WCW: Boston Sub-Regional

[ad21k]

So are you saying that if matches aren't memorable or historic, they're not great. If so that's an illogical way of thinking. The Benoit/Angle feud was for the WWE Title and involved two great wreslters who put on extraordinary matches. Thank Randy Orton for that HBK/Cena match or that match would have never happened.

If people don't remember matches then they really can't be all that great. As for thanking Orton, Cena/HBK was bound to happen at somepoint, Cena has been through most of the top stars in WWE at some point or another.

You say Cena can adapt to every opponent....So can Jericho, Edge, HHH, Taker, and countless others. Benoit has the endurance to go with anybody for long periods of time like Cena and has two submission finishers in his arsenal so Benoit can hang with anybody regardless of style and size.

Cena always comes through on top, it doesn't matter if it's size- Khali, stength- HHH, technical ability- Angle, dirty tactics- Edge etc. My point was Cena has overcome every challange put in front of him, including wrestlers better than Benoit, so why would Benoit be so different?!

 

[ANGLE FAN]

When John Cena is on his game he is nearly impossible to beat..that is a fact.

and so is GOLDBERG.

He's proven time and time again he can beat technically sound wrestlers like HBK and HHH and Edge and Orton, and that he can beat guys bigger than him like Khali and UmaNga.

Goldberg has beaten the likes of big powerful wrestlers like hogan, nash etc. he was the one who JACKHAMMERED THE GIANT (big show).
He no sells offense way more than cena does.

Goldberg beat so many technically gifted guys in his career in short squashes in WWE.

Even in his first match on nitro he kicked out of BILL DEMOTT/ GENERAL RUCTIONs (i forgot what name he was using at that time) finisher.

So in nutshell GOLDBERGs resume of victories against technical guys (with the exception of bret hart) is no less impressive than cena. And he has beaten BIGGER, STRONGER, HEAVIER opponents than cena.
Not only GOLDBERG beats them but overpowers them , dominate them throughout the match and finishes them off in lesser time than CENAs theme song plays on his enterance in some instances.

Cena seems to thrive in the big match envirnment

Not always. He lost at NO way out in 2009. Lost in a triple threat at wrestlemania in 2008. LOST to batista at Summerslam in 2008.
Lost a parking lot brawl to JBL in 2008.
So much for cena doing well in big match environment.
He USED to sneak away wins in big matches but considering his recent record, in overall career, he wins some and loses some.

]and when his back is up against the wall. He is an F U...not Attitude Adjuster, away from a victory.

How many guys haven been able to suplex, powerslam, chokeslam, military press or fireman carry GOLDBERG or lift him over their shoulders in some way, let alone beating goldberg in a match with such a finishing move.

Him and Benoit could be a controversially filled encounter with posters for obvious reasons. I just cant see Benoit finishing of Cena in the big match envirnment.

BUT I can. He made THE ROCK, HHH , BIG SHOW, BROCK LESNAR, SID VISCIOUS tap out IN BIG MATCH situations. These men werent known to submit before benoit made them to.

For much of his career, Benoit was a mid to upper level carder where as Cena has been Main Eventing for quite a few years now. When the pressure is on I'll take John Cena in this sub region.

We all know what happens when pressure is on Cena. dont we? Or do i need to request you to re-watch ONS 2006.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

Cena always comes through on top,

ore often then not CENA comes on top. but not ALWAYS.

My point was Cena has overcome every challange put in front of him,

NOT TRUE. He accepted JBLs CHALLENGE for a parking lo brawl but lost.
and thats not the first parking lot brawl CHALLENGE that he lost. He earlier lost one to eddie on smackdown as well. He also lost to carlito who CHALLENGED him for the US title on smackdown.
So thats the story goes about CENA and CHALLENGE. He wins some, loses some.

including wrestlers better than Benoit, so why would Benoit be so different?!

