WWE Region, Manchester Subregion, Second Round: (8) AJ Styles vs. (9) Batista

[LSN80]

Batista would win this. I know all you AJ lovers don't agree which is fair but when it comes to popularity AJ Styles isn't in the s.ame league as Batista

With regards to their respective companies, AJ is more popular then Batista. TNA is often referred to as the "House that AJ built", and for good reason. Until Hulk Hogan arrived, AJ was in his prime, and was the undeniable face of the company.

But it's not a popularity contest, which is important to remember. It's who would beat the other kayfabe wise.

The guy was arguably the #1 face in 2005 and that was when the Cena era just started. He often main evented over Cena and only lost the title because of an injury, there's no telling how long Batista would have stayed on top if he didn't get injured.

That was only on Raw, and against HHH. Shortly after he beat HHH three straight times, impressively, he was moved to Smackdown and no longer main evented over Cena. His time at the top was short-lived, and it wasn't because of his injury. It was because Cena passed him. After his injury, Batista was always the guy chasing the title, rather then winning it. Whether that was John Cena getting red hot or Batista simply not being able to reach back to his level of popularity, or his inability to have consistently good matches.

I like AJ more but I've always liked Batista. He's got a good look, natural charisma and he is so hard hitting and powerful it makes his limited moveset look much more impressive.

The issue I have is whether Batista would be able to keep up with AJ. If he could ground him, he would certainly have a chance, but even against big men, he wasn't often grounded. People have mentioned Hernandez, Rob Terry, and Apollo, but he's beaten Abyss and Kevin Nash several times as well, an even bigger, harder hitting guys then Batista with limited movesets as well.

I'm not so much arguing if AJ can take Batista because he can but if I had to put one over the other I would take Batista. Not so much because of his size and power but because he has taken down some of the biggest names in WWE over the last 10 years and was a pretty good hand while they had him.

But his record against those men he beat at some time was terrible. His wins against some of the biggest names, save HHH, generally came after several losses. This is one and done, which Batista was generally unsuccessful at. AJ, as the face of TNA, was main eventing and beating the biggest and best the first time around. Batista's win-loss record against Rey Mysterio, John Cena, Edge, Chris Jericho, Booker T and Undertaker was poor, and his wins over them were often tainted or non-title.

Whatever you consider his prime, outside of 2005 when he beat HHH and JBL, he was generally a placeholder and transitional champion. His heel turn? Sure, he won the WWE title by beating down John Cena after an Elimination Chamber match, but he lost three straight to Cena after. His only other truly "high profile" win during that time was against Rey Mysterio at Survivor Series, but Rey got the win back, and then another one in a #1 contender's match.

AJ would be just too much for Batista. His limited moveset would be his downfall, as AJ is the opposite, as he has a plethora of moves he can hit you with. As to whether he could get Batista up for the Styles Clash? Ask Samoa Joe about that, who is only 10lbs lighter then him.

Batista beats those with a lot in their arsenal. Only decisive losses Batista has are against Cena and Undertaker. AJ Styles is neither Cena nor Undertaker.

But he was the face of the company until 2010, with many decisive wins over the likes of Kurt Angle, Sting, Booker T, and Kevin Nash for example. Batista has decisive losses to Edge, Rey Mysterio, Shawn Michaels(remember Backlash 2008?. He also had the steel cage loss to Chris Jercho for the World Heavyweight Championship on Raw 900 after an incredible 8 day title reign.

Batista was often outsmarted by smaller opponents, leading to his losses. It cost him against HBK at Backlash, Jericho in the Steel Cage, and Booker T while chasing him for half a year. AJ, during his 200+ day title reign, turned heel, and not only won with his incredible arsenal, but by outsmarting and cheating his opponents. What in Batista's track record says AJ wouldn't be able to do the same to him?

How much drawing power has AJ Styles had since 2005?

Quite a bit I'd say since in 2009-2010 he became TNA's longest reigning champion at 200 plus days.

I've always found AJ to be one of those "niche" draws.

"Niche" draws don't win their company's most prestigious title four times, including becoming their longest tenured champion in 2010 after 8 years with the promotion. Sure, he was surpassed by Bobby Roode in 2012, but it's a testament to his staying power nonetheless. That doesn't exactly strike me as a "niche" draw, that strikes me as a face of the company.

This isn't a knock on Batista. His first title run was a long, fairly dominant one, but he never sustainted that momemtum after returning from injury. "Placeholder champion" is the best way to describe him. Styles is the only wrestler in TNA to have won every male championship the company has. Since his first World Title win in 2003 to the end of his fourth in 2010, Styles was the man in TNA.

The only guy you could say has been a bigger long-term draw in TNA has been Kurt Angle, who Styles has had plenty of success against himself, defeating him several times for the World Title, and for Kurt's gold medal as well.

That's not a niche draw. That's being the man. This match goes to AJ.

 

[Con T.]

AJ Styles has had a company centered around him.

I can sincerely say I never felt the same way about Batista. He had a chance to, getting the big shove against Triple H at Wrestlemania. But along the way, John Cena eclipsed him, and taken away from the security of Triple H, he began to flounder with injuries and mediocre feuds.

