7th Annual WrestleZone Tournament Bracket Unveiling LD

[The Dragon Saga]

Different Kenta, the one your referring to is stylized as KENTA.

 

[Alex]

Guess I have to do some more research

 

[Nate DaMac]

Who would actually vote for Owen over Jeff? If your just picking favorites, then sure, by all means. Owen is nowhere near as significant to wrestling as Hardy was/is, though, so I don't get Haiku doing it.

 

[Con T.]

Who would actually vote for Owen over Jeff? If your just picking favorites, then sure, by all means. Owen is nowhere near as significant to wrestling as Hardy was/is, though, so I don't get Haiku doing it.

I could easily argue Jeff's "significance" in wrestling is one that actually hurt wrestling (and wrestlers) more so than he did good.

Look at the trio of teams that took part in those ladder matches; of them, Edge is retired with injuries, Christian probably isn't too far behind, Matt's beyond fucked, Jeff has his own personal demons. It seems the only people that got out of those significant ladder matches normal are the Dudleys, best known as the team that didn't take stupid bumps.

There's a lesson in that. Oh, and the average age of the Hardyz and E&C?

37 3/4 years old

 

[Nate DaMac]

I could easily argue Jeff's "significance" in wrestling is one that actually hurt wrestling (and wrestlers) more so than he did good.

Look at the trio of teams that took part in those ladder matches; of them, Edge is retired with injuries, Christian probably isn't too far behind, Matt's beyond fucked, Jeff has his own personal demons. It seems the only people that got out of those significant ladder matches normal are the Dudleys, best known as the team that didn't take stupid bumps.

There's a lesson in that. Oh, and the average age of the Hardyz and E&C?

37 3/4 years old

So Owen over Jeff because Jeff took a lot of stupid bumps? Owen took the stupidest bump of all time.

 

[Con T.]

Lulz. Owen death jokes in 2013.

Come now, I thought you could have at least given me a better lame Owen death joke. Something about how Owen got higher than Jeff... Before he crashed.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Not really that much of a joke. You're arguing that Jeff did more bad than good because he took a lot of ******ed bumps and thus developed a drug problem. Tell me, how many people do you think actually know about Jeff's drug issues? Now how many people know about Owen being the only WWE Superstar to die in the ring? Which do you think was more damaging to the WWE's reputation?

You and I seem to view/judge wrestling in the same way. Using our criteria, Jeff is clearly a better professional wrestler than Owen was. You just seem to have a personal problem with Jeff and would rather not be objective about this match up.

Also, my joke was much better than yours.

 

[Con T.]

So you're comparing an accident that happened to a guy who makes personal choices?

Ok. Just, ok.

Also, I'm pretty sure every time Jeff violated the wellness policy, something came out.

I really do wonder by what measurement we're saying Jeff's better. As a draw? He was always the Smackdown champion... As a matter of fact, I remember him chasing the main title, once in 2008. He was never exactly a top draw, and even on Smackdown, he was over, but I wouldn't call him a top draw, exactly. Owen was at least chasing the main title during his prime

 

[Alex]

I'm going to say this.

If you're going to go on about personal choices, fair enough. Are you going to do the same thing when Scott Hall and Jake Roberts come up because last I checked they'd only just got back on track (and that's thanks to DDP)

Jeff was pretty much in the top three whichever brand he was on. He chased the WWE title for part of 2007 and most of 2008 (and then won it) he also won the World title as well in 2009 and had arguably one of his best fueds ever against CM Punk.

Owen never won the WWF/E title at all. Yeah you're going to argue it was harder back then. But the fact that Hardy won both top titles shows that they thought he could do it considering he was up against Triple H, Edge, Randy Orton, Undertaker, Batista, John Cena and at the time they weren't really building anyone up (Punk at a stretch)

 

[Con T.]

Do you plan on all of your tournament posts to look like Wikipedia snippets?

I probably will judge Hall & Roberts on their personal choices; Hall especially, because he often did things that Hardy did; no show events, let his in ring work get sloppy, etc. Hardy, though, is the only one to go on pay per view, for a major promotion, in the main event, and show up in no condition to perform.

Also, Jeff Hardy was pretty much a mid card guy in 2007; he got the shove to face Orton, but mainly as a one off, before shock and awe, he failed a wellness policy test. He'd win the belt, but how much do you want to bet WWE was never going to let him have a prolonged stay with the belt?

Calling him top three is laughable; he had a Smackdown run when it was him, and CM Punk. In WWE land, Jeff Hardy was never bigger than Cena, Orton, HBK, Triple H, Batista, hell, Undertaker in part time business did better than he did as champion.