Which wreslers are better than benoit? (or should i say in the same league as benoit) BRET HART, STING, FLAIR, EDDIE, MALENKO, ANGLE , DYNAMITE KID ?
Apart fom ANGLE cena hasnt beaten anyone on consistent basis.
He hasnt even wrestled more than half of the list or maybe other great past wrestlers which i forgot to add to this list.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

Cena always comes through on top, it doesn't matter if it's size- Khali, stength- HHH, technical ability- Angle, dirty tactics- Edge etc. My point was Cena has overcome every challange put in front of him, including wrestlers better than Benoit, so why would Benoit be so different?!

I am trying to make sense of your post. If cena always comes out on top whomever the opponent is, whichever wrestling promotion it might be, whichever arena the matches are held in, whatever the stipulation might be why even bother thinking about it. Its JOHN CENA and as stated earlier by ad21k

Cena always comes through on top

This is quite possibly the best arguement of this whole damn tournament.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

First, theres Goldberg big, strong an powerful meaning he can just plain out muscle Cena, Benoit and Nash. The there is Nash who, if he hit you with that Powerbomb then it was over. he has beaten Goldberg before (yes with a little help with Scott hall), would maybe be able to beat Cena and could sure as hell nail benoit. Then there is cena, a deffinit favourite with it being in Boston mass. He has the ability to beat both Goldberg and Nash on any given day and has beat Benoit several times. Finally, we get to Benoit who could beat any of these men with the Crossface, Nuff' said. Benoit makes nash tap.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

John Cena has never backed down from a challenge, and has usually come out on top every tough match he's ever had.

Cena never backs down from a challenge but as far as tough matches go he wins some, loses some. ELIMINATION CHAMBER, PARKING LOT BRAWL, matches agaist tough opponents ( batista, lesnar ,orton , HHH ). he wins some, loses some.

Goldberg, during his prime and without the "real life" stories, was everything you'd want in an unstoppable monster.

GOLDBERG was made a laughing stock by jericho who humiliated and embaressed him and and literally rub his nose in the dirt backstage. Should that cloud my judgement when voting? Absolutely not. Because as far as i interpret the rules KEYFABE is an important factor in deciding the outcome of a match (if not THE most important factor)

Goldberg's matches didn't last very long, at all, and that's normally because regardless who he faced.. he had the shear raw power to end the match quickly. Never thought a mere suplex could be used as effectively as Bill used it, but it was.

agreed 100% with you.

I think John Cena will still overcome the power of Goldberg.

I beg to differ. Cena couldnt overcome the power or LESNAR and BATISTA. Though its highly subjective assesment, GOLDBERG is at least as power ful as these two men (and more powerful in my personel opinion)

I mean, Cena's overcame the power of Big Show,

So did GOLDBERG. While Cena earned a hard fought victory, GOLDBERG absolutely dominated the match against the BIG SHOW ( the giant in WCW).

And if you decide to use the "thinking" ability Goldberg used, well Cena's also defeated Triple H., which more than doubles any "thought" Goldberg ever had.

1. a typical goldberg match is too short for any thinking to play a decisive role.
2. perhaps two of his slightly longer matches are against ROCK and HOGAN. both are smart enough Thinking wrestlers. (if thinking includes ring psycology and ring awareness and pacing a match as components).
End result. Loss for ROCK, Loss for hogan.

Meanwhile, he can out wrestle Cena, but likely would fall to the crowd and overall environment.

Who is familiar with the WCW environment - CENA or BENOIT?
Who gets clueless and fumbles in an unfimiliar environment?
Who has won the SUPER J CUP in japan, a totally unseen and unfimiliar environment?

Finally, Kevin Nash is surely fucked. He's tall, not very fast, and his power will be matched. He's, if anything, a jobber right now.