Last round, I saw some conjecture about who saved TNA...
Was it Jeff Jarrett, some say Sting. The honest answer is probably Bob Carter and his checkbook, but if any ring performer "saved" TNA, it's AJ Styles. He set the standard for what making TNA a legitimate alternative to WWE. I've seen him put on some of the greatest matches of all time.

Batista? I can honestly say unless he's being spoon fed by a better worker, he can't have a good match. I can honestly think of HHH, Cena, and Undertaker. That's it, that's the list. I've seen enough abominations with Mark Henry and King Booker to know he just isn't that good, and is essentially the 21st century Sid.

Give me AJ

 

[Danger Burger]

There's no way in hell Aj Styles goes over Batista. No way! Is Aj a better wrestler than Batista? Yes, but that's the only area in which he has the edge.

The only area AJ is better is in wrestling? What are we debating again? AJ is a better wrestler, even the oposition agrees. Case closed. Vote AJ.

Face of his wrestling company, hell of a performer. Both long term. Both things Batista cant claim.

 

[Brewski]

You know, going into this it's really easy to think Batista would kick AJ's ass but once you break it down I think it goes the other way pretty quickly. It's been noted already that while Dave is a monster, he's not that dominant against smaller, quicker guys. If rey could beat him with pure quickness than AJ's larger size makes it even more believable. Next thing I want to look at is championships. Before even being in TNA AJ styles is easily one of the most accomplished indy wrestlers of all time. Batista was just a body builder before coming into OVW. In the early days of TNA AJ was the freaking man, 3 time NWA heavyweight champion. Then when they went big import star crazy he was still able to pull down a good run as TNA heavyweight champ. When you look at Batista's 4 WHC, and 2 WWE title numbers it sounds like it dwarfs AJ's belts but consider that WWE has two top titles with WHC clearly being the lesser, I think that really lowers Dave's Prestige. What the real breaker for AJ is the wild card; 6 X-division titles. Sure, now thats clearly TNA's B title, but realize when AJ was winning all these belts the X-division pretty much was the whole draw of TNA. It's sure as hell why I started watching. At the time the X title was just as important as the NWA/TNA heavyweight belts for the company.

Aj wins based on accomplishments and wrestling ability in a real fun match.

 

[Mr Mikey Mike]

The only area AJ is better is in wrestling? What are we debating again? AJ is a better wrestler, even the oposition agrees. Case closed. Vote AJ.

Face of his wrestling company, hell of a performer. Both long term. Both things Batista cant claim.

Yes and Rey Mysterio is a better "wrestler" than Hulk Hogan and we all know Mysterio wouldn't go over Hulk Hogan in this tournament, so by that logic your point is flawed. I'm judging by titles, charisma, drawing power, opponents beaten, and who I'd take in a real fight. Charisma - Aj Styles is very mediocre on the mic, while Batista's heel work at the end of his WWE tenure was pure genius. Charisma goes to Batista. Drawing power - Let's see Aj works for Tna a company who's flagship television show does half the ratings of WWE's B show Smackdown. Where are the massive ppv buyrates for the ppv's that Aj Styles main events? Oh that's right there aren't any. Mean while all Wrestlemania 21 did was become
the highest grossing non boxing ppv at the time, surpassing one million buys, and oh yeah, that Batista guy was in the main event. Saying Aj is a bigger draw than Batista is nothing short of stupid. Outside the wrestling community no one knows who Aj is, not the
same case with Batista. I'm done arguing this is a total no contest, but go ahead Tna fans tell me Aj is a bigger star than Batista, tell me the list of names Aj beat are more impressive than the list of names Batista beat because beating Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Sting, and Christopher Daniels is more impressive than beating Triple H, John Cena, Undertaker, and Shawn Michaels. Oh but wait Aj's the face of Tna and we can't say the
same about Batista because apparently to tna fans being the face of tna means your
bigger than the number 2 guy in Wwe. By that logic Aj is a bigger star than Undertaker and Triple H, that's completely fucking stupid logic. Being the face of Tna is nothing close to being a top guy in WWE. If you're smart you'll vote Batista and I'm not even a Batista fan, but the notion that Aj is a bigger star than Batista is ludicrous. Spine Buster, Batista Bomb and we have a winner. One last thing, look at how Tna's ratings looked during their Monday tenure in which Aj Styles was the world heavyweight champion, numbers show people tuned out for Aj and oh yeah, Aj hasn't been the face of Tna since Jeff Hardy has arrived.

 

[HBsam31]

AJ has beaten big men. Batista really has an average record against smaller guys. Batista was hard to beat when he first won the title and was going over HHH all the time, but really he cooled off after that. AJ has been the center of TNA for a long time. I have to vote AJ here.

 

[Alex]

AJ has beaten bigger guys like Abyss and Samoa Joe.

However he's been manhandaled by these guys and wins by the skin of his teeth. I guess it would all depend on how Batista acts out the gate, because if he goes straight to trying ro beat AJ to a pulp AJ's unlikely to win, however if Batista tries the slow route AJ could pull an upset. AJ's speed is all he's got going for him this round so if he can tire Batista out he can probably win because I think I'm right in saying when Batista runs low on gas he generally can't mount as good an offence.