 

[Con T.]

You know, this was all quite tl;dr for my taste, so let me put it in a way that people will get;

Would you put JBL over Owen in this tournament?

If you wouldn't, the when why you put Jeff Hardy over?

 

[Alex]

Well yeah I'd put JBL over Owen Hart. Because like, Jeff Hardy as a performer he's more relevant in the grand scheme of things. JBL was the dominant performer on Smackdown for a few years and helped cement John Cena as a main eventer. Jeff Hardy helped revolutionize the ladder match and helped get CM Punk over as a performer. Both won the WWE title (something Owen Hart never did)

In all honesty Owen Hart is remembered for three things.

1. Being Bret's brother
2. Breaking Steve Austin's neck
3 Tragically dying

If you like his work good for you, but in the grand scheme of things Owen Hart never really did anything.

That's why I'm going to vote Jeff Hardy over Owen Hart.

 

[Con T.]

In the grand scheme of things, Jeff took a lot of drugs, didn't draw a dime, and paved the way for hundreds of superstars (himself included) to cripple themselves with stupid bumps.

Yeah, I'll take Owen's resume

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

I'll vote for Hardy over Owen. Pretty easy choice for me.

 

[Coco]

I've spent dimes on Jeff Hardy. Quarters even.

 

[Nate DaMac]

So you're comparing an accident that happened to a guy who makes personal choices?

Ok. Just, ok.

He chose to make a stupid grand entrance.

Also, I'm pretty sure every time Jeff violated the wellness policy, something came out.

Yeah, on the internet. You never see him in major news publications or on TV news. Owen's death was front page stuff.

I realize that I'm comparing a death to drug addiction. I'm only addressing the fact that you say Jeff has done more harm than good to the business. Owen is far more known for his death than anything he did in the ring.

I really do wonder by what measurement we're saying Jeff's better. As a draw? He was always the Smackdown champion... As a matter of fact, I remember him chasing the main title, once in 2008. He was never exactly a top draw, and even on Smackdown, he was over, but I wouldn't call him a top draw, exactly. Owen was at least chasing the main title during his prime.

He may have never been a "top" draw by your standards, but at least he as a draw, something Owen never really was.

 

[TLC]

In the grand scheme of things, Jeff took a lot of drugs, didn't draw a dime, and paved the way for hundreds of superstars (himself included) to cripple themselves with stupid bumps.

Yeah, I'll take Owen's resume

I spent £15 on Armageddon 2008 for him.

 

[Coco]

I spent £15 on Armageddon 2008 for him.

I bought his My Life, My Rules DVD and ordered the 2008 Royal Rumble on account of him.

That's at least 550 dimes Jeff Hardy drew.

He may have never been a "top" draw by your standards, but at least he as a draw, something Owen never really was.

I dunno. I hear Owen's death was a real ratings draw on CNN.

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Using the "draw" argument in this tournament is a cop-out, plain and simple.

 

[Con T.]

Using the "draw" argument in this tournament is a cop-out, plain and simple.

Before this gets turned to Hardy-Hart already....

Ummmm, no, it isn't?

Besides, we get to argue any way we want to; if I want to argue on drawing, fuck, I'll do it

 

[Coco]

Using the "draw" argument in this tournament is a cop-out, plain and simple.

Fine. What other standard would you prefer I use to demonstrate Hardy's superiority over Hart?

 

[Bernkastel]

Using the "draw" argument in this tournament is a cop-out, plain and simple.

As opposed to just voting for your favorites? IMO, that's a cop out.

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Ummmm, no, it isn't?

Besides, we get to argue any way we want to; if I want to argue on drawing, fuck, I'll do it

I find draw arguments rather dull, nothing more than a feather in a cap for a wrestler who will likely advance (unless they're from the old school, then things get a little interesting until they lose to a modern fan favorite.) But I'm sure you'll make a very compelling one.

Fine. What other standard would you prefer I use to demonstrate Hardy's superiority over Hart?

Anything will suffice. I don't have the wit to tenderize the horse meat with anything better than "who makes a better crash test dummy".

 

[Nate DaMac]

So judging wrestlers by the sole piece of criteria that determines whether or not they're good at their job is a cop-out?

 

[Remy LaCroix]

So judging wrestlers by the sole piece of criteria that determines whether or not they're good at their job is a cop-out?

For the tournament? Yes, I firmly believe it's a cop-out. I'm focusing solely on what could happen in the ring, none of that behind-the-scene type of stuff.

Clearly I have a very different idea in mind on how the tournament should play out.