I suggest you do not vote based on KEVIN NASH , the member of MAIN EVENT MAFIA. Either vote for DIESEL or KEVIN NASH of NWO BLACK AND WHITE or the leader of the WOLFPACK.
I think that we have to vote assuming the wrestler in his PRIME. I leave it to you to use your discretion to decide at which stage of his career KEVIN NASH was in his prime.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

One of the most interesting brackets just got more interesting. Goldberg was nothing short of a god in his heyday. The STFU is absolutely worthless here. All of a sudden Cena is in real trouble. Goldberg may be almost a joke now, but when he hit his stride he was tough to stop. Cena can take a lot, but I don't think he can take a spear and jackhammer, at least not in WCW. I'll go with Goldberg here in an upset.

Agreed with your post entirely except the last line. GOLDBERG winning over cena is NOT an upset. IF Cena wins over GOLDBERG in a WCW arena thats an upset and most likely a SCREWJOB by blind cena marks paying less regard to the tournament rules than they should be doing.

 

[ad21k]

Agreed with your post entirely except the last line. GOLDBERG winning over cena is NOT an upset. IF Cena wins over GOLDBERG in a WCW arena thats an upset and most likely a SCREWJOB by blind cena marks paying less regard to the tournament rules than they should be doing.

Whatever way you look at it Cena should go over Goldberg.

If you look at it from the point of view of booking, then Cena is bigger than Goldberg ever was so he's going to go over Goldberg.

If you decide based on wrestling ability then, Cena wins easily.

If you base your vote on the harder worker then Cena wins easily.

If you base it on who was more entertaining the Cena wins easily.

If you base your vote on attitude the Cena wins easily.

If you decide based on physical attributes then Cena would win.

If you decide based on who was the biggest draw then Cena wins.

Cena also has home town advantage, which further negates Goldberg's chances.

The main argument seems to be however that Goldberg should go over Cena because he had a storyline where he went undefeated for a long time, because it somehow gives him credibility. This is stupid as there are tons of wrestlers throughout history who have had long undefeated runs, sure non as long as Goldberg's, and Goldberg did beat some big stars. But be under no illusion Hogan was still the major star in WCW, and if WCW had Cena, then Cena would be the major star. Anyone who votes for Goldberg is putting far too much emphasis on technicalities, and not looking at who is the better wrestler and therefore the most likely to win.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Agreed with your post entirely except the last line. GOLDBERG winning over cena is NOT an upset. IF Cena wins over GOLDBERG in a WCW arena thats an upset and most likely a SCREWJOB by blind cena marks paying less regard to the tournament rules than they should be doing.

Why, because the entrance platform is even with the ring!!!???

Did you read the differences between a WWE and a WCW region match? No difference. At all. Aside from the entrance platform.

Does the presence of that platform make the advantage for Goldberg that insurmountable? Absolutely not. These two are an even 50/50. No upset can occur, because these two guys, no matter where, are spot equals.

 

[NSL]

Whatever way you look at it Cena should go over Goldberg.

If you look at it from the point of view of booking, then Cena is bigger than Goldberg ever was so he's going to go over Goldberg.

I'd love to see your philosophy on this one. Goldberg went undefeated for how long? He was going over anyone and everyone, and unlike current monsters in WWE, he was beating legit opponents, not Jimmy Wang Yang or Shannon Moore.

If you decide based on wrestling ability then, Cena wins easily.

I'll give you this one. Cena is a better wrestler. But, not even he will get up from a Spear/Jackhammer combo.

If you base your vote on the harder worker then Cena wins easily.

Only because Goldberg's matches were over too quick.

If you base it on who was more entertaining the Cena wins easily.

No. This is perspective only, and in my opinion, Goldberg was more entertaining. His entire entrance, from the locker room to the entrance ramp, lasted twice as long as his matches, yet everyone wanted to see. Like Tyson, he was huge for how quick he could take out his opponents. Unlike Tyson, people still paid $40 a month to watch him do it, and he never had to bite someone's ear off.

If you base your vote on attitude the Cena wins easily.

"Who's next?!"

That's attitude. Not, "You can't see me!". I have a 5 year old son. He says that everytime he closes his eyes when I'm mad at him. It's cute. Not attitude.