I'm still on the fence but leaning toward AJ

 

[Tastycles]

Bully Ray, Rob Terry, Hernandez, Apolo. Yes indeed, AJ has faced big men. And guess who's won each time. AJ. Well, except for that one time where Ray kicked AJ's head into the entrance ramp, but you get the point.

Batista on the other hand even has losses to Rey Mysterio.

Rey Mysterio is a multiple time world champion, Rob Terry is a fucking joke, there is no way you can compare that.


Batista would win. He is more popular than AJ, has beaten more big names than AJ, held more prestigious titles than AJ and that's before you look at the obvious physical advantages.

Batista beat John Cena clean. John Cena. Clean. People who have done that include The Rock. I think that's it. Oh, he also beat The Undertaker clean. The Undertaker. Clean. People who have done that include...errr....Ultimate Warrior?

Batista is wrongly chastised for being an oaf, but I guarantee that if AJ wrestles until he's 100, he won't ever have faced a crowd as large and invested in him as Cena vs Batista at WrestleMania. I can't see any argument for AJ that'll hold water here.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

The only area AJ is better is in wrestling? What are we debating again? AJ is a better wrestler, even the oposition agrees. Case closed. Vote AJ.

Face of his wrestling company, hell of a performer. Both long term. Both things Batista cant claim.

If he is the face of a wrestling company, then why did it take him five years in between World Titles? They damn near had everybody else win the title but him. Abyss, Samoa Joe, Sting, Jarrett, Raven, Rhyno, Booker T, Mick Foley, etc. Styles was made to look like a buffoon for about a two-year stretch. Even Christian who didn't mean a damn thing after he and Edge split up was picked to be the top guy over Styles. Batista was the #2 guy for a five-year period. Once the big names started coming to TNA, Styles was pushed to the side.

 

[LSN80]

Batista would win. He is more popular than AJ. has beaten more big names than AJ, held more prestigious titles than AJ.

How much of this is due to the company he's in, due to the exposure he's received as result? Within the context of primes, noone in TNA was more popular then AJ, or more successful. And although Batista has more World Titles(6) then AJ(4), he's had only one title reign(his first) that wasn't simply a placeholder run until someone else(Edge, Undertaker, John Cena) could be put over for a more definitive run. AJ's runs have been, especially his last one, to establish him more and more as the face of the company.

Batista beat John Cena clean. John Cena. Clean. People who have done that include The Rock. I think that's it.

Kurt Angle(2005Raw)CM Punk(2011 Money In the Bank), Randy Orton(2009 Hell In a Cell), Shawn Michaels(2007 Raw) and HHH(2008 Night of Champions, 2009 Raw) all have done so as well.

Oh, he also beat The Undertaker clean. The Undertaker. Clean. People who have done that include...errr....Ultimate Warrior?

Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan Big Show, Steve Austin(multiple times), and Jeff Hardy have all done so as well. Oh, and so did the Great Khali....The Great Khali.

I'm not diminishing Batista's accomplishments, he's joined a short, accomplished list that have beaten two of the greatest wrestlers of all time, clean. But AJ has done the same with everyone TNA has thrown his way, including defeating Kurt Angle(multiple times), Sting, Samoa Joe, Kevin Nash, and Booker T. Within the context of TNA, those are the biggest names, and AJ has beaten all of them clean. Further, in whatever division Styles has competed in, and he's flip-flopped between X, Tag, and World, he's become the star of the division and soon after the champion. His 18 titles, easily the most in TNA history, attest to that.

Batista is wrongly chastised for being an oaf.

Yes and no. When he was breaking away from Evolution, he was portrayed as intelligent and tough. But it was that oafishness and being outsmarted that cost him in feuds against stars like Shawn Michaels, Edge, Chris Jericho, and Rey Mysterio. No further example is necessary then the championship Scramble match, where he was the champion with 30 seconds left, and instead of trying to protect the championship, he went for another, unneccessary pinfall against Mysterio, allowing Jericho to sneak in and pin Kane.

but I guarantee that if AJ wrestles until he's 100, he won't ever have faced a crowd as large and invested in him as Cena vs Batista at WrestleMania

.

You mean a match that Batista lost clean, tapping out in? I think you're using the wrong argument here, as large and invested don't mean as much if you lose.

I can't see any argument for AJ that'll hold water here.

A longer run as face of the company for AJ, Batista's struggle against smaller, quicker wrestlers, and his limited moveset all suggest that AJ would go over. A poor track record in big matches against big names also suggests that, as AJ had a great track record in his prime.

If Batista couldn't put away AJ quickly with power, or was baited, he would lose. It's happened to him against HBK, Edge, Chris Jericho, and Mr. Kennedy. The best comparison of someone Batista has faced has been Rey Mysterio, and while he has that Survivor Series win over Rey, he had losses on Smackdown before that match, and a steel cage and #1Contender's match against Rey. AJ is just as quick and stronger then Rey, so he'ld likely have the same success.

