217;s just deferred. He will be back and will be world champion again within 6 months.

Legacy has been booked as a joke and that 1 victory at summerslam along with a little bit of promo time doesn't make them a threat son. Try again.

I was a big skeptic of the DX reunion, and I predicted that DX would "Spirit Squad" Legacy. But Legacy gave DX all they could handle, on PPV and on Raw. Dibiase and Rhodes both rank a lot higher than they did before. Imagine that there was a No. 1 contenders match for the tag titles between Legacy and Batista & Mysterio. Would you be surprised if Legacy won? I wouldn&#8217;t. Neither would most of the fanbase. Before the DX feud, Rhodes and Dibiase were Orton&#8217;s oily buttboys. Now they&#8217;re solid upper midcard, and could be competing for world titles in a few months with the right break--exactly where Hernandez is.

When do you ever have your biggest feud involving a world title open your PPV and then have one of your least important feuds close a PPV?

One answer is, when you&#8217;ve locked yourself into having three HIAC matches for no real reason.

How is DX-Legacy one of the least important feuds? If, say, Sting & AJ Styles were feuding with for four or five PPVs with British Invasion without a title at stake, would the blowoff not be a PPV main event? DX are two of WWE&#8217;s biggest stars. That makes it a major feud.

You always open up your PPV with midcarders.

That&#8217;s traditional, but I&#8217;m open to the argument that it would be better to kick off with something big.

If Angle-Morgan opened Bound For Glory with a 3-star match, would that be TNA burying Angle and Morgan or would it be TNA being innovative and trying something new?

We'd have AJ Styles, Joe, Hernandez, Matt Morgan, Bobby Lashley (maybe), Rhino(former world champion), Abyss(former world champion), and maybe even some WE members will be elevated.

You&#8217;d have Styles, who is finally getting some shine after being wasted for the last few years. You still have Joe, despite Russo-booking his face credibility away with a nonsensical heel turn. You may have Hernandez, but he&#8217;s going to need building at someone&#8217;s expense at this point. You have Morgan, who is working out nicely. As for Lashley, gee, TNA did a great job of developing him. Oh, no, wait, he's a WWE Retread. Rhino? Seriously? Former World Champion, yes, in the way that Big Show and Kane and Great Khali are former world champions&#8212;a way that the company prefers to forget. Abyss, if TNA can ever get him out of the Combat Zone Wrestling/IWA Midsouth division, would be a main eventer. But can he work a match without Flaming Barbed Wire Tables of Blood?

What will actually happen? TNA will use Styles and Joe and Morgan and Hernandez (Dixie Carter is high on him). You'll bring back Jarrett, bring in Ken Anderson, keep Foley wresting until he walks like Terry Funk, and that&#8217;s about it.

Jeff Hardy doesn&#8217;t count because he&#8217;s out of WWE and maybe going to jail&#8212;not a quote

It counts if you&#8217;re talking about who is developing young stars. WWE gave Jeff Hardy a huge push, a world title, etc.

They feature vets because their reason is that they want to attract casuals whereas in WWE, DX reunites for the hell of it and doesn't need anymore attention.

BUZZZ! Wrong. TNA lets MEM hog airtime, and WWE puts DX merchandise plugs on, because they appeal to casual fans. The difference is that, this time, WWE created two new credible stars out of the DX run while MEM just let the WCW veterans hog the spotlight while the company fails to build young stars (until about six weeks ago). At least they&#8217;re experienced at it.

Title changes in which the heel wins doesn't usually happen on PPV's

Uh has the WWE not ended PPV's with Edge winning a title over a babyface or with Orton winning a title or with Hardy or someone like Cena laid out? And HHH as a heel has walked out of WM in the main event as a heel champion before

&#8220;Doesn&#8217;t usually happen&#8221; != &#8220;Never&#8221; But thanks for playing, Skippy.