If you decide based on physical attributes then Cena would win.

Cena is strong. Goldberg is stronger. There's a reason the Jackhammer was the most feared move for a long time. The FU/Attitude Adjustment/Throwback isn't feared, because the names all suck, and it's a less powerful version of the Jackhammer.

If you decide based on who was the biggest draw then Cena wins.

Goldberg had to go up against a combo of Hogan, Austin, Rock, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, the nWo, DX, Sting...

Cena faces some competition, but he's got the advantage of there being only one top company, and 2 separate shows.

Cena also has home town advantage, which further negates Goldberg's chances.

Goldberg could Jackhammereveryone in the stands, and still win.

The main argument seems to be however that Goldberg should go over Cena because he had a storyline where he went undefeated for a long time, because it somehow gives him credibility.

Please tell me a scenario where Goldberg's booking would be a bad thing. Like I said earlier, he wasn't beating puny cruiserweights.

This is stupid as there are tons of wrestlers throughout history who have had long undefeated runs, sure non as long as Goldberg's,

Thanks for helping my point.

and Goldberg did beat some big stars.

Thanks again.

But be under no illusion Hogan was still the major star in WCW, and if WCW had Cena, then Cena would be the major star.

Did you just say Cena is a bigger star than Hogan?

Anyone who votes for Goldberg is putting far too much emphasis on technicalities, and not looking at who is the better wrestler and therefore the most likely to win.

Aren't the technicalities, what makes him a better wrestler?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I respect Cena's in-ring ability and dedication in the ring but I don't think he can beat Goldberg.

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I don't think Cena can get up from that. One spear and jackhammer and he's pretty much done.

 

[Jane]

I think it's going to be Goldberg. You can make the case that this guy can defeat anybody and anything that gets in his way, and it's pretty much true. The guy is unstoppable and he's going to win this region. I don't know how he'll do in the rest of WCW, but he will win this sub. Personally I would prefer Benoit to win, but he probably won't considering the history. So we'll have to see.

 

[Blade]

I'm thinking Cena over Goldberg...
I think that Cena has simply beaten more good opponents than Goldberg has. But that's just me. Although Goldberg has now made this sub region much more interesting.

 

[NSL]

The Franchise was anohter guy I planned on pushing a little in this tournament, but it seems like a combination of a bad bracket and a bad company draw, have killed his chances. He was a pure wrestler in a hardcore company, and only used weapons because they were allowed. he could've done bigger things in the other companies, but got overlooked because of his time in ECW. He'll win the first round match without a problem, but getting past Goldberg just isn't going to happen.

This whole bracket, and potentially WCW, belongs to Goldberg. Cena, Nash, Benoit, and Douglas are al lgood competitors, but Goldberg is a beast. The only thing that will slow him down, anywhere, is not having the larger fanbase against his opponent. Cena winning wouldn't be an upset, but Goldberg would be the favorite going in.

 

[Rusty]

Man, this is a tough round. Kevin Nash was decent back in the day, but I think he can't compare to the other 3 here. People seem to be talking about Chris Benoit as if he was a legitimate main eventer or something. The guy won the World Heavyweight Championship once and lost it not long after. And then he was hardly near the World Title again and began putting over the mid-carders. So to me, this comes down to two men.

Goldberg and John Cena. That would be an epic match. Both are great, one of them was very dominant but wasn't around for a long time. The other, is basically the next Stone Cold Steve Austin. It would be a great match, but I think Cena in his prime is more succesful than Goldberg in his prime. Cena would kickout of a spear and fight back to win with an FU (Attitude Adjuster).

So my vote goes to the underdog Cena here, but only just.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Goldberg would be a tough out as would The Franchise. I think Goldberg would beat Cena so it's a decision between him and Benoit. It all depends on how long the match goes. A short match would benefit Goldberg and a long one would benefit Benoit. This is the toughest one for me to decide so I will wait to see who else is put here.