There's an argument to be made here. AJ wins.

Batista was the #2 guy for a five-year period. Once the big names started coming to TNA, Styles was pushed to the side.

He was? After he vacated his title in 2006, he never regained that #2 status, even as the #2 face. Undertaker, Edge(heel), Randy Orton(heel), Jeff Hardy, CM Punk and HHH when he turned face all surpassed him. Where were the PPV main events that each of those men had during that five year stretch for Batista, which Im assuming you mean is 2005-2010? Other then against HHH in 2005, and Undertaker in 2008, there simply weren't any, and the Undertaker matches were simply used to bring back Edge and transition the title from him to Edge, so Edge could face the Undertaker. The same Wrestlemania where Edge was main-eventing against the Undertaker, which Batista couldn't do the year before, what was he doing? He was wrestling a crappy "Battle of the Brands" match against Umaga, and couldn't even win the US Title from freakin MVP prior. Does that sound like #2 status to you?

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

AJ Styles has been part of some of the greatest matches in TNA history. His classics with Kurt Angle, Sting, his classic Ultimate X matches and his matches with Samoa Joe and Christopher Daniels (which were mostly 5 star matches) were some of the best matches in TNA or Pro-Wrestling as a whole. AJ Styles was voted "Mr. TNA" in 2003, 2004 and 2005 by the fans of Total Nonstop Action Wrestling. He is also the first TNA Triple Crown winner, and one of the only 3 Grand Slam Champions in TNA history.

Vote AJ Styles because he is a better wrestler. Who cares how many "kayfabe" titles they have won anyway?

 

[The Crock]

I was on the fence about this one -- and I'm not surprised it's close -- but I'm voting for Batista. Batista's peak is unmatched by most in this tournament, much less AJ Styles. AJ Styles WAS TNA -- he carried the company for years -- but his stardom still pales in comparison to Batista. Batista was a top face and carried the WWE into a new era, winning matches against the likes of Undertaker, John Cena, and Triple H. I know he's not very well liked around here, but he was a bonafide star -- AJ Styles is nothing but a big fish in a small pond.

I like AJ Styles a lot -- he's one of the main reasons I've watched TNA for as long as I have -- but I can't justify voting for AJ Styles over Batista. Batista was a top draw in a far larger company and has proven himself against bigger, better stars. Batista gets a bad shake around here, but if he returned tomorrow, he'd instantly be back at the top of the card. He was the type of star that doesn't just sprout of the ground -- Batista had staying power.

I'll vote Batista because I can't justify a vote for AJ (who I like a lot).

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

How much of this is due to the company he's in, due to the exposure he's received as result? Within the context of primes, noone in TNA was more popular then AJ, or more successful. And although Batista has more World Titles(6) then AJ(4), he's had only one title reign(his first) that wasn't simply a placeholder run until someone else(Edge, Undertaker, John Cena) could be put over for a more definitive run. AJ's runs have been, especially his last one, to establish him more and more as the face of the company.




Kurt Angle(2005Raw)CM Punk(2011 Money In the Bank), Randy Orton(2009 Hell In a Cell), Shawn Michaels(2007 Raw) and HHH(2008 Night of Champions, 2009 Raw) all have done so as well.



Kurt Angle, Hulk Hogan Big Show, Steve Austin(multiple times), and Jeff Hardy have all done so as well. Oh, and so did the Great Khali....The Great Khali.

I'm not diminishing Batista's accomplishments, he's joined a short, accomplished list that have beaten two of the greatest wrestlers of all time, clean. But AJ has done the same with everyone TNA has thrown his way, including defeating Kurt Angle(multiple times), Sting, Samoa Joe, Kevin Nash, and Booker T. Within the context of TNA, those are the biggest names, and AJ has beaten all of them clean. Further, in whatever division Styles has competed in, and he's flip-flopped between X, Tag, and World, he's become the star of the division and soon after the champion. His 18 titles, easily the most in TNA history, attest to that.



Yes and no. When he was breaking away from Evolution, he was portrayed as intelligent and tough. But it was that oafishness and being outsmarted that cost him in feuds against stars like Shawn Michaels, Edge, Chris Jericho, and Rey Mysterio. No further example is necessary then the championship Scramble match, where he was the champion with 30 seconds left, and instead of trying to protect the championship, he went for another, unneccessary pinfall against Mysterio, allowing Jericho to sneak in and pin Kane.

.

You mean a match that Batista lost clean, tapping out in? I think you're using the wrong argument here, as large and invested don't mean as much if you lose.



A longer run as face of the company for AJ, Batista's struggle against smaller, quicker wrestlers, and his limited moveset all suggest that AJ would go over. A poor track record in big matches against big names also suggests that, as AJ had a great track record in his prime.

If Batista couldn't put away AJ quickly with power, or was baited, he would lose. It's happened to him against HBK, Edge, Chris Jericho, and Mr. Kennedy. The best comparison of someone Batista has faced has been Rey Mysterio, and while he has that Survivor Series win over Rey, he had losses on Smackdown before that match, and a steel cage and #1Contender's match against Rey. AJ is just as quick and stronger then Rey, so he'ld likely have the same success.

There's an argument to be made here. AJ wins.



He was? After he vacated his title in 2006, he never regained that #2 status, even as the #2 face. Undertaker, Edge(heel), Randy Orton(heel), Jeff Hardy, CM Punk and HHH when he turned face all surpassed him. Where were the PPV main events that each of those men had during that five year stretch for Batista, which Im assuming you mean is 2005-2010? Other then against HHH in 2005, and Undertaker in 2008, there simply weren't any, and the Undertaker matches were simply used to bring back Edge and transition the title from him to Edge, so Edge could face the Undertaker. The same Wrestlemania where Edge was main-eventing against the Undertaker, which Batista couldn't do the year before, what was he doing? He was wrestling a crappy "Battle of the Brands" match against Umaga, and couldn't even win the US Title from freakin MVP prior. Does that sound like #2 status to you?

AJ Styles wrestled at a Bound For Glory for the tag team titles in which one of the opponents was a football player. I'll take a "crappy Battle of the Brands" match over that.

 

[deem]

Man people really are getting swept away with Styles "carrying TNA". Let me clarify - I AGREE he is their MVP, he defines their product, he's been loyal, he is their most talented star (other than Angle imo), he is their best home grown star and has a solid kayfabe resume.

If you are trying to vote fairly, if you are trying to consider who the bigger star is, or who would win within kayfabe, there is NO CHANCE you can vote AJ. It's just impossible. I'm not dismissing your arguments, I've read them and there are some good points made. Most notably Dave's win/loss on PPV, that surprised me. I'm gonna take a look at that myself while trying to define his prime, starting from his main event push. I won't include tag team matches as that's irrelevant.

Royal Rumble 2005 - Won the Royal Rumble.
Wrestlemania 21 - Beat Triple H for the world title in the main event.
Backlash 2005 - Retained world title over Triple H
Vengeance 2005 - Retained world title over Triple H inside Hell in a Cell
Great American Bash 2005 - Lost via disqualification to JBL for World Title (Jordan tried to hit him with a chair, he grabbed and hit him back. Wouldn't be so careless here as couldn't lose title via DQ)
Summerslam 2005 - Retained world title over JBL
No Mercy 2005 - Retained world title against Eddie Guerrero
Taboo Tuesday 2005 - Beat Coachman

At this stage he was injured and forced to drop title. Not a bad first reign though?

Second potential prime;

Summerslam 2007 - Beat The Great Khali by DQ for the world title.
Unforgiven 2007 - Wins the world title in a triple threat vs The Great Khali and Mysterio
No Mercy 2007 - Retains world title vs Great Khali inside Punjabi Prison.
Cyber Sunday 2007 - Retains world title clean over The Undertaker
Survivor Series 2007 - Retains world title title over The Undertaker inside Hell in a Cell after Edge returns to cost Undertaker the match
Armageddon 2007 - Drops world title to Edge in a triple threat with The Undertaker

That's fairly solid too? I'm not skipping horrible streaks here or anything, just trying to determine a prime. Other singles matches i've glossed over are beating Cena clean at Summerslam, beating Orton clean at Armageddon, winning the WWE title vs Orton, beating Umaga Wrestlemania, trading victories with Shawn Michaels, losing by DQ to Mr Kennedy, retaining World title vs Mr Kennedy, beating Jericho for world title, losing twice to Edge for World Title, and a few i've forgotten.

So while "less than 50% wins" is pretty damning, it's also hilariously misguided considering that almost every loss is multi-man, tagteam or via DQ while retaining titles.

Another thing that made me re-think my Batista pick is that he had held the WWE title for less time than Jeff Hardy. That's pretty huge since it's undoubtedly the #1 title in the company. I mean, the World Title is more prestigious than TNA title ainec, but did he even hold that for that long?

Yeah. He reallyyyy did. Longest reigning world champion since it's return in 2002. I did a bit more research though as another thing jumped out to me - Dave was injured. Like a LOT. Three lengthy injuries at least since his main event push.

That made me consider how long he had held a world title since he won his first one, up to leaving the company.

Days between first world title and retirement - 1877.
Days injured between first world title and retirement - 393 days.
Days active in WWE competition between first world title and retirement - 1484.
Days holding either the World Championship or the WWE Championship - 544.

That's a fairly decent stat. Over a third of the time he was a main eventer in WWE, he was holding a world title. 36.6% of the time. Four world titles and two WWE titles for 36.6% of five years. That's absolute dominance, way too much for AJ here. WAY too much.

Look, I hate Dave and I love AJ. This is bs though when voting in kayfabe. Batista must win. I agree with region advantage for AJ, I agree he has beaten men of similar size (I disagree with Batista's bad record against smaller opponents strongly but this post is long enough). If you aren't voting kayfabe and voting logic, consider how much more over peak Batista is worldwide. Seriously, apply some logic rather than voting with your hearts.