 

[Shadowmancer]

This is the region that I will be pushing the King of Old school, this shall be fun. I am pretty sure I can get him past the first round but whether I can get him past Big Sexy I don't know. I will still be pushing for Corino to win this thing.

 

[Shocky]

Damn, the top half of this is about to explode. If the top seeds hold out, you're looking at a big time new school vs. old school battle in round two with Cena vs. Gagne. Goldberg should have no problem getting to the winner of that matchup, but then what happens then? I honestly think Cena is in real trouble of not getting out of this sub regional. If gagne is a bump in a road, then Goldberg is a brick wall. I honestly think If Goldberg vs. Cena happens, Cena's run ends.

Mr. Kennedy being in this thing anything above a 64 seed is ridiculous. The guy is beyond awful and should be gone in round one, then definently round two with Benoit. Corino has a shot knocking out Kevn Nash as their is definentely an anti bigman sentiment out there. However, I think Benoit faces off against Goldberg, and I think Goldberg wins this.

 

[CENAtion]

This region does have alot of what if's and can's in it to say the least. Can people shake their image of Benoit and his last few days alive? Will Cena get the new age fans to back him? Will Gagne get any love outside of old school fans? How could a possible Cena vs. Goldberg or Benoit matchup play out?

I'm pressed for time but i think in the past year John Cena has won enough fans to get him through this region. A year ago, he probably doesnt make it through here. Cena has proven that he is just as strong as anyone so that negates Goldberg having a strenght advantage. Cena is almost more athletic than Goldberg and unlike goldberg, Cena has some mat skills in the STF or STFU.

I really think this is going to come down to the lightning rod matchup of Chris Benoit vs. John Cena. The Benoit factor as it is called will draw controversy, and Cena always has his lovers and haters. I still just believe over the past year John Cena has won enough fans to get himi through this sub region.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

John Cena and Bill Goldberg look to meet before the top half of this even comes to a head. If John Cena loves unspeakable challenges in real life, I suppose it's only fair and rather ironic that he's going to have his hands full in this tournament.

I feel rather sorry for Shane Douglas. I was hoping he'd get spotted well in this thing, and it looks like he'll be one and done before anything. Chris Benoit's distance will depend on how people vote for him. Fairly, or judgmental.

Steve Corino definately got a nice start for Shadow, as this is the mecca of pure wrestling and Corino is as pure as the come.

 

[NSL]

This is the region that I will be pushing the King of Old school, this shall be fun. I am pretty sure I can get him past the first round but whether I can get him past Big Sexy I don't know. I will still be pushing for Corino to win this thing.

I wanted to push Corino. I really did. The WCW Region is not a problem for him, but Nash is. Corino should wipe out anyone he faces in the first round, but Nash is just too big to overcome. He'll make a nice showing, but Nash will win.

Shocky was right about Kennedy. 28? Really? He wasn't even on my list. No way he should be ranked higher than some of the other names out there. Like Gagne.

I can't wait to watch the debate unfold on Gagne v. Cena. It'll be enough to get someone banned. I'm sure of it. Both sides have their fanatical fans, but I think Cena will win. Based mostly on people voting, but not posting anything, or reading anything.

Cena still loses to Goldberg, but Nash should get the "upset" over Benoit. In a Goldberg v. Nash final, I'll go with Goldberg, and then he's set to make a tear. He'd face Hogan next, and then a potential showdown with Sting or Undertaker.

The winner of WCW, should win the whole thing.

 

[Hacksaw Highway]

I'd have to say Cena goes over Goldberg. Yes, Goldberg was built up as maybe the most dominant wrestler of all time, but Cena thrives on beating people bigger and stronger than him. Big Show, Khali, Umaga, etc. Cena gets the job done with the odds stacked against him, and voters need to factor that in.

 

[ANGLE FAN]

=Hacksaw Highway;886200]I'd have to say Cena goes over Goldberg.