 

[wrestlingfan]

If he is the face of a wrestling company, then why did it take him five years in between World Titles? They damn near had everybody else win the title but him. Abyss, Samoa Joe, Sting, Jarrett, Raven, Rhyno, Booker T, Mick Foley, etc. Styles was made to look like a buffoon for about a two-year stretch. Even Christian who didn't mean a damn thing after he and Edge split up was picked to be the top guy over Styles. Batista was the #2 guy for a five-year period. Once the big names started coming to TNA, Styles was pushed to the side.

Batista is a bigger star, that is fact, but yes he was actually face. When Styles finally became the true face of the company after 8 years, many would say it was Sting & Angle who were the true franchise players.

 

[JJYanks121]

This matchup is amusing.

By amusing I mean not close and the arguments for the man who shouldn't be in it are hilarious. The funniest part is that the same people making the arguments for Allen Jones are the people who will tell you that Jeff Hardy is the real draw which is why the "face of TNA" hasn't been anywhere near the main event in a long time. They'll explain to you how ratings went way down when Styles was champion and this justifies putting the ex-WWE guys on top but now that a TNA guy is taking on a proven draw from the WWE, suddently AJ is this huge draw and the ultimate best from TNA.

Look, AJ Styles is talented. He's a innovative and fun wrestler and I enjoy watching him. However, Batista is one of the few megastars this industry has had over the past decade. Dude was a straight up draw and probably still would be if he stuck around. Styles simply isn't that. He's a guy you throw out there for a good match but not a guy you count on to draw. Batista is a guy you count on to draw.

This might be the least close matchup of the round despite being close in rankings. All that means is that Styles was severely overrated going in but we can rectify that by bouncing him now. With that said, I'll enjoy the TNA fans continuing to lie about AJ being a draw. Only when it suits you in this tournament boys, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[The Brain]

I think some of you need to check the facts before you start overselling Batista's greatness. Pop quiz who has held the WWE title longer Batista or Jeff Hardy? Answer Jeff Hardy. Batista has had the only not second rate title in the company for 37 days total over 2 reigns. That is far from dominant.

What about Batista's regin as world champion in 2005? Let me guess, you're going to say it doesn't matter because it was the secondary title. That may be true now but not in 2005. Back then the titles were equal.

According to the Internet wrestling database Batista won less than 60% of his matches. On PPV the number is less than 50%. Yep, that is right, on PPV your "dominant" "top guy" was more likely to not win than to win. AJ has a better winning percentage on PPV than Batista does.

Interesting. Let's take a closer look.

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/batista-357.html

http://www.profightdb.com/winlossrecord/a-j-styles-752.html

Looks like Batista won just over 60% of his matches. You must have meant just WWE. In that case you're right. He won 59% of his matches. What about AJ? He has won 52% of his TNA matches and 53% total. Not so favorable to AJ now. Normally I wouldn't bring up such specific numbers like this but since you brought it up I felt it necessary to point out you weren't telling the full story.

AJ Styles is an all-around talent, an innovator, a good person and has brought more to the business. AJ Styles helped build a company from the ground up as the face of the X division style. Batista coasted on the B show thanks to his workout buddy while the ratings trended downwards. There was nothing unique or innovative about anything Batista did. He brought very little to the business and took a lot. He brazenly took women that were dating other wrestlers and then treated them poorly. When her friend complained he got her fired.

Well I guess AJ would beat Batista in a nice guy contest. I don't think he would beat Batista in a wrestling match.

AJ has done some great things for TNA. That's obvious. As far as being an innovator, I'm not so sure. He seems to do a lot of things guys his size do. Unnecessary flips and wasted motion to execute a move. I'm not taking away from his ability but the term innovator is overused and not neccessarily a good thing. Just because someone does something new doesn't mean it's good.

Just look at the two guys next to each other and tell me who should win a pro wrestling match. Batista has the size, strength and ability to beat AJ. People just label him as a big meathead because they like technical wrestlers better than power wrestlers. There are different styles in pro wrestling and Batista was very good at his style. By the way, his style is more often than not the more successful style.

 

[El Rev sXe]

Fuck, this is hard. I remember a couple of years ago, when I was starting to love wrestling I didn't knew much about other american wrestling companies. As far TNA was concerned, I knew one thing and one thing only, they had an amazing talent named AJ Styles. And I am from a country where people doesn't know shit about wrestling outside a couple of latin legends and WWE.

On the other hand Batista, well my dad (who fucking knows 5 names in the american business) knew who the fuck was Batista. It may be worthless for you, but for me, that my dad knows who is a wrestler shows its popularity.

That being said I only have one thing to say, yes Batista did beat Cena and Taker, two of the biggest names in wrestling history, but did AJ lose to them? Absolutely not, the man hasn't even had a shot against them, we can only compare against other big names in the biz such as Kurt Angle and Sting; men who AJ has defeat on numerous ocassions. Finally, AJ has been Flair's protegé on TNA. Yeah it wasn't a big thing but kayfabe wise, it is a big accomplishment, an accolade that shares with Batista.

It is a very hard vote, but I think I'll go with AJ here.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

The arguments I've read here are saying that because Batista was in the WWE and AJ was in TNA, that means AJ would lose to Batista... which is just not a fair judgement.

AJ Styles could be up there with Jericho and Punk as one of the best wrestlers in the world. His innovative style in the ring and his ability to out think his opponents would give him a great advantage against Batista, who has a one track mind and would try to use power and brute force to win.

I know Batista's beaten greats in the WWE and he had a good run as champion, but his drawing power wasn't there and he wasn't a good hand in the ring. He put Cena out of action with a broken neck... and has had quite a few botches with his limited in-ring abilities.

Styles can beat Batista... don't let the TNA stigma skew your thought process.

This pretty much says everything I wanted to say myself. AJ Styles is that talented and well rounded that he could beat anyone, Batista included.

Obviously Dave has a considerable size and strength advantage, but Styles is good enough, quick enough and has enough tools in his locker to chop down the bigger man and then put him away with some kind of crazy aerial offense.

Winner: AJ Styles

 

[Jack-Hammer]

If you look at in-ring ability, Styles is all over Batista. Batista was someone who was more about straight up power and a fantastic look & physical presence.

When it comes to personality, neither guy has ever truly shined in my eyes. Batista never seemed comfortable on the mic and Styles, a lot of the time, was just plain awkward. I never found either one particularly charismatic either but I give Batista the edge as he had the better look and overall presence.

As much as it irks some people to bring star power into arguments when its inconvenient to the guy they're supporting, it's a relevant factor. Being a big star in WWE, at this point in time, does mean more as the WWE is the top company. In WWE, Batista has helped sell more merchandise, ppvs and generate more money than Styles ever has or has ever dreamed of in TNA.

I haven't read over any of other posts in this thread yet but I've little doubt this match will be among the most hotly debated of the second round. There are arguments on both ends.

I hate Batista, always have quite frankly. Aside from a great physique and being carried by more talented wrestlers, I never saw anything special about the guy. I've liked watching AJ Styles in the ring since I first saw him, but he's a big fish in a little pond and that works against him when you bring in factors like star power and drawing ability into things.

I'd personally love to see Styles go on, but I don't think he will. Batista was a major star in the much bigger company, so that's going to carry a lot of weight for people. My heart is with Styles but my head tells me to vote Batista, so I'm not sure what I'm doing yet.

 

[shattered dreams]

Let me guess, you're going to say it doesn't matter because it was the secondary title. That may be true now but not in 2005. Back then the titles were equal.

No they were not.

I have already highlighted how pathetic his WWE title runs were. You bring up his only title reign to ever last for more than 4 months. My god, what dominance!

During this crowning achievement the ratings once he went to Smackdown with the title were 2.74 on average until he got hurt and drew no payoff money for that reign. The year before for the same time the ratings were 3.17. What a draw! During this same time period the ratings on Raw were 3.78 compared to 3.59 the previous year. It wasn't Batista you fools.

Looks like Batista won just over 60% of his matches. You must have meant just WWE.

Yes, I didn't count all the time he had to spend in OVW honing his craft for years to be ready for that memorable run as a lackey to the Sergeant at Arms of Aces and Eights. Is that really what you want to hang your hat on? Being good at not getting promoted to the big leagues?

In that case you're right. He won 59% of his matches. What about AJ? He has won 52% of his TNA matches and 53% total. Not so favorable to AJ now. Normally I wouldn't bring up such specific numbers like this but since you brought it up I felt it necessary to point out you weren't telling the full story.

So Batista won at a slightly higher percentage not on PPV and he won at a slightly lower percentage on PPV. Who has more victories though? According to the sources you provided AJ Styles has 90 more wins than Batista (even including OVW for laughs). AJ has won more matches by pinfall than Batista has. 15% of Batista's victories came by DQ. AJ isn't getting DQ'ed.

Well I guess AJ would beat Batista in a nice guy contest. I don't think he would beat Batista in a wrestling match.

Good thing we don't pay you to think. Giving back to the sport is an important part of being great.

AJ has done some great things for TNA. That's obvious. As far as being an innovator, I'm not so sure. He seems to do a lot of things guys his size do. Unnecessary flips and wasted motion to execute a move. I'm not taking away from his ability but the term innovator is overused and not neccessarily a good thing. Just because someone does something new doesn't mean it's good.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much? Anyway, to answer your last question if you are saying he has exemplary ability then yes it is most likely doing something new is good. If you legit don't think the first X-division champ has ever done anything innovative then I have to assume you never took the time to watch some of his great matches back in the day.

Just look at the two guys next to each other and tell me who should win a pro wrestling match.

Do this for Andre vs Hogan and tell me how that works out.

Batista has the size, strength and ability to beat AJ. People just label him as a big meathead because they like technical wrestlers better than power wrestlers. There are different styles in pro wrestling and Batista was very good at his style. By the way, his style is more often than not the more successful style.

What style did the champ for record setting recent WWE title run work? Batista is a meathead. Bad attitude, steroids, inability to work any styles other than the one he was alright at. AJ can work any style, he can work with anyone and he is the one with wrestling ability. You WWE supremacists sicken me. Real men take their white hoods off on the way to kick some ass.

 

[The Brain]

No they were not.