I disagree on this point.

Yes, Goldberg was built up as maybe the most dominant wrestler of all time,

Certainly he was . His dominance was reflected not only in his WIN/LOSS ratio but also VERY EVIDENT inside the squared circle. He beat up people really bad, and never looked vulnerable to a beating himself. Neither did he give the opposition ANY chance to put him away by using their finishers.

but Cena thrives on beating people bigger and stronger than him.

Not always. He got beat by BATISTA and BROCK LESNAR.
GOLDBERG has beaten BROCK LESNAR clean at wrestlemania.

Big Show, Khali, Umaga, etc. Cena gets the job done with the odds stacked against him, and voters need to factor that in.

BIG SHOW has been beaten by UNDERTAKER, BROCK LESNAR, HHH, ANGLE, BENOIT and many others.
KHALI has been beaten by UNDERTAKER , HHH, BATISTA, FINLAY atc.
UMAGA has been beaten by HHH, JEFF HARDY, BATISTA, BOBBY LASHLEY, BATISTA etc.

All these 3 men were booked as monsters who were unbeatable in their early run. But after a loss at a high stakes match up, they all lost their momentum and started loosing to QUALITY OPPONENTS putting them over. So its not only that they loose EXCLUSIVELY to CENA. These guys loose to others as well on a consistent basis. These guys suffer more losses in one year on an average than GOLDBERG suffered in his entire career (more than half of which were not clean)

Out of these three, GOLDBERG has never faced KHALI and UMAGA. You can NOT hold this against GOLDBERG that CENA holds wins over them.
GOLDBERG defeated BIG SHOW (THE GIANT IN WCW) in a remarkably dominant fashion. JOHN CENA on the other hand went over against these opponents with a lot of effort in long drawn battles.



DONT GET TOO CARRIED AWAY WITH YOUR LOVE AND ADMIRATION FOR JOHN CENA AND HIS HARDWORK.
The tournament is about who wins a match in a paticular arena in a particular promotion under particular stipulations [/I] maintaining keyfabe[/I]


VOTE GOLDBERG.........

 

[Shadowmancer]

God damned Mike Awesome, this will be tough for people to go against because of what I will call DWS. Dead Wrestler Sympathy. Hopefully the fact that he has only had good matches against Masato Tanaka helps Steve Corino win this one since Corino has had great matches against Terry Funk and Dusty Rhodes. As well as being hand picked by Mr. Wrestling II to take up the mantle of Mr. Wrestling 3.

 

[CENAtion]

How can andybody say Goldberg is better than Cena? Are you freaking kidding me? People say ohh Cena has the 5 moves of doom. Well if thats true then Goldberg has the 2 moves of doom. People continue to talk about how Goldberg was unstoppable during his streak. Let me ask all of you this, how many jobber's did he beat? John Cena is no jobber. John Cena can easily match strength with Goldberg. From a technical standpoint, give me a break, Goldberg makes Cena look like Kurt Angle. Cena loves a challenge and a fight, Goldberg for the most part only knows squash matches against jobbers. Look at HHH, Goldberg could never figure him out it seemed, Cena has beaten him on the biggest stage of them all. Goldberg was a no talent hack. You can say ohh well what about the spear and jackhammer. Well Superman aka John Cena has kicked out of more in his career. Cena has always been a guy who refuses to stay down because of his heart. John Cena has that ability that only a guy like Hulk Hogan had and thats the Superman factor. And before anyone starts with the Goldberg beat Hogan bs, Hogan was not in his prime, John Cena can only be measured in his prime as he is in it right now. If no one could take the title off of Cena in over a year and that list included HHH, Edge, and HBK, all guys far superior to Goldberg, then how could some no talent dawg beat John Cena.

And as for the WCW advantage bs, give me a break its the same as WWE rules minus the entrance, you cant seriously tell me you give Goldberg the advantage because of an entrance way. The real advantage is where this sub region is taking place, making John Cena the favorite.