I could have sworn it was the world title match that was the main event of WrestleMania 21 which saw Batista beat Triple H.

I have already highlighted how pathetic his WWE title runs were. You bring up his only title reign to ever last for more than 4 months. My god, what dominance!

As opposed to AJ's dominance as a world champion? Oh wait, that never happened. His reigns were shorter than Batista's best reign.

During this crowning achievement the ratings once he went to Smackdown with the title were 2.74 on average until he got hurt and drew no payoff money for that reign. The year before for the same time the ratings were 3.17. What a draw! During this same time period the ratings on Raw were 3.78 compared to 3.59 the previous year. It wasn't Batista you fools.

What kind of ratings was AJ pulling in for TNA at the time?

Yes, I didn't count all the time he had to spend in OVW honing his craft for years to be ready for that memorable run as a lackey to the Sergeant at Arms of Aces and Eights. Is that really what you want to hang your hat on? Being good at not getting promoted to the big leagues?

You don't see the humor in your comments do you? AJ hasn't made the big leagues. I love how your criticisms of Batista can be said about AJ too and you don't even realize it.

So Batista won at a slightly higher percentage not on PPV and he won at a slightly lower percentage on PPV. Who has more victories though? According to the sources you provided AJ Styles has 90 more wins than Batista (even including OVW for laughs). AJ has won more matches by pinfall than Batista has. 15% of Batista's victories came by DQ. AJ isn't getting DQ'ed.

AJ's had more matches. Since the totals aren't equal percentage is the accurate way to compare. But I'm not the one that brought that into the discussion in the first place.

Good thing we don't pay you to think. Giving back to the sport is an important part of being great.

Only when you're desperately grasping at straws to get your boy to the next round.

Talk out of both sides of your mouth much? Anyway, to answer your last question if you are saying he has exemplary ability then yes it is most likely doing something new is good. If you legit don't think the first X-division champ has ever done anything innovative then I have to assume you never took the time to watch some of his great matches back in the day.

I haven't seen a lot of his matches. From what I've seen I don't see him getting by Batista.

What style did the champ for record setting recent WWE title run work?

The style that always took a backseat to the power style of John Cena unless he was working with Cena.

Batista is a meathead. Bad attitude, steroids, inability to work any styles other than the one he was alright at. AJ can work any style, he can work with anyone and he is the one with wrestling ability.

So you're more about finesse than results. You think it's more impressive to run across the ring, jump on the rope, and do a backflip than just take someone's head off with a basic clothesline. That's cool. I don't see AJ beating Batista that way.

AJ's a swell guy and Batista's a dick. That's not going to get AJ a win.

You WWE supremacists sicken me. Real men take their white hoods off on the way to kick some ass.

Says TNA's biggest cheerleader. Well if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Jaffa]

AJ Styles is the best TNA grown talent ever in my opinion. He can basically work most styles other than power of course due to his style but other than that he can basically do it all. AJ Styles is a 2 TNA Television Champion 6 time X Division Champion and 3 time NWA champion. He is also the first ever TNA triple crown and grand slam winner and has completed the grand slam twice. What an amazing career AJ Styles has had an absolute legend and an all time great pro wrestler and by all accounts a great person.

On the other hand there is Batista THE ANIMAL. 2 time WWE champion and 4 time World Heavyweight Champion. Other than The Rock this man is the only guy to have beaten Cena cleanly in the last 5 years, he has had great feuds with Triple H, Undertaker and HBK. He also won his first title in the mainevent of Wrestlemania 21 which he held for 282 days which is longer than Styles longest TNA title reign of 211 days.

Styles would of been the type of guy Batista squashed in a 3 minute RAW match in 2003. Batista wins this one by a long way.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I already mentioned this in a post earlier, but AJ Styles was once offered a WWE developmental contract in 2001 but declined it, so the talk of being a big fish in a smaller pond doesn't really hold water (chortle). AJ had the opportunity to go to the WWE, and what's more they wanted him. He chose TNA.

 

[JJYanks121]

I already mentioned this in a post earlier, but AJ Styles was once offered a WWE developmental contract in 2001 but declined it, so the talk of being a big fish in a smaller pond doesn't really hold water (chortle). AJ had the opportunity to go to the WWE, and what's more they wanted him. He chose TNA.

TNA didn't exist in 2001. It started a year later as nothing more than an independent promotion loosely claiming a tie to the NWA and having weekly Pay Per Views. Styles didn't choose a thing. He chose not to go to WWF developmental but not because he had a better option at the time.

The thing is, we'll never know what Styles would have been in the WWE, but keep in mind that had he gone to developmental then, he would have been there with Randy Orton, John Cena, Shelton Benjamin, Brock Lesnar, and Dave Batista. If you're going to argue with me that somehow AJ Styles would have been the breakout star of the group, you're just wrong. Maybe he saw those guys and realized he didn't stand a chance. I don't know.

What I do know is that Batista was there and was not originally thought of as the breakout star but in the end, the dude became the second biggest star of that star studded group (yes, bigger than Orton and Lesnar). He's a much bigger star than AJ Styles and he'd beat him in a match.